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Posted Mar 18, 2011
11:17:17 AM
Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff
Edited by IPhone3GSOwner on Mar 18, 2011 at 11:17:45 AM

This is double billing pure and simple. If you pay for a data plan and it is advertised as unlimited, this means you get to download as much as you want from your phone device. If your "unlimited" plan isn't unlimited, this is false advertising and a class action lawsuit should be thrown at the carrier already, but if I decide I want to tether the phone to a laptop or tablet, if you are still using the unlimited plan you are already paying for. A tethering subscription is double billing. This is ripe for a class action lawsuit. All it needs to start is people continuing to jailbreak or root their phones and tether and refusing to pay the fees and if enough people do this the media will swarm and some lawyer will jump all offer a class action for the other people who did pay the fees. It's about time we do something about it. Data is data, and we're already paying (dearly) for it. Why do we have to pay more for the same data if it comes from a tethered laptop or any other device? It is double billing and we need to organize ourselves and seriously protest this type of biased measures from telcos.

 

Does Comcast charge me for tethering my laptop to my wireless router?  No.  Does it charge me for how many machines are on my network? No.

 

We are the only country where the telcos stick it to us in every way, shape, or form.  I'm sick of it.  If I have an unlimited data plan then I have an unlimited data plan whether I choose to access it from my iPhone or a tethered device.  There is NO difference.  I hope someone sues and we get our freedom to use the device as we choose back, we are doing NOTHING wrong by tethering.  Also, if you're so concerned about people abusing the cap, then ENFORCE IT, but don't make people pay out the nose for an additional service that's no different than connecting to a wireless hot spot at Starbucks. 

 

Rip off artists to the end.

This is double billing pure and simple. If you pay for a data plan and it is advertised as unlimited, this means you get to download as much as you want from your phone device. If your "unlimited" plan isn't unlimited, this is false advertising and a class action lawsuit should be thrown at the carrier already, but if I decide I want to tether the phone to a laptop or tablet, if you are still using the unlimited plan you are already paying for. A tethering subscription is double billing. This is ripe for a class action lawsuit. All it needs to start is people continuing to jailbreak or root their phones and tether and refusing to pay the fees and if enough people do this the media will swarm and some lawyer will jump all offer a class action for the other people who did pay the fees. It's about time we do something about it. Data is data, and we're already paying (dearly) for it. Why do we have to pay more for the same data if it comes from a tethered laptop or any other device? It is double billing and we need to organize ourselves and seriously protest this type of biased measures from telcos.

 

Does Comcast charge me for tethering my laptop to my wireless router?  No.  Does it charge me for how many machines are on my network? No.

 

We are the only country where the telcos stick it to us in every way, shape, or form.  I'm sick of it.  If I have an unlimited data plan then I have an unlimited data plan whether I choose to access it from my iPhone or a tethered device.  There is NO difference.  I hope someone sues and we get our freedom to use the device as we choose back, we are doing NOTHING wrong by tethering.  Also, if you're so concerned about people abusing the cap, then ENFORCE IT, but don't make people pay out the nose for an additional service that's no different than connecting to a wireless hot spot at Starbucks. 

 

Rip off artists to the end.

Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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ACE - Professor

 


qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

 

LOL... I give up. You're steadfast in your ability to avoid reason.

 

You want free hotspot/tethering. You can't have it. That about covers the discussion.

 


qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

 

LOL... I give up. You're steadfast in your ability to avoid reason.

 

You want free hotspot/tethering. You can't have it. That about covers the discussion.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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qb.84 wrote:

I never said I wanted something for nothing. I said if I'm paying for 2 GB what difference does it make to use it on my phone or laptop.


 

First of all, you seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that AT&T charges an extra fee just for the ability to use tethering.  They don't.  They just charge you for a minimum of 4GB of data for the plan that includes tethering, instead of the 2GB minimum for the larger non-tethering plan.

Second, as to what difference it makes, you are paying for an account that lets you use at most 2GB per month without generating extra charges.  AT&T based what they charge for that plan on how much data they have determined that the average user will actually use on that plan per month.  Which I'm guessing is well short of 2GB.  When people start tethering other devices that are not as limited as the iPhone as to what they can do, their usage will go up.  But unless they are using their phone as their main home broadband connection I'm guessing that most people will still not go over 2GB, but they'll likely go well over what they would use with just the phone.  Meaning that AT&T is having to provide a lot more bandwidth for no extra compensation.

 

Their solution for that?  My first point.  Charge up front for 4GB of data instead of just 2.

 

Am I happy about it?  Not particularly.  But I understand why they are doing it.

 


qb.84 wrote:

I never said I wanted something for nothing. I said if I'm paying for 2 GB what difference does it make to use it on my phone or laptop.


 

First of all, you seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that AT&T charges an extra fee just for the ability to use tethering.  They don't.  They just charge you for a minimum of 4GB of data for the plan that includes tethering, instead of the 2GB minimum for the larger non-tethering plan.

Second, as to what difference it makes, you are paying for an account that lets you use at most 2GB per month without generating extra charges.  AT&T based what they charge for that plan on how much data they have determined that the average user will actually use on that plan per month.  Which I'm guessing is well short of 2GB.  When people start tethering other devices that are not as limited as the iPhone as to what they can do, their usage will go up.  But unless they are using their phone as their main home broadband connection I'm guessing that most people will still not go over 2GB, but they'll likely go well over what they would use with just the phone.  Meaning that AT&T is having to provide a lot more bandwidth for no extra compensation.

 

Their solution for that?  My first point.  Charge up front for 4GB of data instead of just 2.

 

Am I happy about it?  Not particularly.  But I understand why they are doing it.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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Edited by qb.84 on Mar 19, 2011 at 11:54:45 PM

archermoo wrote:

 


qb.84 wrote:

I never said I wanted something for nothing. I said if I'm paying for 2 GB what difference does it make to use it on my phone or laptop.


 

First of all, you seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that AT&T charges an extra fee just for the ability to use tethering.  They don't.  They just charge you for a minimum of 4GB of data for the plan that includes tethering, instead of the 2GB minimum for the larger non-tethering plan.

Second, as to what difference it makes, you are paying for an account that lets you use at most 2GB per month without generating extra charges.  AT&T based what they charge for that plan on how much data they have determined that the average user will actually use on that plan per month.  Which I'm guessing is well short of 2GB.  When people start tethering other devices that are not as limited as the iPhone as to what they can do, their usage will go up.  But unless they are using their phone as their main home broadband connection I'm guessing that most people will still not go over 2GB, but they'll likely go well over what they would use with just the phone.  Meaning that AT&T is having to provide a lot more bandwidth for no extra compensation.

 

Their solution for that?  My first point.  Charge up front for 4GB of data instead of just 2.

 

Am I happy about it?  Not particularly.  But I understand why they are doing it.


 

Um... No extra compensation??

 

What if I go over 2 GB? DataPro 2 GB for iPhone includes 2 GB of data for use in the U.S. If 2 GB is exceeded, an additional 1 GB is automatically provided at a rate of $10 for each additional 1 GB.

 

why can't we just use this instead of forcing us to pay more?


archermoo wrote:

 


qb.84 wrote:

I never said I wanted something for nothing. I said if I'm paying for 2 GB what difference does it make to use it on my phone or laptop.


 

First of all, you seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that AT&T charges an extra fee just for the ability to use tethering.  They don't.  They just charge you for a minimum of 4GB of data for the plan that includes tethering, instead of the 2GB minimum for the larger non-tethering plan.

Second, as to what difference it makes, you are paying for an account that lets you use at most 2GB per month without generating extra charges.  AT&T based what they charge for that plan on how much data they have determined that the average user will actually use on that plan per month.  Which I'm guessing is well short of 2GB.  When people start tethering other devices that are not as limited as the iPhone as to what they can do, their usage will go up.  But unless they are using their phone as their main home broadband connection I'm guessing that most people will still not go over 2GB, but they'll likely go well over what they would use with just the phone.  Meaning that AT&T is having to provide a lot more bandwidth for no extra compensation.

 

Their solution for that?  My first point.  Charge up front for 4GB of data instead of just 2.

 

Am I happy about it?  Not particularly.  But I understand why they are doing it.


 

Um... No extra compensation??

 

What if I go over 2 GB? DataPro 2 GB for iPhone includes 2 GB of data for use in the U.S. If 2 GB is exceeded, an additional 1 GB is automatically provided at a rate of $10 for each additional 1 GB.

 

why can't we just use this instead of forcing us to pay more?

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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qb.84 wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Yes I get it. You all like to pay for something the phone you bought does for you. Either all of you work for AT&T or you're all very naive. Keep agreeing to everything and soon you'll end up paying for the ability to pay your bills too.

You are making numerous errors in your assumptions - first unless there is a dislcaimer about it being their opinion and not ATT's they are not employees of ATT.

 

Second if you are tetheirng now, go ahead and keep doing it - on the 27th of this month you will get a notice that if you continue to violate the terms of your cellular service agreement by tethering without paying for it, ATT will enfore their legal right to add what eer is required to your account to bring you into legal agreement with your cellular service agreement - aka they will add what ever is required to make you legal - and there is not a thing you can do about it - if you terminate your contract, you owe the etf

 

Third just because you have bought a phone that has the ability to tether you cannot use it unless you pay the bill for the ability, my shelby cobra (phone) will top 170 mph easily, just becasue it can do it does not mean I can on the highway (data charges), if I want to do it I have to pay to rent a private track (tethering charges) that has no speed limit.


Your analogy is flawed. It works more like this. AT&T gives you gas for a car. Why should I pay extra for using that gas on another car if at the end the amount is going to be the same? That "private track" is already yours when you bought the phone. Try again!

Also, it wouldnt be the first company that hires people to make them look good on forums, reviews, etc


wrong the "private track" would not be the phone, the private track is the carrier's data network, the phone would be the car so no the analogy is not flawed. Dealwith it, after the 27th there will be no choice

 

car = phone

track = carrier's network

 

/rofl nice TFHS - I can absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt that I am NOT a employee nor a paid shill of ATT or any of it's licesned subsidaries now of any of the companies they do business with - try again.


qb.84 wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Yes I get it. You all like to pay for something the phone you bought does for you. Either all of you work for AT&T or you're all very naive. Keep agreeing to everything and soon you'll end up paying for the ability to pay your bills too.

You are making numerous errors in your assumptions - first unless there is a dislcaimer about it being their opinion and not ATT's they are not employees of ATT.

 

Second if you are tetheirng now, go ahead and keep doing it - on the 27th of this month you will get a notice that if you continue to violate the terms of your cellular service agreement by tethering without paying for it, ATT will enfore their legal right to add what eer is required to your account to bring you into legal agreement with your cellular service agreement - aka they will add what ever is required to make you legal - and there is not a thing you can do about it - if you terminate your contract, you owe the etf

 

Third just because you have bought a phone that has the ability to tether you cannot use it unless you pay the bill for the ability, my shelby cobra (phone) will top 170 mph easily, just becasue it can do it does not mean I can on the highway (data charges), if I want to do it I have to pay to rent a private track (tethering charges) that has no speed limit.


Your analogy is flawed. It works more like this. AT&T gives you gas for a car. Why should I pay extra for using that gas on another car if at the end the amount is going to be the same? That "private track" is already yours when you bought the phone. Try again!

Also, it wouldnt be the first company that hires people to make them look good on forums, reviews, etc


wrong the "private track" would not be the phone, the private track is the carrier's data network, the phone would be the car so no the analogy is not flawed. Dealwith it, after the 27th there will be no choice

 

car = phone

track = carrier's network

 

/rofl nice TFHS - I can absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt that I am NOT a employee nor a paid shill of ATT or any of it's licesned subsidaries now of any of the companies they do business with - try again.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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ACE - Professor

 


qb.84 wrote:

archermoo wrote:

 


qb.84 wrote:

I never said I wanted something for nothing. I said if I'm paying for 2 GB what difference does it make to use it on my phone or laptop.


 

First of all, you seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that AT&T charges an extra fee just for the ability to use tethering.  They don't.  They just charge you for a minimum of 4GB of data for the plan that includes tethering, instead of the 2GB minimum for the larger non-tethering plan.

Second, as to what difference it makes, you are paying for an account that lets you use at most 2GB per month without generating extra charges.  AT&T based what they charge for that plan on how much data they have determined that the average user will actually use on that plan per month.  Which I'm guessing is well short of 2GB.  When people start tethering other devices that are not as limited as the iPhone as to what they can do, their usage will go up.  But unless they are using their phone as their main home broadband connection I'm guessing that most people will still not go over 2GB, but they'll likely go well over what they would use with just the phone.  Meaning that AT&T is having to provide a lot more bandwidth for no extra compensation.

 

Their solution for that?  My first point.  Charge up front for 4GB of data instead of just 2.

 

Am I happy about it?  Not particularly.  But I understand why they are doing it.


 

Um... No extra compensation??

 

What if I go over 2 GB? DataPro 2 GB for iPhone includes 2 GB of data for use in the U.S. If 2 GB is exceeded, an additional 1 GB is automatically provided at a rate of $10 for each additional 1 GB.

 

why can't we just use this instead of forcing us to pay more?


You get the first 2GB "extra" when you sign up for the service.

 

 


qb.84 wrote:

archermoo wrote:

 


qb.84 wrote:

I never said I wanted something for nothing. I said if I'm paying for 2 GB what difference does it make to use it on my phone or laptop.


 

First of all, you seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that AT&T charges an extra fee just for the ability to use tethering.  They don't.  They just charge you for a minimum of 4GB of data for the plan that includes tethering, instead of the 2GB minimum for the larger non-tethering plan.

Second, as to what difference it makes, you are paying for an account that lets you use at most 2GB per month without generating extra charges.  AT&T based what they charge for that plan on how much data they have determined that the average user will actually use on that plan per month.  Which I'm guessing is well short of 2GB.  When people start tethering other devices that are not as limited as the iPhone as to what they can do, their usage will go up.  But unless they are using their phone as their main home broadband connection I'm guessing that most people will still not go over 2GB, but they'll likely go well over what they would use with just the phone.  Meaning that AT&T is having to provide a lot more bandwidth for no extra compensation.

 

Their solution for that?  My first point.  Charge up front for 4GB of data instead of just 2.

 

Am I happy about it?  Not particularly.  But I understand why they are doing it.


 

Um... No extra compensation??

 

What if I go over 2 GB? DataPro 2 GB for iPhone includes 2 GB of data for use in the U.S. If 2 GB is exceeded, an additional 1 GB is automatically provided at a rate of $10 for each additional 1 GB.

 

why can't we just use this instead of forcing us to pay more?


You get the first 2GB "extra" when you sign up for the service.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.

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wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


Actually, tethering is free. It is just not on the 2GB plan. If you use 4GB of data without tethering it will cost $45, the same as if you have the tethering plan. AT&T makes you buy more data if you are going to tether. This comes from the flawed analogy that customers that tether will use high amounts of data. While there are some that will, there just as many that won't. Just the same, there are some users that use large amounts of data without tethering. The real issue is with the unlimited plan because there is no cap and no ability to charge for excessive usage that could come from tethering. This is where the abuse comes in. The old unlimited smartphone plan with tethering cost $30 more, todays equivlent of 3GB, and had a 5GB soft cap. Today, you can get 5MB of tethering for $55, the same cost as if you don't tether and on par with what we had in the past.


wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


Actually, tethering is free. It is just not on the 2GB plan. If you use 4GB of data without tethering it will cost $45, the same as if you have the tethering plan. AT&T makes you buy more data if you are going to tether. This comes from the flawed analogy that customers that tether will use high amounts of data. While there are some that will, there just as many that won't. Just the same, there are some users that use large amounts of data without tethering. The real issue is with the unlimited plan because there is no cap and no ability to charge for excessive usage that could come from tethering. This is where the abuse comes in. The old unlimited smartphone plan with tethering cost $30 more, todays equivlent of 3GB, and had a 5GB soft cap. Today, you can get 5MB of tethering for $55, the same cost as if you don't tether and on par with what we had in the past.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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sitnsidewayz wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


Actually, tethering is free. It is just not on the 2GB plan. If you use 4GB of data without tethering it will cost $45, the same as if you have the tethering plan. AT&T makes you buy more data if you are going to tether. This comes from the flawed analogy that customers that tether will use high amounts of data. While there are some that will, there just as many that won't. Just the same, there are some users that use large amounts of data without tethering. The real issue is with the unlimited plan because there is no cap and no ability to charge for excessive usage that could come from tethering. This is where the abuse comes in. The old unlimited smartphone plan with tethering cost $30 more, todays equivlent of 3GB, and had a 5GB soft cap. Today, you can get 5MB of tethering for $55, the same cost as if you don't tether and on par with what we had in the past.


you don;t get the 2gb without adding the tethering feature so be your logic, the 2gb of data could be free and you pay for the tethering service. matter of your bhl semantics


sitnsidewayz wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


Actually, tethering is free. It is just not on the 2GB plan. If you use 4GB of data without tethering it will cost $45, the same as if you have the tethering plan. AT&T makes you buy more data if you are going to tether. This comes from the flawed analogy that customers that tether will use high amounts of data. While there are some that will, there just as many that won't. Just the same, there are some users that use large amounts of data without tethering. The real issue is with the unlimited plan because there is no cap and no ability to charge for excessive usage that could come from tethering. This is where the abuse comes in. The old unlimited smartphone plan with tethering cost $30 more, todays equivlent of 3GB, and had a 5GB soft cap. Today, you can get 5MB of tethering for $55, the same cost as if you don't tether and on par with what we had in the past.


you don;t get the 2gb without adding the tethering feature so be your logic, the 2gb of data could be free and you pay for the tethering service. matter of your bhl semantics

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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Lets explain it like this: You by some glasses. the frames are yours (phone) with your att service you get the lenses (connection) and a book written on sticky note pads (your formated data plan) You pay for this each month. Now if you want to read the full version hard cover book, (tethering) you have to pay extra, because its harder to get to you. This should help explain WHY tethering packages are more expensive. you are not paying double, or extra for something you already paid for. you only paid for the sticky note pad version.
Lets explain it like this: You by some glasses. the frames are yours (phone) with your att service you get the lenses (connection) and a book written on sticky note pads (your formated data plan) You pay for this each month. Now if you want to read the full version hard cover book, (tethering) you have to pay extra, because its harder to get to you. This should help explain WHY tethering packages are more expensive. you are not paying double, or extra for something you already paid for. you only paid for the sticky note pad version.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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ACE - Professor

 


qb.84 wrote:
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.

 

 

It makes perfect sense for a for-profit company to charge what the market will pay. You may be new to capitalism, perhaps? Or free market economies? I can tell you countries where you pay for every single SMS message sent, but not for any received. Or, where you pay for every KB of data, vs having a pool of data included. So what? Among US carriers, only T-Mobile *used* to officially support tethering on non-tethering plans, and they just ended that support this year.

 

None of us (not me, anyway) are defending AT&T. We're simply pointing out the fallacy of your argument. You are arguing from (your own sense of) fairness, and fairness has nothing to do with charging extra for hotspot.

 

You bought service for 2GB (or unlimited, I really can't remember at this point) of data use to use as you see fit* ON THE PHONE. Now, you think that that should include using that data on other devices via the phone. You want to change the terms you agreed to, and you're trying to justify it by using a "fairness" argument.

 

* even on the phone, you agreed to several important limitation as to how you can use the data. You might see those as "unfair" as well.

 

 

 


qb.84 wrote:
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.

 

 

It makes perfect sense for a for-profit company to charge what the market will pay. You may be new to capitalism, perhaps? Or free market economies? I can tell you countries where you pay for every single SMS message sent, but not for any received. Or, where you pay for every KB of data, vs having a pool of data included. So what? Among US carriers, only T-Mobile *used* to officially support tethering on non-tethering plans, and they just ended that support this year.

 

None of us (not me, anyway) are defending AT&T. We're simply pointing out the fallacy of your argument. You are arguing from (your own sense of) fairness, and fairness has nothing to do with charging extra for hotspot.

 

You bought service for 2GB (or unlimited, I really can't remember at this point) of data use to use as you see fit* ON THE PHONE. Now, you think that that should include using that data on other devices via the phone. You want to change the terms you agreed to, and you're trying to justify it by using a "fairness" argument.

 

* even on the phone, you agreed to several important limitation as to how you can use the data. You might see those as "unfair" as well.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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qb.84 wrote:
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.

Since this is a US based forum and the primary usage of the carrier is US based, it does not matter what any other country does, you want that ability, move there then you can get it. The crux of this discussion is US based carriers, do not matter what O2, Rigers or Orange does.

 

Want to stop this "insanity" - simple get some investors for a startup company and start your own carrier in the US then you can set the policies to what ever carrier you want them to be - simple solutions


qb.84 wrote:
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.

Since this is a US based forum and the primary usage of the carrier is US based, it does not matter what any other country does, you want that ability, move there then you can get it. The crux of this discussion is US based carriers, do not matter what O2, Rigers or Orange does.

 

Want to stop this "insanity" - simple get some investors for a startup company and start your own carrier in the US then you can set the policies to what ever carrier you want them to be - simple solutions

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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johninsj wrote:

 


Dellman87 wrote:
AT&T says that tethering is another type of service. I agree with that part. AT&T allows for unlimited data for the iPhone and no other devices. I don't agree on what "unlimited" is. It should be that I should use that unlimited however i see fit. I think also that as long as you are not a power user you shouldn't be cut off.

 

Let me help you with your understanding

 

"AT&T allows for unlimited data for the iPhone"

 

When you're using data on your phone, you can use as much as you want. That's unlimited, yes? You can use the data ON THE PHONE any way you want, yes?

 

Ok, good.

 

Now, hook your phone up to some other device acting as a network, or use your phone as a hotspot acting as a wireless access point. Now, you are no longer using data ON YOUR PHONE, yes?

 

So, here is a NEW use for data, which isn't covered in the agreement you signed. In fact, the agreement you signed says, specifically, you CANNOT use the phone to provide data access to OTHER devices.

 

Now, there is no confusion. Unlimted data use ON YOUR PHONE. Not using your phone to provide unlimited data use to ANOTHER DEVICE.

 

 

 


I have no problem with you telling me about the TOS and whatnot but aren't you still using that data you paid for through that phone? Haha. (I know what the rules are, I'm just enjoying reading everyone's opinions.)

johninsj wrote:

 


Dellman87 wrote:
AT&T says that tethering is another type of service. I agree with that part. AT&T allows for unlimited data for the iPhone and no other devices. I don't agree on what "unlimited" is. It should be that I should use that unlimited however i see fit. I think also that as long as you are not a power user you shouldn't be cut off.

 

Let me help you with your understanding

 

"AT&T allows for unlimited data for the iPhone"

 

When you're using data on your phone, you can use as much as you want. That's unlimited, yes? You can use the data ON THE PHONE any way you want, yes?

 

Ok, good.

 

Now, hook your phone up to some other device acting as a network, or use your phone as a hotspot acting as a wireless access point. Now, you are no longer using data ON YOUR PHONE, yes?

 

So, here is a NEW use for data, which isn't covered in the agreement you signed. In fact, the agreement you signed says, specifically, you CANNOT use the phone to provide data access to OTHER devices.

 

Now, there is no confusion. Unlimted data use ON YOUR PHONE. Not using your phone to provide unlimited data use to ANOTHER DEVICE.

 

 

 


I have no problem with you telling me about the TOS and whatnot but aren't you still using that data you paid for through that phone? Haha. (I know what the rules are, I'm just enjoying reading everyone's opinions.)

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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johninsj wrote:

 

 

You want free hotspot/tethering. You can't have it. That about covers the discussion.


Technically you CAN have it, it's just frowned upon when you do it without paying more.


johninsj wrote:

 

 

You want free hotspot/tethering. You can't have it. That about covers the discussion.


Technically you CAN have it, it's just frowned upon when you do it without paying more.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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qb.84 wrote:
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.
I think I heard somewhere that only the united states companies (wireless carriers) make you pay for tethering. Other campaniles don't. Can someone confirm this?

qb.84 wrote:
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.
I think I heard somewhere that only the united states companies (wireless carriers) make you pay for tethering. Other campaniles don't. Can someone confirm this?

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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Dellman87 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.
I think I heard somewhere that only the united states companies (wireless carriers) make you pay for tethering. Other campaniles don't. Can someone confirm this?

Will not say that only US companies charge for tethering as that is a broad statement. I would not be suprised that others in other counties might too but I would not place a bet on that statement.   But since ATT is the carrier here, what others do may not matter as you are not going to drop ATT for a Candian or European carrier. 

 

_____________________

For service or support questions including existing order status, call:
Customer Support: 1-800-331-0500

Information on iPhone unlocking can be found here by copying this link into your browser:
https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_US/

 


Dellman87 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.
I think I heard somewhere that only the united states companies (wireless carriers) make you pay for tethering. Other campaniles don't. Can someone confirm this?

Will not say that only US companies charge for tethering as that is a broad statement. I would not be suprised that others in other counties might too but I would not place a bet on that statement.   But since ATT is the carrier here, what others do may not matter as you are not going to drop ATT for a Candian or European carrier. 

 

_____________________

For service or support questions including existing order status, call:
Customer Support: 1-800-331-0500

Information on iPhone unlocking can be found here by copying this link into your browser:
https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_US/
Posted from my iPhone _____________________________ For service or support questions including existing order status, call: Customer Support: 1-800-331-0500 Information on iPhone unlocking can be found here by copying this link into your browser: https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_US/

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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ACE - Professor

 


Dellman87 wrote:

johninsj wrote:

 


Dellman87 wrote:
AT&T says that tethering is another type of service. I agree with that part. AT&T allows for unlimited data for the iPhone and no other devices. I don't agree on what "unlimited" is. It should be that I should use that unlimited however i see fit. I think also that as long as you are not a power user you shouldn't be cut off.

 

Let me help you with your understanding

 

"AT&T allows for unlimited data for the iPhone"

 

When you're using data on your phone, you can use as much as you want. That's unlimited, yes? You can use the data ON THE PHONE any way you want, yes?

 

Ok, good.

 

Now, hook your phone up to some other device acting as a network, or use your phone as a hotspot acting as a wireless access point. Now, you are no longer using data ON YOUR PHONE, yes?

 

So, here is a NEW use for data, which isn't covered in the agreement you signed. In fact, the agreement you signed says, specifically, you CANNOT use the phone to provide data access to OTHER devices.

 

Now, there is no confusion. Unlimted data use ON YOUR PHONE. Not using your phone to provide unlimited data use to ANOTHER DEVICE.

 

 

 


I have no problem with you telling me about the TOS and whatnot but aren't you still using that data you paid for through that phone? Haha.

 

No, you are using the phone as a router. Routers, as you know, don't USE data. They just ROUTE data.

 

This seems to be the crux of the confusion.

 


Dellman87 wrote:

johninsj wrote:

 


Dellman87 wrote:
AT&T says that tethering is another type of service. I agree with that part. AT&T allows for unlimited data for the iPhone and no other devices. I don't agree on what "unlimited" is. It should be that I should use that unlimited however i see fit. I think also that as long as you are not a power user you shouldn't be cut off.

 

Let me help you with your understanding

 

"AT&T allows for unlimited data for the iPhone"

 

When you're using data on your phone, you can use as much as you want. That's unlimited, yes? You can use the data ON THE PHONE any way you want, yes?

 

Ok, good.

 

Now, hook your phone up to some other device acting as a network, or use your phone as a hotspot acting as a wireless access point. Now, you are no longer using data ON YOUR PHONE, yes?

 

So, here is a NEW use for data, which isn't covered in the agreement you signed. In fact, the agreement you signed says, specifically, you CANNOT use the phone to provide data access to OTHER devices.

 

Now, there is no confusion. Unlimted data use ON YOUR PHONE. Not using your phone to provide unlimited data use to ANOTHER DEVICE.

 

 

 


I have no problem with you telling me about the TOS and whatnot but aren't you still using that data you paid for through that phone? Haha.

 

No, you are using the phone as a router. Routers, as you know, don't USE data. They just ROUTE data.

 

This seems to be the crux of the confusion.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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ACE - Professor

 


Dellman87 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.
I think I heard somewhere that only the united states companies (wireless carriers) make you pay for tethering. Other campaniles don't. Can someone confirm this?

 

Here, let's check in the UK with O2:

 

http://service.o2.co.uk/IQ/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE/,/?St=12,E=0000000003005985796,K=2450,Sxi=14,T=te...

 

Oh my... a "Bolt On" is required. That's an extra Tarif. Which is British for "charge for a service"

 

How about Canada... Oh Canada?

 

Rogers appears to allow sharing, but only gives you .5GB on their $30 plan, rolling up to a max of $65 for 5GB. So, yeah, it costs the same as the hotspot plan for the same amount of data. Awesome.

 

I don't have time to check every other carrier, but clearly this myth is busted.

 

 

 


Dellman87 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
To all: I was under the impression we would have to pay $45 extra just for tethering. Now, to someone who said no companies give tether for free, wrong. Maybe in the USA but that just proves how Americans like to be screwed over. When discussing arguments you should try to understand the other point of view first. Most of you started defending AT&T without analyzing what I was trying to say. It's simple. You buy the phone, the phone has the capability to do something else with a service you already bought then why charge more? Stop thinking about contracts and terms for a minute and tell me it doesn't make sense. That's all.
I think I heard somewhere that only the united states companies (wireless carriers) make you pay for tethering. Other campaniles don't. Can someone confirm this?

 

Here, let's check in the UK with O2:

 

http://service.o2.co.uk/IQ/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE/,/?St=12,E=0000000003005985796,K=2450,Sxi=14,T=test_main,Problem=11820,varset_BBDISP=Internet%20Tethering,question=ref%28User%29:str%28Mobile%29

 

Oh my... a "Bolt On" is required. That's an extra Tarif. Which is British for "charge for a service"

 

How about Canada... Oh Canada?

 

Rogers appears to allow sharing, but only gives you .5GB on their $30 plan, rolling up to a max of $65 for 5GB. So, yeah, it costs the same as the hotspot plan for the same amount of data. Awesome.

 

I don't have time to check every other carrier, but clearly this myth is busted.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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johninsj wrote:
No, you are using the phone as a router. Routers, as you know, don't USE data. They just ROUTE data.

 

This seems to be the crux of the confusion.


 

When comcast sells you their service, do they charge you for how many devices are on that router? No. They sell you a service and let you choose how you want to use it.

 

I'm saying that at&t should let me use MY service however I want. I understand if its just tethering to my IPad, I would certainly be ok with tethering to just one device for free using my plan. I use about 1.5 gb a month via my IPhone. I'm certainly got a greedy poweruser.

 


johninsj wrote:
No, you are using the phone as a router. Routers, as you know, don't USE data. They just ROUTE data.

 

This seems to be the crux of the confusion.


 

When comcast sells you their service, do they charge you for how many devices are on that router? No. They sell you a service and let you choose how you want to use it.

 

I'm saying that at&t should let me use MY service however I want. I understand if its just tethering to my IPad, I would certainly be ok with tethering to just one device for free using my plan. I use about 1.5 gb a month via my IPhone. I'm certainly got a greedy poweruser.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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johninsj wrote:

 

I don't have time to check every other carrier, but clearly this myth is busted.

 

 


Why do you think I asked someone else to check it? ;-)

 

 


johninsj wrote:

 

I don't have time to check every other carrier, but clearly this myth is busted.

 

 


Why do you think I asked someone else to check it? ;-)

 

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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Dellman87 wrote:

johninsj wrote:

 

 

You want free hotspot/tethering. You can't have it. That about covers the discussion.


Technically you CAN have it, it's just frowned upon when you do it without paying more.


after the 27th of this month you will be able to have it only if you pay for the correct plan, if you continue tethering after the 27th ATT will change your current plan to bring it into compliance with the carrrier terms of service. All of which is perfeclty within their rights - so no termination without ETF available


Dellman87 wrote:

johninsj wrote:

 

 

You want free hotspot/tethering. You can't have it. That about covers the discussion.


Technically you CAN have it, it's just frowned upon when you do it without paying more.


after the 27th of this month you will be able to have it only if you pay for the correct plan, if you continue tethering after the 27th ATT will change your current plan to bring it into compliance with the carrrier terms of service. All of which is perfeclty within their rights - so no termination without ETF available

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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johninsj wrote:

  

No, you are using the phone as a router. Routers, as you know, don't USE data. They just ROUTE data.

 

This seems to be the crux of the confusion.


It would still be considered using the phone as a gateway. When tethering phones today, they will set up as network adapters in the system properties of the PC. The exact same way a router shows up. Tethering is no longer a service that the providers provide, it is a feature of the phone that the carriers disable so they can turn around and sell the same feature back to you. The whole complication is when you have unlimited data. Someone can use 20MB of data and only pay the same price of someone that uses 3GB. The comparison to broadband is valid, but one must remember that broadband carriers now have data caps as well, so there won't be the same unlimited situation in that comparison. One is free to "tether" as many devices off of their cable/dsl modem all they want. When you go over the cap, you pay extra.


johninsj wrote:

  

No, you are using the phone as a router. Routers, as you know, don't USE data. They just ROUTE data.

 

This seems to be the crux of the confusion.


It would still be considered using the phone as a gateway. When tethering phones today, they will set up as network adapters in the system properties of the PC. The exact same way a router shows up. Tethering is no longer a service that the providers provide, it is a feature of the phone that the carriers disable so they can turn around and sell the same feature back to you. The whole complication is when you have unlimited data. Someone can use 20MB of data and only pay the same price of someone that uses 3GB. The comparison to broadband is valid, but one must remember that broadband carriers now have data caps as well, so there won't be the same unlimited situation in that comparison. One is free to "tether" as many devices off of their cable/dsl modem all they want. When you go over the cap, you pay extra.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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qb.84 wrote:

archermoo wrote:

 


qb.84 wrote:

I never said I wanted something for nothing. I said if I'm paying for 2 GB what difference does it make to use it on my phone or laptop.


 

First of all, you seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that AT&T charges an extra fee just for the ability to use tethering.  They don't.  They just charge you for a minimum of 4GB of data for the plan that includes tethering, instead of the 2GB minimum for the larger non-tethering plan.

Second, as to what difference it makes, you are paying for an account that lets you use at most 2GB per month without generating extra charges.  AT&T based what they charge for that plan on how much data they have determined that the average user will actually use on that plan per month.  Which I'm guessing is well short of 2GB.  When people start tethering other devices that are not as limited as the iPhone as to what they can do, their usage will go up.  But unless they are using their phone as their main home broadband connection I'm guessing that most people will still not go over 2GB, but they'll likely go well over what they would use with just the phone.  Meaning that AT&T is having to provide a lot more bandwidth for no extra compensation.

 

Their solution for that?  My first point.  Charge up front for 4GB of data instead of just 2.

 

Am I happy about it?  Not particularly.  But I understand why they are doing it.


 

Um... No extra compensation??

 

What if I go over 2 GB? DataPro 2 GB for iPhone includes 2 GB of data for use in the U.S. If 2 GB is exceeded, an additional 1 GB is automatically provided at a rate of $10 for each additional 1 GB.

 

why can't we just use this instead of forcing us to pay more?


 

Did you even bother reading my post? I already answered your question.

 

The standard business model in the US for ISPs is that light users of their service subsidize the more intense users.  This is how they were able to start offering unlimited plans in the first place.  Figure out how much data the average user is using, and charge based on that.  People using less than that end up subsidizing the service of those that use more than that.

 


qb.84 wrote:

archermoo wrote:

 


qb.84 wrote:

I never said I wanted something for nothing. I said if I'm paying for 2 GB what difference does it make to use it on my phone or laptop.


 

First of all, you seem to be operating under the misunderstanding that AT&T charges an extra fee just for the ability to use tethering.  They don't.  They just charge you for a minimum of 4GB of data for the plan that includes tethering, instead of the 2GB minimum for the larger non-tethering plan.

Second, as to what difference it makes, you are paying for an account that lets you use at most 2GB per month without generating extra charges.  AT&T based what they charge for that plan on how much data they have determined that the average user will actually use on that plan per month.  Which I'm guessing is well short of 2GB.  When people start tethering other devices that are not as limited as the iPhone as to what they can do, their usage will go up.  But unless they are using their phone as their main home broadband connection I'm guessing that most people will still not go over 2GB, but they'll likely go well over what they would use with just the phone.  Meaning that AT&T is having to provide a lot more bandwidth for no extra compensation.

 

Their solution for that?  My first point.  Charge up front for 4GB of data instead of just 2.

 

Am I happy about it?  Not particularly.  But I understand why they are doing it.


 

Um... No extra compensation??

 

What if I go over 2 GB? DataPro 2 GB for iPhone includes 2 GB of data for use in the U.S. If 2 GB is exceeded, an additional 1 GB is automatically provided at a rate of $10 for each additional 1 GB.

 

why can't we just use this instead of forcing us to pay more?


 

Did you even bother reading my post? I already answered your question.

 

The standard business model in the US for ISPs is that light users of their service subsidize the more intense users.  This is how they were able to start offering unlimited plans in the first place.  Figure out how much data the average user is using, and charge based on that.  People using less than that end up subsidizing the service of those that use more than that.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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wingrider01 wrote:

Dellman87 wrote:

johninsj wrote:

 

 

You want free hotspot/tethering. You can't have it. That about covers the discussion.


Technically you CAN have it, it's just frowned upon when you do it without paying more.


after the 27th of this month you will be able to have it only if you pay for the correct plan, if you continue tethering after the 27th ATT will change your current plan to bring it into compliance with the carrrier terms of service. All of which is perfeclty within their rights - so no termination without ETF available


Do you have proof of this 27th date? I heard it was only if you got that text / letter that they will auto enroll you if you don't respond to it.

wingrider01 wrote:

Dellman87 wrote:

johninsj wrote:

 

 

You want free hotspot/tethering. You can't have it. That about covers the discussion.


Technically you CAN have it, it's just frowned upon when you do it without paying more.


after the 27th of this month you will be able to have it only if you pay for the correct plan, if you continue tethering after the 27th ATT will change your current plan to bring it into compliance with the carrrier terms of service. All of which is perfeclty within their rights - so no termination without ETF available


Do you have proof of this 27th date? I heard it was only if you got that text / letter that they will auto enroll you if you don't respond to it.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


I guess you've never heard of JoikuSpot (google it) that was around long before any US carriers even knew you could tether with WiFi.

 

 


wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


I guess you've never heard of JoikuSpot (google it) that was around long before any US carriers even knew you could tether with WiFi.

 

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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akd_data wrote:
Lets explain it like this: You by some glasses. the frames are yours (phone) with your att service you get the lenses (connection) and a book written on sticky note pads (your formated data plan) You pay for this each month. Now if you want to read the full version hard cover book, (tethering) you have to pay extra, because its harder to get to you. This should help explain WHY tethering packages are more expensive. you are not paying double, or extra for something you already paid for. you only paid for the sticky note pad version.

Is that really how you think tethering works?  That's it's a different version of the 0s and 1s that make data?  That it's "harder to get to you" if you tether than directly on the phone?  That is the most ridiculous thing I have read so far on this forum.  Well done sir.

 

 


akd_data wrote:
Lets explain it like this: You by some glasses. the frames are yours (phone) with your att service you get the lenses (connection) and a book written on sticky note pads (your formated data plan) You pay for this each month. Now if you want to read the full version hard cover book, (tethering) you have to pay extra, because its harder to get to you. This should help explain WHY tethering packages are more expensive. you are not paying double, or extra for something you already paid for. you only paid for the sticky note pad version.

Is that really how you think tethering works?  That's it's a different version of the 0s and 1s that make data?  That it's "harder to get to you" if you tether than directly on the phone?  That is the most ridiculous thing I have read so far on this forum.  Well done sir.

 

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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If you tether you will use more.  It's a given...  No matter how many times people try and argue the fact.  Most sites automatically tone down their websites on broswers tagged as mobile.  You have to manual switch them as full to view them.  The size of their mobile versions are usualy 1/10 or smaller the size of their original version.  When you browse using your computer you will ALWAYS get the full version of the website.  You could easily use 2-3x the data you normally would in the same time period.  That doesn't even include streaming, plugins flash(advertisements) or downloading.  You are able to do more with your laptop/desktop than you currently can with your phone.

 

So to me his anology is somewhat correct, but poor delivery.

If you tether you will use more.  It's a given...  No matter how many times people try and argue the fact.  Most sites automatically tone down their websites on broswers tagged as mobile.  You have to manual switch them as full to view them.  The size of their mobile versions are usualy 1/10 or smaller the size of their original version.  When you browse using your computer you will ALWAYS get the full version of the website.  You could easily use 2-3x the data you normally would in the same time period.  That doesn't even include streaming, plugins flash(advertisements) or downloading.  You are able to do more with your laptop/desktop than you currently can with your phone.

 

So to me his anology is somewhat correct, but poor delivery.

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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cpbreton wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


I guess you've never heard of JoikuSpot (google it) that was around long before any US carriers even knew you could tether with WiFi.

 


surprised that is still around, it changes nothing, tethering without the feature code is still a violation of the terms of service for the carrier plan


cpbreton wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


I guess you've never heard of JoikuSpot (google it) that was around long before any US carriers even knew you could tether with WiFi.

 


surprised that is still around, it changes nothing, tethering without the feature code is still a violation of the terms of service for the carrier plan

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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Tidbits wrote:

If you tether you will use more.  It's a given...  No matter how many times people try and argue the fact.  Most sites automatically tone down their websites on browsers tagged as mobile.  You have to manual switch them as full to view them.  The size of their mobile versions are usually 1/10 or smaller the size of their original version.  When you browse using your computer you will ALWAYS get the full version of the website.  You could easily use 2-3x the data you normally would in the same time period.  That doesn't even include streaming, plugins flash(advertisements) or downloading.  You are able to do more with your laptop/desktop than you currently can with your phone.

 

So to me his analogy is somewhat correct, but poor delivery.


Let me start out by saying that I recognize this started as a discussion about the iPhone but I think that the issue of tethering as double billing and a ripoff cuts across all phones.  Many android phones now come with the built in ability to become mobile access points/hotspots but that option is crippled until an appropriate data plan is subscribed to as with the iPhone.  Android phones, also come with Flash so the laptop vs phone argument begins to fall apart especially as phones become more and more capable of handling high quality streaming video/audio.
Many people have made the strong argument that tethering is it was originally conceived was a service provided by the carrier that was accomplished typically through a USB cable but sometimes over Bluetooth.  But then along came the addition of WiFi to most phones and suddenly the phone manufacturers and many third party innovators began to realize the potential for sharing the 3G/2G/EDGE connection from the carrier, through the WiFi device built into the phone.  Now since the Carriers were all having a grand old time charging for their "tethering-as-a-service" they saw no reason to change the billing model and crafted their TOS to ensure that they could continue to make money off of something that they have very little to do with.  
Data is Data is Data.  As someone else said already it's all just 0s and 1s and anyone who thinks differently is either woefully ignorant or maliciously deceiving others.  If someone pays for 2GB of Data, they should be allowed to use that 2GB of Data however they see fit.  AT&T has plenty of safeguards for bandwidth hogs as they can collect an additional $10 each time a user gets to that next GB of data.  So if a customer has a 2GB data plan and they are typically using 1GB but sometimes want to connect their laptop why should they need to purchase an additional 2GB of Data?
If the argument that computers are better able to suck down Data than phones and their use will hurt the rest of the subscribers, then the practice should be banned entirely since AT&T isn't giving the extra money they collect from the tethering users to compensate the rest of us who have crummy service.  Following that line of argument the more advanced the phones become the more like computers they will be at sucking down bandwidth.  What about phones like Motorola's Atrix?  Is that tethering?  Looks like I'm accessing the internet with a full keyboard and monitor but it's running off the phone (http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/Atrix-Accessories-Page/Atrix-A...
By allowing AT&T, Verizon, Sprint or any other carrier to say how you may, or may not use your Data based on a TOS agreement is complete and utter surrender to the corporations.  That's what has always surprised me about Americans because on the one hand they espouse a love of Freedom, and while many Americans deride their own government for trying to take away their Freedom they willingly hand it over the corporations from whom there is zero accountability.

 

 


Tidbits wrote:

If you tether you will use more.  It's a given...  No matter how many times people try and argue the fact.  Most sites automatically tone down their websites on browsers tagged as mobile.  You have to manual switch them as full to view them.  The size of their mobile versions are usually 1/10 or smaller the size of their original version.  When you browse using your computer you will ALWAYS get the full version of the website.  You could easily use 2-3x the data you normally would in the same time period.  That doesn't even include streaming, plugins flash(advertisements) or downloading.  You are able to do more with your laptop/desktop than you currently can with your phone.

 

So to me his analogy is somewhat correct, but poor delivery.


Let me start out by saying that I recognize this started as a discussion about the iPhone but I think that the issue of tethering as double billing and a ripoff cuts across all phones.  Many android phones now come with the built in ability to become mobile access points/hotspots but that option is crippled until an appropriate data plan is subscribed to as with the iPhone.  Android phones, also come with Flash so the laptop vs phone argument begins to fall apart especially as phones become more and more capable of handling high quality streaming video/audio.
Many people have made the strong argument that tethering is it was originally conceived was a service provided by the carrier that was accomplished typically through a USB cable but sometimes over Bluetooth.  But then along came the addition of WiFi to most phones and suddenly the phone manufacturers and many third party innovators began to realize the potential for sharing the 3G/2G/EDGE connection from the carrier, through the WiFi device built into the phone.  Now since the Carriers were all having a grand old time charging for their "tethering-as-a-service" they saw no reason to change the billing model and crafted their TOS to ensure that they could continue to make money off of something that they have very little to do with.  
Data is Data is Data.  As someone else said already it's all just 0s and 1s and anyone who thinks differently is either woefully ignorant or maliciously deceiving others.  If someone pays for 2GB of Data, they should be allowed to use that 2GB of Data however they see fit.  AT&T has plenty of safeguards for bandwidth hogs as they can collect an additional $10 each time a user gets to that next GB of data.  So if a customer has a 2GB data plan and they are typically using 1GB but sometimes want to connect their laptop why should they need to purchase an additional 2GB of Data?
If the argument that computers are better able to suck down Data than phones and their use will hurt the rest of the subscribers, then the practice should be banned entirely since AT&T isn't giving the extra money they collect from the tethering users to compensate the rest of us who have crummy service.  Following that line of argument the more advanced the phones become the more like computers they will be at sucking down bandwidth.  What about phones like Motorola's Atrix?  Is that tethering?  Looks like I'm accessing the internet with a full keyboard and monitor but it's running off the phone (http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/Atrix-Accessories-Page/Atrix-Accessories).
By allowing AT&T, Verizon, Sprint or any other carrier to say how you may, or may not use your Data based on a TOS agreement is complete and utter surrender to the corporations.  That's what has always surprised me about Americans because on the one hand they espouse a love of Freedom, and while many Americans deride their own government for trying to take away their Freedom they willingly hand it over the corporations from whom there is zero accountability.

 

Re: Tethering = Double Billing, AT&T Ripoff

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wingrider01 wrote:

cpbreton wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


I guess you've never heard of JoikuSpot (google it) that was around long before any US carriers even knew you could tether with WiFi.

 


surprised that is still around, it changes nothing, tethering without the feature code is still a violation of the terms of service for the carrier plan


You're gonna keep pretending you don't work for AT&T?  Who the heck uses terms like "feature code" that isn't an employee?

 

 


wingrider01 wrote:

cpbreton wrote:

 


wingrider01 wrote:

qb.84 wrote:
Hey, you're right if we can both agree that this service is not provided by them but is something the iPhone can do on it's own. That's the point I'm trying to make. This is not about their terms, this is about why their terms need to change. I don't want free service, I want fair service.

this is about people wanting a feature for nothing -- plain simple end of discussiion, No carrier providers a tethering feature for free, nothing new goes back to the first smartphone tat wsa released to the unwashed masses, the tethering feature has NEVER been free


I guess you've never heard of JoikuSpot (google it) that was around long before any US carriers even knew you could tether with WiFi.

 


surprised that is still around, it changes nothing, tethering without the feature code is still a violation of the terms of service for the carrier plan


You're gonna keep pretending you don't work for AT&T?  Who the heck uses terms like "feature code" that isn't an employee?

 

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