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Posted Feb 16, 2008
10:30:51 AM
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Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?
I am a Verizon customer who would like to become an AT&T customer. However, as a consultant I spend weekdays in Montreal, Canada and weekends in Ohio; therefore, I need an affordable plan that works in both areas. The problem is that AT&T does not have such a plan and Verizon does. I think AT&T could stand to gain customers if thier international calling plans were even a little bit comparible to other carriers plans. Why can't AT&T work roaming and long distance to/from Canada into a set fee plan?
I am a Verizon customer who would like to become an AT&T customer. However, as a consultant I spend weekdays in Montreal, Canada and weekends in Ohio; therefore, I need an affordable plan that works in both areas. The problem is that AT&T does not have such a plan and Verizon does. I think AT&T could stand to gain customers if thier international calling plans were even a little bit comparible to other carriers plans. Why can't AT&T work roaming and long distance to/from Canada into a set fee plan?

Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 16, 2008 1:06:47 PM
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I agree with you. I own a Rogers SIM Card and wind up having to call forward to it.

By the way, this off topic, but over on Howardforums.com, there is talk that Verizon will be offering an unlimited (US) talk plan for $99 coming on February 19th. This is the second carrier (Sprint is the first) to make such an announcement.
I agree with you. I own a Rogers SIM Card and wind up having to call forward to it.

By the way, this off topic, but over on Howardforums.com, there is talk that Verizon will be offering an unlimited (US) talk plan for $99 coming on February 19th. This is the second carrier (Sprint is the first) to make such an announcement.

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 16, 2008 2:00:34 PM
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I agree with you that it would be nice for at&t to have this option.  They had it in the past but they have dropped it.  The bean counters must have concluded that it was not profitable enough and given AT&T's current rate of growth compared to Verizon it has not seem to have hurt them.  If the market becomes a little sluggish and it becomes harder to add subscribers I think they may reconsider it. 
 
The advantage that at&t offers is that it has the ability to allow roaming is many more countries than Verizion can.  Verzion has one or two world phones while at&t has dozens and has roaming agreements in over 190 countries.  Verizion does not even come close to this.  So from a global perspective of capturing the high value business traveler who jogs around the world at&t currently can offer a more seamless solution.  It does however come at a cost.   There currently appear to be enough willing corporate accounts to keep the status quo.
I agree with you that it would be nice for at&t to have this option.  They had it in the past but they have dropped it.  The bean counters must have concluded that it was not profitable enough and given AT&T's current rate of growth compared to Verizon it has not seem to have hurt them.  If the market becomes a little sluggish and it becomes harder to add subscribers I think they may reconsider it. 
 
The advantage that at&t offers is that it has the ability to allow roaming is many more countries than Verizion can.  Verzion has one or two world phones while at&t has dozens and has roaming agreements in over 190 countries.  Verizion does not even come close to this.  So from a global perspective of capturing the high value business traveler who jogs around the world at&t currently can offer a more seamless solution.  It does however come at a cost.   There currently appear to be enough willing corporate accounts to keep the status quo.

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 16, 2008 2:13:59 PM
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Edited by ratatosk on Feb 16, 2008 at 2:28:36 PM

DWC1 wrote:
I agree with you that it would be nice for at&t to have this option.  They had it in the past but they have dropped it.  The bean counters must have concluded that it was not profitable enough and given AT&T's current rate of growth compared to Verizon it has not seem to have hurt them.  If the market becomes a little sluggish and it becomes harder to add subscribers I think they may reconsider it. 
 
The advantage that at&t offers is that it has the ability to allow roaming is many more countries than Verizion can.  Verzion has one or two world phones while at&t has dozens and has roaming agreements in over 190 countries.  Verizion does not even come close to this.  So from a global perspective of capturing the high value business traveler who jogs around the world at&t currently can offer a more seamless solution.  It does however come at a cost.   There currently appear to be enough willing corporate accounts to keep the status quo.





My guess is that part of it may come down to the bigger Canadian Mobility carriers offering better roaming rates than Rogers. Verizon does own a share of Telus. The three big U.S. CDMA carriers: VZW, Sprint, and Alltel all offer much better deals for frequent roamers in Canada than the big U.S. GSM carriers: AT&T and T-mobile.

Historically, Cingular TDMA phones used to roam on Bell (CDMA/AMPS) rather than Rogers (TDMA). Was pretty horrible for Cingular customers to be in a big city like Toronto, and stuck using analog.

Nevertheless, it is the reason I keep Verizon as my primary line, and VZW gets (by far) the bulk of my cellular dollars every month.

The VZW BB8830 (dual mode GSM/CDMA Blackberry) actually works pretty well. Certainly a good option for a world traveller unless you happen to frequent Japan.

Message Edited by ratatosk on 02-16-2008 02:28:36 PM

DWC1 wrote:
I agree with you that it would be nice for at&t to have this option.  They had it in the past but they have dropped it.  The bean counters must have concluded that it was not profitable enough and given AT&T's current rate of growth compared to Verizon it has not seem to have hurt them.  If the market becomes a little sluggish and it becomes harder to add subscribers I think they may reconsider it. 
 
The advantage that at&t offers is that it has the ability to allow roaming is many more countries than Verizion can.  Verzion has one or two world phones while at&t has dozens and has roaming agreements in over 190 countries.  Verizion does not even come close to this.  So from a global perspective of capturing the high value business traveler who jogs around the world at&t currently can offer a more seamless solution.  It does however come at a cost.   There currently appear to be enough willing corporate accounts to keep the status quo.





My guess is that part of it may come down to the bigger Canadian Mobility carriers offering better roaming rates than Rogers. Verizon does own a share of Telus. The three big U.S. CDMA carriers: VZW, Sprint, and Alltel all offer much better deals for frequent roamers in Canada than the big U.S. GSM carriers: AT&T and T-mobile.

Historically, Cingular TDMA phones used to roam on Bell (CDMA/AMPS) rather than Rogers (TDMA). Was pretty horrible for Cingular customers to be in a big city like Toronto, and stuck using analog.

Nevertheless, it is the reason I keep Verizon as my primary line, and VZW gets (by far) the bulk of my cellular dollars every month.

The VZW BB8830 (dual mode GSM/CDMA Blackberry) actually works pretty well. Certainly a good option for a world traveller unless you happen to frequent Japan.

Message Edited by ratatosk on 02-16-2008 02:28:36 PM

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 16, 2008 2:28:24 PM
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Rogers is actually a very large company. They are probably not as big as Bell Canada, but I really think they are bigger than Telus Mobility. For years, the original ATT Wireless was a large stakeholder in Rogers (f/n/a Rogers ATT, ATT Canada, Cantel, etc). While they shed most of their 40% ownership interest, I think they do retain some stake in the company.
Rogers is actually a very large company. They are probably not as big as Bell Canada, but I really think they are bigger than Telus Mobility. For years, the original ATT Wireless was a large stakeholder in Rogers (f/n/a Rogers ATT, ATT Canada, Cantel, etc). While they shed most of their 40% ownership interest, I think they do retain some stake in the company.

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 16, 2008 2:47:18 PM
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ratatosk wrote:


The VZW BB8830 (dual mode GSM/CDMA Blackberry) actually works pretty well. Certainly a good option for a world traveller unless you happen to frequent Japan.


It really depends on where you travel.  That Verizon device can only roam in about 150 countries vs the 190+ you can roam in even with some very basic inexpensive or free quad band models that at&t offers.  The 8830 lacks the 850mhz GSM band and while you don't need that with Verizon in the US it is critical in some other countries in the Caribbean and Americas where no CDMA is available.  All in all at&t offers a more seamless world wide roaming product on one handset even including Japan with some more sophisticated handsets.  Unfortunately no one offers this at a cheap price.


ratatosk wrote:


The VZW BB8830 (dual mode GSM/CDMA Blackberry) actually works pretty well. Certainly a good option for a world traveller unless you happen to frequent Japan.


It really depends on where you travel.  That Verizon device can only roam in about 150 countries vs the 190+ you can roam in even with some very basic inexpensive or free quad band models that at&t offers.  The 8830 lacks the 850mhz GSM band and while you don't need that with Verizon in the US it is critical in some other countries in the Caribbean and Americas where no CDMA is available.  All in all at&t offers a more seamless world wide roaming product on one handset even including Japan with some more sophisticated handsets.  Unfortunately no one offers this at a cheap price.

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 16, 2008 5:36:21 PM
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Edited by Blue4Life on Feb 16, 2008 at 6:26:38 PM

stufried wrote:
Rogers is actually a very large company. They are probably not as big as Bell Canada, but I really think they are bigger than Telus Mobility. For years, the original ATT Wireless was a large stakeholder in Rogers (f/n/a Rogers ATT, ATT Canada, Cantel, etc). While they shed most of their 40% ownership interest, I think they do retain some stake in the company.
The stake in the company that AT&T Wireless once held was sold off back in 2004.

Message Edited by Blue4Life on 02-16-2008 09:26:38 PM

stufried wrote:
Rogers is actually a very large company. They are probably not as big as Bell Canada, but I really think they are bigger than Telus Mobility. For years, the original ATT Wireless was a large stakeholder in Rogers (f/n/a Rogers ATT, ATT Canada, Cantel, etc). While they shed most of their 40% ownership interest, I think they do retain some stake in the company.
The stake in the company that AT&T Wireless once held was sold off back in 2004.

Message Edited by Blue4Life on 02-16-2008 09:26:38 PM

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 16, 2008 7:14:04 PM
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Obviously, ATT made a mistake relinquishing all interest in Rogers.  I have to think that the companies still have good relations.  They'd both bel  shooting themselves in the foot not working together.  Obviously, I'm not privy to the backstory on their divorce.

Stu
Obviously, ATT made a mistake relinquishing all interest in Rogers.  I have to think that the companies still have good relations.  They'd both bel  shooting themselves in the foot not working together.  Obviously, I'm not privy to the backstory on their divorce.

Stu

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 17, 2008 12:07:54 PM
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Edited by ratatosk on Feb 17, 2008 at 12:09:50 PM
No question that it's a trade off. For me, the trade off is easy because I am frequently in Canada, and don't travel to countries where the 8830 doesn't work.

AT&T is losing a significant market share in the border states. There is a lot of cross border travel between the U.S. and Canada. The fact that Verizon and Alltel have plans that include roaming in Canada out of your bucket of minutes, and that Sprint offers a deeply discounted Canadian roaming plan ($0.20/minute, for $2.99/month), basically forces people who routinely roam in Canada to other carriers.


DWC1 wrote:


ratatosk wrote:


The VZW BB8830 (dual mode GSM/CDMA Blackberry) actually works pretty well. Certainly a good option for a world traveller unless you happen to frequent Japan.


It really depends on where you travel.  That Verizon device can only roam in about 150 countries vs the 190+ you can roam in even with some very basic inexpensive or free quad band models that at&t offers.  The 8830 lacks the 850mhz GSM band and while you don't need that with Verizon in the US it is critical in some other countries in the Caribbean and Americas where no CDMA is available.  All in all at&t offers a more seamless world wide roaming product on one handset even including Japan with some more sophisticated handsets.  Unfortunately no one offers this at a cheap price.





Message Edited by ratatosk on 02-17-2008 12:09:50 PM
No question that it's a trade off. For me, the trade off is easy because I am frequently in Canada, and don't travel to countries where the 8830 doesn't work.

AT&T is losing a significant market share in the border states. There is a lot of cross border travel between the U.S. and Canada. The fact that Verizon and Alltel have plans that include roaming in Canada out of your bucket of minutes, and that Sprint offers a deeply discounted Canadian roaming plan ($0.20/minute, for $2.99/month), basically forces people who routinely roam in Canada to other carriers.


DWC1 wrote:


ratatosk wrote:


The VZW BB8830 (dual mode GSM/CDMA Blackberry) actually works pretty well. Certainly a good option for a world traveller unless you happen to frequent Japan.


It really depends on where you travel.  That Verizon device can only roam in about 150 countries vs the 190+ you can roam in even with some very basic inexpensive or free quad band models that at&t offers.  The 8830 lacks the 850mhz GSM band and while you don't need that with Verizon in the US it is critical in some other countries in the Caribbean and Americas where no CDMA is available.  All in all at&t offers a more seamless world wide roaming product on one handset even including Japan with some more sophisticated handsets.  Unfortunately no one offers this at a cheap price.





Message Edited by ratatosk on 02-17-2008 12:09:50 PM

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 18, 2008 7:22:24 AM
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Edited by redpoint73 on Feb 18, 2008 at 7:28:48 AM


cmanjk wrote:
I think AT&T could stand to gain customers if thier international calling plans were even a little bit comparible to other carriers plans.



That's a matter of opinion and is going to vary from one person's needs to another.

I travel regularly to Japan, and compared AT&T's service to other carriers.  Verizon doesn't even offer service in Japan. All they offer is to rent a Japanese cell phone and have your calls forwarded.  Pretty useless, b/c I can just rent a phone from the airport in Japan. 

CDMA coverage in foreign countries is very sparse.  Whereas with my AT&T quad-band GSM/tri-band UMTS phone, I can travel to a huge number of countries.

I realize that there is probably significantly  more people crossing the borders to Canada and Mexico than travelling overseas.  But for me (and many others) AT&T is the better choice.


Message Edited by redpoint73 on 02-18-2008 07:28:48 AM


cmanjk wrote:
I think AT&T could stand to gain customers if thier international calling plans were even a little bit comparible to other carriers plans.



That's a matter of opinion and is going to vary from one person's needs to another.

I travel regularly to Japan, and compared AT&T's service to other carriers.  Verizon doesn't even offer service in Japan. All they offer is to rent a Japanese cell phone and have your calls forwarded.  Pretty useless, b/c I can just rent a phone from the airport in Japan. 

CDMA coverage in foreign countries is very sparse.  Whereas with my AT&T quad-band GSM/tri-band UMTS phone, I can travel to a huge number of countries.

I realize that there is probably significantly  more people crossing the borders to Canada and Mexico than travelling overseas.  But for me (and many others) AT&T is the better choice.


Message Edited by redpoint73 on 02-18-2008 07:28:48 AM
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 18, 2008 7:35:56 AM
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Edited by stufried on Feb 18, 2008 at 8:04:34 AM
There are also people crossing the Canadian border who also travel overseas (such as myself). The thing for me about Canada is that the trips are casual, unplanned, and my alternate SIMs might not be in my pocket. When I head to Europe, I have six hours to swap sim cards. It would be nice to see ATT be more Canada friendly.

Verizon just revamped their entire pricing structure today and Sprint is expected to do the same. I presume ATT will be taking a hard look at their plans and trying to neutralize their advantage. Perhaps this will also be taking a hard look at this issue.

Message Edited by stufried on 02-18-2008 11:04:34 AM
There are also people crossing the Canadian border who also travel overseas (such as myself). The thing for me about Canada is that the trips are casual, unplanned, and my alternate SIMs might not be in my pocket. When I head to Europe, I have six hours to swap sim cards. It would be nice to see ATT be more Canada friendly.

Verizon just revamped their entire pricing structure today and Sprint is expected to do the same. I presume ATT will be taking a hard look at their plans and trying to neutralize their advantage. Perhaps this will also be taking a hard look at this issue.

Message Edited by stufried on 02-18-2008 11:04:34 AM

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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Feb 18, 2008 6:52:30 PM
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Yes, this is a shame. ATT used to of course offer the North America add on, but stopped I think when they sold their share of Rogers. As I was commuting to Canada every week since July, I took out a VZW NA plan, great deal, but all the time didn't like CDMA, 2 phones, non-GSM, etc.
Since I still go to Canada a few weeks a month now, this is what i ended up doing, and it works well.
I took out a vonage unlimited NA plan for 24/month.
When I leave for canada i forward my att number to the vonage number, which forwards to my rogers #.
In Canada I have the My5 on rogers. One of my myfive is mobivox call out, so I can use the rogers phone for free in canada to call mobivox and call us for 1.9 cents per minute.
I know this sounds confusing, but it allowed me to drop vzw, use just one gsm phone (switch sims), and overall my cost is lower. On ATT unlimited Charter here in the US.
 
I really wish ATT would bring back NA, though I wouldn't be able to get it anyway as I'm charter.
Yes, this is a shame. ATT used to of course offer the North America add on, but stopped I think when they sold their share of Rogers. As I was commuting to Canada every week since July, I took out a VZW NA plan, great deal, but all the time didn't like CDMA, 2 phones, non-GSM, etc.
Since I still go to Canada a few weeks a month now, this is what i ended up doing, and it works well.
I took out a vonage unlimited NA plan for 24/month.
When I leave for canada i forward my att number to the vonage number, which forwards to my rogers #.
In Canada I have the My5 on rogers. One of my myfive is mobivox call out, so I can use the rogers phone for free in canada to call mobivox and call us for 1.9 cents per minute.
I know this sounds confusing, but it allowed me to drop vzw, use just one gsm phone (switch sims), and overall my cost is lower. On ATT unlimited Charter here in the US.
 
I really wish ATT would bring back NA, though I wouldn't be able to get it anyway as I'm charter.

Re: Verizon can do it, why can't AT&T?

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