Did ATT refuse to carry the G1?

Question

Going off a rumor I saw in the comments section of the review David Pogue of the NYT did of the G1 ( http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/a-first-look-at-googles-new-phone/ ), and elsewhere, it's been said that Google approached ATT with the G1 and ATT flat turned them down. The reason given was that they could expect no revenue stream from application sales and such with the licensing and distribution structure Google has designed Android under. I'd like to know more concretely if this is just a rumor or if it is true.

If it's true, I'm furious. There is absolutely nothing out there that is in the least way comparable to the G1. I've mailed customer support and gotten polite responses to the effect of, 'we acknowledge your displeasure and will take it under advisement, and be of good cheer, we will soon be offering the HTC Tilt'.   What?   If that's not the brush-off and an insult to my intelligence and my years of loyalty as a customer, than I don't know what is. The Tilt, while also made by HTC is a completely incomparable device when considering the G1. Further, the point is not JUST the device features, but the operating system and support of the Open Handset Alliance.

T-Mobile’s G3 coverage is, quite frankly, a joke.   T-Mobile has at the time of that article, 19 cities with some G3 Coverage. ATT.... 280. They are both adding more all the time, but even were T-Mobile to have a huge capital influx and add them at twice the rate of ATT, you'd probably be eligible for ANOTHER handset upgrade before TM started to catch up with ATT.

I'm up for handset upgrade in 5 days and since I've been limping along on a goPhone since lovingly bathing my Blackjack in the Maytag, I'm really biting my nails on what to do or what to think. An iPhone is a weak substitute... Yes, the iPhones are something-y (an attractive description that the board won't let me use... Think.... Marilyn Monroe) and really incredible, but until they can address some deal-killer points they just don't fly with me. (I bought one for my wife.. .she loves it... it's a great handset... It's just not what I want)

1. open the operating system and allow universal app development
2. quit blocking apps like those people used for a short while to tether their laptops before Apple blocked it.
3. quit using proprietary USB hardware/ports/cabling.
4. allow user swappable battery.
5. add memory expansion slot
6. keyboard keyboard keyboard
7. native ability to be mounted like a hard drive on any machine without iTunes being installed.
8. *stupid capacity limits... there are 32gb Micro SD cards available now... why does Apple only offer 16 and that for an outrageous price? (yes I know.... December)... but even then, they still won't have a user accessible swappable memory slot so I can keep a wallet of memory cards and access them with my camera, my other music devices, other cell phones, etc.

*as a point, Google and HTC had better shape up quick... if they think offering a 1gb base model with an attractive sticker price and then charging $50 to go to measly 8gb max internal, then they don't know their market.

The standard GPS + Compass + Streetview standard is great...   I think for other HTC offerings from ATT the GPS is an add-on. I haven't explored my wife's iPhone enough to know what it's GPS capabilities are (ignorance on my part).

I love the fact that you can program your own 'slide' sequence to unlock the phone rather than just anyone being able to drag their finger across and unlock an iPhone. You can make it nastily complicated with many iterations and really be securing your data hard.

I do hope that ATT hears customer outcry and negotiates a G1 offering with Google/HTC. I like the iPhone a lot but I don't want an iPhone... I want an open source phone that was designed with my every desire in mind.

I'd very much like to separate rumor from fact... Perhaps I am miffed with ATT for no reason. Perhaps the G1 is just out of site over the horizon and if I'm just patient and use my goPhone *shudder* a little longer, my patience will be rewarded.

TheBigLebowski · Accepted Answer

My comments inline in red...@Thistledowne wrote:Going off a rumor I saw in the comments section of the review David Pogue of the NYT did of the G1 ( http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/a-first-look-at-googles-new-phone/ ), and elsewhere, it's been said that Google approached ATT with the G1 and ATT flat turned them down.  The reason given was that they could expect no revenue stream from application sales and such with the licensing and distribution structure Google has designed Android under.  I'd like to know more concretely if this is just a rumor or if it is true.If it's true, I'm furious.  There is absolutely nothing out there that is in the least way comparable to the G1.  I've mailed customer support and gotten polite responses to the effect of, 'we acknowledge your displeasure and will take it under advisement, and be of good cheer, we will soon be offering the HTC Tilt'.   What?   If that's not the brush-off and an insult to my intelligence and my years of loyalty as a customer, than I don't know what is. Good luck trying to find this out.  And I wouldn't count on anyone who knows anything chiming in here.  This is a customer-based forum.  AT&T executives don't talk about their internal business deliberations here.T-Mobile’s G3 coverage is, quite frankly, a joke.   T-Mobile has at the time of that article, 19 cities with some G3 Coverage.  ATT.... 280.  They are both adding more all the time, but even were T-Mobile to have a huge capital influx and add them at twice the rate of ATT, you'd probably be eligible for ANOTHER handset upgrade before TM started to catch up with ATT.I'm up for handset upgrade in 5 days and since I've been limping along on a goPhone since lovingly bathing my Blackjack in the Maytag, I'm really biting my nails on what to do or what to think.  An iPhone is a weak substitute... Yes, the iPhones are something-y (an attractive description that the board won't let me use... Think.... Marilyn Monroe)  and really incredible, but until they can address some deal-killer points they just don't fly with me.  (I bought one for my wife.. .she loves it... it's a great handset... It's just not what I want)It's 3G, not G3.  And yes, T-Mobile is way behind the curve in their UMTS deployment.  Worst part about it is that T-Mobile uses a different UMTS frequency for 3G (1700 MHz), so T-Mobile 3G phones won't work on AT&T unless they also have 850/1900 MHz UMTS radios.1. open the operating system and allow universal app development

FredW · Answer

I was told that there would be an Android phone from HTC by year's end. But then, at&t is notorious about salespeople giving bad information.

I doubt that at&t would let something like not being able to sell apps keep them from getting a phone. The iphone doesn't let them sell apps either. I have several purchased apps on my Q, not a one purchased from at&t. I don't think it is that big a revenue stream, compared to the actual phone service and especially data service. And an Android phone really begs for data service. More likely, they are holding off until a manufacturer they deal with comes out with an Android phone. They may also want to see how it works in the real world (or as real world as t-mobile gets) before they have to support it.

Thistledowne · Answer

Thank you for a nice considered reply. My bad with the G3/3G      too much history with a rev1 233 and many of its successors, and since Apple was likewise being discussed.... yes yes, I know.. .all excuses.   Walled garden.. I like that. very apropos.    Since you confirm what I've heard rumored about the frequency notches not being compatible between providers regardless of what protocol is being used, it makes me all the more baffled at the hot trade currently underway on eBay for 'unlocked' G1s with no contract. It was my understanding that you could not buy a G1 w/o signing a 2 year T-Mobile contract (I think there are some states where you can violate that w/o penalty but I'm seeing auctions from sellers located all over the place). It was also my understanding that the phone could not be unlocked for the first 90 days after purchase. Add to the fact an utter lack of network coverage if those phones are indeed limited to T-Mobile's bandwidth notch, and I'm wondering why trade is so brisk over there.   Are people being less than honest about what they're selling?   Are buyers being fools and not reading the fine print?

As to 32gb SD cards... my bad.   I mixed my mental tenses and was thinking of an article I'd read about them very likely being available in the not too distant future and at a reasonable pricing structure.   I realize I'm comparing apples (no pun intended) to oranges here, but I simply meant to imply that Apple could satisfy a huge portion of their users by making a slide off back with an accessible battery (yes.. walled garden with machine gun emplacements) and could conceivably make the whole thing 1mm thicker and let the user array several micro SD form factor cards.

As to the customizable 'slide lock' security, I only know what I've seen in a video Google put on YouTube. It was pretty cool, but it was visual and not all that techy. I assume that if it didn't already let you customize precisely what you wanted protected behind that barrier it could in very short order. That's the beauty of this phone. It doesn't come with a video recorder for the onboard camera... it seems silly, but not when you realize that the thing is completely open with a published API and people clambering to start writing to the platform. I expect to see programming contest flyers in the halls of the Engineering buildings at school any day now.

As to the USB interface... Apple never needed to develop their own proprietary ports for what is essentially a USB 2.0 pipe for charging, external control, or data transfer. I believe (my 'rumor mill' may have failed me here) the G1 uses a standard type Mini-B USB connector that most of us have two or three sitting in our drawers at home and work because every device under the sun uses the interface now.

I don't like the G1's lack of a headphone jack but I understand why it couldn't fit along with the keyboard and everything else and still have a footprint that's even remotely close to the iPhone. I'm certain people are going to be losing the little 1/8" "Sony" TRS stereo headphone jack => Mini-B USB dongle required to use the device as an mp3 player. As there won't be any licensing royalties on something like this, you'll probably find them being sold for a couple of bucks at RatShack in very short order.

More on the Slide Lock question...I've always despised ActiveSync, and Palm Desktop so I'm rather hopeful that the 'openness' of the platform extends to letting the market decide in terms of popularity which of any number of competing synchronization utilities people like best.   I'm not certain, but if Google has just written the operating system and distributed the API, they may be hoping that developers jump at the opportunity to write software to just make use of the methods provided in the API. Or, likewise they may have provided a very rudimentary, lightweight, not-fully-featured sync utility with the same goals in mind.   As even that utility would be open, people could start writing add-ons or forking it to a whole new utility.

I had already resigned myself to probably having to get an iPhone, but I hate to surrender w/o at least one final desperate drowning shout-gulp...   The nice thing about it however is that it won't be too painful a pill to swallow (Sorry, I'm terrible for mixing metaphors). The iPhone will be a prison of sorts, but it will be very posh with Martha Stewart preparing the meals... very nice, but I'd still like the freedom to order out Chinese or get a burger when the mood strikes me. One can get tired of choice prime rib and vegetables in Hollandaise sauce.... What???!!!??   Steak and Lobster AGAIN!?!?!

Thanks TBL. Guess I'll mark you as solution as it's probably the closest I'll get to having my grumpiness assuaged. I hope discussion will continue however.   I hope the execs do have peons trolling these waters and reporting back species, numbers, and general health and any other data that might serve to persuade them to cater to their customer base.

Cheers!

PS... I think I forgot to mention... Cut and Paste!

Message Edited by Thistledowne on 10-20-2008 08:42:56 PM

Message Edited by Thistledowne on 10-20-2008 08:45:15 PM

TheBigLebowski · Answer

It's a common misconception to transpose 3G as G3. Remember, the 3G is short for Third Generation cellular technology!

As far as a secondary market for the 3G, there are probably many reasons why there's a brisk business selling unlocked phones. Some people just want the G1 because it's hot and new, and they either don't care or don't realize that it'll be an EDGE phone on AT&T or any other American GSM carrier.

The 32GB microSD cards will probably be available by sometime early next year. If you're interested in seeing what the flash memory in an iPhone looks like, there are many breakdowns of the device available on the Web.

And yes, your rumor mill failed you. HTC uses a proprietary interface called ExtUSB. Some standard mini-B USB connectors will work with the HTC phones for charging/syncing, but the headsets are pinned differently. That's why you can't use a Motorola mini-B USB headset with an HTC phone, even though it'll fit. It's frustrating because I purchased a nice Shure headset, and couldn't use it because the mini-USB adapters aren't generally pinned to support microphone functions. And trust me, I've already tried the Radio Shack route. Very few of them carry 3.5mm - mini-USB connectors, esp. the funky HTC ones. I owned 4 HTC phones before jumping ship to the iPhone. With the Touch HD (which America apparently won't be getting), HTC has brought back the 3.5mm headphone jack, so who knows what'll happen with future phones.

And the iPhone is a fantastic device. The interface is second to none, and I don't feel limited by the device at all. If the phone doesn't do what I want to do then I can probably find something in the App Store to do what I need. Turn-by-turn GPS routing is something I'd like to see, but I hear that a solution will be coming to the App Store before the end of the year. If you're a DIY'er, why don't you try downloading the iPhone developer toolkit? I know Apple's terms are a little more restrictive than Google's, but I'm certain you could find a niche in which to express your creative instincts. I've also read that some developers who are working on iPhone apps have so far resisted jumping ship to develop for Android because of the nightmare of having to optimize your code to support every discrete configuration of Android phone due to be released.

Discussion is healthy and encouraged, but realize that the only consistent source of information on here will be other users. The only AT&T or Lithium employees are the admins and moderators, and they're here to ensure that we play nice in the sandbox. And keep the faith for cut & paste!

Thistledowne · Answer

I just realized something. My contract is up with ATT. I don't want to leave them but when I can buy a 8gb Android-G1 for $249 + $80 for a 32gb MicroSD, I get what I want including a spare swappable battery w/o having to wait for an 32gb iPhone and subscribe to a company that doesn't offer insurance on this most costly little device.

I don't know T-Mobile, and from what I hear I'm not gonna be thrilled by them, but then I wasn't thrilled with ATT in a lot of ways too. The coverage was a problem in my head but not in reality... when I checked my whole state is saturated with EDGE except the most rural places I never go, and a few 3g spots and I think the major cities I care about are slated to be 3g fairly soon.

You've lost my money ATT.

Thistledowne · Answer

I think I've found that I could switch back to ATT if I wanted to after my contract is up... probably won't want to, but I think it does answer the question on what frequency notches are supported and if the phone can function on the two incompatible frequency/protocol networks:

GSM 850/900/1800/1900 (Quadband) / UMTS 1700/2100 (Dual Band)

From http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/htc-dream-t-mobile/4507-6452_7-33283585.html?tag=mncol;psum

Pretty good review: Lots more information on that page.

You are correct it seems that the USB is HTC proprietary.

TheBigLebowski · Answer

Yes, you could. T-Mobile will unlock the phones after 90 days. Your phone will function normally on AT&T's 2G network (GSM/GPRS/EDGE), but you won't receive any 3G coverage.

And yes, the ExtUSB is proprietary. Found that out the hard way.

In response to your other post, I don't believe 32GB microSD cards are out yet. The 16GB was just released within the last month or so. Be very careful with some of these online vendors, as they get sloppy with their descriptions.

@Thistledowne wrote:
I think I've found that I could switch back to ATT if I wanted to after my contract is up... probably won't want to, but I think it does answer the question on what frequency notches are supported and if the phone can function on the two incompatible frequency/protocol networks:

GSM 850/900/1800/1900 (Quadband) / UMTS 1700/2100 (Dual Band)

From http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/htc-dream-t-mobile/4507-6452_7-33283585.html?tag=mncol;psum

Pretty good review: Lots more information on that page.

You are correct it seems that the USB is HTC proprietary.

Thistledowne · Answer

I've since found out that what people had been calling non-user-accesible memory of 1gb standard that could be upgraded at the factory to 8gb for $50 was nothing but so much as a message in a game of telephone operator. The kernel of the reality is evidenced in it but the message is completely garbled and nonsensical.

The phone has 196mb of ram, 128m of which is for program-space and the rest reserved for the operating system and whatnot to be loaded into.

There is no internal 1gb storage, but rather the phone ships with a 1gb MicroSD card installed in the slot which opens for user access.

For and estimated $50 bucks they would send you (duh.. a vendor in Korea would too. Heck, my best friend might sell it to me if I wanted it and he only paid $40 for it) an additional 8gb card which you could use in place of the 1gb card it came with.

And finally.

The phone cannot accept anything larger than an 8gb card so 16 and 32gb cards would be of no use and great expense.

Demetri70 · Answer

My younger brother is with T-Mobile and will be getting one (G1) and I can't wait to play with it!  Hopefully there will be many more phones working off this OS and  will offer us all more options..If it proves to perform well I'm sure AT&T will jump on the 'Android train' shortly 🙂

Thistledowne · Answer

Well well well. It's to be disappointment then.

I called ATT before going to T-Mobile to confirm that the other two lines on my account wouldn't suffer some surprise charges or rate changes, or anything of that sort that happens when you least expect it and found out that though I was eligible for an equipment replacement on Oct 25th, my contract actually ran until May of 2009. I might consider getting an iPhone but never an 8gb which would seem to me to be a foolish waste of money as they are not currently upgradeable, and even if they were it would probably be cost prohibitive. At the moment, I could swing the > $179 for a G1, and with some pain the $200 for an 8gb iPhone and of course be sucked in to a lot of the suggested/recommended extra expenditures they don't tell you about up-front.   But not $300 for a 16gb iPhone that I really would prefer to be a G1.

Of course, patience would net a 32gb iPhone. But it would necessitate the re-leasing of my soul to ATT. Oh the difficult decisions.

Guess I'm to stick to my $20 go phone for a little longer and yearn for the days when my phone becomes actually a useful tool in my day to day life.

Any updated word on the 32gb release?

Any idea what the cost is to break contract with ATT?

*sigh*.   I dropped my expensive and irritating cable internet at home expecting to at least be able to check email and look things up in Wikipedia during those long dismal hours away from work (hack gag cough) Alas.

I miss my Blackjack... I'm still upset about that. The label didn't give washing instructions that advised against mixing with colors on warm. Perhaps I was supposed to stick to Woollite... or a cotton swab with isopropyl alcohol.   Just think if I'd put it with whites and added bleach. As it was, my MicroSD card wasn't erased, but I bet that would have done it. Of course the data would have probably bled and ruined my formal shirts and crisp white hankies. I guess I dodged a bullet there.

Message Edited by Thistledowne on 10-29-2008 08:15:23 AM

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