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Posted Jun 16, 2010
11:56:27 AM
ETF Question and selling iphone 4

Three people on my wireless plan (family members) are eligible for an upgrade. They have all preordered the iphone 4, but dont really want it. If they were to go pick them up at the store and ask to activate at home themselves but sell them on ebay, what kind of fees or penalties could happen? What are the risks?

Three people on my wireless plan (family members) are eligible for an upgrade. They have all preordered the iphone 4, but dont really want it. If they were to go pick them up at the store and ask to activate at home themselves but sell them on ebay, what kind of fees or penalties could happen? What are the risks?

ETF Question and selling iphone 4

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Jun 16, 2010 11:57:34 AM
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350 per line

350 per line

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Jun 16, 2010 12:06:58 PM
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Edited by josephz2va on Jun 16, 2010 at 12:07:40 PM

After 30 days that applies. There's a restock fee but no $350 charge. After the 30 days if you are unsatisfied, it's not charged.

After 30 days that applies. There's a restock fee but no $350 charge. After the 30 days if you are unsatisfied, it's not charged.

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Jun 16, 2010 12:09:55 PM
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josephz2va wrote:

After 30 days that applies. There's a restock fee but no $350 charge. After the 30 days if you are unsatisfied, it's not charged.


thats true, but he asks about selling the phones on ebay

josephz2va wrote:

After 30 days that applies. There's a restock fee but no $350 charge. After the 30 days if you are unsatisfied, it's not charged.


thats true, but he asks about selling the phones on ebay

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Jun 16, 2010 12:27:06 PM
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Also, don't you have to wait 30 days to pay the EFT and cancel?  If think if it's less than 30, you have to return the phone.

 

Seems if they preordered the phone and don't want it, best thing to do is cancel it now.  Getting it in hopes of quickly flipping it on eBay for big bucks seems risky.

Also, don't you have to wait 30 days to pay the EFT and cancel?  If think if it's less than 30, you have to return the phone.

 

Seems if they preordered the phone and don't want it, best thing to do is cancel it now.  Getting it in hopes of quickly flipping it on eBay for big bucks seems risky.

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Jun 16, 2010 12:59:02 PM
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So the real answer is if i get it for $300 and sell it for 1100 on ebay. THe ETF and other fees will probably cancel it out. Making this move illogical?

So the real answer is if i get it for $300 and sell it for 1100 on ebay. THe ETF and other fees will probably cancel it out. Making this move illogical?

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Jun 16, 2010 1:00:15 PM
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Also if i have the 3gs and i want an iphone 4 but am not eligible for the 2 year price can i have one of them buy the new phone and then just activate it under my number? Will this bring me any fees?

Also if i have the 3gs and i want an iphone 4 but am not eligible for the 2 year price can i have one of them buy the new phone and then just activate it under my number? Will this bring me any fees?

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Jun 16, 2010 1:01:23 PM
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Edited by dwill05 on Jun 16, 2010 at 1:03:31 PM

Well, if you buy it for $300, then cancel and pay the $350 EFT, and sell it for $1100, you obviously make money.  But, who's to say you'll be able to sell it for $1100?

 

I think for people on the Family Plan, someone on the plan can transfer their upgrade eligibilty to another person on the plan, so you should be able to do that.

Well, if you buy it for $300, then cancel and pay the $350 EFT, and sell it for $1100, you obviously make money.  But, who's to say you'll be able to sell it for $1100?

 

I think for people on the Family Plan, someone on the plan can transfer their upgrade eligibilty to another person on the plan, so you should be able to do that.

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Jun 16, 2010 1:23:30 PM
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lucid155 wrote:

So the real answer is if i get it for $300 and sell it for 1100 on ebay. THe ETF and other fees will probably cancel it out. Making this move illogical?


 

Why would someone buy an iphone 4 at $1100 when Apple will sell it to you for $699 and no committment?  Yes there will be some who want it on day one who cannot wait for fresh stock to come in the next day or so........

 

If you think you have it figured out, go for it! 

 

[Rant on] I hate how folks ask here how to scam the system causing the rest of us to have to jump through more hoops the next time as Apple and ATT try to close these loopholes...[Rant Off]

_____________________

For service or support questions including existing order status, call:
Customer Support: 1-800-331-0500

Information on iPhone unlocking can be found here by copying this link into your browser:
https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_US/

 


lucid155 wrote:

So the real answer is if i get it for $300 and sell it for 1100 on ebay. THe ETF and other fees will probably cancel it out. Making this move illogical?


 

Why would someone buy an iphone 4 at $1100 when Apple will sell it to you for $699 and no committment?  Yes there will be some who want it on day one who cannot wait for fresh stock to come in the next day or so........

 

If you think you have it figured out, go for it! 

 

[Rant on] I hate how folks ask here how to scam the system causing the rest of us to have to jump through more hoops the next time as Apple and ATT try to close these loopholes...[Rant Off]

_____________________

For service or support questions including existing order status, call:
Customer Support: 1-800-331-0500

Information on iPhone unlocking can be found here by copying this link into your browser:
https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_US/
Posted from my iPhone _____________________________ For service or support questions including existing order status, call: Customer Support: 1-800-331-0500 Information on iPhone unlocking can be found here by copying this link into your browser: https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_US/

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Jun 16, 2010 1:26:32 PM
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[Rant on] I hate how folks ask here how to scam the system causing the rest of us to have to jump through more hoops the next time as Apple and ATT try to close these loopholes...[Rant Off]


I agree, cancel the preorder and let the people who really want the phone get a chance in the line. Doing stuff like this is why people get higher etf's and stricter guidelines for preorders


[Rant on] I hate how folks ask here how to scam the system causing the rest of us to have to jump through more hoops the next time as Apple and ATT try to close these loopholes...[Rant Off]


I agree, cancel the preorder and let the people who really want the phone get a chance in the line. Doing stuff like this is why people get higher etf's and stricter guidelines for preorders

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Jun 17, 2010 4:30:18 PM
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lucid155 wrote:

So the real answer is if i get it for $300 and sell it for 1100 on ebay. THe ETF and other fees will probably cancel it out. Making this move illogical?


The ETF fee applies only if you cancel your service. You could also keep your service and re-use your old phone. Then you can do whatever you want with your Iphone4.

 

 


lucid155 wrote:

So the real answer is if i get it for $300 and sell it for 1100 on ebay. THe ETF and other fees will probably cancel it out. Making this move illogical?


The ETF fee applies only if you cancel your service. You could also keep your service and re-use your old phone. Then you can do whatever you want with your Iphone4.

 

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Jun 17, 2010 6:29:12 PM
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So i could buy an iphone and sell it and continue to use my 3gs and not have to pay any fees?

So i could buy an iphone and sell it and continue to use my 3gs and not have to pay any fees?

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Jun 17, 2010 6:36:24 PM
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Assuming you're just upgrading your existing number, the SIM in your 3GS will stop working after you activate the 4.  To reactivate the 3GS, I guess you'd have to transfer the microSIM from the 4 to the3GS (if that would work), and sell the 4 without the microSIM.  You'd still be locked into the new contract you signed when you got the 4.

Assuming you're just upgrading your existing number, the SIM in your 3GS will stop working after you activate the 4.  To reactivate the 3GS, I guess you'd have to transfer the microSIM from the 4 to the3GS (if that would work), and sell the 4 without the microSIM.  You'd still be locked into the new contract you signed when you got the 4.

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Jun 17, 2010 7:01:41 PM
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Why don't you just come out and say that you preordered 3 iPhone4s with the intention of selling them on eBay for a profit.  The first 3 people who really wanted it and tried to order the phone but missed out due to depleted stock would like to thank you.

Why don't you just come out and say that you preordered 3 iPhone4s with the intention of selling them on eBay for a profit.  The first 3 people who really wanted it and tried to order the phone but missed out due to depleted stock would like to thank you.

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Jun 17, 2010 7:45:24 PM
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Thats Exactly what im trying to do. But will i get a bunch of fees involved with that? Or can i safely do it?

Thats Exactly what im trying to do. But will i get a bunch of fees involved with that? Or can i safely do it?

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Jun 17, 2010 7:48:30 PM
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youngjm wrote:

 Why would someone buy an iphone 4 at $1100 when Apple will sell it to you for $699 and no committment?  [Rant Off]


Alot, have you been to ebay lately?

 

 


youngjm wrote:

 Why would someone buy an iphone 4 at $1100 when Apple will sell it to you for $699 and no committment?  [Rant Off]


Alot, have you been to ebay lately?

 

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Jun 18, 2010 3:29:13 AM
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lucid155 wrote:

Thats Exactly what im trying to do. But will i get a bunch of fees involved with that? Or can i safely do it?


try it, worse you can do is have a large chunk of change removed form your profi margin so trying to circumnavigate the system and push your next upgrade date out 2 years.

 

Safely do it? Who knows try it and find out


lucid155 wrote:

Thats Exactly what im trying to do. But will i get a bunch of fees involved with that? Or can i safely do it?


try it, worse you can do is have a large chunk of change removed form your profi margin so trying to circumnavigate the system and push your next upgrade date out 2 years.

 

Safely do it? Who knows try it and find out

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Jun 18, 2010 5:27:04 AM
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So long as they don't cancel their lines, there are NO ETFs.  Would the 3 family members just go back to using their old phones?  Keep in mind that none of those lines would be eligible for upgrades for another period of likely 18-21 months.  Additionally, if any of those devices are smartphones that are grandfathered and are being used without data plans, you might lose the grandfathering (and the only scenario I could see around this would be to NEVER activate the phones).  If  you activate the new iPhone and attach the data plan to it prior to selling it, you can't then go back to an old smartphone without keeping the data plan.

 

 

So long as they don't cancel their lines, there are NO ETFs.  Would the 3 family members just go back to using their old phones?  Keep in mind that none of those lines would be eligible for upgrades for another period of likely 18-21 months.  Additionally, if any of those devices are smartphones that are grandfathered and are being used without data plans, you might lose the grandfathering (and the only scenario I could see around this would be to NEVER activate the phones).  If  you activate the new iPhone and attach the data plan to it prior to selling it, you can't then go back to an old smartphone without keeping the data plan.

 

 

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Jun 19, 2010 12:42:18 AM
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So as long as i never even touch teh iphone 4, im good right? How easy will it to be to persuade the apple tech's to activate it on my own?

So as long as i never even touch teh iphone 4, im good right? How easy will it to be to persuade the apple tech's to activate it on my own?

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Jun 19, 2010 12:51:41 AM
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youngjm wrote:

 

Why would someone buy an iphone 4 at $1100 when Apple will sell it to you for $699 and no committment?  Yes there will be some who want it on day one who cannot wait for fresh stock to come in the next day or so........


It's like people paying $2000+ for PS3s when they first came out. iPhone 4s probably won't be in stock in adequate supply until the end of July/Early August.

 

 


youngjm wrote:

 

Why would someone buy an iphone 4 at $1100 when Apple will sell it to you for $699 and no committment?  Yes there will be some who want it on day one who cannot wait for fresh stock to come in the next day or so........


It's like people paying $2000+ for PS3s when they first came out. iPhone 4s probably won't be in stock in adequate supply until the end of July/Early August.

 

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Jun 20, 2010 1:40:09 PM
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Anybody see any flaws in this system? Seems as if it will work so as long as i convince them that i can activate it from home myself. Any more thoughts?

Anybody see any flaws in this system? Seems as if it will work so as long as i convince them that i can activate it from home myself. Any more thoughts?

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Jun 20, 2010 2:15:39 PM
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lucid155 wrote:

Anybody see any flaws in this system? Seems as if it will work so as long as i convince them that i can activate it from home myself. Any more thoughts?


 

There are no flaws in the system.

 

You got the iPhone 4 and pre-ordered it, wether or not you activate it, you signed a new two year contract.

 

If they activate it in the store, dont be alarmed, just go home, and tell them you wanna re-activate your old phone & sim inside your old phone, then the iPhone 4 will be out of contract and in the clear, BUT your old iPhone 3GS or whatever will be stuck in a two year contract.

 

Another option, is too activate a phone other than your 3GS, and get someone to transfer the liability over to someone else, in which you wouldn't still have your 3Gs, but be out a junk phone.

 


lucid155 wrote:

Anybody see any flaws in this system? Seems as if it will work so as long as i convince them that i can activate it from home myself. Any more thoughts?


 

There are no flaws in the system.

 

You got the iPhone 4 and pre-ordered it, wether or not you activate it, you signed a new two year contract.

 

If they activate it in the store, dont be alarmed, just go home, and tell them you wanna re-activate your old phone & sim inside your old phone, then the iPhone 4 will be out of contract and in the clear, BUT your old iPhone 3GS or whatever will be stuck in a two year contract.

 

Another option, is too activate a phone other than your 3GS, and get someone to transfer the liability over to someone else, in which you wouldn't still have your 3Gs, but be out a junk phone.

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Jun 24, 2010 10:01:00 PM
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Got the phones. Is It possible to take them back to the apple store and reactIvate our old iPhones and be able to keep the 4's and sell them with no hidden fees?
Got the phones. Is It possible to take them back to the apple store and reactIvate our old iPhones and be able to keep the 4's and sell them with no hidden fees?

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Jun 25, 2010 12:45:14 PM
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lucid155 wrote:
Got the phones. Is It possible to take them back to the apple store and reactIvate our old iPhones and be able to keep the 4's and sell them with no hidden fees?

 

Sure it is probably possible, You will need to remain under contract since you bought the iPhones at a discount.  You will not be eligible for an upgrade for another 18 to 24 months unless ATT offers a special early upgrade option; If you break one of your current iPHones and need to replace it, expect to pay full price or the early upgrade price that is $200 higher than the subsidized price.  If you have not hooked your new iPhones up yet, your old iPhones should still be working......  If you cancel your contract after 30 days, $350/line.  If you cancel the contract before 30 days, they will expect you to return the iPHones and pay a restocking fee if opened.  If you do not return the iPhones upon cancellation of the contract, they will probably charge you the full price of the iPhone - $599 or $699 depending upon the model.

 

_____________________

For service or support questions including existing order status, call:
Customer Support: 1-800-331-0500

Information on iPhone unlocking can be found here by copying this link into your browser:
https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_US/

 


lucid155 wrote:
Got the phones. Is It possible to take them back to the apple store and reactIvate our old iPhones and be able to keep the 4's and sell them with no hidden fees?

 

Sure it is probably possible, You will need to remain under contract since you bought the iPhones at a discount.  You will not be eligible for an upgrade for another 18 to 24 months unless ATT offers a special early upgrade option; If you break one of your current iPHones and need to replace it, expect to pay full price or the early upgrade price that is $200 higher than the subsidized price.  If you have not hooked your new iPhones up yet, your old iPhones should still be working......  If you cancel your contract after 30 days, $350/line.  If you cancel the contract before 30 days, they will expect you to return the iPHones and pay a restocking fee if opened.  If you do not return the iPhones upon cancellation of the contract, they will probably charge you the full price of the iPhone - $599 or $699 depending upon the model.

 

_____________________

For service or support questions including existing order status, call:
Customer Support: 1-800-331-0500

Information on iPhone unlocking can be found here by copying this link into your browser:
https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_US/
Posted from my iPhone _____________________________ For service or support questions including existing order status, call: Customer Support: 1-800-331-0500 Information on iPhone unlocking can be found here by copying this link into your browser: https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_US/

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Jun 25, 2010 1:48:04 PM
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youngjm wrote:

 


lucid155 wrote:
Got the phones. Is It possible to take them back to the apple store and reactIvate our old iPhones and be able to keep the 4's and sell them with no hidden fees?

 

Sure it is probably possible, You will need to remain under contract since you bought the iPhones at a discount.  You will not be eligible for an upgrade for another 18 to 24 months unless ATT offers a special early upgrade option; If you break one of your current iPHones and need to replace it, expect to pay full price or the early upgrade price that is $200 higher than the subsidized price.  If you have not hooked your new iPhones up yet, your old iPhones should still be working......  If you cancel your contract after 30 days, $350/line.  If you cancel the contract before 30 days, they will expect you to return the iPHones and pay a restocking fee if opened.  If you do not return the iPhones upon cancellation of the contract, they will probably charge you the full price of the iPhone - $599 or $699 depending upon the model.

 


If you break your current iPhone, you should be able to purchase another one for cheap from someone who is getting rid of their 3G or 3GS. Just put your SIM card into the other iPhone... you may have to call AT&T in regard to the IMEI number on the iPhone you acquire from someone else.

 

Next year, when the newer iPhone 5 comes out, people will probably be selling their iPhone 4s like they are right now with 3G and 3GS. You may be a gen or two behind, but it should work out.

 

-C


youngjm wrote:

 


lucid155 wrote:
Got the phones. Is It possible to take them back to the apple store and reactIvate our old iPhones and be able to keep the 4's and sell them with no hidden fees?

 

Sure it is probably possible, You will need to remain under contract since you bought the iPhones at a discount.  You will not be eligible for an upgrade for another 18 to 24 months unless ATT offers a special early upgrade option; If you break one of your current iPHones and need to replace it, expect to pay full price or the early upgrade price that is $200 higher than the subsidized price.  If you have not hooked your new iPhones up yet, your old iPhones should still be working......  If you cancel your contract after 30 days, $350/line.  If you cancel the contract before 30 days, they will expect you to return the iPHones and pay a restocking fee if opened.  If you do not return the iPhones upon cancellation of the contract, they will probably charge you the full price of the iPhone - $599 or $699 depending upon the model.

 


If you break your current iPhone, you should be able to purchase another one for cheap from someone who is getting rid of their 3G or 3GS. Just put your SIM card into the other iPhone... you may have to call AT&T in regard to the IMEI number on the iPhone you acquire from someone else.

 

Next year, when the newer iPhone 5 comes out, people will probably be selling their iPhone 4s like they are right now with 3G and 3GS. You may be a gen or two behind, but it should work out.

 

-C

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Jul 1, 2010 6:56:28 PM
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Edited by brightlightparis on Jul 1, 2010 at 7:00:35 PM

I have a sort of related question to this thread. I read the posts and I kind of understand the gist of it. My question is the people who are selling the iphone 4 on ebay (supposedly unlocked), aren't those phones tied to their (the sellers) names/current accounts?? If one were to buy one, how would the buyer use it? Wouldn't they (the buyer) need to break the contract associated with the seller's account?? (Or is it possible that the seller's have already broken their contract? But if from previous posts a buyer needs to have the phone for 30 days to break the contract and pay the ETF, how are these sellers doing it - taking into account it's the first of July and the phones have only been on the market for 2 weeks)

I have a sort of related question to this thread. I read the posts and I kind of understand the gist of it. My question is the people who are selling the iphone 4 on ebay (supposedly unlocked), aren't those phones tied to their (the sellers) names/current accounts?? If one were to buy one, how would the buyer use it? Wouldn't they (the buyer) need to break the contract associated with the seller's account?? (Or is it possible that the seller's have already broken their contract? But if from previous posts a buyer needs to have the phone for 30 days to break the contract and pay the ETF, how are these sellers doing it - taking into account it's the first of July and the phones have only been on the market for 2 weeks)

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Jul 1, 2010 7:53:09 PM
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lucid155 wrote:
Got the phones. Is It possible to take them back to the apple store and reactIvate our old iPhones and be able to keep the 4's and sell them with no hidden fees?

 

 

Sounds like you guys need to make a decision:

 

A) Keep the phones and try to sell them on eBay. 

 

- If you take this route, there's a slight chance of avoiding an ETF per line if you transfer the lines over to the party that purchases the phones. (Just a thought... Keep in mind they have to pass credit approval and accept the contract terms.)

 

B) Take the phones back to the Apple Store.

 

- If you want a refund (minus any re-stocking fees), you have to return the devices within 30 days. Make sure to bring the receipt!

 

C) Keep the phones, enjoy OS4, and forget about selling them.

 

- Your best option and my recommendation!

 

Well, good luck!

 


lucid155 wrote:
Got the phones. Is It possible to take them back to the apple store and reactIvate our old iPhones and be able to keep the 4's and sell them with no hidden fees?

 

 

Sounds like you guys need to make a decision:

 

A) Keep the phones and try to sell them on eBay. 

 

- If you take this route, there's a slight chance of avoiding an ETF per line if you transfer the lines over to the party that purchases the phones. (Just a thought... Keep in mind they have to pass credit approval and accept the contract terms.)

 

B) Take the phones back to the Apple Store.

 

- If you want a refund (minus any re-stocking fees), you have to return the devices within 30 days. Make sure to bring the receipt!

 

C) Keep the phones, enjoy OS4, and forget about selling them.

 

- Your best option and my recommendation!

 

Well, good luck!

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Jul 1, 2010 8:07:49 PM
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It really amazes me what people will do to try and buck the system.  I hope he loses his butt.

It really amazes me what people will do to try and buck the system.  I hope he loses his butt.

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Jul 1, 2010 9:50:16 PM
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I thought there was no way to get an iPhone from one of the retail outlets (Apple, ATT, BestBuy) without it being activated first.  I thought I heard when the first 3G came out or something and the stores were super busy they would let people take them home and activate throught iTunes but I am no certain.

I thought there was no way to get an iPhone from one of the retail outlets (Apple, ATT, BestBuy) without it being activated first.  I thought I heard when the first 3G came out or something and the stores were super busy they would let people take them home and activate throught iTunes but I am no certain.

Re: ETF Question and selling iphone 4

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Edited by katieeighty on Aug 14, 2010 at 9:33:27 PM

 



bcovish wrote:

It really amazes me what people will do to try and buck the system.  I hope he loses his butt.


 

You clearly do not understand.  He is not bucking the system at all.  Apparently you need a quick economic and contract lesson....

 

The $699 phone is subsidized to $299 under the condition that you purchase a phone plan from ATT and agree to stay on that plan for 24 months (2 years).

 

There is no contractual agreement to keep using the phone or to *ever* use that phone.  The contract is specific to the line/plan.

 

The absolute cheapest plan you can get is $54.99 + tax for 450 minutes, 200MB of data and 0 text or mms.

 

The likely plan is $104.99 + tax for 900 minutes 5gb of data and unlimited text/mms.

 

The 24 months on the cheapest plan will cost you $1391.76

The 24 months on the likely plan will cost you $2519.76

 

As long as ATT gets that $1391 or $2519 from you they are very happy to have you give away your new phone and use an old one for the next two years...

 

The only other way out of the situation is the FORCED BY LAW ETF (what ever happens to personal responsibility?).  In order to go this route, ATT will force you to return the phone unless you wait until 1 month of service is complete (past the 30 day guarantee).

The ETF (Early termination fee) is set at $325 for a good reason.  I guess it's back to 3rd grade math for bcovish:

 

 

  • ETF = $325
  • Activation = $35
  • First Months Service = $54.99 or $104.99 (we'll run both situations in a sec)
  • Phone = $299

 

 

So the phone ATT will sell for retail at $699.99.  Lets compare that to the alternative:

 

 

Retail Cost: $699

Activation, ETF, First Month Service Cheapest Plan Possible, Phone Cost  = $718.99

Activation, ETF, First Month Service Likely Plan , Phone Cost  = $768.99

Lost labor that could be applied to something else ~ 1-2 hours

 

Not to mention all the hassle of having your credit pulled as well as the run around trying to cancel service and then selling the device (Running price right now is $700-800 on eBay before 15% in fees).

 

So what did bcovish learn?

 

ATT sells you the phone at retail for $699.99

If you try to "scam" the system in bcovish's make believe world by leaving and paying the ETF, ATT makes ~$719-768

If you try to "scam" the system in bcovish's make believe world by selling the phone and being hooked into another two year agreement on your old phone, ATT makes $1390-2500 

 

In terms of the pricing that people pay online, a couple things to consider there as well:

 

 

  • Not everyone wants to have their credit pulled or perhaps know they have bad credit.
  • Not everyone has an ATT store close to them
  • Unless they work at McDonalds washing floors, people feel their time is valuable and the 2 hours to do everything above is worth the extra money they pay on eBay.
  • online and in stores the phones are frequently out of stock at apple and att so eBay may be the only place available to get these.

 

 

Dangit people.  The people who setup these plans, ETF fees, subsidized phone pricing, and rules are a bit smarter than the average 3rd grader.  No one is bucking the system by exercising their contractual rights and profiting from the behavior of consumers.

 


To answer the original poster: 

Dude, if you are okay with keeping your plan for another 2 years and using the same old phones (or picking up other phones at a later date) what you are doing is absolutely 100% legal and anyone who tells you differently needs to read their contract, this post and join their kids back in the 3rd grade.

 

God, you people stress me out.

 



bcovish wrote:

It really amazes me what people will do to try and buck the system.  I hope he loses his butt.


 

You clearly do not understand.  He is not bucking the system at all.  Apparently you need a quick economic and contract lesson....

 

The $699 phone is subsidized to $299 under the condition that you purchase a phone plan from ATT and agree to stay on that plan for 24 months (2 years).

 

There is no contractual agreement to keep using the phone or to *ever* use that phone.  The contract is specific to the line/plan.

 

The absolute cheapest plan you can get is $54.99 + tax for 450 minutes, 200MB of data and 0 text or mms.

 

The likely plan is $104.99 + tax for 900 minutes 5gb of data and unlimited text/mms.

 

The 24 months on the cheapest plan will cost you $1391.76

The 24 months on the likely plan will cost you $2519.76

 

As long as ATT gets that $1391 or $2519 from you they are very happy to have you give away your new phone and use an old one for the next two years...

 

The only other way out of the situation is the FORCED BY LAW ETF (what ever happens to personal responsibility?).  In order to go this route, ATT will force you to return the phone unless you wait until 1 month of service is complete (past the 30 day guarantee).

The ETF (Early termination fee) is set at $325 for a good reason.  I guess it's back to 3rd grade math for bcovish:

 

 

  • ETF = $325
  • Activation = $35
  • First Months Service = $54.99 or $104.99 (we'll run both situations in a sec)
  • Phone = $299

 

 

So the phone ATT will sell for retail at $699.99.  Lets compare that to the alternative:

 

 

Retail Cost: $699

Activation, ETF, First Month Service Cheapest Plan Possible, Phone Cost  = $718.99

Activation, ETF, First Month Service Likely Plan , Phone Cost  = $768.99

Lost labor that could be applied to something else ~ 1-2 hours

 

Not to mention all the hassle of having your credit pulled as well as the run around trying to cancel service and then selling the device (Running price right now is $700-800 on eBay before 15% in fees).

 

So what did bcovish learn?

 

ATT sells you the phone at retail for $699.99

If you try to "scam" the system in bcovish's make believe world by leaving and paying the ETF, ATT makes ~$719-768

If you try to "scam" the system in bcovish's make believe world by selling the phone and being hooked into another two year agreement on your old phone, ATT makes $1390-2500 

 

In terms of the pricing that people pay online, a couple things to consider there as well:

 

 

  • Not everyone wants to have their credit pulled or perhaps know they have bad credit.
  • Not everyone has an ATT store close to them
  • Unless they work at McDonalds washing floors, people feel their time is valuable and the 2 hours to do everything above is worth the extra money they pay on eBay.
  • online and in stores the phones are frequently out of stock at apple and att so eBay may be the only place available to get these.

 

 

Dangit people.  The people who setup these plans, ETF fees, subsidized phone pricing, and rules are a bit smarter than the average 3rd grader.  No one is bucking the system by exercising their contractual rights and profiting from the behavior of consumers.

 


To answer the original poster: 

Dude, if you are okay with keeping your plan for another 2 years and using the same old phones (or picking up other phones at a later date) what you are doing is absolutely 100% legal and anyone who tells you differently needs to read their contract, this post and join their kids back in the 3rd grade.

 

God, you people stress me out.

Re: ETF Question and selling iphone 4

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