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Posted Jul 25, 2010
10:13:19 PM
Free Bumper...What A Joke!!!

I get on the free bumper app, order it...just got notification today mine won't ship until October 8...

 

LOL you will have to buy one in the meantime before your free one shows up...

 

What a mess....two month wait for a free item??? LOL I'll just pay for my Speck case.

 

Nice PR stunt...fail.

I get on the free bumper app, order it...just got notification today mine won't ship until October 8...

 

LOL you will have to buy one in the meantime before your free one shows up...

 

What a mess....two month wait for a free item??? LOL I'll just pay for my Speck case.

 

Nice PR stunt...fail.

Free Bumper...What A Joke!!!

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Aug 3, 2010 9:25:00 AM
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ACE - Professor

 


J_and_R_fo_life wrote:

It IS just like every other phone out there in that even with the technology, it's not going to be perfect. But for the price the customers pay, it should darn well be close to perfect.


You should drop into the Nokia n900 forums and see what people say about that $600 smart phone. It's a lot of things, but close to perfect isn't one of them Smiley Wink

 

 


J_and_R_fo_life wrote:

It IS just like every other phone out there in that even with the technology, it's not going to be perfect. But for the price the customers pay, it should darn well be close to perfect.


You should drop into the Nokia n900 forums and see what people say about that $600 smart phone. It's a lot of things, but close to perfect isn't one of them Smiley Wink

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Aug 3, 2010 10:28:59 AM
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Hi all,

Is there a survey on who does and does not see the deathgrip effect ?

Thanks,

 

 

Hi all,

Is there a survey on who does and does not see the deathgrip effect ?

Thanks,

 

 

Re: Free Bumper...What A Joke!!!

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Aug 3, 2010 10:43:12 AM
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Teacher
Edited by J_and_R_fo_life on Aug 3, 2010 at 10:54:22 AM

Um...yeah. Comparing prices, the IPhone is actually $100-150 more than other smartphones out there. And I paid a little more than $199 for the IPhone...and being a student, that's not exactly cheap. So "out the wazoo" was an appropriate statement I believe.

 

The root of the problem doesn't lie solely with Apple. It's political in that companies are quick to take your money in getting what they need but take their sweet time in getting you what you need.

 

Again, just because something is free doesn't mean it should lack quality. Is that how you feel about Veteran Healthcare? Because from the sound of it, you would tell a WWII vet that because his healthcare is free, his family shouldn't complain that the wait times are long, the patient care is poor, the meds don't work, the surgeries are botched and because it's free, he shouldn't expect to be treated like a human being. 

 

I realize it may seem like I veered off subject, but I can't stand hearing people say that "free is free, so quit complaining."

Um...yeah. Comparing prices, the IPhone is actually $100-150 more than other smartphones out there. And I paid a little more than $199 for the IPhone...and being a student, that's not exactly cheap. So "out the wazoo" was an appropriate statement I believe.

 

The root of the problem doesn't lie solely with Apple. It's political in that companies are quick to take your money in getting what they need but take their sweet time in getting you what you need.

 

Again, just because something is free doesn't mean it should lack quality. Is that how you feel about Veteran Healthcare? Because from the sound of it, you would tell a WWII vet that because his healthcare is free, his family shouldn't complain that the wait times are long, the patient care is poor, the meds don't work, the surgeries are botched and because it's free, he shouldn't expect to be treated like a human being. 

 

I realize it may seem like I veered off subject, but I can't stand hearing people say that "free is free, so quit complaining."

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Aug 3, 2010 11:03:02 AM
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Guru

 


J_and_R_fo_life wrote:

Um...yeah. Comparing prices, the IPhone is actually $100-150 more than other smartphones out there. And I paid a little more than $199 for the IPhone...and being a student, that's not exactly cheap. So "out the wazoo" was an appropriate statement I believe.

 


Where are you seeing smartphones comparable to the iPhone for $50?

 

 


J_and_R_fo_life wrote:

Um...yeah. Comparing prices, the IPhone is actually $100-150 more than other smartphones out there. And I paid a little more than $199 for the IPhone...and being a student, that's not exactly cheap. So "out the wazoo" was an appropriate statement I believe.

 


Where are you seeing smartphones comparable to the iPhone for $50?

 

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Aug 3, 2010 12:36:33 PM
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Professor
Yeah, personally, I don't buy things I can't afford, or place unrealistically high standard such as 'perfection' on man made things. If buying something for a certain price is tantamount to "selling one's soul," then I'd say it's probably something he or she shouldn't have bought in the first place. But that's just me. I'm older than the typical student, but I learned long before I stopped being one that there's no such thing as perfection in any case. For those who are having problems, there are a few remedies. Wait for the free bumper or case, buy a case on your own, return it for full refund within the 30 day return period, etc. come to mind. As always, doing neither and continuing to complain is still available. And well used.
Yeah, personally, I don't buy things I can't afford, or place unrealistically high standard such as 'perfection' on man made things. If buying something for a certain price is tantamount to "selling one's soul," then I'd say it's probably something he or she shouldn't have bought in the first place. But that's just me. I'm older than the typical student, but I learned long before I stopped being one that there's no such thing as perfection in any case. For those who are having problems, there are a few remedies. Wait for the free bumper or case, buy a case on your own, return it for full refund within the 30 day return period, etc. come to mind. As always, doing neither and continuing to complain is still available. And well used.

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Aug 3, 2010 1:11:49 PM
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Edited by Glomag on Aug 3, 2010 at 1:32:46 PM

you're absolutely right....there is little perfection anywhere. however i'm getting the impression that some of you just come here to {word filter evasion} at people who came to vent. my intentions were in replying to this:

 


 

Re: Free Bumper...What A Joke!!! 

you are really going to complain about getting something free? completely free. don't have to pay shipping, nothing? these were 30$ plus shipping. lol comon man. plus every smartphone has an antenna that goes in and out when you cover it. people are making a huge deal out of nothing just because its apple and an iphone. if it was any other phone no one would have said anything.


 

Consumer reports blasted Apple and to avoid lawsuits, they tried to make a peace offering with the Case Program. However, when you're charging people's credit cards and telling them they have to wait 6-8 weeks for a case, customers realize the lack of integrity. I haven't even gotten my phone yet and may NEVER have any problems with it. I'm simply sharing my understanding of treatment that many consumers experience. Someone here and there is going to have a problem with the way an issue is handled. You can't please everyone. And I don't expect my phone to be perfect by any means. All I'm saying is that a company should do all they can to appease a PAYING CUSTOMER short of paying them out of their pocket. People on here are putting Apple up on a pedestal and freaking out when people start complaining that there are issues. Reading this entire topic just proves my point. Customers who have issues with the phone come here to vent and talk amongst others experiencing the same in hopes that they may get ideas on how to handle the problem or gain knowledge through someone else's mistake. But those of you who think the product is flawless come on here and rip everyone else for bashing a bad experience. So because a customer service agent was rude to me and refused to cancel my order means I should go with a Nokia? It's alright to complain about how a company has handled something and still use their services. Sometimes the benefits outweigh the risks. 

Again...just because it's free doesn't mean people should have to wait 2-3 months for it. The program expires September 30. Funny....they'll probably still have them on backorder long after people are no longer able to apply for them.

you're absolutely right....there is little perfection anywhere. however i'm getting the impression that some of you just come here to {word filter evasion} at people who came to vent. my intentions were in replying to this:

 


 

Re: Free Bumper...What A Joke!!! 

you are really going to complain about getting something free? completely free. don't have to pay shipping, nothing? these were 30$ plus shipping. lol comon man. plus every smartphone has an antenna that goes in and out when you cover it. people are making a huge deal out of nothing just because its apple and an iphone. if it was any other phone no one would have said anything.


 

Consumer reports blasted Apple and to avoid lawsuits, they tried to make a peace offering with the Case Program. However, when you're charging people's credit cards and telling them they have to wait 6-8 weeks for a case, customers realize the lack of integrity. I haven't even gotten my phone yet and may NEVER have any problems with it. I'm simply sharing my understanding of treatment that many consumers experience. Someone here and there is going to have a problem with the way an issue is handled. You can't please everyone. And I don't expect my phone to be perfect by any means. All I'm saying is that a company should do all they can to appease a PAYING CUSTOMER short of paying them out of their pocket. People on here are putting Apple up on a pedestal and freaking out when people start complaining that there are issues. Reading this entire topic just proves my point. Customers who have issues with the phone come here to vent and talk amongst others experiencing the same in hopes that they may get ideas on how to handle the problem or gain knowledge through someone else's mistake. But those of you who think the product is flawless come on here and rip everyone else for bashing a bad experience. So because a customer service agent was rude to me and refused to cancel my order means I should go with a Nokia? It's alright to complain about how a company has handled something and still use their services. Sometimes the benefits outweigh the risks. 

Again...just because it's free doesn't mean people should have to wait 2-3 months for it. The program expires September 30. Funny....they'll probably still have them on backorder long after people are no longer able to apply for them.

Re: Free Bumper...What A Joke!!!

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Aug 5, 2010 4:32:12 AM
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Yep. Either way, good luck in finding that perfect phone. The one that's "flawless," and has zero problems.
Yep. Either way, good luck in finding that perfect phone. The one that's "flawless," and has zero problems.

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Aug 5, 2010 5:03:24 AM
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Hey SLK,

Why is it so hard for you to admit that iPhone 4's "fault" is the antannae placement problem.  Like with all things, good in theory, but not practical.  Stop hatin the disappointed iphone4 users.  Gessh,

Hey SLK,

Why is it so hard for you to admit that iPhone 4's "fault" is the antannae placement problem.  Like with all things, good in theory, but not practical.  Stop hatin the disappointed iphone4 users.  Gessh,

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Aug 5, 2010 5:09:54 AM
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Jackal30 wrote:

Hey SLK,

Why is it so hard for you to admit that iPhone 4's "fault" is the antannae placement problem.  Like with all things, good in theory, but not practical.  Stop hatin the disappointed iphone4 users.  Gessh,


really - you are a antenna design engineer and have reviewed the specifications and formula's used for the antenna placement yop br able to verify that this asi actually a design fault - or are you just going by speculation? You do realize that not everyone is complaining about the antenna issue. have numerous friends that have the 4 and have not expierenced the issue. 


Jackal30 wrote:

Hey SLK,

Why is it so hard for you to admit that iPhone 4's "fault" is the antannae placement problem.  Like with all things, good in theory, but not practical.  Stop hatin the disappointed iphone4 users.  Gessh,


really - you are a antenna design engineer and have reviewed the specifications and formula's used for the antenna placement yop br able to verify that this asi actually a design fault - or are you just going by speculation? You do realize that not everyone is complaining about the antenna issue. have numerous friends that have the 4 and have not expierenced the issue. 

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Aug 5, 2010 5:16:07 AM
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Not an engineer but a scientist never-the-less.  So Comusmer report was a lie ?  my own eyes are lying to me ?  1000s of other users are lying ?  All have said this occurrs when iphone is fully enclosed by the hand and doens't occur to iphones level by other smartphones.  It is what is it.  It's DATA and only ppl's interpretations are askewed !  I'm learning to live with it w/o the free case that this thread is about.

Not an engineer but a scientist never-the-less.  So Comusmer report was a lie ?  my own eyes are lying to me ?  1000s of other users are lying ?  All have said this occurrs when iphone is fully enclosed by the hand and doens't occur to iphones level by other smartphones.  It is what is it.  It's DATA and only ppl's interpretations are askewed !  I'm learning to live with it w/o the free case that this thread is about.

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Aug 5, 2010 8:32:36 AM
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Jackal30 wrote:

Not an engineer but a scientist never-the-less.  So Comusmer report was a lie ?  my own eyes are lying to me ?  1000s of other users are lying ?  All have said this occurrs when iphone is fully enclosed by the hand and doens't occur to iphones level by other smartphones.  It is what is it.  It's DATA and only ppl's interpretations are askewed !  I'm learning to live with it w/o the free case that this thread is about.


600K sold first day, state count so 3 million sold worldwide and 1000's complaining, as a scientist you should be able to do the math to get the percentage of true complaints. Never said it was a lie - you should not read into statements what you want to see. It is way overblown by the media 


Jackal30 wrote:

Not an engineer but a scientist never-the-less.  So Comusmer report was a lie ?  my own eyes are lying to me ?  1000s of other users are lying ?  All have said this occurrs when iphone is fully enclosed by the hand and doens't occur to iphones level by other smartphones.  It is what is it.  It's DATA and only ppl's interpretations are askewed !  I'm learning to live with it w/o the free case that this thread is about.


600K sold first day, state count so 3 million sold worldwide and 1000's complaining, as a scientist you should be able to do the math to get the percentage of true complaints. Never said it was a lie - you should not read into statements what you want to see. It is way overblown by the media 

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Aug 5, 2010 9:54:01 AM
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Here's most ppl's rational thinking. 

1) My iphone attenuates signal when held by hand but I either have a case or live few miles away from a cell tower; therefore, my calls don't drop so it must be an overblown problem.

2) I have attenuation of signal and sometime I get my calls dropped.  Others have demonstrated/explained the reason for this therefore, a problem exists !

 

Which one are you ?

Here's most ppl's rational thinking. 

1) My iphone attenuates signal when held by hand but I either have a case or live few miles away from a cell tower; therefore, my calls don't drop so it must be an overblown problem.

2) I have attenuation of signal and sometime I get my calls dropped.  Others have demonstrated/explained the reason for this therefore, a problem exists !

 

Which one are you ?

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Aug 5, 2010 12:28:05 PM
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Jackal30 wrote:

Here's most ppl's rational thinking. 

1) My iphone attenuates signal when held by hand but I either have a case or live few miles away from a cell tower; therefore, my calls don't drop so it must be an overblown problem.

2) I have attenuation of signal and sometime I get my calls dropped.  Others have demonstrated/explained the reason for this therefore, a problem exists !

 

Which one are you ?


That is a classic example of a false dichotomy. You're assuming there are only those two choices when there could be others, such as:

 

3) I have experienced no attentuation of signal problems at all, so others who are experiencing the problem must be doing something wrong, or are unfortunate enough to have a handset that has a problem.

 

 


Jackal30 wrote:

Here's most ppl's rational thinking. 

1) My iphone attenuates signal when held by hand but I either have a case or live few miles away from a cell tower; therefore, my calls don't drop so it must be an overblown problem.

2) I have attenuation of signal and sometime I get my calls dropped.  Others have demonstrated/explained the reason for this therefore, a problem exists !

 

Which one are you ?


That is a classic example of a false dichotomy. You're assuming there are only those two choices when there could be others, such as:

 

3) I have experienced no attentuation of signal problems at all, so others who are experiencing the problem must be doing something wrong, or are unfortunate enough to have a handset that has a problem.

 

 

Posted from my iPhone 4. Look at me I'm hot and nerdy.

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Edited by Caretaker on Aug 6, 2010 at 6:06:09 AM

 

Starfall wrote:

That is a classic example of a false dichotomy. You're assuming there are only those two choices when there could be others, such as:

 

3) I have experienced no attentuation of signal problems at all, so others who are experiencing the problem must be doing something wrong, or are unfortunate enough to have a handset that has a problem.

 


 

So what I'm not understanding is the fact that those of you posting on this forum who aren't experiencing said problems are clearly creepers. If you aren't experiencing the discussed issues, then good for you, you got a flawless phone. So go away. And those of us who are must be doing something wrong? Yeah...holding the phone up to your ear to talk into it...the same way millions of people have done in the past ever since Bell invented the telephone is INCORRECT HANDLING of the phone. Give me a freakin break. Funny how you guys are saying that the media has blown it out of proportion. If that was the case, Apple wouldn't have wasted their breath calling a conference to recognize the issue. They would've just laughed it off and made "no comment". But again....like I've been saying...everyone expects a cheap { word filter evasion } phone to mess up, drop calls, etc. And even though, the iphone isn't flawless, dropped calls should be the last thing an apple or at&t customer has to worry about. Of all the things that could go wrong with the tech-advanced phone, it's an antennae issue? That's why people are upset. You don't pay top dollar for something this easily fixable to go wrong. 

 

But for those of you who aren't having issues with your iphone, congratulations. Now why are you creeping on these topics if it has nothing to do with you? Bored? Need drama? Or are the at&t apple forums the only thing you know how to do on your iphones?

 

Starfall wrote:

That is a classic example of a false dichotomy. You're assuming there are only those two choices when there could be others, such as:

 

3) I have experienced no attentuation of signal problems at all, so others who are experiencing the problem must be doing something wrong, or are unfortunate enough to have a handset that has a problem.

 


 

So what I'm not understanding is the fact that those of you posting on this forum who aren't experiencing said problems are clearly creepers. If you aren't experiencing the discussed issues, then good for you, you got a flawless phone. So go away. And those of us who are must be doing something wrong? Yeah...holding the phone up to your ear to talk into it...the same way millions of people have done in the past ever since Bell invented the telephone is INCORRECT HANDLING of the phone. Give me a freakin break. Funny how you guys are saying that the media has blown it out of proportion. If that was the case, Apple wouldn't have wasted their breath calling a conference to recognize the issue. They would've just laughed it off and made "no comment". But again....like I've been saying...everyone expects a cheap { word filter evasion } phone to mess up, drop calls, etc. And even though, the iphone isn't flawless, dropped calls should be the last thing an apple or at&t customer has to worry about. Of all the things that could go wrong with the tech-advanced phone, it's an antennae issue? That's why people are upset. You don't pay top dollar for something this easily fixable to go wrong. 

 

But for those of you who aren't having issues with your iphone, congratulations. Now why are you creeping on these topics if it has nothing to do with you? Bored? Need drama? Or are the at&t apple forums the only thing you know how to do on your iphones?

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Aug 5, 2010 1:04:24 PM
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Your #3 is disputing the fact that "all" antanenae attenuates signal when shorted (Apple's word).  You are refuting the fact that when iPhone 4 is enclosed by left hand, reception decreases (yes or no ?).  Comsumer Reports demonstrated this FACT.  You are inducing (not deducing) that since yours do not drop calls that there is no attenuation of signal.  Very FAULTY logic indeed.

Your #3 is disputing the fact that "all" antanenae attenuates signal when shorted (Apple's word).  You are refuting the fact that when iPhone 4 is enclosed by left hand, reception decreases (yes or no ?).  Comsumer Reports demonstrated this FACT.  You are inducing (not deducing) that since yours do not drop calls that there is no attenuation of signal.  Very FAULTY logic indeed.

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Aug 5, 2010 1:09:44 PM
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Over 3 millions sold ???  How many delivered ???  To those in crappy reception areas more susceptible to signal attenuation caused by enclosing the iPhone4 in left had ???   Complaints registered ???  Who knows.  Complainers not online forums ???  Who knows.

I shouldn't of put out that  theroretical numbers, my bad.

 

 

Over 3 millions sold ???  How many delivered ???  To those in crappy reception areas more susceptible to signal attenuation caused by enclosing the iPhone4 in left had ???   Complaints registered ???  Who knows.  Complainers not online forums ???  Who knows.

I shouldn't of put out that  theroretical numbers, my bad.

 

 

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Jackal30 wrote:

Your #3 is disputing the fact that "all" antanenae attenuates signal when shorted (Apple's word).  You are refuting the fact that when iPhone 4 is enclosed by left hand, reception decreases (yes or no ?).  Comsumer Reports demonstrated this FACT.  You are inducing (not deducing) that since yours do not drop calls that there is no attenuation of signal.  Very FAULTY logic indeed.


you are 100 percent correct, your logic is faulty.

 

Not going to bother with refuting your faultly logic, since the numbers do not match what you are claiming. Would not bet the farm on what Consumer Reports, have seen them wrong before. Curious to see exactly how many phones they tested, would suspect a very small percent of total phones tested say 1 or 2. As a scientist you should be able to agree that the percentage of devices tested as compared to total number of devices ae woefully short of a valid percentage to draw the conclusion.

 

Might want to  go back a read what I said, I did not say miine,  I stated that a number of friends and associates have the Iphone 4 and they have not expierenced the issue, and a couple of them are left handed - would hazard a guess that the number is higher then the number of devices that Consumer Reports tested.


Jackal30 wrote:

Your #3 is disputing the fact that "all" antanenae attenuates signal when shorted (Apple's word).  You are refuting the fact that when iPhone 4 is enclosed by left hand, reception decreases (yes or no ?).  Comsumer Reports demonstrated this FACT.  You are inducing (not deducing) that since yours do not drop calls that there is no attenuation of signal.  Very FAULTY logic indeed.


you are 100 percent correct, your logic is faulty.

 

Not going to bother with refuting your faultly logic, since the numbers do not match what you are claiming. Would not bet the farm on what Consumer Reports, have seen them wrong before. Curious to see exactly how many phones they tested, would suspect a very small percent of total phones tested say 1 or 2. As a scientist you should be able to agree that the percentage of devices tested as compared to total number of devices ae woefully short of a valid percentage to draw the conclusion.

 

Might want to  go back a read what I said, I did not say miine,  I stated that a number of friends and associates have the Iphone 4 and they have not expierenced the issue, and a couple of them are left handed - would hazard a guess that the number is higher then the number of devices that Consumer Reports tested.

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Aug 5, 2010 1:18:33 PM
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Edited by wingrider01 on Aug 5, 2010 at 1:19:19 PM

Jackal30 wrote:

Over 3 millions sold ???  How many delivered ???  To those in crappy reception areas more susceptible to signal attenuation caused by enclosing the iPhone4 in left had ???   Complaints registered ???  Who knows.  Complainers not online forums ???  Who knows.

I shouldn't of put out that  theroretical numbers, my bad.

 

 


try searching for the numbers, they have been reported, or do you not believe in investigation? Even the total percentage of reports to Apple have been reported, so the documentation is out there


Jackal30 wrote:

Over 3 millions sold ???  How many delivered ???  To those in crappy reception areas more susceptible to signal attenuation caused by enclosing the iPhone4 in left had ???   Complaints registered ???  Who knows.  Complainers not online forums ???  Who knows.

I shouldn't of put out that  theroretical numbers, my bad.

 

 


try searching for the numbers, they have been reported, or do you not believe in investigation? Even the total percentage of reports to Apple have been reported, so the documentation is out there

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Teacher

 


Jackal30 wrote:

Your #3 is disputing the fact that "all" antanenae attenuates signal when shorted (Apple's word).  You are refuting the fact that when iPhone 4 is enclosed by left hand, reception decreases (yes or no ?).  Comsumer Reports demonstrated this FACT.  You are inducing (not deducing) that since yours do not drop calls that there is no attenuation of signal.  Very FAULTY logic indeed.


 

Very good point on those clearly using inductive reasoning as the basis for their comments. I guess some people don't understand the difference. Those who have had no issues with the phone basically assume that those of us who are having problems are wrong and incapable of using a phone. Whereas, those of us who are experiencing problems understand that it is not an overall issue. We clearly understand that not everyone experiences what we experience. We're just simply stating that some phones are faulty while others are not. Those who are using inductive reasoning conclude that because their phones work just fine, the rest of us are either just lying or still very primitive in our knowledge of technology and can't properly use a phone. 

 

With a small basis of this discussion being rooted in Sociology and Psychology, it's evident that people who use inductive reasoning tend to generalize things without fully thinking them through. Inductive thinkers logically think that when cooking a meal, if you burn it, you'll burn it again the next time you attempt it. When there is absolutely no reliability to that assumption whatsoever.

 


Jackal30 wrote:

Your #3 is disputing the fact that "all" antanenae attenuates signal when shorted (Apple's word).  You are refuting the fact that when iPhone 4 is enclosed by left hand, reception decreases (yes or no ?).  Comsumer Reports demonstrated this FACT.  You are inducing (not deducing) that since yours do not drop calls that there is no attenuation of signal.  Very FAULTY logic indeed.


 

Very good point on those clearly using inductive reasoning as the basis for their comments. I guess some people don't understand the difference. Those who have had no issues with the phone basically assume that those of us who are having problems are wrong and incapable of using a phone. Whereas, those of us who are experiencing problems understand that it is not an overall issue. We clearly understand that not everyone experiences what we experience. We're just simply stating that some phones are faulty while others are not. Those who are using inductive reasoning conclude that because their phones work just fine, the rest of us are either just lying or still very primitive in our knowledge of technology and can't properly use a phone. 

 

With a small basis of this discussion being rooted in Sociology and Psychology, it's evident that people who use inductive reasoning tend to generalize things without fully thinking them through. Inductive thinkers logically think that when cooking a meal, if you burn it, you'll burn it again the next time you attempt it. When there is absolutely no reliability to that assumption whatsoever.

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J_and_R_fo_life wrote:

 


Jackal30 wrote:

Your #3 is disputing the fact that "all" antanenae attenuates signal when shorted (Apple's word).  You are refuting the fact that when iPhone 4 is enclosed by left hand, reception decreases (yes or no ?).  Comsumer Reports demonstrated this FACT.  You are inducing (not deducing) that since yours do not drop calls that there is no attenuation of signal.  Very FAULTY logic indeed.


 

Very good point on those clearly using inductive reasoning as the basis for their comments. I guess some people don't understand the difference. Those who have had no issues with the phone basically assume that those of us who are having problems are wrong and incapable of using a phone. Whereas, those of us who are experiencing problems understand that it is not an overall issue. We clearly understand that not everyone experiences what we experience. We're just simply stating that some phones are faulty while others are not. Those who are using inductive reasoning conclude that because their phones work just fine, the rest of us are either just lying or still very primitive in our knowledge of technology and can't properly use a phone. 

 

With a small basis of this discussion being rooted in Sociology and Psychology, it's evident that people who use inductive reasoning tend to generalize things without fully thinking them through. Inductive thinkers logically think that when cooking a meal, if you burn it, you'll burn it again the next time you attempt it. When there is absolutely no reliability to that assumption whatsoever.


nice disertation - never said the problem did not occur, problem s the issue is so overblown that it has grown enough to be classified a urban legend. The are probably people that there that do expierence the issue, but the percentage is a a lot less then what the various national enquier style websites report. Proper investigation would require a 10 percent base line of devices tested to come up with a valid conclusion, testing 3 or 4 devices is no where near a valid comparision.


J_and_R_fo_life wrote:

 


Jackal30 wrote:

Your #3 is disputing the fact that "all" antanenae attenuates signal when shorted (Apple's word).  You are refuting the fact that when iPhone 4 is enclosed by left hand, reception decreases (yes or no ?).  Comsumer Reports demonstrated this FACT.  You are inducing (not deducing) that since yours do not drop calls that there is no attenuation of signal.  Very FAULTY logic indeed.


 

Very good point on those clearly using inductive reasoning as the basis for their comments. I guess some people don't understand the difference. Those who have had no issues with the phone basically assume that those of us who are having problems are wrong and incapable of using a phone. Whereas, those of us who are experiencing problems understand that it is not an overall issue. We clearly understand that not everyone experiences what we experience. We're just simply stating that some phones are faulty while others are not. Those who are using inductive reasoning conclude that because their phones work just fine, the rest of us are either just lying or still very primitive in our knowledge of technology and can't properly use a phone. 

 

With a small basis of this discussion being rooted in Sociology and Psychology, it's evident that people who use inductive reasoning tend to generalize things without fully thinking them through. Inductive thinkers logically think that when cooking a meal, if you burn it, you'll burn it again the next time you attempt it. When there is absolutely no reliability to that assumption whatsoever.


nice disertation - never said the problem did not occur, problem s the issue is so overblown that it has grown enough to be classified a urban legend. The are probably people that there that do expierence the issue, but the percentage is a a lot less then what the various national enquier style websites report. Proper investigation would require a 10 percent base line of devices tested to come up with a valid conclusion, testing 3 or 4 devices is no where near a valid comparision.

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Edited by Jettubby on Aug 5, 2010 at 6:20:13 PM

I can tell you as a user of every single iPhone model that has been made; the iPhone4 definitely has a reception issue. I just got my iPhone4 a week ago and use it in all the same exact locations that I was using my 3G and 3GS and this phone is driving me nuts! It drops calls and goes from 4-5 bars to none sitting in the exact same place. I get my daughters 3G and use it in the exact same spots and no dropped calls or reception issues.

 

Took the phone to the ATT store and they said you have to have a case on it or you absolutely WILL get recepton issues and dropped calls. What?! How could Apple release a device like this obviously knowing about the problem?! I will be honest; at first I thought the reception issue was a hype or at the least something trumped up to be worse than it is by the anti-Apple folks but I'm a believer now. This phone has reception/antenna issues. I like the phone itself a lot, but because of the reception issues I'm considering returning it.

I can tell you as a user of every single iPhone model that has been made; the iPhone4 definitely has a reception issue. I just got my iPhone4 a week ago and use it in all the same exact locations that I was using my 3G and 3GS and this phone is driving me nuts! It drops calls and goes from 4-5 bars to none sitting in the exact same place. I get my daughters 3G and use it in the exact same spots and no dropped calls or reception issues.

 

Took the phone to the ATT store and they said you have to have a case on it or you absolutely WILL get recepton issues and dropped calls. What?! How could Apple release a device like this obviously knowing about the problem?! I will be honest; at first I thought the reception issue was a hype or at the least something trumped up to be worse than it is by the anti-Apple folks but I'm a believer now. This phone has reception/antenna issues. I like the phone itself a lot, but because of the reception issues I'm considering returning it.

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I've used every iPhone model also. Never had and still don't have any issue with the reported issues. No one - not one - out of approximately 40 - 50 of my family, friends and acquaintances who have bought the iPhone 4 have had this problem. Not one. I don't say anyone who does have this problem is lying. Indeed, I understand that there is always going to be a small percentage of any electronics users who'll have problems. So of course they exist. What I'm befuddled by is why it is that those who do experience issues seem to find it so hard to believe that not everyone else does.
I've used every iPhone model also. Never had and still don't have any issue with the reported issues. No one - not one - out of approximately 40 - 50 of my family, friends and acquaintances who have bought the iPhone 4 have had this problem. Not one. I don't say anyone who does have this problem is lying. Indeed, I understand that there is always going to be a small percentage of any electronics users who'll have problems. So of course they exist. What I'm befuddled by is why it is that those who do experience issues seem to find it so hard to believe that not everyone else does.

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Edited by Caretaker on Aug 6, 2010 at 6:04:17 AM

 


J_and_R_fo_life wrote:

 

 

So what I'm not understanding is the fact that those of you posting on this forum who aren't experiencing said problems are clearly creepers. If you aren't experiencing the discussed issues, then good for you, you got a flawless phone. So go away. And those of us who are must be doing something wrong? Yeah...holding the phone up to your ear to talk into it...the same way millions of people have done in the past ever since Bell invented the telephone is INCORRECT HANDLING of the phone. Give me a freakin break. Funny how you guys are saying that the media has blown it out of proportion. If that was the case, Apple wouldn't have wasted their breath calling a conference to recognize the issue. They would've just laughed it off and made "no comment". But again....like I've been saying...everyone expects a cheap { word filter evasion } phone to mess up, drop calls, etc. And even though, the iphone isn't flawless, dropped calls should be the last thing an apple or at&t customer has to worry about. Of all the things that could go wrong with the tech-advanced phone, it's an antennae issue? That's why people are upset. You don't pay top dollar for something this easily fixable to go wrong. 

 

But for those of you who aren't having issues with your iphone, congratulations. Now why are you creeping on these topics if it has nothing to do with you? Bored? Need drama? Or are the at&t apple forums the only thing you know how to do on your iphones?


 

I'm not defending nor attacking Apple for whatever they decide to do with the antenna issue. Obviously they have a lot of PR damage control to do, but that's not what I'm getting at here.

 

Here's a clue: it's called personal experience. I have always held my phones the same way since I've had cell phones. I have experienced no problems with my iPhone 4 since I got it. I'm not denying that other people have had problems, but since I'm not, obviously I must be doing something right. I don't see what the logical problem is here. 

 

As it was pointed out several times already, if you hold a radio transmitter in a way that attenuates the antenna, you will experience signal degradation. That's a simple fact. However, some people have the problem, and some don't. A more exhaustive examination of the problem would at least attempt to determine why this happens. 

 

And I'm not going away. You're not a moderator and you're not an admin of this forum. If you don't like my posts, { Please keep it courteous } . Either refute me on the facts, or don't read my posts. And if you think I'm on this forum 24/7, all you have to do is look at my posting history to prove your hypothesis wrong. 

 

Just because you can post something on this forum doesn't mean everyone else should just swoon and sing the praises of your infallibility. People are going to disagree with you. Live with it. 

 


J_and_R_fo_life wrote:

 

 

So what I'm not understanding is the fact that those of you posting on this forum who aren't experiencing said problems are clearly creepers. If you aren't experiencing the discussed issues, then good for you, you got a flawless phone. So go away. And those of us who are must be doing something wrong? Yeah...holding the phone up to your ear to talk into it...the same way millions of people have done in the past ever since Bell invented the telephone is INCORRECT HANDLING of the phone. Give me a freakin break. Funny how you guys are saying that the media has blown it out of proportion. If that was the case, Apple wouldn't have wasted their breath calling a conference to recognize the issue. They would've just laughed it off and made "no comment". But again....like I've been saying...everyone expects a cheap { word filter evasion } phone to mess up, drop calls, etc. And even though, the iphone isn't flawless, dropped calls should be the last thing an apple or at&t customer has to worry about. Of all the things that could go wrong with the tech-advanced phone, it's an antennae issue? That's why people are upset. You don't pay top dollar for something this easily fixable to go wrong. 

 

But for those of you who aren't having issues with your iphone, congratulations. Now why are you creeping on these topics if it has nothing to do with you? Bored? Need drama? Or are the at&t apple forums the only thing you know how to do on your iphones?


 

I'm not defending nor attacking Apple for whatever they decide to do with the antenna issue. Obviously they have a lot of PR damage control to do, but that's not what I'm getting at here.

 

Here's a clue: it's called personal experience. I have always held my phones the same way since I've had cell phones. I have experienced no problems with my iPhone 4 since I got it. I'm not denying that other people have had problems, but since I'm not, obviously I must be doing something right. I don't see what the logical problem is here. 

 

As it was pointed out several times already, if you hold a radio transmitter in a way that attenuates the antenna, you will experience signal degradation. That's a simple fact. However, some people have the problem, and some don't. A more exhaustive examination of the problem would at least attempt to determine why this happens. 

 

And I'm not going away. You're not a moderator and you're not an admin of this forum. If you don't like my posts, { Please keep it courteous } . Either refute me on the facts, or don't read my posts. And if you think I'm on this forum 24/7, all you have to do is look at my posting history to prove your hypothesis wrong. 

 

Just because you can post something on this forum doesn't mean everyone else should just swoon and sing the praises of your infallibility. People are going to disagree with you. Live with it. 

Posted from my iPhone 4. Look at me I'm hot and nerdy.

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Edited by Starfall on Aug 6, 2010 at 2:28:11 AM

 


Jackal30 wrote:

Your #3 is disputing the fact that "all" antanenae attenuates signal when shorted (Apple's word).  You are refuting the fact that when iPhone 4 is enclosed by left hand, reception decreases (yes or no ?).  Comsumer Reports demonstrated this FACT.  You are inducing (not deducing) that since yours do not drop calls that there is no attenuation of signal.  Very FAULTY logic indeed.


 

Obviously reading comprehension is not your strong suit. All I did was present the possibility that there might be more than just two options. Whether or not there's a factual basis for Consumer Reports (and they're not infallible, that much is known), the problem remains that while there might be a lot of people having problems, there's equally voluminous numbers of users with iPhones that have reported not one single problem. 

 

You don't get the right to ignore evidence that doesn't back up your claim simply because it's inconvenient.

 

If I were to perform an actual scientific test of the attenuation issue, I'd attempt to eliminate every variable I could so I could reproduce the problem consistently. Why do some left handers experience the problem, and some don't? Why do some people who grip their iPhone tightly have this issue, but others don't?

 

And until Consumer Reports (or any other entity) is able to do that, it'll take a lot more than a few tests with iPhones for me to accept that this is an established hardware problem. 

 


Jackal30 wrote:

Your #3 is disputing the fact that "all" antanenae attenuates signal when shorted (Apple's word).  You are refuting the fact that when iPhone 4 is enclosed by left hand, reception decreases (yes or no ?).  Comsumer Reports demonstrated this FACT.  You are inducing (not deducing) that since yours do not drop calls that there is no attenuation of signal.  Very FAULTY logic indeed.


 

Obviously reading comprehension is not your strong suit. All I did was present the possibility that there might be more than just two options. Whether or not there's a factual basis for Consumer Reports (and they're not infallible, that much is known), the problem remains that while there might be a lot of people having problems, there's equally voluminous numbers of users with iPhones that have reported not one single problem. 

 

You don't get the right to ignore evidence that doesn't back up your claim simply because it's inconvenient.

 

If I were to perform an actual scientific test of the attenuation issue, I'd attempt to eliminate every variable I could so I could reproduce the problem consistently. Why do some left handers experience the problem, and some don't? Why do some people who grip their iPhone tightly have this issue, but others don't?

 

And until Consumer Reports (or any other entity) is able to do that, it'll take a lot more than a few tests with iPhones for me to accept that this is an established hardware problem. 

Posted from my iPhone 4. Look at me I'm hot and nerdy.

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Glad you admit that there is "some" problem with "some" of the phones.  However, if you believe Jobs' comment that all antannea attuenuates then iphone antannae does too.  iPhones 4 antanea (due to it's location) attenuate more !  That's what people (consumers and independent testers) are reporting.  You questions the random sampling of this data.  Well in manufacturing it's obvious that you can't test all the items therefore random representative samples are taken (1:10000) for QC.  Now since all the items are manufacture identically (if not you're SOL) any fails will have to be investigated for that LOT.  But Apple did not, or else this "blown up" complaints will not be coming in.  Therefore, I refute that this is a case of few batches of bad iPhones.  It's safe to conclude that it's a systematic problem of intended design.

Glad you admit that there is "some" problem with "some" of the phones.  However, if you believe Jobs' comment that all antannea attuenuates then iphone antannae does too.  iPhones 4 antanea (due to it's location) attenuate more !  That's what people (consumers and independent testers) are reporting.  You questions the random sampling of this data.  Well in manufacturing it's obvious that you can't test all the items therefore random representative samples are taken (1:10000) for QC.  Now since all the items are manufacture identically (if not you're SOL) any fails will have to be investigated for that LOT.  But Apple did not, or else this "blown up" complaints will not be coming in.  Therefore, I refute that this is a case of few batches of bad iPhones.  It's safe to conclude that it's a systematic problem of intended design.

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Once again, I'm trying to explain to you that due to the antanena issue, people who get weak signals will get worse signal (drop calls) due to the attenuation of the extrnal antannea (design issue) of the iPhone 4.  That is all, we are not attacking the happy people but saying that there is A problem.  I'm truely happy for you and your friends but some of us have problem WITH the phone and not with ourselves.

Once again, I'm trying to explain to you that due to the antanena issue, people who get weak signals will get worse signal (drop calls) due to the attenuation of the extrnal antannea (design issue) of the iPhone 4.  That is all, we are not attacking the happy people but saying that there is A problem.  I'm truely happy for you and your friends but some of us have problem WITH the phone and not with ourselves.

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Well, I must be more electrifying that you !  LOL.   Glad you're not having problems.  My contention is that with ATT's crappy network in some areas, iPhone4's antenna had compunded the signal reception problem.  That is all.  A person's hand is not the problem.

Well, I must be more electrifying that you !  LOL.   Glad you're not having problems.  My contention is that with ATT's crappy network in some areas, iPhone4's antenna had compunded the signal reception problem.  That is all.  A person's hand is not the problem.

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As a typical non-scientific reasoning, you are introducing bias to the issue.  I can repeat what others have reported 100% of the time.  I'm not attacking the people with no problems as "FANS".  I'm defending the problem as it exists.

Words like "overblown",  "minimal" is condescending.   And I despise know-it-alls !  LOL.

 

As a typical non-scientific reasoning, you are introducing bias to the issue.  I can repeat what others have reported 100% of the time.  I'm not attacking the people with no problems as "FANS".  I'm defending the problem as it exists.

Words like "overblown",  "minimal" is condescending.   And I despise know-it-alls !  LOL.

 

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Jackal30 wrote:

Well, I must be more electrifying that you !  LOL.   Glad you're not having problems.  My contention is that with ATT's crappy network in some areas, iPhone4's antenna had compunded the signal reception problem.  That is all.  A person's hand is not the problem.


hmm, one thng we agree on, ATT, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile - none of them promise 100 percent coverage in 100 percent of theor service area. You are making an assumption that a call drop in a location that has poor coverage is because of the antenna design and not the simple fact that the is poor coverage. Personally do not expect to continue a call if there are 2 bars or less of signal strength, especially if I am moving around that can drop the signal strenght below that 2 bars. All phones, All carriers expierence this problem, simple reason I carry a smartphone from ever tier 1/2 provider for when I travel on business, same reason why we hold contracts with every tier 1/2 provider and issue phones depending on the expiernece of the provider.

 

It is at the point that if anyone drops a call on a Iphone 4 they blame it on the antenna no matter what if that is the case or not - that is overblown and reactionary. No matter what you claim, unless you have a way of showing if the dropped calls are the cause of the antenna problem or just no service.  Have proven to friends that their are sections in the home area that just do not have cell coverage, 30 feet on either side of the the point there is 5 bar coverage for ALL major providers, move through the section and no matte what provider or phone you have the call drops - now is this an antenna problem or a terrain problem? If the use that expierences the issue at ths point is a Iphone 4 issue guess what - it is the "crappy antenna design" - makes no matter if it occurs on all providers and all phones, it is definately a crappy design on the iphone antenna

 


Jackal30 wrote:

Well, I must be more electrifying that you !  LOL.   Glad you're not having problems.  My contention is that with ATT's crappy network in some areas, iPhone4's antenna had compunded the signal reception problem.  That is all.  A person's hand is not the problem.


hmm, one thng we agree on, ATT, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile - none of them promise 100 percent coverage in 100 percent of theor service area. You are making an assumption that a call drop in a location that has poor coverage is because of the antenna design and not the simple fact that the is poor coverage. Personally do not expect to continue a call if there are 2 bars or less of signal strength, especially if I am moving around that can drop the signal strenght below that 2 bars. All phones, All carriers expierence this problem, simple reason I carry a smartphone from ever tier 1/2 provider for when I travel on business, same reason why we hold contracts with every tier 1/2 provider and issue phones depending on the expiernece of the provider.

 

It is at the point that if anyone drops a call on a Iphone 4 they blame it on the antenna no matter what if that is the case or not - that is overblown and reactionary. No matter what you claim, unless you have a way of showing if the dropped calls are the cause of the antenna problem or just no service.  Have proven to friends that their are sections in the home area that just do not have cell coverage, 30 feet on either side of the the point there is 5 bar coverage for ALL major providers, move through the section and no matte what provider or phone you have the call drops - now is this an antenna problem or a terrain problem? If the use that expierences the issue at ths point is a Iphone 4 issue guess what - it is the "crappy antenna design" - makes no matter if it occurs on all providers and all phones, it is definately a crappy design on the iphone antenna

 

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Jackal30 wrote:

As a typical non-scientific reasoning, you are introducing bias to the issue.  I can repeat what others have reported 100% of the time.  I'm not attacking the people with no problems as "FANS".  I'm defending the problem as it exists.

Words like "overblown",  "minimal" is condescending.   And I despise know-it-alls !  LOL.

 


so you are drawing conslusion on repeated comments, narrow thinking on your point. Look through the thread, there are people that have the phones reporting they are not expierencing the problem - how do you factor that it?

 

this is two things we agree on - a record


Jackal30 wrote:

As a typical non-scientific reasoning, you are introducing bias to the issue.  I can repeat what others have reported 100% of the time.  I'm not attacking the people with no problems as "FANS".  I'm defending the problem as it exists.

Words like "overblown",  "minimal" is condescending.   And I despise know-it-alls !  LOL.

 


so you are drawing conslusion on repeated comments, narrow thinking on your point. Look through the thread, there are people that have the phones reporting they are not expierencing the problem - how do you factor that it?

 

this is two things we agree on - a record

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