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Posted May 24, 2010
5:07:10 PM
How can I get credit for undelivered SMS messages?

I've been having trouble - undelivered text messages - on and off all year.

 

I use Google Voice, so I have logs that show that messages I never received were sent.

 

Google Voice shows R sent me messages at 6:44 PM and 8:15 PM, and C did at 7:02 PM, all on Sunday.  I got earlier and later messages, but not these.

 

Is there a way to get credit other than calling in?  Tech folks are unable to troubleshoot. They don't have access to logs, so they simply suggest I swap my SIM and/or phone, hoping that 'll fix it or make me go away.

I've been having trouble - undelivered text messages - on and off all year.

 

I use Google Voice, so I have logs that show that messages I never received were sent.

 

Google Voice shows R sent me messages at 6:44 PM and 8:15 PM, and C did at 7:02 PM, all on Sunday.  I got earlier and later messages, but not these.

 

Is there a way to get credit other than calling in?  Tech folks are unable to troubleshoot. They don't have access to logs, so they simply suggest I swap my SIM and/or phone, hoping that 'll fix it or make me go away.

How can I get credit for undelivered SMS messages?

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May 24, 2010 5:35:32 PM
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You cannot get credit for messages that were never received by you as they were never charged to you.  Your only charged for messages that were delivered to you.

 

For messages you sent, were charged for the sent message,but it was never delivered to the recipient, the only way to work a refund is by calling.

You cannot get credit for messages that were never received by you as they were never charged to you.  Your only charged for messages that were delivered to you.

 

For messages you sent, were charged for the sent message,but it was never delivered to the recipient, the only way to work a refund is by calling.

Re: How can I get credit for undelivered SMS messages?

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May 24, 2010 8:58:32 PM
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Edited by AboutToGoPostal on May 24, 2010 at 8:59:31 PM

Not true.  I am charged and pay a monthly fee for SMS service.  If I'm not getting that service, I think it's bloody plain that I should not be billed for it.

SMS is a reliable service; as designed, it provides guaranteed message delivery.

I'll call this week and see what response I get.


Planet-Ed wrote:

You cannot get credit for messages that were never received by you as they were never charged to you.  Your only charged for messages that were delivered to you.

 

For messages you sent, were charged for the sent message,but it was never delivered to the recipient, the only way to work a refund is by calling.


 

 

Not true.  I am charged and pay a monthly fee for SMS service.  If I'm not getting that service, I think it's bloody plain that I should not be billed for it.

SMS is a reliable service; as designed, it provides guaranteed message delivery.

I'll call this week and see what response I get.


Planet-Ed wrote:

You cannot get credit for messages that were never received by you as they were never charged to you.  Your only charged for messages that were delivered to you.

 

For messages you sent, were charged for the sent message,but it was never delivered to the recipient, the only way to work a refund is by calling.


 

 

Re: How can I get credit for undelivered SMS messages?

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May 24, 2010 10:19:36 PM
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Nothing is guaranteed.

Nothing is guaranteed.

Re: How can I get credit for undelivered SMS messages?

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May 24, 2010 10:24:29 PM
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Master

How about actually wording your questions correctly and maybe you'll get a better answer that your looking for.

 

You made no mention of having a data plan and talked about individual messages implying that your being charged the per message rate which I pointed out you would not be charged for non-delivered messages.  So nothing to refund.

 

Also if your on a numbered plan like 200 messages a month and the message that state you did not receive was not taken out of that 200 allotment then there is nothing to credit.  If you were at 200 messages and didn't receive a message, are you wanting ATT to credit you one message so you have 201 total???  It doesn't work like that.

 

So your not actually wanting a message credit your wanting a monetary compensation for poor service.  You did not receive a message so your wanting ATT to refund money for the message that was not received.  OK.  How much does a non delivered message entitle you to?  Technically nothing.  If the 200 messaging plan is $5 month then you would figure each message is $.025 .. So your wanting ATT to refund you $0.025 per each non-delivered message.  If so, for each one they "refund" they should also remove that message from your allotment since technically they gave you your money back for that message.  Or are you thinking they should refund you a pro-rated day of the cost of messaging for days where there are delivery issues even though some were working but not all?

 

I have no idea where your getting the "SMS is a reliable service; as designed, it provides guaranteed message delivery."  SMS is somewhat reliable and there are many places for issues especially with the Message Service Centers and even more so with carrier interoperability.  And its by no means a guaranteed message delivery.  There is no guarantee.  Even the plan terms state otherwise.

 

 


 

II. ADDITIONAL TERMS FOR SPECIFIC WIRELESS DATA SERVICES

Text, Instant Messaging and Picture/Video Messaging: Messages are limited to 160 characters per message. Premium text and picture/video messages are charged at their stated rates. Standard rates apply to all incoming messages when in the U.S. Different, non-standard per message charges apply to international messages sent from the U.S. Text, Instant, Picture, and Video messages are charged when sent or received, whether read or unread, solicited or unsolicited. AT&T does not guarantee delivery of messages. Text, Instant, Picture, and Video messages, including downloaded content, not delivered within 7 days will be deleted. AT&T reserves the right to change this delivery period as needed without notification. You are charged for each part of messages that are delivered to you in multiple parts. Picture/Video Messaging, data plan, and Text Messaging may need to be provisioned on an account in order to use Picture/Video Messaging. Some elements of Picture/Video messages may not be accessible, viewable, or heard due to limitations on certain wireless phones, PCs, or -mail. AT&T reserves the right to change the Picture/Video message size limit at any time without notification. Picture/Video Messaging pricing is for domestic messages only. When a single message is sent to multiple recipients, the sender is charged for one message for each recipient and each recipient is charged for the message received. Text message notifications may be sent to non-Picture/Video Messaging subscribers if they subscribe to Text Messaging.



 

So while I believe and agree it would be nice someone at ATT gave you some sort of compensation there is no requirement that they do so.  

 

If your unhappy with the service and reliability of messaging, you're free to not use the service and not pay for it.

 

How about actually wording your questions correctly and maybe you'll get a better answer that your looking for.

 

You made no mention of having a data plan and talked about individual messages implying that your being charged the per message rate which I pointed out you would not be charged for non-delivered messages.  So nothing to refund.

 

Also if your on a numbered plan like 200 messages a month and the message that state you did not receive was not taken out of that 200 allotment then there is nothing to credit.  If you were at 200 messages and didn't receive a message, are you wanting ATT to credit you one message so you have 201 total???  It doesn't work like that.

 

So your not actually wanting a message credit your wanting a monetary compensation for poor service.  You did not receive a message so your wanting ATT to refund money for the message that was not received.  OK.  How much does a non delivered message entitle you to?  Technically nothing.  If the 200 messaging plan is $5 month then you would figure each message is $.025 .. So your wanting ATT to refund you $0.025 per each non-delivered message.  If so, for each one they "refund" they should also remove that message from your allotment since technically they gave you your money back for that message.  Or are you thinking they should refund you a pro-rated day of the cost of messaging for days where there are delivery issues even though some were working but not all?

 

I have no idea where your getting the "SMS is a reliable service; as designed, it provides guaranteed message delivery."  SMS is somewhat reliable and there are many places for issues especially with the Message Service Centers and even more so with carrier interoperability.  And its by no means a guaranteed message delivery.  There is no guarantee.  Even the plan terms state otherwise.

 

 


 

II. ADDITIONAL TERMS FOR SPECIFIC WIRELESS DATA SERVICES

Text, Instant Messaging and Picture/Video Messaging: Messages are limited to 160 characters per message. Premium text and picture/video messages are charged at their stated rates. Standard rates apply to all incoming messages when in the U.S. Different, non-standard per message charges apply to international messages sent from the U.S. Text, Instant, Picture, and Video messages are charged when sent or received, whether read or unread, solicited or unsolicited. AT&T does not guarantee delivery of messages. Text, Instant, Picture, and Video messages, including downloaded content, not delivered within 7 days will be deleted. AT&T reserves the right to change this delivery period as needed without notification. You are charged for each part of messages that are delivered to you in multiple parts. Picture/Video Messaging, data plan, and Text Messaging may need to be provisioned on an account in order to use Picture/Video Messaging. Some elements of Picture/Video messages may not be accessible, viewable, or heard due to limitations on certain wireless phones, PCs, or -mail. AT&T reserves the right to change the Picture/Video message size limit at any time without notification. Picture/Video Messaging pricing is for domestic messages only. When a single message is sent to multiple recipients, the sender is charged for one message for each recipient and each recipient is charged for the message received. Text message notifications may be sent to non-Picture/Video Messaging subscribers if they subscribe to Text Messaging.



 

So while I believe and agree it would be nice someone at ATT gave you some sort of compensation there is no requirement that they do so.  

 

If your unhappy with the service and reliability of messaging, you're free to not use the service and not pay for it.

 

Re: How can I get credit for undelivered SMS messages?

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May 25, 2010 11:44:41 AM
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I couldn't have said it any better Planet Ed Smiley Happy

 


I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s positions, strategies or opinions.

I couldn't have said it any better Planet Ed Smiley Happy

Re: How can I get credit for undelivered SMS messages?

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May 27, 2010 4:26:43 PM
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Edited by mod.moose on May 27, 2010 at 4:49:06 PM

I will bet BP isn't billing for the gas/crude oil it isn't delivering from the Deepwater Horizon.  

So why is  AT&T billing for the SMS service  it isn't delivering to their customers?

 

Customers should not be billed from when it's established the system isn't working as designed, until it is established that the system is working as designed. That's my stand.  

 

You ought not make a straw man arguments, as you did by assuming what text plan I do or don't have, and how many messages I send / receive.

 

You have no idea where I'm getting that "SMS is a reliable service; as designed, it provides guaranteed message delivery." {Please keep it courteous}.  I'm not referring to market-speak or legalese (Plan Terms), but to technical specifications.

 

"SMS makes use of a Short Message Service Center (SMSC), which acts as a store-and-forward system for relaying short messages. Similar to an MSC, the SMSC guarantees delivery of text messages by the network. Messages are stored in the network until the destination cell phone becomes available, so a user can receive or transmit an SMS message at any time, whether a voice call is in progress or not."

  -Source: http://developers.sun.com/mobility/midp/articles/sms/  (emphasis mine)

I will bet BP isn't billing for the gas/crude oil it isn't delivering from the Deepwater Horizon.  

So why is  AT&T billing for the SMS service  it isn't delivering to their customers?

 

Customers should not be billed from when it's established the system isn't working as designed, until it is established that the system is working as designed. That's my stand.  

 

You ought not make a straw man arguments, as you did by assuming what text plan I do or don't have, and how many messages I send / receive.

 

You have no idea where I'm getting that "SMS is a reliable service; as designed, it provides guaranteed message delivery." {Please keep it courteous}.  I'm not referring to market-speak or legalese (Plan Terms), but to technical specifications.

 

"SMS makes use of a Short Message Service Center (SMSC), which acts as a store-and-forward system for relaying short messages. Similar to an MSC, the SMSC guarantees delivery of text messages by the network. Messages are stored in the network until the destination cell phone becomes available, so a user can receive or transmit an SMS message at any time, whether a voice call is in progress or not."

  -Source: http://developers.sun.com/mobility/midp/articles/sms/  (emphasis mine)

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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May 28, 2010 8:22:20 AM
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Will, you need to read those terms of service next time, because you signed under:  AT&T does not guarantee delivery of messages. 

Will, you need to read those terms of service next time, because you signed under:  AT&T does not guarantee delivery of messages. 

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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May 28, 2010 8:25:35 AM
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AboutToGoPostal wrote:

I will bet BP isn't billing for the gas/crude oil it isn't delivering from the Deepwater Horizon.  

So why is  AT&T billing for the SMS service  it isn't delivering to their customers?

 

Customers should not be billed from when it's established the system isn't working as designed, until it is established that the system is working as designed. That's my stand.  

 

You ought not make a straw man arguments, as you did by assuming what text plan I do or don't have, and how many messages I send / receive.

 

You have no idea where I'm getting that "SMS is a reliable service; as designed, it provides guaranteed message delivery." {Please keep it courteous}.  I'm not referring to market-speak or legalese (Plan Terms), but to technical specifications.

 

"SMS makes use of a Short Message Service Center (SMSC), which acts as a store-and-forward system for relaying short messages. Similar to an MSC, the SMSC guarantees delivery of text messages by the network. Messages are stored in the network until the destination cell phone becomes available, so a user can receive or transmit an SMS message at any time, whether a voice call is in progress or not."

  -Source: http://developers.sun.com/mobility/midp/articles/sms/  (emphasis mine)


BP CAN'T bill customers for the CRUDE OIL (not gas) that it can't provide to them because it isn't available to them of course.

 


I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s positions, strategies or opinions.

AboutToGoPostal wrote:

I will bet BP isn't billing for the gas/crude oil it isn't delivering from the Deepwater Horizon.  

So why is  AT&T billing for the SMS service  it isn't delivering to their customers?

 

Customers should not be billed from when it's established the system isn't working as designed, until it is established that the system is working as designed. That's my stand.  

 

You ought not make a straw man arguments, as you did by assuming what text plan I do or don't have, and how many messages I send / receive.

 

You have no idea where I'm getting that "SMS is a reliable service; as designed, it provides guaranteed message delivery." {Please keep it courteous}.  I'm not referring to market-speak or legalese (Plan Terms), but to technical specifications.

 

"SMS makes use of a Short Message Service Center (SMSC), which acts as a store-and-forward system for relaying short messages. Similar to an MSC, the SMSC guarantees delivery of text messages by the network. Messages are stored in the network until the destination cell phone becomes available, so a user can receive or transmit an SMS message at any time, whether a voice call is in progress or not."

  -Source: http://developers.sun.com/mobility/midp/articles/sms/  (emphasis mine)


BP CAN'T bill customers for the CRUDE OIL (not gas) that it can't provide to them because it isn't available to them of course.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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May 28, 2010 9:22:44 AM
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Edited by spmfox on May 28, 2010 at 9:23:44 AM

AboutToGoPostal wrote:

 "SMS makes use of a Short Message Service Center (SMSC), which acts as a store-and-forward system for relaying short messages. Similar to an MSC, the SMSC guarantees delivery of text messages by the network. Messages are stored in the network until the destination cell phone becomes available, so a user can receive or transmit an SMS message at any time, whether a voice call is in progress or not."

  -Source: http://developers.sun.com/mobility/midp/articles/sms/  (emphasis mine)


Your citing a document on sun.com? That document doesn't even prove that ATT says they "guarantee delivery", the word isn't even used the same. And the document doesn't represent ATT. The word AT&T doesn't even appear once in the document.

 

You should sue Sun with a "class action law suit" for not guaranteeing your SMS delivery.

 


AboutToGoPostal wrote:

I will bet BP isn't billing for the gas/crude oil it isn't delivering from the Deepwater Horizon.  

So why is  AT&T billing for the SMS service  it isn't delivering to their customers?


Your example here doesn't make sense. According to you they were sent from Google to you, and you didn't receive them. The oil isn't being sent anywhere. Besides, if "BP" represents Google (the sender of the message), and their customer's represent your ATT phone (the recipient of the message) - ATT should be holding Google responsible. - Doesn't make any sense at all.


AboutToGoPostal wrote:

 "SMS makes use of a Short Message Service Center (SMSC), which acts as a store-and-forward system for relaying short messages. Similar to an MSC, the SMSC guarantees delivery of text messages by the network. Messages are stored in the network until the destination cell phone becomes available, so a user can receive or transmit an SMS message at any time, whether a voice call is in progress or not."

  -Source: http://developers.sun.com/mobility/midp/articles/sms/  (emphasis mine)


Your citing a document on sun.com? That document doesn't even prove that ATT says they "guarantee delivery", the word isn't even used the same. And the document doesn't represent ATT. The word AT&T doesn't even appear once in the document.

 

You should sue Sun with a "class action law suit" for not guaranteeing your SMS delivery.

 


AboutToGoPostal wrote:

I will bet BP isn't billing for the gas/crude oil it isn't delivering from the Deepwater Horizon.  

So why is  AT&T billing for the SMS service  it isn't delivering to their customers?


Your example here doesn't make sense. According to you they were sent from Google to you, and you didn't receive them. The oil isn't being sent anywhere. Besides, if "BP" represents Google (the sender of the message), and their customer's represent your ATT phone (the recipient of the message) - ATT should be holding Google responsible. - Doesn't make any sense at all.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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May 31, 2010 1:28:30 PM
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It's not JUST messages sent via Google that don't arrive.   It's just that the ones coming via Google are logged, so it's easier to see that they've gone missing.

 

SUN documents the SMS protocol - BUT there are tons of other sources that document the same thing - that SMS guarantees delivery.  AT&T provides SMS service.

It's not JUST messages sent via Google that don't arrive.   It's just that the ones coming via Google are logged, so it's easier to see that they've gone missing.

 

SUN documents the SMS protocol - BUT there are tons of other sources that document the same thing - that SMS guarantees delivery.  AT&T provides SMS service.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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May 31, 2010 3:54:21 PM
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again, AT&T cannot provided 100% coverage at all times, and cant guarentee message delivery, there is no reason for AT&T to give a credit for that.

 


I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions.

again, AT&T cannot provided 100% coverage at all times, and cant guarentee message delivery, there is no reason for AT&T to give a credit for that.

 


I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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Jun 1, 2010 4:56:12 AM
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Edited by Caretaker on Jun 1, 2010 at 5:59:18 AM

AboutToGoPostal wrote:

SUN documents the SMS protocol - BUT there are tons of other sources that document the same thing - that SMS guarantees delivery.  AT&T provides SMS service.


{ Uncalled for comment removed } SMS is a service, there is nothing about the term SMS that guarantees delivery. Nothing at all.

 

Instead of citing documents from different companies, try some from ATT. Like the document I'm showing you below. Its part of the contract you signed when you created the service.

 

 Wireless Data Service Terms and Conditions

II. ADDITIONAL TERMS FOR SPECIFIC WIRELESS DATA SERVICES

 

Text, Instant Messaging and Picture/Video Messaging: Messages are limited to 160 characters per message. Premium text and picture/video messages are charged at their stated rates. Standard rates apply to all incoming messages when in the U.S. Different, non-standard per message charges apply to international messages sent from the U.S. Text, Instant, Picture, and Video messages are charged when sent or received, whether read or unread, solicited or unsolicited. AT&T does not guarantee delivery of messages. Text, Instant, Picture, and Video messages, including downloaded content, not delivered within 7 days will be deleted. AT&T reserves the right to change this delivery period as needed without notification. You are charged for each part of messages that are delivered to you in multiple parts. Picture/Video Messaging, data plan, and Text Messaging may need to be provisioned on an account in order to use Picture/Video Messaging. Some elements of Picture/Video messages may not be accessible, viewable, or heard due to limitations on certain wireless phones, PCs, or [e] -mail. AT&T reserves the right to change the Picture/Video message size limit at any time without notification. Picture/Video Messaging pricing is for domestic messages only. When a single message is sent to multiple recipients, the sender is charged for one message for each recipient and each recipient is charged for the message received. Text message notifications may be sent to non-Picture/Video Messaging subscribers if they subscribe to Text Messaging.


AboutToGoPostal wrote:

SUN documents the SMS protocol - BUT there are tons of other sources that document the same thing - that SMS guarantees delivery.  AT&T provides SMS service.


{ Uncalled for comment removed } SMS is a service, there is nothing about the term SMS that guarantees delivery. Nothing at all.

 

Instead of citing documents from different companies, try some from ATT. Like the document I'm showing you below. Its part of the contract you signed when you created the service.

 

 Wireless Data Service Terms and Conditions

II. ADDITIONAL TERMS FOR SPECIFIC WIRELESS DATA SERVICES

 

Text, Instant Messaging and Picture/Video Messaging: Messages are limited to 160 characters per message. Premium text and picture/video messages are charged at their stated rates. Standard rates apply to all incoming messages when in the U.S. Different, non-standard per message charges apply to international messages sent from the U.S. Text, Instant, Picture, and Video messages are charged when sent or received, whether read or unread, solicited or unsolicited. AT&T does not guarantee delivery of messages. Text, Instant, Picture, and Video messages, including downloaded content, not delivered within 7 days will be deleted. AT&T reserves the right to change this delivery period as needed without notification. You are charged for each part of messages that are delivered to you in multiple parts. Picture/Video Messaging, data plan, and Text Messaging may need to be provisioned on an account in order to use Picture/Video Messaging. Some elements of Picture/Video messages may not be accessible, viewable, or heard due to limitations on certain wireless phones, PCs, or [e] -mail. AT&T reserves the right to change the Picture/Video message size limit at any time without notification. Picture/Video Messaging pricing is for domestic messages only. When a single message is sent to multiple recipients, the sender is charged for one message for each recipient and each recipient is charged for the message received. Text message notifications may be sent to non-Picture/Video Messaging subscribers if they subscribe to Text Messaging.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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Jul 3, 2010 11:44:23 AM
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If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the documentation of the SMS protocol and system doesn't show that it is engineered to guarantee delivery, go ahead.   But I will continue to insist that all the documentation I've seen shows it does, as long as that continues to be true.  (SMS is very different from voice service, which is not engineered to guarantee delivery.)

 

If you are trying to lawyer that the SMS service AT&T provides doesn't refer to the standard SMS protocol / system, which your use of the wording "the term" suggests, be my guest. 

 

I concede that if AT&T wanted to cower behind its TOS disclaimers (which, BTW should clearly indicate that it does attempt to block SMS spam) as a reason for not providing credit for defective service, it could attempt to do so.

 

If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the documentation of the SMS protocol and system doesn't show that it is engineered to guarantee delivery, go ahead.   But I will continue to insist that all the documentation I've seen shows it does, as long as that continues to be true.  (SMS is very different from voice service, which is not engineered to guarantee delivery.)

 

If you are trying to lawyer that the SMS service AT&T provides doesn't refer to the standard SMS protocol / system, which your use of the wording "the term" suggests, be my guest. 

 

I concede that if AT&T wanted to cower behind its TOS disclaimers (which, BTW should clearly indicate that it does attempt to block SMS spam) as a reason for not providing credit for defective service, it could attempt to do so.

 

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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Jul 7, 2010 9:56:50 AM
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ATT didnt invent the SMS protocol, you can take that up with the "maker" of the protocol. While your at it, why not dispute things the government does to "guarantee" the economy goes up. Plain and simple, the document you referenced doesnt use that word in the same context as you are.
ATT didnt invent the SMS protocol, you can take that up with the "maker" of the protocol. While your at it, why not dispute things the government does to "guarantee" the economy goes up. Plain and simple, the document you referenced doesnt use that word in the same context as you are.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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Jul 8, 2010 1:03:28 AM
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and sms messages are that are received on the network are repeatedly attempted to be delivered for 72 hours then the message is dropped thats how it works for every carrier, i work for sprint tech support if you are using a third party application for sms then no at&t would not be responsible for the issue due to the fact that you are using google voice and not direct sms through the at&t network.

and sms messages are that are received on the network are repeatedly attempted to be delivered for 72 hours then the message is dropped thats how it works for every carrier, i work for sprint tech support if you are using a third party application for sms then no at&t would not be responsible for the issue due to the fact that you are using google voice and not direct sms through the at&t network.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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May 25, 2011 1:04:24 AM
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spmfox wrote:
ATT didnt invent the SMS protocol, you can take that up with the "maker" of the protocol. While your at it, why not dispute things the government does to "guarantee" the economy goes up. Plain and simple, the document you referenced doesnt use that word in the same context as you are.

I've got no issue with the protocol.  I have an issue with AT&T's implementation; namely it's defective.  If all the carriers drop messages after 72 hours, they're all defective implementations.  

 

I've written a protocol specification that is in widespread use.  Have you?


spmfox wrote:
ATT didnt invent the SMS protocol, you can take that up with the "maker" of the protocol. While your at it, why not dispute things the government does to "guarantee" the economy goes up. Plain and simple, the document you referenced doesnt use that word in the same context as you are.

I've got no issue with the protocol.  I have an issue with AT&T's implementation; namely it's defective.  If all the carriers drop messages after 72 hours, they're all defective implementations.  

 

I've written a protocol specification that is in widespread use.  Have you?

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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May 25, 2011 12:19:21 PM
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Turn your phone off for 72 hours, send yourself a message and see what happens. Maybe you should be on mythbusters or something lol

Turn your phone off for 72 hours, send yourself a message and see what happens. Maybe you should be on mythbusters or something lol

Re: How can I get credit for undelivered SMS messages?

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May 25, 2011 3:15:38 PM
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AboutToGoPostal wrote:

spmfox wrote:
ATT didnt invent the SMS protocol, you can take that up with the "maker" of the protocol. While your at it, why not dispute things the government does to "guarantee" the economy goes up. Plain and simple, the document you referenced doesnt use that word in the same context as you are.

I've got no issue with the protocol.  I have an issue with AT&T's implementation; namely it's defective.  If all the carriers drop messages after 72 hours, they're all defective implementations.  

 

I've written a protocol specification that is in widespread use.  Have you?



really which RFC or NPS did you author and what is the number?

 

The all carriers have defective implementation becasue they all drop after 72


AboutToGoPostal wrote:

spmfox wrote:
ATT didnt invent the SMS protocol, you can take that up with the "maker" of the protocol. While your at it, why not dispute things the government does to "guarantee" the economy goes up. Plain and simple, the document you referenced doesnt use that word in the same context as you are.

I've got no issue with the protocol.  I have an issue with AT&T's implementation; namely it's defective.  If all the carriers drop messages after 72 hours, they're all defective implementations.  

 

I've written a protocol specification that is in widespread use.  Have you?



really which RFC or NPS did you author and what is the number?

 

The all carriers have defective implementation becasue they all drop after 72

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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May 26, 2011 3:59:22 PM
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Edited by AboutToGoPostal on May 26, 2011 at 4:58:26 PM

wingrider01 wrote:

AboutToGoPostal wrote:

spmfox wrote:
ATT didnt invent the SMS protocol, you can take that up with the "maker" of the protocol. While your at it, why not dispute things the government does to "guarantee" the economy goes up. Plain and simple, the document you referenced doesnt use that word in the same context as you are.

I've got no issue with the protocol.  I have an issue with AT&T's implementation; namely it's defective.  If all the carriers drop messages after 72 hours, they're all defective implementations.  

 

I've written a protocol specification that is in widespread use.  Have you?



really which RFC or NPS did you author and what is the number?

 

The all carriers have defective implementation becasue they all drop after 72


If I didn't use a pseudonym here, I'd be happy to tell you.  If one went through enough of my posts, one could figure it out if one was smart.


wingrider01 wrote:

AboutToGoPostal wrote:

spmfox wrote:
ATT didnt invent the SMS protocol, you can take that up with the "maker" of the protocol. While your at it, why not dispute things the government does to "guarantee" the economy goes up. Plain and simple, the document you referenced doesnt use that word in the same context as you are.

I've got no issue with the protocol.  I have an issue with AT&T's implementation; namely it's defective.  If all the carriers drop messages after 72 hours, they're all defective implementations.  

 

I've written a protocol specification that is in widespread use.  Have you?



really which RFC or NPS did you author and what is the number?

 

The all carriers have defective implementation becasue they all drop after 72


If I didn't use a pseudonym here, I'd be happy to tell you.  If one went through enough of my posts, one could figure it out if one was smart.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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wingrider01 wrote:

AboutToGoPostal wrote:

I've written a protocol specification that is in widespread use.  Have you?



really which RFC or NPS did you author and what is the number?

 

 

Way to answer a question with a question. 

 


wingrider01 wrote:

AboutToGoPostal wrote:

I've written a protocol specification that is in widespread use.  Have you?



really which RFC or NPS did you author and what is the number?

 

 

Way to answer a question with a question. 

 

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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Mar 6, 2014 6:20:26 PM
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AboutToGoPostal wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

AboutToGoPostal wrote:

I've written a protocol specification that is in widespread use.  Have you?



really which RFC or NPS did you author and what is the number?

 

 

Way to answer a question with a question. 

 


Did you really come back after almost 3 years just to say that?

 

Are you getting your text messages now?


AboutToGoPostal wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

AboutToGoPostal wrote:

I've written a protocol specification that is in widespread use.  Have you?



really which RFC or NPS did you author and what is the number?

 

 

Way to answer a question with a question. 

 


Did you really come back after almost 3 years just to say that?

 

Are you getting your text messages now?

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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AT&T service is unreliable for no good reason. Nothing you've said or quoted changes that. AGAIN: If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the documentation of the SMS protocol and system doesn't show that it is engineered to guarantee delivery, go ahead. But I will continue to insist that all the documentation I've seen shows it does, as long as that continues to be true. (SMS is very different from voice service, which is not engineered to guarantee delivery.) If you are trying to lawyer that the SMS service AT&T provides doesn't refer to the standard SMS protocol / system, which your use of the wording "the term" suggests, be my guest. I concede that if AT&T wanted to cower behind its TOS disclaimers (which, BTW should clearly indicate that it does attempt to block SMS spam) as a reason for not providing credit for defective service, it could attempt to do so. AT&T SMS service is unreliable for no good reason, and AT&T won't own up to that truth. Nigh everything you've said is a distraction to obfuscate that fact.
AT&T service is unreliable for no good reason. Nothing you've said or quoted changes that. AGAIN: If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the documentation of the SMS protocol and system doesn't show that it is engineered to guarantee delivery, go ahead. But I will continue to insist that all the documentation I've seen shows it does, as long as that continues to be true. (SMS is very different from voice service, which is not engineered to guarantee delivery.) If you are trying to lawyer that the SMS service AT&T provides doesn't refer to the standard SMS protocol / system, which your use of the wording "the term" suggests, be my guest. I concede that if AT&T wanted to cower behind its TOS disclaimers (which, BTW should clearly indicate that it does attempt to block SMS spam) as a reason for not providing credit for defective service, it could attempt to do so. AT&T SMS service is unreliable for no good reason, and AT&T won't own up to that truth. Nigh everything you've said is a distraction to obfuscate that fact.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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Edited by lizdance40 on Sep 16, 2015 at 2:29:35 PM

@AboutToGoPostal

 

5 years ago you posted this:

 

I've been having trouble - undelivered text messages - on and off all year.

I use Google Voice, so I have logs that show that messages I never received were sent.

Google Voice shows R sent me messages at 6:44 PM and 8:15 PM, and C did at 7:02 PM, all on Sunday. I got earlier and later messages, but not these.

Is there a way to get credit other than calling in? Tech folks are unable to troubleshoot. They don't have access to logs, so they simply suggest I swap my SIM and/or phone, hoping that 'll fix it or make me go away.

 

Since you are using a 3 rd party message service, how does this in any way become an ATT problem?

Its kind of like blaming the post office when your UPS package doesn't arrive.

 

 

 

We are customers too. Our answers are based on experience, knowledge and reading the terms of service and are honest, but not always appreciated. Please mark the correct answer. Please do not post personal information

@AboutToGoPostal

 

5 years ago you posted this:

 

I've been having trouble - undelivered text messages - on and off all year.

I use Google Voice, so I have logs that show that messages I never received were sent.

Google Voice shows R sent me messages at 6:44 PM and 8:15 PM, and C did at 7:02 PM, all on Sunday. I got earlier and later messages, but not these.

Is there a way to get credit other than calling in? Tech folks are unable to troubleshoot. They don't have access to logs, so they simply suggest I swap my SIM and/or phone, hoping that 'll fix it or make me go away.

 

Since you are using a 3 rd party message service, how does this in any way become an ATT problem?

Its kind of like blaming the post office when your UPS package doesn't arrive.

 

 

 

We are customers too. Our answers are based on experience, knowledge and reading the terms of service and are honest, but not always appreciated. Please mark the correct answer. Please do not post personal information
We are customers too. Our answers are based on experience, knowledge and reading the terms of service and are honest, but not always appreciated. Please mark the correct answer. Please do not post personal information.
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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AboutToGoPostal wrote:
 If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the documentation of the SMS protocol and system doesn't show that it is engineered to guarantee delivery, go ahead. But I will continue to insist that all the documentation I've seen shows it does, as long as that continues to be true..

Very interesting thread. I've never thought of SMS as being a guaranteed delivery protocol. As for documentation of that, I believe this is the "official" SMS rfc: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5724.txt. I quote this from paragraph 4:

 

"SMS messages very often are delivered almost instantaneously (if the receiving SMS client is online), but there is no guarantee for when SMS messages will be delivered.  In particular, SMS messages between different network operators sometimes take a long time to be delivered (hours or even days) or are not delivered at all, so applications SHOULD NOT make any assumptions about the reliability and performance of SMS message transmission."


AboutToGoPostal wrote:
 If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the documentation of the SMS protocol and system doesn't show that it is engineered to guarantee delivery, go ahead. But I will continue to insist that all the documentation I've seen shows it does, as long as that continues to be true..

Very interesting thread. I've never thought of SMS as being a guaranteed delivery protocol. As for documentation of that, I believe this is the "official" SMS rfc: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5724.txt. I quote this from paragraph 4:

 

"SMS messages very often are delivered almost instantaneously (if the receiving SMS client is online), but there is no guarantee for when SMS messages will be delivered.  In particular, SMS messages between different network operators sometimes take a long time to be delivered (hours or even days) or are not delivered at all, so applications SHOULD NOT make any assumptions about the reliability and performance of SMS message transmission."

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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ACE - Expert

Just plug in "google voice text messages not being received" in browser and I get a ton of responses.  5 years fussing over ATT when you should be troubleshooting your GV account.

We are customers too. Our answers are based on experience, knowledge and reading the terms of service and are honest, but not always appreciated. Please mark the correct answer. Please do not post personal information

Just plug in "google voice text messages not being received" in browser and I get a ton of responses.  5 years fussing over ATT when you should be troubleshooting your GV account.

We are customers too. Our answers are based on experience, knowledge and reading the terms of service and are honest, but not always appreciated. Please mark the correct answer. Please do not post personal information
We are customers too. Our answers are based on experience, knowledge and reading the terms of service and are honest, but not always appreciated. Please mark the correct answer. Please do not post personal information.
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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Edited by AboutToGoPostal on Nov 11, 2015 at 12:45:37 PM

sandblaster wrote:

AboutToGoPostal wrote:
 If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the documentation of the SMS protocol and system doesn't show that it is engineered to guarantee delivery, go ahead. But I will continue to insist that all the documentation I've seen shows it does, as long as that continues to be true..

Very interesting thread. I've never thought of SMS as being a guaranteed delivery protocol. As for documentation of that, I believe this is the "official" SMS rfc: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5724.txt.


Wow, how deceptive can you be? RFC 5724 is CERTAINLY NOT the "official" documentation of the SMS protocol.  The documentation of the SMS protocol is found at the URL I provided.  Let's take a look at the IETF RFC you refer to. It is titled 

URI Scheme for Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM)
                      Short Message Service (SMS)

 It does include some useful references, however:

[SMS]      European Telecommunications Standards Institute, "3GPP TS
              23.040 V7.0.1 (2007-03): 3rd Generation Partnership
              Project; Technical Specification Group Core Network and
              Terminals; Technical realization of the Short Message
              Service (SMS) (Release 7)", March 2007, <http://
              www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/23_series/23.040/
              23040-701.zip>.

   [SMS-CHAR]
              European Telecommunications Standards Institute, "TS 100
              900 (GSM 03.38 version 7.2.0 Release 1998): Digital
              Cellular Telecommunications System (Phase 2+); Alphabets
              and language-specific information", July 1999, <http://
              www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/03_series/03.38/
              0338-720.zip>.

 


sandblaster wrote:

AboutToGoPostal wrote:
 If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that the documentation of the SMS protocol and system doesn't show that it is engineered to guarantee delivery, go ahead. But I will continue to insist that all the documentation I've seen shows it does, as long as that continues to be true..

Very interesting thread. I've never thought of SMS as being a guaranteed delivery protocol. As for documentation of that, I believe this is the "official" SMS rfc: https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5724.txt.


Wow, how deceptive can you be? RFC 5724 is CERTAINLY NOT the "official" documentation of the SMS protocol.  The documentation of the SMS protocol is found at the URL I provided.  Let's take a look at the IETF RFC you refer to. It is titled 

URI Scheme for Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM)
                      Short Message Service (SMS)

 It does include some useful references, however:

[SMS]      European Telecommunications Standards Institute, "3GPP TS
              23.040 V7.0.1 (2007-03): 3rd Generation Partnership
              Project; Technical Specification Group Core Network and
              Terminals; Technical realization of the Short Message
              Service (SMS) (Release 7)", March 2007, <http://
              www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/23_series/23.040/
              23040-701.zip>.

   [SMS-CHAR]
              European Telecommunications Standards Institute, "TS 100
              900 (GSM 03.38 version 7.2.0 Release 1998): Digital
              Cellular Telecommunications System (Phase 2+); Alphabets
              and language-specific information", July 1999, <http://
              www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/03_series/03.38/
              0338-720.zip>.

 

Re: How can I get credit for **defective service that resulted in** undelivered SMS messages?

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