You Knew It Was Coming!

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You Knew It Was Coming!

Verizon announced in San Francisco the end of unlimited data.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/verizon-wireless-nixing-unlimited-data-newbies-230818779.html

 

 

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Message 1 of 24
Guru

Re: You Knew It Was Coming!


wingrider01 wrote:

tonester wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

smalcom wrote:

Verizon announced in San Francisco the end of unlimited data.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/verizon-wireless-nixing-unlimited-data-newbies-230818779.html

 

 


posted it in the Media net forum about 2 weeks ago, pricing is higher then ATT's tiered plan(s). The executives of verizon have been hinting at this since november of last year/



Other than the pricing for the 2 GB plan, your "pricing is higher then (sic) ATT's tiered plans" comment is an "apples and oranges" statement--i.e., it's easy to comment that Verizon's data plans are priced higher than AT&T's plans, simply because AT&T doesn't offer a 5 GB or 10 GB plan (their highest tiered plan is 4 GB), so kinda by default Verizon's plans would be priced higher.  However, if you take a closer look at Verizon's 5 GB and 10 GB plans you will see that on a per-GB basis, they are in reality less expensive than if you were to pay for consuming 5 to 10 GB (or more) of data on any of AT&T's tiered data plans.  Sure the pro-AT&T folks will argue that most folks use no more than 2 GB anyways so it doesn't really matter that Verizon's high-data bucket tiered plans are less expensive per-GB than if one were to consume a similar amount (5 GB or more) under AT&T's data plans, but that's besides the point.

 

Verizon is somewhat smart in that they are charging $30 for 2 GB (vs. AT&T's charging $25 for the same amount), simply because they know folks were more or less resigned--if not content--to having paid $30 to begin with (for unlimited data), plus the fact (according to their statistics) that 95% of their subscribers use less than 2 GB per month anyways.

 

Now before the AT&T fanboys come out with the "I told you that the grass isn't always greener" replies, I would venture to guess that AT&T may eventually follow suit and bump up the pricing of their 2 GB plan as well, now that they now know exactly how much Verizon will charge for their 2 GB data plan... Smiley Wink

 

I will concede that AT&T has the pricing advantage if you use no more than 4 GB of data, plus unlike with Verizon's 2 GB plan the AT&T 2 GB plan is eligible for discounts (e.g., FAN).

 

And no, I am not an anti-AT&T and/or pro-Verizon poster--I'm just calling it right down the middle.


Use a Apple to Apple comparision -  are you paying for for 2GB with NO overages at verizon then ATT - YES, ergo you save money at att

 

15.00 for 75 MB at verizon, 15.00 for 200 meg at ATT, same price - for 125 eg a month more = saving money

 

rememebr the carriers justfication for the tier - the majority of people do not exceed 2GB a month. Add to the fact for the time being ATT does not tier basic phones, while Verizon does effective today

 

Again would be surprised if ATT bumps the cost of their 2GB plan -  everyone that is under contract with the current pricing would have the ability to terminate their contract without having to pay the ETF
 


If you were to actually do an apple-to-apple comparison, then you should have known better than to compare the AT&T $15/200 MB plan to the VZ $10/75 MB plan, given that the VZ $10 plan applies to "basic phones" only and from what I understand, VZ does not classify the iPhone as a "basic phone".

 

Also--IIRC maintaining a data plan is not a requirement of the contract when purchasing a smartphone at a subsidized price but rather, it is simply a requirement for using a smartphone under an AT&T wireless service plan; note that you are not required to continue using a smartphone for the duration of the contract, even if said phone was purchased at a subsidized price...only that you maintain wireless phone service as agreed upon (or pay the ETF).

Message 16 of 24
Expert

Re: You Knew It Was Coming!


tonester wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

tonester wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

smalcom wrote:

Verizon announced in San Francisco the end of unlimited data.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/verizon-wireless-nixing-unlimited-data-newbies-230818779.html

 

 


posted it in the Media net forum about 2 weeks ago, pricing is higher then ATT's tiered plan(s). The executives of verizon have been hinting at this since november of last year/



Other than the pricing for the 2 GB plan, your "pricing is higher then (sic) ATT's tiered plans" comment is an "apples and oranges" statement--i.e., it's easy to comment that Verizon's data plans are priced higher than AT&T's plans, simply because AT&T doesn't offer a 5 GB or 10 GB plan (their highest tiered plan is 4 GB), so kinda by default Verizon's plans would be priced higher.  However, if you take a closer look at Verizon's 5 GB and 10 GB plans you will see that on a per-GB basis, they are in reality less expensive than if you were to pay for consuming 5 to 10 GB (or more) of data on any of AT&T's tiered data plans.  Sure the pro-AT&T folks will argue that most folks use no more than 2 GB anyways so it doesn't really matter that Verizon's high-data bucket tiered plans are less expensive per-GB than if one were to consume a similar amount (5 GB or more) under AT&T's data plans, but that's besides the point.

 

Verizon is somewhat smart in that they are charging $30 for 2 GB (vs. AT&T's charging $25 for the same amount), simply because they know folks were more or less resigned--if not content--to having paid $30 to begin with (for unlimited data), plus the fact (according to their statistics) that 95% of their subscribers use less than 2 GB per month anyways.

 

Now before the AT&T fanboys come out with the "I told you that the grass isn't always greener" replies, I would venture to guess that AT&T may eventually follow suit and bump up the pricing of their 2 GB plan as well, now that they now know exactly how much Verizon will charge for their 2 GB data plan... Smiley Wink

 

I will concede that AT&T has the pricing advantage if you use no more than 4 GB of data, plus unlike with Verizon's 2 GB plan the AT&T 2 GB plan is eligible for discounts (e.g., FAN).

 

And no, I am not an anti-AT&T and/or pro-Verizon poster--I'm just calling it right down the middle.


Use a Apple to Apple comparision -  are you paying for for 2GB with NO overages at verizon then ATT - YES, ergo you save money at att

 

15.00 for 75 MB at verizon, 15.00 for 200 meg at ATT, same price - for 125 eg a month more = saving money

 

rememebr the carriers justfication for the tier - the majority of people do not exceed 2GB a month. Add to the fact for the time being ATT does not tier basic phones, while Verizon does effective today

 

Again would be surprised if ATT bumps the cost of their 2GB plan -  everyone that is under contract with the current pricing would have the ability to terminate their contract without having to pay the ETF
 


If you were to actually do an apple-to-apple comparison, then you should have known better than to compare the AT&T $15/200 MB plan to the VZ $10/75 MB plan, given that the VZ $10 plan applies to "basic phones" only and from what I understand, VZ does not classify the iPhone as a "basic phone".

 

Also--IIRC maintaining a data plan is not a requirement of the contract when purchasing a smartphone at a subsidized price but rather, it is simply a requirement for using a smartphone under an AT&T wireless service plan; note that you are not required to continue using a smartphone for the duration of the contract, even if said phone was purchased at a subsidized price...only that you maintain wireless phone service as agreed upon (or pay the ETF).


the apple to apple comparision is for the 2GB plan, the 150mb is a side comment

 

Again please show me where in the etf rules it states that it has to be a contract item change, their own FAQS for termination with no etf specificly state service, no where is mentioned a contracted service. Data is a service  / feature.

Message 17 of 24
Expert

Re: You Knew It Was Coming!


satchev wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

satchev wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:


people are getting out of verizon etf because the regulatory fee is going up by .03 cents.

 

Considering the quoted text is from the FAQS link for the ATT carrier terms of serivce that detail the ETF rules suspect that it does apply


Some are, but some are not.  {Content Removed}

 

This could easily be classified as a "govermental fee" which per the FAQ excerpt that was posted does not constitute a material change to the contract, there would be no reason to waive the ETF and let the customer out of the contract.

 

[Per Community Guidelines: Keep it Relevant and Appropriate]



praytell where is the word contract mentioned in this statement

 

IF WE INCREASE THE PRICE OF ANY OF THE SERVICES TO WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBE, BEYOND THE LIMITS SET FORTH IN YOUR CUSTOMER SERVICE SUMMARY,

 

Data usage is considered a feature that you subscribe to, mandatory on smartphones


What would be the point of waiving the ETF unless the customer were asking to be let out of the contract?  There's no logical reason to waive the ETF or even request it be waived unless the customer is asking to be let out of the contract.

 

Why are you screaming at me about services?

This thread is about VZW eliminating the unlimited data plan and it was brought up that some customers are getting their ETFs waived (i.e. let out of their contract) because of the regulatory fee.

 

Apparently, I missed something... I thought this was a discussion... not scream at someone because you do not agree with or understand their comment.  Geesh.


Not screaming the particular quoted text was capatilized by ATT, not me - complain to them for "screaming", I only highlighted the specifc wording

 

http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/legal/index.jsp?q_termsKey=wirelessCustomerAgreement&... AT%26T Change My Terms And Rates%3F

 

This is documented in the Wireless Customer Agreement

 

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/articles-resources/wireless-terms.jsp

 

The whole point of this is that if the do raise the cost of the data plan as brought up in other points in this and other threads is that it gives the customer the right to terminate the agreement without have to pay the etf.

Message 18 of 24

Re: You Knew It Was Coming!


satchev wrote:

 

Data has and always will be optional... what you are overlooking is that using a smartphone is not required per the terms of the contract.  Any customer can drop the "required" data plan at any time by switching from a smart phone to a QMD or "dumb" phone without affecting their contract which is only for voice service.

 

The only contracts that stipulate data are for laptop connect or MiFi devices since those devices are data only.


Splitting some serious hairs there, the fact is that if AT&T just suddenly raised the fees for their services, without providing adequate notice, or giving customers a no cost "opt out" option [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

The services I am using were priced at a given rate at the outset of my contract.  AT&T (and actually NO service provider of any kind in any business) can just decide to change their terms without providing adequate notice and a chance for the customer to cancel said service, without any sort of penalty, based on that change.

 

There are still a few consumer protection laws out there in the US...

Message 19 of 24
Expert

Re: You Knew It Was Coming!


DimentoGraven wrote:

satchev wrote:

 

Data has and always will be optional... what you are overlooking is that using a smartphone is not required per the terms of the contract.  Any customer can drop the "required" data plan at any time by switching from a smart phone to a QMD or "dumb" phone without affecting their contract which is only for voice service.

 

The only contracts that stipulate data are for laptop connect or MiFi devices since those devices are data only.


Splitting some serious hairs there, the fact is that if AT&T just suddenly raised the fees for their services, without providing adequate notice, or giving customers a no cost "opt out" option [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

The services I am using were priced at a given rate at the outset of my contract.  AT&T (and actually NO service provider of any kind in any business) can just decide to change their terms without providing adequate notice and a chance for the customer to cancel said service, without any sort of penalty, based on that change.

 

There are still a few consumer protection laws out there in the US...


that is not always true - take directv for example, they can (and have every year) increase the cost of services without giving the customer the option to terminate without paying the termination fees. Their contract requirement is not tied to the service level, it is tied to the device in itself. If you get a dvr the 2 yr commitment is tied to lease payment of the device, not to the service attached to it - there is a minimum service level dictated though. Dish network is the same way. 

 

It all depends on how the service contract is written by the companies staff of contract lawyers that the companies either hire or pay fees to.

Message 20 of 24

Re: You Knew It Was Coming!


wingrider01 wrote:

 

that is not always true - take directv for example, they can (and have every year) increase the cost of services without giving the customer the option to terminate without paying the termination fees. Their contract requirement is not tied to the service level, it is tied to the device in itself. If you get a dvr the 2 yr commitment is tied to lease payment of the device, not to the service attached to it - there is a minimum service level dictated though. Dish network is the same way. 

 

It all depends on how the service contract is written by the companies staff of contract lawyers that the companies either hire or pay fees to.


Actually I have some recent experience with that, DirecTV recently tried to raise the rates on my Mother-in-law's cable.  I called them up and let them know that the contract, as signed, had her service at 30/month and as such if they were going to change the rate, we were going to cancel service.

 

The CS rep tried to threaten with ETF, and I explained that since they were changing their terms, ETF didn't apply, and when the CS tried to argue, I promptly interrupted and asked for a supervisor, explained the same to him, to which the supervisor admitted if we canceled within 30 days of the change rate, there would be no ETF.

 

DirecTV was recently burned in a class action for their attempts at 'bait and switch' so as long as you know what you're talking about you can pretty much either get the original rates honored, or cancel and switch at no cost, as long as you act within a reasonable (30 days) time frame from the initial rate change.

 

Also pay close attention to the inserts, companies like to place change notices on the inserts that we normally ignore and throw away, many times they'll explain the change and the fact that if you don't accept it, how you need to notify them.

Message 21 of 24
Expert

Re: You Knew It Was Coming!


DimentoGraven wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

 

that is not always true - take directv for example, they can (and have every year) increase the cost of services without giving the customer the option to terminate without paying the termination fees. Their contract requirement is not tied to the service level, it is tied to the device in itself. If you get a dvr the 2 yr commitment is tied to lease payment of the device, not to the service attached to it - there is a minimum service level dictated though. Dish network is the same way. 

 

It all depends on how the service contract is written by the companies staff of contract lawyers that the companies either hire or pay fees to.


Actually I have some recent experience with that, DirecTV recently tried to raise the rates on my Mother-in-law's cable.  I called them up and let them know that the contract, as signed, had her service at 30/month and as such if they were going to change the rate, we were going to cancel service.

 

The CS rep tried to threaten with ETF, and I explained that since they were changing their terms, ETF didn't apply, and when the CS tried to argue, I promptly interrupted and asked for a supervisor, explained the same to him, to which the supervisor admitted if we canceled within 30 days of the change rate, there would be no ETF.

 

DirecTV was recently burned in a class action for their attempts at 'bait and switch' so as long as you know what you're talking about you can pretty much either get the original rates honored, or cancel and switch at no cost, as long as you act within a reasonable (30 days) time frame from the initial rate change.

 

Also pay close attention to the inserts, companies like to place change notices on the inserts that we normally ignore and throw away, many times they'll explain the change and the fact that if you don't accept it, how you need to notify them.



you are a  very rare beast  then, none of the dedicated satilite tv forums that have members from both directv and dish network have ever posted succesfully breakng contract without being required to return the device AND pay the termination fee, and have been members of those forums since Primestar back in 1995. Never heard of a 30 day period also with directtv, per their tos for the lease contract the time period is 3 days

Message 22 of 24

Re: You Knew It Was Coming!


wingrider01 wrote:


you are a  very rare beast  then, none of the dedicated satilite tv forums that have members from both directv and dish network have ever posted succesfully breakng contract without being required to return the device AND pay the termination fee, and have been members of those forums since Primestar back in 1995. Never heard of a 30 day period also with directtv, per their tos for the lease contract the time period is 3 days


Oh, we definitely returned the receivers, the dish is apparently left at the home per their normal business practice, but as for the receivers those are typically rented to you, though in the case of DVR's, the satellite and cable company's typically will 'comp' that (wave the fees).

 

Now, had I purchased the receivers (you can purchase them, I have 4 up in my attic now), all I would have to have been paying for is the cable service, and again, if DirecTV, Dish, AT&T, et al, raised the agreed upon rate before a documented scheduled rate change, by law they have to notify you and give you the opportunity to cancel service without penalty.

 

As I recall with my mom-in-law's service, she originally signed a 2 year agreement with the first twelve months at a garunteed 29.99 basic service rate, and after that 12 months the rate would increase to whatever the 'standard rate' for basic would be at that time.  Well DirecTV started charging 35.00 for basic 9 months into her service, thus they broke the original service agreement, and we were able to cancel service, without ETF's, because we did so BEFORE another payment was made at the higher rate.

 

Typically if you make that payment at the higher rate you have 'defacto' agreed to the new terms.

 

Just pay attention to what's going on with your bills, what's enclosed with your bills, and you'll be able to catch these things before they become a problem

Message 23 of 24
Highlighted
Expert

Re: You Knew It Was Coming!


DimentoGraven wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:


you are a  very rare beast  then, none of the dedicated satilite tv forums that have members from both directv and dish network have ever posted succesfully breakng contract without being required to return the device AND pay the termination fee, and have been members of those forums since Primestar back in 1995. Never heard of a 30 day period also with directtv, per their tos for the lease contract the time period is 3 days


Oh, we definitely returned the receivers, the dish is apparently left at the home per their normal business practice, but as for the receivers those are typically rented to you, though in the case of DVR's, the satellite and cable company's typically will 'comp' that (wave the fees).

 

Now, had I purchased the receivers (you can purchase them, I have 4 up in my attic now), all I would have to have been paying for is the cable service, and again, if DirecTV, Dish, AT&T, et al, raised the agreed upon rate before a documented scheduled rate change, by law they have to notify you and give you the opportunity to cancel service without penalty.

 

As I recall with my mom-in-law's service, she originally signed a 2 year agreement with the first twelve months at a garunteed 29.99 basic service rate, and after that 12 months the rate would increase to whatever the 'standard rate' for basic would be at that time.  Well DirecTV started charging 35.00 for basic 9 months into her service, thus they broke the original service agreement, and we were able to cancel service, without ETF's, because we did so BEFORE another payment was made at the higher rate.

 

Typically if you make that payment at the higher rate you have 'defacto' agreed to the new terms.

 

Just pay attention to what's going on with your bills, what's enclosed with your bills, and you'll be able to catch these things before they become a problem


unlike a lot of people I pay 100 percent to attention to all contracts, terms of service incoming bills. Know with in 3 percent what the monthly expenses will be.

 

Not going to continue this discussion with you, if you paid 199 or less for the directv dvrs or they are not HR10-250, R15's or the old SD600  units then you best check the RID number of the units, they are probable designated as leased.

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