iDont/ iDo

Scholar

Re: iDont/ iDo

Well, I won't get in the middle of your personal debate, but I am interested to know how those programs running in the background may affect battery life or responsiveness. I've had bad experiences with those issues on some early WinMo phones. I think I'll go play with the Droid this weekend.
Message 76 of 104 (1,309 Views)
Scholar

Re: iDont/ iDo

I don't understand why a couple of you are hung up on "multi-tasking" and it's offical technical defination.  Quit simply, multi-tasking for the iPhone would mean running multiple apps at the same time, being able to switch back and forth amoung them, not being forced to end one app in order to run another as it works now.  For cell phones, that's what multi-tasking refers too.  I'd imagine the reason why the iPhone can't is because it doesn't have the processing power to do so efficiently and maybe because Apple doesn't see any reason for it too.  As technology grows and cell phones advance in technology and become more like mini pc's in the palm of your hand, multi-tasking will become more previliant. 

 

If I'm on the go reading an eBook on my iPhone and happen upon a word I don't know the meaning of, it would be nice to open a Dictionary app and find out what it means without having to close down my eReader every time.  This is just one small example of why multi-tasking can be very beneficial and give the user greater freedom and flexability of their devise.  Many don't see this feature as a big deal now, but it will be as time goes on I'm sure.

Message 77 of 104 (1,285 Views)
Professor

Re: iDont/ iDo


elrondius wrote:

Doppler808 wrote:

tonester wrote:

Doppler808 wrote:
The END USER can't multitask on ANY cell phone unless they make the screens bigger.

I didn't realize that multitasking required a decently-sized screen; however, different folks have different understandings as to what exactly multitasking involves.  Let me put it in a form of a question--on an iPhone, would one be considered to be "multitasking" on it if using the iPod function/app to listen to music while at the same time browsing in Safari? Or, if allowable, to record a lecture using the Apple Voice Memo app while browsing in Safari (AFAIK there is currently no iTunes voice recording app that will run in the background, but it would be neat if Apple allowed it to do so)?


 Multitasking in its truest definition is to perform two or more processes during a single processing cycle.  All phones can do that.  When you make a call and the time shows while you are on a call.  That is multitasking.  The END USER must use more than one sense in order to multitask on a 3-4 inch screen.  You can't see visually both applications to take in data to multitask.  So you are essentially NOT multitasking in its true definition.  YOU would be multitasking if your friend was talking to you while you were texting someone 1,000 miles away.

 

As you said it yourself.  Background...  That's what everyone really wants.  Have apps able to run in the background.  There's a major difference between the two when it comes down to the END USER.  Companies who use "Multitasking" as the term were playing word games to entice people to buy their phones.

 

As for the Andriod commercial if you notice they didn't even call it Multitasking...  They didn't say "iDon't Multitask" they said "iDon't run simultaneous Applications"

Message Edited by Doppler808 on 11-03-2009 11:49:36 AM

In computing, multitasking is a method by which multiple tasks, also known as processes, share common processing resources such as a CPU. In the case of a computer with a single CPU, only one task is said to be running at any point in time, meaning that the CPU is actively executing instructions for that task. Multitasking solves the problem by scheduling which task may be the one running at any given time, and when another waiting task gets a turn.

 

Gee, so if I have three apps open at the same time on a droid and am switching back and forth between the three of them and doing tasks on them without having to save/reopen....

 

I'M MULTI TASKING AND SO IS THE PHONE.

 

End of discussion.  Next time try and talk about something you know about.


Dude you are so wrong. on a 15 inch screen you can visually collect data from 2 of more visual sources to process from a single processing cycle. On a 3 1/2 inch screen you can't do that. YOU are not multitasking. ALL phones can multitask by definition. The end user is a different story. You can try and validate yourself to think you can multitask on a 3 1/2 inch screen, but by definition YOU can not.
Message 78 of 104 (1,271 Views)
Professor

Re: iDont/ iDo


xPhantomx wrote:

I don't understand why a couple of you are hung up on "multi-tasking" and it's offical technical defination.  Quit simply, multi-tasking for the iPhone would mean running multiple apps at the same time, being able to switch back and forth amoung them, not being forced to end one app in order to run another as it works now.  For cell phones, that's what multi-tasking refers too.  I'd imagine the reason why the iPhone can't is because it doesn't have the processing power to do so efficiently and maybe because Apple doesn't see any reason for it too.  As technology grows and cell phones advance in technology and become more like mini pc's in the palm of your hand, multi-tasking will become more previliant. 

 

If I'm on the go reading an eBook on my iPhone and happen upon a word I don't know the meaning of, it would be nice to open a Dictionary app and find out what it means without having to close down my eReader every time.  This is just one small example of why multi-tasking can be very beneficial and give the user greater freedom and flexability of their devise.  Many don't see this feature as a big deal now, but it will be as time goes on I'm sure.


That would be background processing not multitasking as the end user can not multitask when something is running in the background as YOU can't collect data from the second application to processes.
Message 79 of 104 (1,270 Views)
Professor

Re: iDont/ iDo

I'm on the fence here, I feel running "iPod music" (or any media player) and surfing the web is multi-tasking, making a call while web surfing IS multi-tasking (Good luck with that VZW lol)! But in the PC world running multiple programs on one screen or multi-screens is what I call Multi-tasking and maybe that's the problem, my Mac does that VERY well and maybe that's why Apple doesn't want to implement it in a junky (Windows Mobile) way on there iPhone.
Message 80 of 104 (1,262 Views)
Professor

Re: iDont/ iDo


Demetri70 wrote:
I'm on the fence here, I feel running "iPod music" (or any media player) and surfing the web is multi-tasking, making a call while web surfing IS multi-tasking (Good luck with that VZW lol)! But in the PC world running multiple programs on one screen or multi-screens is what I call Multi-tasking and maybe that's the problem, my Mac does that VERY well and maybe that's why Apple doesn't want to implement it in a junky (Windows Mobile) way on there iPhone.
That is multitasking in a sense, because you are processing data during a processing cycle. You are processing data from sound and visually. When you try and get data from two visual sources NO phone will allow that to happen on a 3 1/2 inch screen even though you have 50 visual type applications running. On a 15 inch screen you can move Apps so you can see 2 or more visually at a time in which then you would be "multitasking".

I had already mentioned this in the other thread. Unless you can use other sources to gather information the END USER can't multitask on a phone. It would merely be background processing in which is COMPLETELY different than multitasking.
Message 81 of 104 (1,758 Views)

Re: iDont/ iDo

My definition of "multi-tasking" always came from a software orientation, where a processor is running multiple applications simultaneously, regardless of user "focus".

 

As mentioned a few times prior, in my understanding of multi-tasking has little to do with what the user can see and do as opposed to what the device is doing.

 

The iPhone supports limmited "multi-tasking."  I can have a phone conversation going and start up Safari or App Store and browse.  I'd like to be able to have Pandora going while I play Sudoku too, but the iPhone, for whatever reason, does not support that while it does support having the "iPod" playing while I do other things (like play Sudoku).

 

Anyway, beyond that any single threaded OS or single processor system will more than likely only support "time slicing" not actual programmatic or CPU multiprocessing, and as I recall the original iPhone, 2g, and 3g had what I would say were 'comperably weak' processors vs. some of what we've seen coming out of other manufacturers like HTC, but ultimately at this point it's a minor inconvenience.

 

There's not too many circumstances or applications that I'd really have to have multiple apps going on simultaneously.

Message 82 of 104 (1,740 Views)
Scholar

Re: iDont/ iDo


Doppler808 wrote:

xPhantomx wrote:

I don't understand why a couple of you are hung up on "multi-tasking" and it's offical technical defination.  Quit simply, multi-tasking for the iPhone would mean running multiple apps at the same time, being able to switch back and forth amoung them, not being forced to end one app in order to run another as it works now.  For cell phones, that's what multi-tasking refers too.  I'd imagine the reason why the iPhone can't is because it doesn't have the processing power to do so efficiently and maybe because Apple doesn't see any reason for it too.  As technology grows and cell phones advance in technology and become more like mini pc's in the palm of your hand, multi-tasking will become more previliant. 

 

If I'm on the go reading an eBook on my iPhone and happen upon a word I don't know the meaning of, it would be nice to open a Dictionary app and find out what it means without having to close down my eReader every time.  This is just one small example of why multi-tasking can be very beneficial and give the user greater freedom and flexability of their devise.  Many don't see this feature as a big deal now, but it will be as time goes on I'm sure.


That would be background processing not multitasking as the end user can not multitask when something is running in the background as YOU can't collect data from the second application to processes.

 

You can have a couple apps running on a pc, can see them both at the same time on your monitor but only one app can be interacted with by the user at a time.  While your interacting with one app the other is essentnially in the background processing data dispite you can still see it on screen.  Plug in two mice to your pc then open two apps and see if you can click on icons on both apps at the exact same time and see if they both obey your commands...won't happen.  Only one app will be active to the user at a time regardless you can see both on screen.  So if I start up the stock market app on the phone and have it fetch stock quotes then open Safari and browse the web, both apps are running and processing data at the same time dispite I can only see and interact with one app at the same time.  To me that's multi-tasking cause I have more than one app processing data, how many I can see on screen at the same time doesn't matter.  That's what I meant by the comment you highlighted me on in my previous response.  Maybe there was some confusion there.
Message 83 of 104 (1,700 Views)
Professor

Re: iDont/ iDo


xPhantomx wrote:

Doppler808 wrote:

xPhantomx wrote:

I don't understand why a couple of you are hung up on "multi-tasking" and it's offical technical defination.  Quit simply, multi-tasking for the iPhone would mean running multiple apps at the same time, being able to switch back and forth amoung them, not being forced to end one app in order to run another as it works now.  For cell phones, that's what multi-tasking refers too.  I'd imagine the reason why the iPhone can't is because it doesn't have the processing power to do so efficiently and maybe because Apple doesn't see any reason for it too.  As technology grows and cell phones advance in technology and become more like mini pc's in the palm of your hand, multi-tasking will become more previliant. 

 

If I'm on the go reading an eBook on my iPhone and happen upon a word I don't know the meaning of, it would be nice to open a Dictionary app and find out what it means without having to close down my eReader every time.  This is just one small example of why multi-tasking can be very beneficial and give the user greater freedom and flexability of their devise.  Many don't see this feature as a big deal now, but it will be as time goes on I'm sure.


That would be background processing not multitasking as the end user can not multitask when something is running in the background as YOU can't collect data from the second application to processes.

 

You can have a couple apps running on a pc, can see them both at the same time on your monitor but only one app can be interacted with by the user at a time.  While your interacting with one app the other is essentnially in the background processing data dispite you can still see it on screen.  Plug in two mice to your pc then open two apps and see if you can click on icons on both apps at the exact same time and see if they both obey your commands...won't happen.  Only one app will be active to the user at a time regardless you can see both on screen.  So if I start up the stock market app on the phone and have it fetch stock quotes then open Safari and browse the web, both apps are running and processing data at the same time dispite I can only see and interact with one app at the same time.  To me that's multi-tasking cause I have more than one app processing data, how many I can see on screen at the same time doesn't matter.  That's what I meant by the comment you highlighted me on in my previous response.  Maybe there was some confusion there.
Actually there's a difference. Lets say you want to see who won the world series WHILE making an application for you work place. I could have ESPN.com on one window and then write my code on the other. I could process the information who is up to bat, who is pitching, the score, and while doing my programming. That is multitasking, but as soon as I have it running in the background I can't see that information at real time while doing it. That information is lost to be processed. It is still being processed in the background by the computer, but not the END USER. So the END USER could have never multitasked. For the END USER to truly Multitask they must use other sense simultaneously to process information. IF just using sight YOU must have the information in front of you or else you CAN'T process that information.
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Scholar

Re: iDont/ iDo

Not allowing 3rd party apps to run in the background make GPS tracking programs pretty much useless for me.

As kayaker and bicyclist I wanted something that would track my paths so I gave a couple of the GPS tracker applications a try but soon discovered that they only tracked my path if they were left open making them pretty much useless as they would stop tracking if I got a phone call or used my phone for anything at all while the application was tracking my path.
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Highlighted
Scholar

Re: iDont/ iDo

From Computerworld:

 

The new Droid slider smartphone by Motorola Inc., running on the Verizon Wireless network, is clearly not an iPhone killer. But it is still pretty cool, with multitasking abilities and Google Inc.'s touches, such as quick access to Google Maps for turn-by-turn navigation with GPS.

 

I guess the Computerworld people are just clueless huh?

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Guru

Re: iDont/ iDo

[ Edited ]

Doppler808 wrote:
For the END USER to truly Multitask they must use other sense simultaneously to process information. IF just using sight YOU must have the information in front of you or else you CAN'T process that information.

I'm confused--based on your comments made above (underline and bold are mine) and in a previous post in this thread...wouldn't listening to music using the iPod function while at the same time texting someone using the Messages app (or similar) be considered end-user multitasking?  After all, two senses (sound/hearing and sight...and actually, three if you consider touch since you'd be tapping the screen if you're composing a text message) are being used simultaneously...no?  Not unless by "sense" you were referring to something entirely different from what my understanding of the word "sense" is...

Message Edited by tonester on 11-05-2009 10:31:11 AM
Message 87 of 104 (1,618 Views)
Professor

Re: iDont/ iDo

Its been understood by people who are halfway tech savvy or informed that the iPhone can multitask to a limited degree, such as listening to music and doing one other task.  So the Doid ads are a bit misleading.  "I do limited multi-tasking" doesn't make for  as good a commercial, I suppose.

 

Multi-task, background processing, call it what you want.  The distinction is just esoteric nomenclature at best.   Its pretty clear that Apple wanted to maintain a smooth running device by not clogging up RAM with a bunch of different processes.  Yes, many other platforms (Palm Pre, Droid, Windows Mobile) can have simultaneous programs open, as long as you don't overwhelm the program memory. But that feature is really not that big a deal.

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Scholar

Re: iDont/ iDo


tonester wrote:

Doppler808 wrote:
For the END USER to truly Multitask they must use other sense simultaneously to process information. IF just using sight YOU must have the information in front of you or else you CAN'T process that information.

I'm confused--based on your comments made above (underline and bold are mine) and in a previous post in this thread...wouldn't listening to music using the iPod function while at the same time texting someone using the Messages app (or similar) be considered end-user multitasking?  After all, two senses (sound/hearing and sight...and actually, three if you consider touch since you'd be tapping the screen if you're composing a text message) are being used simultaneously...no?  Not unless by "sense" you were referring to something entirely different from what my understanding of the word "sense" is...

Message Edited by tonester on 11-05-2009 10:31:11 AM

 

Yes, that's what he means.  It doesn't matter if you can physically see both apps.  We're not talking about the end user multi-tasking in the way he's saying, we're talking about the devise itself multi-tasking.  Weather you can see both apps processing at the same time on screen or not, the processor is still multi-tasking data for both apps at the same time.  So who cares if you have to switch back and forth beween apps because you can only see one on the screen at a time, you still have multiple apps processing data for you.  Switching back and forth only having one app on the screen at a time is just the downside of cell phones and their small screens.

 

The Palm Pre can multi-task apps, but as you see on the commericials you can only see one app at a time on screen, cause that's all there is room for.  But you and the phone are multi-tasking, just the inconvienence of having to switch back and forth amoung apps.

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Expert

Re: iDont/ iDo


elrondius wrote:

From Computerworld:

 

The new Droid slider smartphone by Motorola Inc., running on the Verizon Wireless network, is clearly not an iPhone killer. But it is still pretty cool, with multitasking abilities and Google Inc.'s touches, such as quick access to Google Maps for turn-by-turn navigation with GPS.

 

I guess the Computerworld people are just clueless huh?


 

So when are you going to switch? Just remember that VZW just raised their ETF on smartphones to 375, so it will cost you a pretty penny if you find out you where wrong.
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