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Posted Mar 28, 2011
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Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

"For those who are unaware, the IMEI is an International Mobile Equipment Identity number which is unique to each individual mobile phone it is assigned to. It's also how providers identify your device on their network.

Europe has an IMEI Blacklist, as well as Australia... so that when a phone is reported lost or stolen, it can be blocked from use on other networks, but in North America, no such list exists. North American carriers claim that cell phone theft is not a big deal in North America, and you seriously have to wonder what drugs they are under the influence of.


Regardless of the cost of your handset, it's really sad to me that something that could be implemented so easily, is being ignored."

 

--iPhonediscussioner DRTigerlilly

"For those who are unaware, the IMEI is an International Mobile Equipment Identity number which is unique to each individual mobile phone it is assigned to. It's also how providers identify your device on their network.

Europe has an IMEI Blacklist, as well as Australia... so that when a phone is reported lost or stolen, it can be blocked from use on other networks, but in North America, no such list exists. North American carriers claim that cell phone theft is not a big deal in North America, and you seriously have to wonder what drugs they are under the influence of.


Regardless of the cost of your handset, it's really sad to me that something that could be implemented so easily, is being ignored."

 

--iPhonediscussioner DRTigerlilly

Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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Mar 28, 2011 11:06:30 AM
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Playing "Devil"s Advocate".

What is to prevent a person from calling in and claiming a phone is stolen, buy not really the case.

 ie, a person in a messy divorce calls in claiming the other persons phone is stolen, just to cause them grief. A person does it to get back at a "friend" just to be funny. A prankster doing it just to cause mayhem.

There has to be safeguard's in place to stop these type's of situation's.

On top of that, the carrier's won't make any money off the program, so why do it. It's all in the bottom line.

 

Playing "Devil"s Advocate".

What is to prevent a person from calling in and claiming a phone is stolen, buy not really the case.

 ie, a person in a messy divorce calls in claiming the other persons phone is stolen, just to cause them grief. A person does it to get back at a "friend" just to be funny. A prankster doing it just to cause mayhem.

There has to be safeguard's in place to stop these type's of situation's.

On top of that, the carrier's won't make any money off the program, so why do it. It's all in the bottom line.

 

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Mar 28, 2011 1:33:26 PM
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Who's to say they couldn't make any money off of it? Eg: Blacklisting Fee....

Either way I believe it is a serious issue, and no offense, but safeguards and security procedures all sound like a bunch of excuses to me. If it is possible in other countries than it is possible in the US as well. If a person has the box, receipt, proper paperwork, police report, and identification to prove that the merchandise is indeed in THEIR name... blacklisting your own STOLEN property should not be a problem. I believe it is too easy for thieves to get away with just popping out a sim card and claiming stolen property as their own. It is considered larceny. It IS a crime, and in my opinion it is treated too lightly. Mobile phones are becoming our life lines and major necessities in todays business world, and even though insurance is an option, customers should have a peace of mind in knowing that their property is protect. It may even decrease violent thefts, being that thieves would no longer be able to make much use of the property that is reported stolen. Something so simple can be of such good benefit, and it is sad that US carriers are not willing to give their customers that additional support. Bottom line.

Who's to say they couldn't make any money off of it? Eg: Blacklisting Fee....

Either way I believe it is a serious issue, and no offense, but safeguards and security procedures all sound like a bunch of excuses to me. If it is possible in other countries than it is possible in the US as well. If a person has the box, receipt, proper paperwork, police report, and identification to prove that the merchandise is indeed in THEIR name... blacklisting your own STOLEN property should not be a problem. I believe it is too easy for thieves to get away with just popping out a sim card and claiming stolen property as their own. It is considered larceny. It IS a crime, and in my opinion it is treated too lightly. Mobile phones are becoming our life lines and major necessities in todays business world, and even though insurance is an option, customers should have a peace of mind in knowing that their property is protect. It may even decrease violent thefts, being that thieves would no longer be able to make much use of the property that is reported stolen. Something so simple can be of such good benefit, and it is sad that US carriers are not willing to give their customers that additional support. Bottom line.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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Mar 28, 2011 2:15:25 PM
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CDMA phones have an ESN blacklist for stolen or lost phones.
Probably from mobile, maybe. Smiley Happy
CDMA phones have an ESN blacklist for stolen or lost phones.
Probably from mobile, maybe. :)
Posted by a mobile device.

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Mar 28, 2011 2:42:43 PM
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Thank you for posting. How affective is it, and what is the process if you don't mind?

 

I have researched the difference between GSM and CDMA technology, and I have found this website which explains each one: CDMA vs. GSM 

 

From what I have read, it is my understanding that GSM is the international standard and that CDMA devices are limited and the coverage is limited as well. 

Thank you for posting. How affective is it, and what is the process if you don't mind?

 

I have researched the difference between GSM and CDMA technology, and I have found this website which explains each one: CDMA vs. GSM 

 

From what I have read, it is my understanding that GSM is the international standard and that CDMA devices are limited and the coverage is limited as well. 

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Mar 28, 2011 3:35:30 PM
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I am not expert by any means on the blacklist for CDMA phones. I know there are users well versed in it on the Verizon Wireless community. http://community.vzw.com

Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular, Cricket are CDMA carriers.
Probably from mobile, maybe. Smiley Happy
I am not expert by any means on the blacklist for CDMA phones. I know there are users well versed in it on the Verizon Wireless community. http://community.vzw.com

Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular, Cricket are CDMA carriers.
Probably from mobile, maybe. :)
Posted by a mobile device.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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Apr 2, 2011 8:12:43 AM
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ACE - Master

 


LatoyaTrena wrote:

Who's to say they couldn't make any money off of it? Eg: Blacklisting Fee....

Either way I believe it is a serious issue, and no offense, but safeguards and security procedures all sound like a bunch of excuses to me. If it is possible in other countries than it is possible in the US as well. If a person has the box, receipt, proper paperwork, police report, and identification to prove that the merchandise is indeed in THEIR name... blacklisting your own STOLEN property should not be a problem. I believe it is too easy for thieves to get away with just popping out a sim card and claiming stolen property as their own. It is considered larceny. It IS a crime, and in my opinion it is treated too lightly. Mobile phones are becoming our life lines and major necessities in todays business world, and even though insurance is an option, customers should have a peace of mind in knowing that their property is protect. It may even decrease violent thefts, being that thieves would no longer be able to make much use of the property that is reported stolen. Something so simple can be of such good benefit, and it is sad that US carriers are not willing to give their customers that additional support. Bottom line.


 

I don't know how it operates in other countries and if it were optional for the customer, I could possibly support the concept for here in the US; but as a customer I don't reallly want to pay for such a thing within my monthly fees from the wireless service provider.  Personally, I don't see this as being a large issue, and so I would not choose to pay for the added "protection" that you advocate. 

 

I certainly don't see a cell phone as being a necessity of life, and they are relatively easy to replace and can be as expensive or inexpensive as the user chooses.  Plus as you state, the user already has available options to insure against the risk of equipment loss if they feel it is financially wise to do so.  So IMHO, the added value of such a system wouldn't outweigh it's cost and the inconvenience to those who wish to sell/gift their own personal property (cell phone) to someone else without encountering a bunch of encumbrances to being able to do so. Smiley Happy

 

Plus I doubt that many theives commit violent acts to steal only a cell phone - so I doubt it would cut down on violent crime; and I really don't want my tax dollars spent for the police support for the blacklist reporting that you suggest either.

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


LatoyaTrena wrote:

Who's to say they couldn't make any money off of it? Eg: Blacklisting Fee....

Either way I believe it is a serious issue, and no offense, but safeguards and security procedures all sound like a bunch of excuses to me. If it is possible in other countries than it is possible in the US as well. If a person has the box, receipt, proper paperwork, police report, and identification to prove that the merchandise is indeed in THEIR name... blacklisting your own STOLEN property should not be a problem. I believe it is too easy for thieves to get away with just popping out a sim card and claiming stolen property as their own. It is considered larceny. It IS a crime, and in my opinion it is treated too lightly. Mobile phones are becoming our life lines and major necessities in todays business world, and even though insurance is an option, customers should have a peace of mind in knowing that their property is protect. It may even decrease violent thefts, being that thieves would no longer be able to make much use of the property that is reported stolen. Something so simple can be of such good benefit, and it is sad that US carriers are not willing to give their customers that additional support. Bottom line.


 

I don't know how it operates in other countries and if it were optional for the customer, I could possibly support the concept for here in the US; but as a customer I don't reallly want to pay for such a thing within my monthly fees from the wireless service provider.  Personally, I don't see this as being a large issue, and so I would not choose to pay for the added "protection" that you advocate. 

 

I certainly don't see a cell phone as being a necessity of life, and they are relatively easy to replace and can be as expensive or inexpensive as the user chooses.  Plus as you state, the user already has available options to insure against the risk of equipment loss if they feel it is financially wise to do so.  So IMHO, the added value of such a system wouldn't outweigh it's cost and the inconvenience to those who wish to sell/gift their own personal property (cell phone) to someone else without encountering a bunch of encumbrances to being able to do so. Smiley Happy

 

Plus I doubt that many theives commit violent acts to steal only a cell phone - so I doubt it would cut down on violent crime; and I really don't want my tax dollars spent for the police support for the blacklist reporting that you suggest either.

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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Apr 14, 2011 1:37:14 AM
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there's no need for it. even with ESN blocks for CDMA there are ways to change the ESN which rids the need of a blacklist.
there's no need for it. even with ESN blocks for CDMA there are ways to change the ESN which rids the need of a blacklist.
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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Apr 14, 2011 3:10:43 AM
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ACE - Master

 


JFizDaWiz wrote:
there's no need for it. even with ESN blocks for CDMA there are ways to change the ESN which rids the need of a blacklist.

 

To me it seems that if the issue is large enough in a user's mind that they want to minimize the potential, just choose CDMA service - where at least the device itself does have to be provisioned on the network by it's ESN number.  For the most part that accomplishes the same thing as a "blacklist" would (with the criminal act of changing an ESN excepted, of course Smiley Wink ).

 

I have no experience with Verizon or CDMA whatsoever, but I would have to believe that if you report your phone as "stolen" to Verizon, they won't reactivate it on their network - just like at&t won't reactivate the SIM on theirs unless YOU report the SIM as being "found".  And I don't know whether a blacklist truly exists among US CDMA carriers (I've always been told that no blacklist exists in the US whatsoever); but since it is comparatively difficult to use another carrier's device with CDMA service anyway, that effectively achieves the same thing to a large degree - at least imho.

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


JFizDaWiz wrote:
there's no need for it. even with ESN blocks for CDMA there are ways to change the ESN which rids the need of a blacklist.

 

To me it seems that if the issue is large enough in a user's mind that they want to minimize the potential, just choose CDMA service - where at least the device itself does have to be provisioned on the network by it's ESN number.  For the most part that accomplishes the same thing as a "blacklist" would (with the criminal act of changing an ESN excepted, of course Smiley Wink ).

 

I have no experience with Verizon or CDMA whatsoever, but I would have to believe that if you report your phone as "stolen" to Verizon, they won't reactivate it on their network - just like at&t won't reactivate the SIM on theirs unless YOU report the SIM as being "found".  And I don't know whether a blacklist truly exists among US CDMA carriers (I've always been told that no blacklist exists in the US whatsoever); but since it is comparatively difficult to use another carrier's device with CDMA service anyway, that effectively achieves the same thing to a large degree - at least imho.

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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Apr 14, 2011 3:20:47 AM
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hme83 wrote:

 


JFizDaWiz wrote:
there's no need for it. even with ESN blocks for CDMA there are ways to change the ESN which rids the need of a blacklist.

 

To me it seems that if the issue is large enough in a user's mind that they want to minimize the potential, just choose CDMA service - where at least the device itself does have to be provisioned on the network by it's ESN number.  For the most part that accomplishes the same thing as a "blacklist" would (with the criminal act of changing an ESN excepted, of course Smiley Wink ).

 

I have no experience with Verizon or CDMA whatsoever, but I would have to believe that if you report your phone as "stolen" to Verizon, they won't reactivate it on their network - just like at&t won't reactivate the SIM on theirs unless YOU report the SIM as being "found".  And I don't know whether a blacklist truly exists among US CDMA carriers (I've always been told that no blacklist exists in the US whatsoever); but since it is comparatively difficult to use another carrier's device with CDMA service anyway, that effectively achieves the same thing to a large degree - at least imho.


actually verizon will reactivate a phone.

 

There is no blacklist within the US, the other countries blacklists are maintained by their law enforcement organizations not by the carriers. Be it CDMA or GSm a blacklist is not a deterent for the phone being reactivated, nor is it difficult to clone a imei or esn id, there are thriving blackmarket economies that do just that to resell "stolen" phones to the underground element - and there is a great demand for throw away phones.

 

I believe someone earlier in the thread mentioned something about paying for the service - curious what people are will to pay monthly so they can keep their "stolen" phone on the blacklist - might be a profitable project.


hme83 wrote:

 


JFizDaWiz wrote:
there's no need for it. even with ESN blocks for CDMA there are ways to change the ESN which rids the need of a blacklist.

 

To me it seems that if the issue is large enough in a user's mind that they want to minimize the potential, just choose CDMA service - where at least the device itself does have to be provisioned on the network by it's ESN number.  For the most part that accomplishes the same thing as a "blacklist" would (with the criminal act of changing an ESN excepted, of course Smiley Wink ).

 

I have no experience with Verizon or CDMA whatsoever, but I would have to believe that if you report your phone as "stolen" to Verizon, they won't reactivate it on their network - just like at&t won't reactivate the SIM on theirs unless YOU report the SIM as being "found".  And I don't know whether a blacklist truly exists among US CDMA carriers (I've always been told that no blacklist exists in the US whatsoever); but since it is comparatively difficult to use another carrier's device with CDMA service anyway, that effectively achieves the same thing to a large degree - at least imho.


actually verizon will reactivate a phone.

 

There is no blacklist within the US, the other countries blacklists are maintained by their law enforcement organizations not by the carriers. Be it CDMA or GSm a blacklist is not a deterent for the phone being reactivated, nor is it difficult to clone a imei or esn id, there are thriving blackmarket economies that do just that to resell "stolen" phones to the underground element - and there is a great demand for throw away phones.

 

I believe someone earlier in the thread mentioned something about paying for the service - curious what people are will to pay monthly so they can keep their "stolen" phone on the blacklist - might be a profitable project.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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Apr 14, 2011 4:37:15 AM
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ACE - Master

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


JFizDaWiz wrote:
there's no need for it. even with ESN blocks for CDMA there are ways to change the ESN which rids the need of a blacklist.

 

To me it seems that if the issue is large enough in a user's mind that they want to minimize the potential, just choose CDMA service - where at least the device itself does have to be provisioned on the network by it's ESN number.  For the most part that accomplishes the same thing as a "blacklist" would (with the criminal act of changing an ESN excepted, of course Smiley Wink ).

 

I have no experience with Verizon or CDMA whatsoever, but I would have to believe that if you report your phone as "stolen" to Verizon, they won't reactivate it on their network - just like at&t won't reactivate the SIM on theirs unless YOU report the SIM as being "found".  And I don't know whether a blacklist truly exists among US CDMA carriers (I've always been told that no blacklist exists in the US whatsoever); but since it is comparatively difficult to use another carrier's device with CDMA service anyway, that effectively achieves the same thing to a large degree - at least imho.


actually verizon will reactivate a phone.

 

There is no blacklist within the US, the other countries blacklists are maintained by their law enforcement organizations not by the carriers. Be it CDMA or GSm a blacklist is not a deterent for the phone being reactivated, nor is it difficult to clone a imei or esn id, there are thriving blackmarket economies that do just that to resell "stolen" phones to the underground element - and there is a great demand for throw away phones.

 

I believe someone earlier in the thread mentioned something about paying for the service - curious what people are will to pay monthly so they can keep their "stolen" phone on the blacklist - might be a profitable project.


 

I *would* expect Verizon will reactivate a "found" phone if the original user who reported it stolen requests that it be reinstated.

 

But are you saying that a different user can set up service with Verizon using a previously reported as "stolen" ESN?  If so - thanks for the clarification. Smiley Happy

 

lol.  And just in case my position wasn't clear - I would be willing to pay $0.00 for a blacklist option.

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


JFizDaWiz wrote:
there's no need for it. even with ESN blocks for CDMA there are ways to change the ESN which rids the need of a blacklist.

 

To me it seems that if the issue is large enough in a user's mind that they want to minimize the potential, just choose CDMA service - where at least the device itself does have to be provisioned on the network by it's ESN number.  For the most part that accomplishes the same thing as a "blacklist" would (with the criminal act of changing an ESN excepted, of course Smiley Wink ).

 

I have no experience with Verizon or CDMA whatsoever, but I would have to believe that if you report your phone as "stolen" to Verizon, they won't reactivate it on their network - just like at&t won't reactivate the SIM on theirs unless YOU report the SIM as being "found".  And I don't know whether a blacklist truly exists among US CDMA carriers (I've always been told that no blacklist exists in the US whatsoever); but since it is comparatively difficult to use another carrier's device with CDMA service anyway, that effectively achieves the same thing to a large degree - at least imho.


actually verizon will reactivate a phone.

 

There is no blacklist within the US, the other countries blacklists are maintained by their law enforcement organizations not by the carriers. Be it CDMA or GSm a blacklist is not a deterent for the phone being reactivated, nor is it difficult to clone a imei or esn id, there are thriving blackmarket economies that do just that to resell "stolen" phones to the underground element - and there is a great demand for throw away phones.

 

I believe someone earlier in the thread mentioned something about paying for the service - curious what people are will to pay monthly so they can keep their "stolen" phone on the blacklist - might be a profitable project.


 

I *would* expect Verizon will reactivate a "found" phone if the original user who reported it stolen requests that it be reinstated.

 

But are you saying that a different user can set up service with Verizon using a previously reported as "stolen" ESN?  If so - thanks for the clarification. Smiley Happy

 

lol.  And just in case my position wasn't clear - I would be willing to pay $0.00 for a blacklist option.

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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Apr 15, 2011 3:37:50 AM
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hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


JFizDaWiz wrote:
there's no need for it. even with ESN blocks for CDMA there are ways to change the ESN which rids the need of a blacklist.

 

To me it seems that if the issue is large enough in a user's mind that they want to minimize the potential, just choose CDMA service - where at least the device itself does have to be provisioned on the network by it's ESN number.  For the most part that accomplishes the same thing as a "blacklist" would (with the criminal act of changing an ESN excepted, of course Smiley Wink ).

 

I have no experience with Verizon or CDMA whatsoever, but I would have to believe that if you report your phone as "stolen" to Verizon, they won't reactivate it on their network - just like at&t won't reactivate the SIM on theirs unless YOU report the SIM as being "found".  And I don't know whether a blacklist truly exists among US CDMA carriers (I've always been told that no blacklist exists in the US whatsoever); but since it is comparatively difficult to use another carrier's device with CDMA service anyway, that effectively achieves the same thing to a large degree - at least imho.


actually verizon will reactivate a phone.

 

There is no blacklist within the US, the other countries blacklists are maintained by their law enforcement organizations not by the carriers. Be it CDMA or GSm a blacklist is not a deterent for the phone being reactivated, nor is it difficult to clone a imei or esn id, there are thriving blackmarket economies that do just that to resell "stolen" phones to the underground element - and there is a great demand for throw away phones.

 

I believe someone earlier in the thread mentioned something about paying for the service - curious what people are will to pay monthly so they can keep their "stolen" phone on the blacklist - might be a profitable project.


 

I *would* expect Verizon will reactivate a "found" phone if the original user who reported it stolen requests that it be reinstated.

 

But are you saying that a different user can set up service with Verizon using a previously reported as "stolen" ESN?  If so - thanks for the clarification. Smiley Happy

 

lol.  And just in case my position wasn't clear - I would be willing to pay $0.00 for a blacklist option.


they will reactivate the phone - have had it happen on lost / stolen verizon phone that we issue for business use.

 

As far as a blacklist option - someone has to foot the bill for all the work required to setup and maintaince a nationwide database, support the hardware to run it and maintain it, give access to it - after all the nationwide list of auto vin numbers database is supported by your taxes and license / registration costs. Same with criminal checks - ncic, interpol and the various world wide criminal information networks are maintained by association fees, etc - bottom line someone has to end up footing the bill - more then likely if one ever does becomes federally mandated the end user will foot it by additional monthly reoccuring charges on your bill.


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


JFizDaWiz wrote:
there's no need for it. even with ESN blocks for CDMA there are ways to change the ESN which rids the need of a blacklist.

 

To me it seems that if the issue is large enough in a user's mind that they want to minimize the potential, just choose CDMA service - where at least the device itself does have to be provisioned on the network by it's ESN number.  For the most part that accomplishes the same thing as a "blacklist" would (with the criminal act of changing an ESN excepted, of course Smiley Wink ).

 

I have no experience with Verizon or CDMA whatsoever, but I would have to believe that if you report your phone as "stolen" to Verizon, they won't reactivate it on their network - just like at&t won't reactivate the SIM on theirs unless YOU report the SIM as being "found".  And I don't know whether a blacklist truly exists among US CDMA carriers (I've always been told that no blacklist exists in the US whatsoever); but since it is comparatively difficult to use another carrier's device with CDMA service anyway, that effectively achieves the same thing to a large degree - at least imho.


actually verizon will reactivate a phone.

 

There is no blacklist within the US, the other countries blacklists are maintained by their law enforcement organizations not by the carriers. Be it CDMA or GSm a blacklist is not a deterent for the phone being reactivated, nor is it difficult to clone a imei or esn id, there are thriving blackmarket economies that do just that to resell "stolen" phones to the underground element - and there is a great demand for throw away phones.

 

I believe someone earlier in the thread mentioned something about paying for the service - curious what people are will to pay monthly so they can keep their "stolen" phone on the blacklist - might be a profitable project.


 

I *would* expect Verizon will reactivate a "found" phone if the original user who reported it stolen requests that it be reinstated.

 

But are you saying that a different user can set up service with Verizon using a previously reported as "stolen" ESN?  If so - thanks for the clarification. Smiley Happy

 

lol.  And just in case my position wasn't clear - I would be willing to pay $0.00 for a blacklist option.


they will reactivate the phone - have had it happen on lost / stolen verizon phone that we issue for business use.

 

As far as a blacklist option - someone has to foot the bill for all the work required to setup and maintaince a nationwide database, support the hardware to run it and maintain it, give access to it - after all the nationwide list of auto vin numbers database is supported by your taxes and license / registration costs. Same with criminal checks - ncic, interpol and the various world wide criminal information networks are maintained by association fees, etc - bottom line someone has to end up footing the bill - more then likely if one ever does becomes federally mandated the end user will foot it by additional monthly reoccuring charges on your bill.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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ACE - Master

 


wingrider01 wrote:
they will reactivate the phone - have had it happen on lost / stolen verizon phone that we issue for business use.

 

As far as a blacklist option - someone has to foot the bill for all the work required to setup and maintaince a nationwide database, support the hardware to run it and maintain it, give access to it - after all the nationwide list of auto vin numbers database is supported by your taxes and license / registration costs. Same with criminal checks - ncic, interpol and the various world wide criminal information networks are maintained by association fees, etc - bottom line someone has to end up footing the bill - more then likely if one ever does becomes federally mandated the end user will foot it by additional monthly reoccuring charges on your bill.


 

Your company has reactivated a phone on Verizon that they had previously reported as being lost/stolen?  Or some completely unrelated party has been able to do so?  And if so - how did your company know that had happened?  Just curious as to the specifics since that seems to contradict what was indicated earlier in the thread re: Verizon (although since a link to a specific thread wasn't provided I didn't spend time searching Verizon's website to read the discussion that was referenced).

 

To your second paragraph - my point exactly.  Nothing is "free" - either the individuals who desire the service pay for it or we all do in the end.  There are already paid methods in place for specific users to minimize the impact of equipment loss (i.e. insurance), so I don't see that a national blacklist will accomplish much of anything. I'd rather have my revenue $'s used to enhance the network (carrier supported blacklist) or my tax $'s spent on more critical services (government supported blacklist).

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


wingrider01 wrote:
they will reactivate the phone - have had it happen on lost / stolen verizon phone that we issue for business use.

 

As far as a blacklist option - someone has to foot the bill for all the work required to setup and maintaince a nationwide database, support the hardware to run it and maintain it, give access to it - after all the nationwide list of auto vin numbers database is supported by your taxes and license / registration costs. Same with criminal checks - ncic, interpol and the various world wide criminal information networks are maintained by association fees, etc - bottom line someone has to end up footing the bill - more then likely if one ever does becomes federally mandated the end user will foot it by additional monthly reoccuring charges on your bill.


 

Your company has reactivated a phone on Verizon that they had previously reported as being lost/stolen?  Or some completely unrelated party has been able to do so?  And if so - how did your company know that had happened?  Just curious as to the specifics since that seems to contradict what was indicated earlier in the thread re: Verizon (although since a link to a specific thread wasn't provided I didn't spend time searching Verizon's website to read the discussion that was referenced).

 

To your second paragraph - my point exactly.  Nothing is "free" - either the individuals who desire the service pay for it or we all do in the end.  There are already paid methods in place for specific users to minimize the impact of equipment loss (i.e. insurance), so I don't see that a national blacklist will accomplish much of anything. I'd rather have my revenue $'s used to enhance the network (carrier supported blacklist) or my tax $'s spent on more critical services (government supported blacklist).

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
they will reactivate the phone - have had it happen on lost / stolen verizon phone that we issue for business use.

 

As far as a blacklist option - someone has to foot the bill for all the work required to setup and maintaince a nationwide database, support the hardware to run it and maintain it, give access to it - after all the nationwide list of auto vin numbers database is supported by your taxes and license / registration costs. Same with criminal checks - ncic, interpol and the various world wide criminal information networks are maintained by association fees, etc - bottom line someone has to end up footing the bill - more then likely if one ever does becomes federally mandated the end user will foot it by additional monthly reoccuring charges on your bill.


 

Your company has reactivated a phone on Verizon that they had previously reported as being lost/stolen?  Or some completely unrelated party has been able to do so?  And if so - how did your company know that had happened?  Just curious as to the specifics since that seems to contradict what was indicated earlier in the thread re: Verizon (although since a link to a specific thread wasn't provided I didn't spend time searching Verizon's website to read the discussion that was referenced).

 

To your second paragraph - my point exactly.  Nothing is "free" - either the individuals who desire the service pay for it or we all do in the end.  There are already paid methods in place for specific users to minimize the impact of equipment loss (i.e. insurance), so I don't see that a national blacklist will accomplish much of anything. I'd rather have my revenue $'s used to enhance the network (carrier supported blacklist) or my tax $'s spent on more critical services (government supported blacklist).


The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

 

Either way you look at it - you will end up paying for it - federal or local carrier supplied, the key point is the a carrier supported list is ineffective unless it is national and supported by every carrier and manufacturer of the devices, it is simpler ffor the id number to be supplied to the national database by the manufacturer of the device for entry into teh archives with a flag for the carrier, but the issue here is carrier unlocked phones - add to the simple fact that cloning techniques are available to those that really want to use the phone. The blacklist would only handle the the "casual" phones

 

Botom line - federal or carrier supported, in some method the user will end up paying for it in the end, if federal it will be through and additional line item on your bill for goverment charges, if carrier it will be in the base cost of the service for the phone, a percentage increase in your carrier service charges


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
they will reactivate the phone - have had it happen on lost / stolen verizon phone that we issue for business use.

 

As far as a blacklist option - someone has to foot the bill for all the work required to setup and maintaince a nationwide database, support the hardware to run it and maintain it, give access to it - after all the nationwide list of auto vin numbers database is supported by your taxes and license / registration costs. Same with criminal checks - ncic, interpol and the various world wide criminal information networks are maintained by association fees, etc - bottom line someone has to end up footing the bill - more then likely if one ever does becomes federally mandated the end user will foot it by additional monthly reoccuring charges on your bill.


 

Your company has reactivated a phone on Verizon that they had previously reported as being lost/stolen?  Or some completely unrelated party has been able to do so?  And if so - how did your company know that had happened?  Just curious as to the specifics since that seems to contradict what was indicated earlier in the thread re: Verizon (although since a link to a specific thread wasn't provided I didn't spend time searching Verizon's website to read the discussion that was referenced).

 

To your second paragraph - my point exactly.  Nothing is "free" - either the individuals who desire the service pay for it or we all do in the end.  There are already paid methods in place for specific users to minimize the impact of equipment loss (i.e. insurance), so I don't see that a national blacklist will accomplish much of anything. I'd rather have my revenue $'s used to enhance the network (carrier supported blacklist) or my tax $'s spent on more critical services (government supported blacklist).


The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

 

Either way you look at it - you will end up paying for it - federal or local carrier supplied, the key point is the a carrier supported list is ineffective unless it is national and supported by every carrier and manufacturer of the devices, it is simpler ffor the id number to be supplied to the national database by the manufacturer of the device for entry into teh archives with a flag for the carrier, but the issue here is carrier unlocked phones - add to the simple fact that cloning techniques are available to those that really want to use the phone. The blacklist would only handle the the "casual" phones

 

Botom line - federal or carrier supported, in some method the user will end up paying for it in the end, if federal it will be through and additional line item on your bill for goverment charges, if carrier it will be in the base cost of the service for the phone, a percentage increase in your carrier service charges

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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ACE - Master

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 


as of year end financails we have 18 different divisions that deal with different facets of technology, from medical, law enforcement, customer service both live and online to name just a few. Have adedicated marketing department that is always on the look out for nee ideas that will increase the corporate net work and the financial income of the people that work in the company. Alway on the look out for something that will make myself and my people money. This might be a interesting thing and lucrative for the company.

 

Cell phone cloning is not something new - it has been around for years... the market in stolen, hard to trace phones is very lucrative


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 


as of year end financails we have 18 different divisions that deal with different facets of technology, from medical, law enforcement, customer service both live and online to name just a few. Have adedicated marketing department that is always on the look out for nee ideas that will increase the corporate net work and the financial income of the people that work in the company. Alway on the look out for something that will make myself and my people money. This might be a interesting thing and lucrative for the company.

 

Cell phone cloning is not something new - it has been around for years... the market in stolen, hard to trace phones is very lucrative

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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ACE - Master

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 


as of year end financails we have 18 different divisions that deal with different facets of technology, from medical, law enforcement, customer service both live and online to name just a few. Have adedicated marketing department that is always on the look out for nee ideas that will increase the corporate net work and the financial income of the people that work in the company. Alway on the look out for something that will make myself and my people money. This might be a interesting thing and lucrative for the company.

 

Cell phone cloning is not something new - it has been around for years... the market in stolen, hard to trace phones is very lucrative


Nothing wrong with taking a hard look at ways to grow the business and new product/service line possibilities. Smiley Happy  Just because as a consumer, I pesonally don't feel it's something worth paying for doesn't mean there isn't money to be made at it.  lol.

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 


as of year end financails we have 18 different divisions that deal with different facets of technology, from medical, law enforcement, customer service both live and online to name just a few. Have adedicated marketing department that is always on the look out for nee ideas that will increase the corporate net work and the financial income of the people that work in the company. Alway on the look out for something that will make myself and my people money. This might be a interesting thing and lucrative for the company.

 

Cell phone cloning is not something new - it has been around for years... the market in stolen, hard to trace phones is very lucrative


Nothing wrong with taking a hard look at ways to grow the business and new product/service line possibilities. Smiley Happy  Just because as a consumer, I pesonally don't feel it's something worth paying for doesn't mean there isn't money to be made at it.  lol.

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 


as of year end financails we have 18 different divisions that deal with different facets of technology, from medical, law enforcement, customer service both live and online to name just a few. Have adedicated marketing department that is always on the look out for nee ideas that will increase the corporate net work and the financial income of the people that work in the company. Alway on the look out for something that will make myself and my people money. This might be a interesting thing and lucrative for the company.

 

Cell phone cloning is not something new - it has been around for years... the market in stolen, hard to trace phones is very lucrative


Nothing wrong with taking a hard look at ways to grow the business and new product/service line possibilities. Smiley Happy  Just because as a consumer, I pesonally don't feel it's something worth paying for doesn't mean there isn't money to be made at it.  lol.

 


thre are a lot of things I don;t think are worth paying for, but still have to - if and when this ever comes about either at carrier envolvement or as a federal govemenent mandate you can bet your bottom dollar you will be paying for it, either as a surcharge by the goverment or a recovery chanrge by the carrier.

 

 

Thing is, these blacklsts are mandated in europe in some countries - and they don;t work over there either, so eother way a stolen phone will still end up being used


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
The phone was reported stolen, it was reactivated by a individual who was then arrested by law enforcement for controlled substance abuse and trafficking, the serial number and etched id number was on file in the police report, we got lucky that one of my people was working on a system for evidence tracking for the agency in question - a complete fluke. The phone was active and in use when it was recovered.

................


Interesting - thanks for providing more details re: your company's experience re: a stolen phone with Verizon.

 


as of year end financails we have 18 different divisions that deal with different facets of technology, from medical, law enforcement, customer service both live and online to name just a few. Have adedicated marketing department that is always on the look out for nee ideas that will increase the corporate net work and the financial income of the people that work in the company. Alway on the look out for something that will make myself and my people money. This might be a interesting thing and lucrative for the company.

 

Cell phone cloning is not something new - it has been around for years... the market in stolen, hard to trace phones is very lucrative


Nothing wrong with taking a hard look at ways to grow the business and new product/service line possibilities. Smiley Happy  Just because as a consumer, I pesonally don't feel it's something worth paying for doesn't mean there isn't money to be made at it.  lol.

 


thre are a lot of things I don;t think are worth paying for, but still have to - if and when this ever comes about either at carrier envolvement or as a federal govemenent mandate you can bet your bottom dollar you will be paying for it, either as a surcharge by the goverment or a recovery chanrge by the carrier.

 

 

Thing is, these blacklsts are mandated in europe in some countries - and they don;t work over there either, so eother way a stolen phone will still end up being used

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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ACE - Master

 


wingrider01 wrote:
thre are a lot of things I don;t think are worth paying for, but still have to - if and when this ever comes about either at carrier envolvement or as a federal govemenent mandate you can bet your bottom dollar you will be paying for it, either as a surcharge by the goverment or a recovery chanrge by the carrier.

 

 

Thing is, these blacklsts are mandated in europe in some countries - and they don;t work over there either, so eother way a stolen phone will still end up being used


True - however, fortunately we have the luxury of deciding whether a cell phone is a necessity or not. Smiley Wink

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


wingrider01 wrote:
thre are a lot of things I don;t think are worth paying for, but still have to - if and when this ever comes about either at carrier envolvement or as a federal govemenent mandate you can bet your bottom dollar you will be paying for it, either as a surcharge by the goverment or a recovery chanrge by the carrier.

 

 

Thing is, these blacklsts are mandated in europe in some countries - and they don;t work over there either, so eother way a stolen phone will still end up being used


True - however, fortunately we have the luxury of deciding whether a cell phone is a necessity or not. Smiley Wink

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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who need a  blacklist when you have insurance and ebay.

who need a  blacklist when you have insurance and ebay.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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ACE - Master
Edited by hme83 on Apr 20, 2011 at 4:13:07 AM

 


eggypadua wrote:

who need a  blacklist when you have insurance and ebay.


 

Yes, IMO a blacklist would accomplish nothing for the consumer, who with the time required for due process of law is already going to have replaced the phone anyway. 

 

Maybe you can make an argument that it peripherally could help law enforcement/reduce crime by making it more difficult for criminals to communicate - if, as has already been said above, they actually worked in countries where they are in place.  But unless you are going to do the same thing for WiFi access/internet based communication it seems to me that there are simply too many alternatives to using a cellular network for a blacklist to have much impact.

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


eggypadua wrote:

who need a  blacklist when you have insurance and ebay.


 

Yes, IMO a blacklist would accomplish nothing for the consumer, who with the time required for due process of law is already going to have replaced the phone anyway. 

 

Maybe you can make an argument that it peripherally could help law enforcement/reduce crime by making it more difficult for criminals to communicate - if, as has already been said above, they actually worked in countries where they are in place.  But unless you are going to do the same thing for WiFi access/internet based communication it seems to me that there are simply too many alternatives to using a cellular network for a blacklist to have much impact.

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

[ Edited ]
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Edited by wingrider01 on Apr 20, 2011 at 7:51:40 AM

hme83 wrote:

 


eggypadua wrote:

who need a  blacklist when you have insurance and ebay.


 

Yes, IMO a blacklist would accomplish nothing for the consumer, who with the time required for due process of law is already going to have replaced the phone anyway. 

 

Maybe you can make an argument that it peripherally could help law enforcement/reduce crime by making it more difficult for criminals to communicate - if, as has already been said above, they actually worked in countries where they are in place.  But unless you are going to do the same thing for WiFi access/internet based communication it seems to me that there are simply too many alternatives to using a cellular network for a blacklist to have much impact.


does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


hme83 wrote:

 


eggypadua wrote:

who need a  blacklist when you have insurance and ebay.


 

Yes, IMO a blacklist would accomplish nothing for the consumer, who with the time required for due process of law is already going to have replaced the phone anyway. 

 

Maybe you can make an argument that it peripherally could help law enforcement/reduce crime by making it more difficult for criminals to communicate - if, as has already been said above, they actually worked in countries where they are in place.  But unless you are going to do the same thing for WiFi access/internet based communication it seems to me that there are simply too many alternatives to using a cellular network for a blacklist to have much impact.


does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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ACE - Master

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 


sorry there are a lot more important issues then a IMEI database that would need the money more - the affect of this would be minimal with no ROI. Would suspect that 95 percent of the phones that are claimed stolen are actually lost and no police report is every filed, even if a police report is filed it would be a misdemeanor report given what the cost of the phone is in the majority of the cases


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 


sorry there are a lot more important issues then a IMEI database that would need the money more - the affect of this would be minimal with no ROI. Would suspect that 95 percent of the phones that are claimed stolen are actually lost and no police report is every filed, even if a police report is filed it would be a misdemeanor report given what the cost of the phone is in the majority of the cases

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 


sorry there are a lot more important issues then a IMEI database that would need the money more - the affect of this would be minimal with no ROI. Would suspect that 95 percent of the phones that are claimed stolen are actually lost and no police report is every filed, even if a police report is filed it would be a misdemeanor report given what the cost of the phone is in the majority of the cases


Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 


sorry there are a lot more important issues then a IMEI database that would need the money more - the affect of this would be minimal with no ROI. Would suspect that 95 percent of the phones that are claimed stolen are actually lost and no police report is every filed, even if a police report is filed it would be a misdemeanor report given what the cost of the phone is in the majority of the cases


Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 


sorry there are a lot more important issues then a IMEI database that would need the money more - the affect of this would be minimal with no ROI. Would suspect that 95 percent of the phones that are claimed stolen are actually lost and no police report is every filed, even if a police report is filed it would be a misdemeanor report given what the cost of the phone is in the majority of the cases


Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 


there is no "good busines case" not profitable - The international database idea sounds good! But it does have obstacles to overcome, as many smaller networks claim that it would be too expensive to upgrade their equipment to support such a system.

 

My statement is based on common sense for ROI - why waste money on a system that has no major impact for law enformcement, sorry "stolen" phones are penny ante reports, not really worth it, the money is more need to in the fcets of law enforcement that can make a difference.

 

Bottom line - as is everything - if the end user does not considering kicking in to cover the cost, then it is not worth it. Even if the database ws federally mandated  the end user will pay for it in higher taxes or additional surcharges on the bill - take a look at your phone bill already for all the surcharges and taxes that already are on it, same with your paycheck.  


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:
does no good when there is the ability to actually change the IMEI number on blacklisted devices, not to mention that the criminals do have an alternative to changing IMEI's, and this is to send the barred handsets overseas! The blacklist database (or CEIR) is only used by the UK networks. Therefore a handset that is barred in the UK will work fine in a different country! Apparently a large number of UK barred handsets find themselves in Italy, Spain and France etc.. The Barred handset works fine in any country outside the UK.

 

Basicly a national database is useless, what is needed is an international one


Which just goes right back to my feeling of let's use the resources that would be required to fight the actual crimes themselves, rather than implementing an IMEI blacklist (nationally or internationally).  While it *could possibly* help reduce crime in a peripheral manner, it would also make it more cumbersome/less attractive for non-criminal consumers to sell their device and give it a second useful life. Smiley Happy

 


sorry there are a lot more important issues then a IMEI database that would need the money more - the affect of this would be minimal with no ROI. Would suspect that 95 percent of the phones that are claimed stolen are actually lost and no police report is every filed, even if a police report is filed it would be a misdemeanor report given what the cost of the phone is in the majority of the cases


Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 


there is no "good busines case" not profitable - The international database idea sounds good! But it does have obstacles to overcome, as many smaller networks claim that it would be too expensive to upgrade their equipment to support such a system.

 

My statement is based on common sense for ROI - why waste money on a system that has no major impact for law enformcement, sorry "stolen" phones are penny ante reports, not really worth it, the money is more need to in the fcets of law enforcement that can make a difference.

 

Bottom line - as is everything - if the end user does not considering kicking in to cover the cost, then it is not worth it. Even if the database ws federally mandated  the end user will pay for it in higher taxes or additional surcharges on the bill - take a look at your phone bill already for all the surcharges and taxes that already are on it, same with your paycheck.  

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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ACE - Master

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 

Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 


there is no "good busines case" not profitable - The international database idea sounds good! But it does have obstacles to overcome, as many smaller networks claim that it would be too expensive to upgrade their equipment to support such a system.

 

My statement is based on common sense for ROI - why waste money on a system that has no major impact for law enformcement, sorry "stolen" phones are penny ante reports, not really worth it, the money is more need to in the fcets of law enforcement that can make a difference.

 

Bottom line - as is everything - if the end user does not considering kicking in to cover the cost, then it is not worth it. Even if the database ws federally mandated  the end user will pay for it in higher taxes or additional surcharges on the bill - take a look at your phone bill already for all the surcharges and taxes that already are on it, same with your paycheck.  


Our position is the same.  Just surprised by your sudden about face since a few posts above you seemed to believe developing this kind of database could be a lucrative business venture for your company. Smiley Wink

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 

Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 


there is no "good busines case" not profitable - The international database idea sounds good! But it does have obstacles to overcome, as many smaller networks claim that it would be too expensive to upgrade their equipment to support such a system.

 

My statement is based on common sense for ROI - why waste money on a system that has no major impact for law enformcement, sorry "stolen" phones are penny ante reports, not really worth it, the money is more need to in the fcets of law enforcement that can make a difference.

 

Bottom line - as is everything - if the end user does not considering kicking in to cover the cost, then it is not worth it. Even if the database ws federally mandated  the end user will pay for it in higher taxes or additional surcharges on the bill - take a look at your phone bill already for all the surcharges and taxes that already are on it, same with your paycheck.  


Our position is the same.  Just surprised by your sudden about face since a few posts above you seemed to believe developing this kind of database could be a lucrative business venture for your company. Smiley Wink

 

                                                                                                                         =^..^=
There must be a happy medium somewhere between being totally informed and blissfully unaware.

     - Doug Larson

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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Apr 24, 2011 3:27:07 PM
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hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 

Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 


there is no "good busines case" not profitable - The international database idea sounds good! But it does have obstacles to overcome, as many smaller networks claim that it would be too expensive to upgrade their equipment to support such a system.

 

My statement is based on common sense for ROI - why waste money on a system that has no major impact for law enformcement, sorry "stolen" phones are penny ante reports, not really worth it, the money is more need to in the fcets of law enforcement that can make a difference.

 

Bottom line - as is everything - if the end user does not considering kicking in to cover the cost, then it is not worth it. Even if the database ws federally mandated  the end user will pay for it in higher taxes or additional surcharges on the bill - take a look at your phone bill already for all the surcharges and taxes that already are on it, same with your paycheck.  


Our position is the same.  Just surprised by your sudden about face since a few posts above you seemed to believe developing this kind of database could be a lucrative business venture for your company. Smiley Wink

 


like I said, took about a 30 minute meeting with the planners to figure out the ROI would not be worth it since so few carriers will join in and other carriers don't have the infrastructure to support it, unless the goverment would foot the bill 100 percent, then charge the end user back to recover all the costs plus a profit. Make it a rule not to back losing propositions for the company. That is why I hire the best people for the job, I tend to think something is a money maker when it is not. They tend to keep me from making a mistake that would bankrupt the company.

 

Only thin we really disgreed on was who would be up the bill for such service..if it happens the end user should foot the bill


hme83 wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

hme83 wrote:

 

Since the "consumer side" of me never saw any value to it, I'm happy to hear you've done an ROI evaluation and decided you can't make a good business case for pursuing it either.  lol.

 


there is no "good busines case" not profitable - The international database idea sounds good! But it does have obstacles to overcome, as many smaller networks claim that it would be too expensive to upgrade their equipment to support such a system.

 

My statement is based on common sense for ROI - why waste money on a system that has no major impact for law enformcement, sorry "stolen" phones are penny ante reports, not really worth it, the money is more need to in the fcets of law enforcement that can make a difference.

 

Bottom line - as is everything - if the end user does not considering kicking in to cover the cost, then it is not worth it. Even if the database ws federally mandated  the end user will pay for it in higher taxes or additional surcharges on the bill - take a look at your phone bill already for all the surcharges and taxes that already are on it, same with your paycheck.  


Our position is the same.  Just surprised by your sudden about face since a few posts above you seemed to believe developing this kind of database could be a lucrative business venture for your company. Smiley Wink

 


like I said, took about a 30 minute meeting with the planners to figure out the ROI would not be worth it since so few carriers will join in and other carriers don't have the infrastructure to support it, unless the goverment would foot the bill 100 percent, then charge the end user back to recover all the costs plus a profit. Make it a rule not to back losing propositions for the company. That is why I hire the best people for the job, I tend to think something is a money maker when it is not. They tend to keep me from making a mistake that would bankrupt the company.

 

Only thin we really disgreed on was who would be up the bill for such service..if it happens the end user should foot the bill

Re: Why is there no IMEI Blacklist in the US?

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