Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

Contributor

Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

"For those who are unaware, the IMEI is an International Mobile Equipment Identity number which is unique to each individual mobile phone it is assigned to. It's also how providers identify your device on their network.

Europe has an IMEI Blacklist, as well as Australia... so that when a phone is reported lost or stolen, it can be blocked from use on other networks, but in North America, no such list exists. North American carriers claim that cell phone theft is not a big deal in North America, and you seriously have to wonder what drugs they are under the influence of.


Regardless of the cost of your handset, it's really sad to me that something that could be implemented so easily, is being ignored."

 

--iPhonediscussioner DRTigerlilly

Message 1 of 28
Expert

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 


as of year end financails we have 18 different divisions that deal with different facets of technology, from medical, law enforcement, customer service both live and online to name just a few. Have adedicated marketing department that is always on the look out for nee ideas that will increase the corporate net work and the financial income of the people that work in the company. Alway on the look out for something that will make myself and my people money. This might be a interesting thing and lucrative for the company.

 

Cell phone cloning is not something new - it has been around for years... the market in stolen, hard to trace phones is very lucrative

Message 16 of 28
Master

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 


as of year end financails we have 18 different divisions that deal with different facets of technology, from medical, law enforcement, customer service both live and online to name just a few. Have adedicated marketing department that is always on the look out for nee ideas that will increase the corporate net work and the financial income of the people that work in the company. Alway on the look out for something that will make myself and my people money. This might be a interesting thing and lucrative for the company.

 

Cell phone cloning is not something new - it has been around for years... the market in stolen, hard to trace phones is very lucrative


Nothing wrong with taking a hard look at ways to grow the business and new product/service line possibilities. Smiley Happy  Just because as a consumer, I pesonally don't feel it's something worth paying for doesn't mean there isn't money to be made at it.  lol.

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

Message 17 of 28
Expert

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 


as of year end financails we have 18 different divisions that deal with different facets of technology, from medical, law enforcement, customer service both live and online to name just a few. Have adedicated marketing department that is always on the look out for nee ideas that will increase the corporate net work and the financial income of the people that work in the company. Alway on the look out for something that will make myself and my people money. This might be a interesting thing and lucrative for the company.

 

Cell phone cloning is not something new - it has been around for years... the market in stolen, hard to trace phones is very lucrative


Nothing wrong with taking a hard look at ways to grow the business and new product/service line possibilities. Smiley Happy  Just because as a consumer, I pesonally don't feel it's something worth paying for doesn't mean there isn't money to be made at it.  lol.

 


thre are a lot of things I don;t think are worth paying for, but still have to - if and when this ever comes about either at carrier envolvement or as a federal govemenent mandate you can bet your bottom dollar you will be paying for it, either as a surcharge by the goverment or a recovery chanrge by the carrier.

 

 

Thing is, these blacklsts are mandated in europe in some countries - and they don;t work over there either, so eother way a stolen phone will still end up being used

Message 18 of 28
Master

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

 


wingrider01 wrote:
thre are a lot of things I don;t think are worth paying for, but still have to - if and when this ever comes about either at carrier envolvement or as a federal govemenent mandate you can bet your bottom dollar you will be paying for it, either as a surcharge by the goverment or a recovery chanrge by the carrier.

 

 

Thing is, these blacklsts are mandated in europe in some countries - and they don;t work over there either, so eother way a stolen phone will still end up being used


True - however, fortunately we have the luxury of deciding whether a cell phone is a necessity or not. Smiley Wink

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

Message 19 of 28
Teacher

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

who need a  blacklist when you have insurance and ebay.

Message 20 of 28
Master

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

 


eggypadua wrote:

who need a  blacklist when you have insurance and ebay.


 

Yes, IMO a blacklist would accomplish nothing for the consumer, who with the time required for due process of law is already going to have replaced the phone anyway. 

 

Maybe you can make an argument that it peripherally could help law enforcement/reduce crime by making it more difficult for criminals to communicate - if, as has already been said above, they actually worked in countries where they are in place.  But unless you are going to do the same thing for WiFi access/internet based communication it seems to me that there are simply too many alternatives to using a cellular network for a blacklist to have much impact.

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

Message 21 of 28
Expert

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?


hme83 wrote:

 


eggypadua wrote:

who need a  blacklist when you have insurance and ebay.


 

Yes, IMO a blacklist would accomplish nothing for the consumer, who with the time required for due process of law is already going to have replaced the phone anyway. 

 

Maybe you can make an argument that it peripherally could help law enforcement/reduce crime by making it more difficult for criminals to communicate - if, as has already been said above, they actually worked in countries where they are in place.  But unless you are going to do the same thing for WiFi access/internet based communication it seems to me that there are simply too many alternatives to using a cellular network for a blacklist to have much impact.


does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one

Message 22 of 28
Master

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

Message 23 of 28
Expert

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 


sorry there are a lot more important issues then a IMEI database that would need the money more - the affect of this would be minimal with no ROI. Would suspect that 95 percent of the phones that are claimed stolen are actually lost and no police report is every filed, even if a police report is filed it would be a misdemeanor report given what the cost of the phone is in the majority of the cases

Message 24 of 28
Master

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 


sorry there are a lot more important issues then a IMEI database that would need the money more - the affect of this would be minimal with no ROI. Would suspect that 95 percent of the phones that are claimed stolen are actually lost and no police report is every filed, even if a police report is filed it would be a misdemeanor report given what the cost of the phone is in the majority of the cases


Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

Message 25 of 28
Expert

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 


sorry there are a lot more important issues then a IMEI database that would need the money more - the affect of this would be minimal with no ROI. Would suspect that 95 percent of the phones that are claimed stolen are actually lost and no police report is every filed, even if a police report is filed it would be a misdemeanor report given what the cost of the phone is in the majority of the cases


Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 


there is no "good busines case" not profitable - The international database idea sounds good! But it does have obstacles to overcome, as many smaller networks claim that it would be too expensive to upgrade their equipment to support such a system.

 

My statement is based on common sense for ROI - why waste money on a system that has no major impact for law enformcement, sorry "stolen" phones are penny ante reports, not really worth it, the money is more need to in the fcets of law enforcement that can make a difference.

 

Bottom line - as is everything - if the end user does not considering kicking in to cover the cost, then it is not worth it. Even if the database ws federally mandated  the end user will pay for it in higher taxes or additional surcharges on the bill - take a look at your phone bill already for all the surcharges and taxes that already are on it, same with your paycheck.  

Message 26 of 28
Master

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 

Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 


there is no "good busines case" not profitable - The international database idea sounds good! But it does have obstacles to overcome, as many smaller networks claim that it would be too expensive to upgrade their equipment to support such a system.

 

My statement is based on common sense for ROI - why waste money on a system that has no major impact for law enformcement, sorry "stolen" phones are penny ante reports, not really worth it, the money is more need to in the fcets of law enforcement that can make a difference.

 

Bottom line - as is everything - if the end user does not considering kicking in to cover the cost, then it is not worth it. Even if the database ws federally mandated  the end user will pay for it in higher taxes or additional surcharges on the bill - take a look at your phone bill already for all the surcharges and taxes that already are on it, same with your paycheck.  


Our position is the same.  Just surprised by your sudden about face since a few posts above you seemed to believe developing this kind of database could be a lucrative business venture for your company. Smiley Wink

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

Message 27 of 28
Highlighted
Expert

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 

Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 


there is no "good busines case" not profitable - The international database idea sounds good! But it does have obstacles to overcome, as many smaller networks claim that it would be too expensive to upgrade their equipment to support such a system.

 

My statement is based on common sense for ROI - why waste money on a system that has no major impact for law enformcement, sorry "stolen" phones are penny ante reports, not really worth it, the money is more need to in the fcets of law enforcement that can make a difference.

 

Bottom line - as is everything - if the end user does not considering kicking in to cover the cost, then it is not worth it. Even if the database ws federally mandated  the end user will pay for it in higher taxes or additional surcharges on the bill - take a look at your phone bill already for all the surcharges and taxes that already are on it, same with your paycheck.  


Our position is the same.  Just surprised by your sudden about face since a few posts above you seemed to believe developing this kind of database could be a lucrative business venture for your company. Smiley Wink

 


like I said, took about a 30 minute meeting with the planners to figure out the ROI would not be worth it since so few carriers will join in and other carriers don't have the infrastructure to support it, unless the goverment would foot the bill 100 percent, then charge the end user back to recover all the costs plus a profit. Make it a rule not to back losing propositions for the company. That is why I hire the best people for the job, I tend to think something is a money maker when it is not. They tend to keep me from making a mistake that would bankrupt the company.

 

Only thin we really disgreed on was who would be up the bill for such service..if it happens the end user should foot the bill

Message 28 of 28
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