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Posted May 23, 2010
1:27:22 PM
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Data plan with unlocked phone

A few days ago my trusty blackjack 2 flew out of my pocket while on a roller coaster ride. So now i am looking for a replacement. The problem is, all of the phones that would replace it are smartphones, and all smartphones require the 30$ dollar data plan. That is something i really dont need/ want. My question is, if i buy an unlocked would i be able to bypass that data plan?

A few days ago my trusty blackjack 2 flew out of my pocket while on a roller coaster ride. So now i am looking for a replacement. The problem is, all of the phones that would replace it are smartphones, and all smartphones require the 30$ dollar data plan. That is something i really dont need/ want. My question is, if i buy an unlocked would i be able to bypass that data plan?

Data plan with unlocked phone

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Jul 29, 2010 11:06:55 AM
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Edited by Virtual on Jul 29, 2010 at 11:10:06 AM

adroit4 wrote:

also might help u not pay the ETF since at&t will be terminating ur contract and not u


*facepalm*

 

You MUST pay the ETF if your contract is terminated, doesn't matter if you ask for it or if AT&T does it for you. You agreed to a 2 year contract that if it's not completed they have the right to charge you the ETF and you have the responsibility to pay it.

 

You simply don't like to play with AT&T rules. Well, sorry, that doesn't work that way. You must play with AT&T rules to keep your service, if not, they can terminate your contract whenever they want AND charge the ETF because you wasn't able to complete the 2 year contract you agreed at the beginning.

 

In b4 you're an AT&T employee and AT&T is telling you to say that.

 


I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s positions, strategies or opinions.

adroit4 wrote:

also might help u not pay the ETF since at&t will be terminating ur contract and not u


*facepalm*

 

You MUST pay the ETF if your contract is terminated, doesn't matter if you ask for it or if AT&T does it for you. You agreed to a 2 year contract that if it's not completed they have the right to charge you the ETF and you have the responsibility to pay it.

 

You simply don't like to play with AT&T rules. Well, sorry, that doesn't work that way. You must play with AT&T rules to keep your service, if not, they can terminate your contract whenever they want AND charge the ETF because you wasn't able to complete the 2 year contract you agreed at the beginning.

 

In b4 you're an AT&T employee and AT&T is telling you to say that.

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Jul 29, 2010 11:08:12 AM
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For how long?  AT&T will catch up with you, and they will force you to add a data plan to your Captivate.  You won't be able to game the system indefinitely.  And AT&T won't let you go without paying the ETF, as you are violating the terms of the WSA and Plan Terms.

For how long?  AT&T will catch up with you, and they will force you to add a data plan to your Captivate.  You won't be able to game the system indefinitely.  And AT&T won't let you go without paying the ETF, as you are violating the terms of the WSA and Plan Terms.

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Jul 29, 2010 12:04:47 PM
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Edited by pamelaz on Jul 29, 2010 at 2:10:03 PM

I have a data plan for the captivate, i was referring to the OPs post. I have dodged the data plan before on att for 4 years...i think thats long enough for me to say their {Please keep it courteous}

 

Also with the contracts, if AT&T (or any wireless carrier) terminates the contract from their end, you do not have to pay the ETF (unless your account was not in a good standing due to non payment) since you are complying according to ETF on the contract. This proves my point further about at&t employees taking vandettas without any knowledge, at&t train them better or hire people who think before they talk...reminds me of the whole verizon 2 cents - 2 dollar fiasco. [Removed per Community Guidelines: - Keep it relevant and appropriate -]

 


I have a data plan for the captivate, i was referring to the OPs post. I have dodged the data plan before on att for 4 years...i think thats long enough for me to say their {Please keep it courteous}

 

Also with the contracts, if AT&T (or any wireless carrier) terminates the contract from their end, you do not have to pay the ETF (unless your account was not in a good standing due to non payment) since you are complying according to ETF on the contract. This proves my point further about at&t employees taking vandettas without any knowledge, at&t train them better or hire people who think before they talk...reminds me of the whole verizon 2 cents - 2 dollar fiasco. [Removed per Community Guidelines: - Keep it relevant and appropriate -]

 


Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Jul 29, 2010 12:14:51 PM
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Edited by pamelaz on Jul 29, 2010 at 2:10:24 PM

 


adroit4 wrote:

I have a data plan for the captivate, i was referring to the OPs post. I have dodged the data plan before on att for 4 years...

 

For starters there was nothing to avoid for 4 years. Becuase mandatory data plans didnt start till last year.

 

i think thats long enough for me to say their {Please keep it courteous}

 

Also with the contracts, if AT&T (or any wireless carrier) terminates the contract from their end, you do not have to pay the ETF (unless your account was not in a good standing due to non payment) since you are complying according to ETF on the contract.


And you are still wrong. You will be forced to pay the ETF. Because you violated the terms and conditions it was you that breached the contract not AT&T.

 

This proves my point further about at&t employees taking vandettas without any knowledge, at&t train them better or hire people who think before they talk...reminds me of the whole verizon 2 cents - 2 dollar fiasco. [Removed per Community Guidelines: - Keep it relevant and appropriate -]


What vandettas are you talking about? We are simply stating the terms of service that you are very blatantly ignoring and trying to get others to ignore as well.

 


 

 


adroit4 wrote:

I have a data plan for the captivate, i was referring to the OPs post. I have dodged the data plan before on att for 4 years...

 

For starters there was nothing to avoid for 4 years. Becuase mandatory data plans didnt start till last year.

 

i think thats long enough for me to say their {Please keep it courteous}

 

Also with the contracts, if AT&T (or any wireless carrier) terminates the contract from their end, you do not have to pay the ETF (unless your account was not in a good standing due to non payment) since you are complying according to ETF on the contract.


And you are still wrong. You will be forced to pay the ETF. Because you violated the terms and conditions it was you that breached the contract not AT&T.

 

This proves my point further about at&t employees taking vandettas without any knowledge, at&t train them better or hire people who think before they talk...reminds me of the whole verizon 2 cents - 2 dollar fiasco. [Removed per Community Guidelines: - Keep it relevant and appropriate -]


What vandettas are you talking about? We are simply stating the terms of service that you are very blatantly ignoring and trying to get others to ignore as well.

 


 

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Jul 29, 2010 12:16:21 PM
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Edited by pamelaz on Jul 29, 2010 at 2:10:41 PM

adroit4 wrote:

I have a data plan for the captivate, i was referring to the OPs post. I have dodged the data plan before on att for 4 years...i think thats long enough for me to say their {Please keep it courteous}

You have dodged it for 4 years because until september of last year it wasn't required. So don't come here whining if you get the Data Plan added later and in Customer Service they tell you they can't remove it.

 

The only way you can get the Data Plan removed is if your line was grandfathered to avoid the Data Plan requirement, something that you're not because you already changed your old phone to the Captivate you're using. When changing your phone to another model, upgrade or not, the smartphone data exception is removed and can't be added back.

 

 

Also with the contracts, if AT&T (or any wireless carrier) terminates the contract from their end, you do not have to pay the ETF (unless your account was not in a good standing due to non payment) since you are complying according to ETF on the contract. This proves my point further about at&t employees taking vandettas without any knowledge, at&t train them better or hire people who think before they talk...reminds me of the whole verizon 2 cents - 2 dollar fiasco. [Removed per Community Guidelines: - Keep it relevant and appropriate -]

Yes, they can. Again, you're not commiting to the 2 year contract, they have all the right to charge you the ETF. Don't want to pay it? Enjoy being in a collections agency. Smiley Happy

 

An example: When a line is cancelled because the customer stops paying his account and is still in his contract, AT&T charges him the ETF. AT&T cancelled his account, not the customer, and he's still charged the ETF. Totally valid.

 

Point blank is: Line is cancelled during the contract, doesn't matter if you or AT&T does it, you pay the ETF. Period.

 

Enjoy your day.


 

 


I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s positions, strategies or opinions.

adroit4 wrote:

I have a data plan for the captivate, i was referring to the OPs post. I have dodged the data plan before on att for 4 years...i think thats long enough for me to say their {Please keep it courteous}

You have dodged it for 4 years because until september of last year it wasn't required. So don't come here whining if you get the Data Plan added later and in Customer Service they tell you they can't remove it.

 

The only way you can get the Data Plan removed is if your line was grandfathered to avoid the Data Plan requirement, something that you're not because you already changed your old phone to the Captivate you're using. When changing your phone to another model, upgrade or not, the smartphone data exception is removed and can't be added back.

 

 

Also with the contracts, if AT&T (or any wireless carrier) terminates the contract from their end, you do not have to pay the ETF (unless your account was not in a good standing due to non payment) since you are complying according to ETF on the contract. This proves my point further about at&t employees taking vandettas without any knowledge, at&t train them better or hire people who think before they talk...reminds me of the whole verizon 2 cents - 2 dollar fiasco. [Removed per Community Guidelines: - Keep it relevant and appropriate -]

Yes, they can. Again, you're not commiting to the 2 year contract, they have all the right to charge you the ETF. Don't want to pay it? Enjoy being in a collections agency. Smiley Happy

 

An example: When a line is cancelled because the customer stops paying his account and is still in his contract, AT&T charges him the ETF. AT&T cancelled his account, not the customer, and he's still charged the ETF. Totally valid.

 

Point blank is: Line is cancelled during the contract, doesn't matter if you or AT&T does it, you pay the ETF. Period.

 

Enjoy your day.


 

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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adroit4 wrote:

 


Neihn wrote:

 


adroit4 wrote:

don't buy your smartphone from the carrier, get it from a 3rd party so the carrier won't know what phone you have. When you register your phone, DO NOT tell them you have a smartphone.


You do realize you dont have to tell them they will find out themselves the very first time the phone pings the towers and at&t sytems detect its IMEI number.

 


you really think at&t checks the IMEI for over millions of devices and assigns each phone a data plan? Too many "skilled" man hours involved, don't think att would spend all that money. Also I am talking from a personal experience..i had a phone for over 2 years and just used wifi, never got a data plan added on it automatically.

 


to many "skilled" man hours? Would take one of my programmers about a couple of hours to add the flag code to the software, including QA testing, once the flag for required dataplan is set in the account, the billing program wil handle it like all other smartphones and bill the data plan

 

Basicly Check the IMEI number from the phone on the account, if it is one that is assigned to a smartphone, set the billing flag for required data plan.


adroit4 wrote:

 


Neihn wrote:

 


adroit4 wrote:

don't buy your smartphone from the carrier, get it from a 3rd party so the carrier won't know what phone you have. When you register your phone, DO NOT tell them you have a smartphone.


You do realize you dont have to tell them they will find out themselves the very first time the phone pings the towers and at&t sytems detect its IMEI number.

 


you really think at&t checks the IMEI for over millions of devices and assigns each phone a data plan? Too many "skilled" man hours involved, don't think att would spend all that money. Also I am talking from a personal experience..i had a phone for over 2 years and just used wifi, never got a data plan added on it automatically.

 


to many "skilled" man hours? Would take one of my programmers about a couple of hours to add the flag code to the software, including QA testing, once the flag for required dataplan is set in the account, the billing program wil handle it like all other smartphones and bill the data plan

 

Basicly Check the IMEI number from the phone on the account, if it is one that is assigned to a smartphone, set the billing flag for required data plan.

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Aug 1, 2010 4:21:43 AM
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adroit4 wrote:

i understand its checked, but the data plan is not added automatically, it needs an employee to go through the account and force a data account, especially when there is a data block.


tell that to the people that have been getting the text message stating a data plan has been added


adroit4 wrote:

i understand its checked, but the data plan is not added automatically, it needs an employee to go through the account and force a data account, especially when there is a data block.


tell that to the people that have been getting the text message stating a data plan has been added

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Hi Jesse,

 

Please let us know how that problem is going. I'm really angry about the mandatory data plan on smart phones.

I understand that ATT does heavy subsidising on new smart phones, so it makes sense adding a mandatory data plan on them. But I really don't understand why they are forcing it to people who bring their own smart phone.

 

Does this mean I can buy a iphone4 and then the next day switch to a cheap dumb phone, then block my data plan, and sell the iphone to China or somewhere?

 

It's just plain stupid and outrageous that they are trying to milk the customers. I don't need a data plan. I just want to use my phone for voice, and data over wifi only. I'm not going to use data when I'm driving. I wan't to use a smart phone as a PDA. Oh yeah, a rep told me that wifi won't work if block the ATT data network. I laughed at her, and thought the discussion wasn't worth going on. I mean it's really mind blowing.

 

I'm really surprised that there weren't any class action law suit yet. I thought in US, everybody sues for everything. In this case it would be something really worth, and not stupid.

 

-Hoon

 

 

 

Hi Jesse,

 

Please let us know how that problem is going. I'm really angry about the mandatory data plan on smart phones.

I understand that ATT does heavy subsidising on new smart phones, so it makes sense adding a mandatory data plan on them. But I really don't understand why they are forcing it to people who bring their own smart phone.

 

Does this mean I can buy a iphone4 and then the next day switch to a cheap dumb phone, then block my data plan, and sell the iphone to China or somewhere?

 

It's just plain stupid and outrageous that they are trying to milk the customers. I don't need a data plan. I just want to use my phone for voice, and data over wifi only. I'm not going to use data when I'm driving. I wan't to use a smart phone as a PDA. Oh yeah, a rep told me that wifi won't work if block the ATT data network. I laughed at her, and thought the discussion wasn't worth going on. I mean it's really mind blowing.

 

I'm really surprised that there weren't any class action law suit yet. I thought in US, everybody sues for everything. In this case it would be something really worth, and not stupid.

 

-Hoon

 

 

 

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Aug 6, 2011 12:35:22 PM
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Sorry wilcre, but you just totally aggravated me with what you wrote. I'm in customer service. And if I EVER got that attitude with a subscriber, I would be fired.

 

                   " wilcre wrote:

             Unfortunately since day one of the release of all versions of the iPhone that device has always required the data package to be added to any and or all iPhones when in use on the ATTM network.

        Right, all iphones bought from att or apple required a data plan when activated.  That's the agreement when a user gets one.  Someone made that agreement when they bought the iphone I have now.

        But that person broke their agreement and no longer is paying for the data plan.

        That is not my responsibility to pay for that deal gone bad.  I pay for service, and I put my sim card into a phone that I bought on my own.  It is not att's business which brand and model of phone I use if I did not get it from them.  I should not get forced into different terms of service based on the phone.

        I'm not a big fan of analogies because by their very nature there are differences, but anyway:

    

        The gas station can not force you to buy premium gas because you drive a lexus
        An ISP can not require you to buy the highest speed service because you have a fast computer.

          I want the same service any person can get with a cell phone of their own. I do not owe att for my iPhone.

    ATTM has always required a data plan for the iPhone and since not long ago also any other phone that is deemed a smart phone to have the proper data plan no matter where the phone/device has come from, there are no analogies or anything else that can be used, you dont want the data plan dont use the smartphone period. "

 

 

 

How rude!!!!!

Sooooo with that being said, I would like a REAL employee to come on this forum, read my post and asnwer me one question... Because no one seem's to be able to answer this. I want to know what the difference is between "data" and "internet" on the phones? Reason being, they both access the internet, they both can do the same functionality. I pay $10 a month for my internet access on my phone, and now your basically stating that if I go get a iPhone, that I will have to pay more? To me it's just AT&T's way of getting more money from the consumer because they put a fancy name on the word "internet"...

 

So, with putting the fact that smart phones use a "data plan" aside. Explain the difference between the 2 please. We'd like to know!

 

Sorry wilcre, but you just totally aggravated me with what you wrote. I'm in customer service. And if I EVER got that attitude with a subscriber, I would be fired.

 

                   " wilcre wrote:

             Unfortunately since day one of the release of all versions of the iPhone that device has always required the data package to be added to any and or all iPhones when in use on the ATTM network.

        Right, all iphones bought from att or apple required a data plan when activated.  That's the agreement when a user gets one.  Someone made that agreement when they bought the iphone I have now.

        But that person broke their agreement and no longer is paying for the data plan.

        That is not my responsibility to pay for that deal gone bad.  I pay for service, and I put my sim card into a phone that I bought on my own.  It is not att's business which brand and model of phone I use if I did not get it from them.  I should not get forced into different terms of service based on the phone.

        I'm not a big fan of analogies because by their very nature there are differences, but anyway:

    

        The gas station can not force you to buy premium gas because you drive a lexus
        An ISP can not require you to buy the highest speed service because you have a fast computer.

          I want the same service any person can get with a cell phone of their own. I do not owe att for my iPhone.

    ATTM has always required a data plan for the iPhone and since not long ago also any other phone that is deemed a smart phone to have the proper data plan no matter where the phone/device has come from, there are no analogies or anything else that can be used, you dont want the data plan dont use the smartphone period. "

 

 

 

How rude!!!!!

Sooooo with that being said, I would like a REAL employee to come on this forum, read my post and asnwer me one question... Because no one seem's to be able to answer this. I want to know what the difference is between "data" and "internet" on the phones? Reason being, they both access the internet, they both can do the same functionality. I pay $10 a month for my internet access on my phone, and now your basically stating that if I go get a iPhone, that I will have to pay more? To me it's just AT&T's way of getting more money from the consumer because they put a fancy name on the word "internet"...

 

So, with putting the fact that smart phones use a "data plan" aside. Explain the difference between the 2 please. We'd like to know!

 

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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TearsInHvn wrote:

Sorry wilcre, but you just totally aggravated me with what you wrote. I'm in customer service. And if I EVER got that attitude with a subscriber, I would be fired.

 

                   " wilcre wrote:

             Unfortunately since day one of the release of all versions of the iPhone that device has always required the data package to be added to any and or all iPhones when in use on the ATTM network.

        Right, all iphones bought from att or apple required a data plan when activated.  That's the agreement when a user gets one.  Someone made that agreement when they bought the iphone I have now.

        But that person broke their agreement and no longer is paying for the data plan.

        That is not my responsibility to pay for that deal gone bad.  I pay for service, and I put my sim card into a phone that I bought on my own.  It is not att's business which brand and model of phone I use if I did not get it from them.  I should not get forced into different terms of service based on the phone.

        I'm not a big fan of analogies because by their very nature there are differences, but anyway:

    

        The gas station can not force you to buy premium gas because you drive a lexus
        An ISP can not require you to buy the highest speed service because you have a fast computer.

          I want the same service any person can get with a cell phone of their own. I do not owe att for my iPhone.

    ATTM has always required a data plan for the iPhone and since not long ago also any other phone that is deemed a smart phone to have the proper data plan no matter where the phone/device has come from, there are no analogies or anything else that can be used, you dont want the data plan dont use the smartphone period. "

 

 

 

How rude!!!!!

Sooooo with that being said, I would like a REAL employee to come on this forum, read my post and asnwer me one question... Because no one seem's to be able to answer this. I want to know what the difference is between "data" and "internet" on the phones? Reason being, they both access the internet, they both can do the same functionality. I pay $10 a month for my internet access on my phone, and now your basically stating that if I go get a iPhone, that I will have to pay more? To me it's just AT&T's way of getting more money from the consumer because they put a fancy name on the word "internet"...

 

So, with putting the fact that smart phones use a "data plan" aside. Explain the difference between the 2 please. We'd like to know!

 


Point 1 - you will not get a "real" employee from ATT with a official ansers, this is a customer forum only with out official att participation, ther are "REAL" ATT employee's responding here but they have disclaimers that it is not official ATT policy in their signatre block

 

Point 2 - a dumb phone and a smartphone access the internet throught eh same method with different terminology, dumb phones with their limited selection of capabilities are charged less for internet access, smartphone with a more robust access ability are charged more, do a litlte research prior to posting, it makes things a lot easier. You need to understand that the requirement for a iphone to have data is NOT dependant on if you own the device or if it was subsidized, the requirement of a data plan is to fullfill the basic terms of service to allow the iphone to be attached to teh carriers network - nothing more, nothing less, so drop the incorrect assumption that is is a requirement for a subsidized phpne. Doesn;t matter if you own not, it still requires a data plan. Kind of like owning a  car outright or owning the bank for it - you are still required to have insurance on it to be able to drive it.


TearsInHvn wrote:

Sorry wilcre, but you just totally aggravated me with what you wrote. I'm in customer service. And if I EVER got that attitude with a subscriber, I would be fired.

 

                   " wilcre wrote:

             Unfortunately since day one of the release of all versions of the iPhone that device has always required the data package to be added to any and or all iPhones when in use on the ATTM network.

        Right, all iphones bought from att or apple required a data plan when activated.  That's the agreement when a user gets one.  Someone made that agreement when they bought the iphone I have now.

        But that person broke their agreement and no longer is paying for the data plan.

        That is not my responsibility to pay for that deal gone bad.  I pay for service, and I put my sim card into a phone that I bought on my own.  It is not att's business which brand and model of phone I use if I did not get it from them.  I should not get forced into different terms of service based on the phone.

        I'm not a big fan of analogies because by their very nature there are differences, but anyway:

    

        The gas station can not force you to buy premium gas because you drive a lexus
        An ISP can not require you to buy the highest speed service because you have a fast computer.

          I want the same service any person can get with a cell phone of their own. I do not owe att for my iPhone.

    ATTM has always required a data plan for the iPhone and since not long ago also any other phone that is deemed a smart phone to have the proper data plan no matter where the phone/device has come from, there are no analogies or anything else that can be used, you dont want the data plan dont use the smartphone period. "

 

 

 

How rude!!!!!

Sooooo with that being said, I would like a REAL employee to come on this forum, read my post and asnwer me one question... Because no one seem's to be able to answer this. I want to know what the difference is between "data" and "internet" on the phones? Reason being, they both access the internet, they both can do the same functionality. I pay $10 a month for my internet access on my phone, and now your basically stating that if I go get a iPhone, that I will have to pay more? To me it's just AT&T's way of getting more money from the consumer because they put a fancy name on the word "internet"...

 

So, with putting the fact that smart phones use a "data plan" aside. Explain the difference between the 2 please. We'd like to know!

 


Point 1 - you will not get a "real" employee from ATT with a official ansers, this is a customer forum only with out official att participation, ther are "REAL" ATT employee's responding here but they have disclaimers that it is not official ATT policy in their signatre block

 

Point 2 - a dumb phone and a smartphone access the internet throught eh same method with different terminology, dumb phones with their limited selection of capabilities are charged less for internet access, smartphone with a more robust access ability are charged more, do a litlte research prior to posting, it makes things a lot easier. You need to understand that the requirement for a iphone to have data is NOT dependant on if you own the device or if it was subsidized, the requirement of a data plan is to fullfill the basic terms of service to allow the iphone to be attached to teh carriers network - nothing more, nothing less, so drop the incorrect assumption that is is a requirement for a subsidized phpne. Doesn;t matter if you own not, it still requires a data plan. Kind of like owning a  car outright or owning the bank for it - you are still required to have insurance on it to be able to drive it.

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Aug 7, 2011 11:42:49 PM
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Edited by pamelaz on Aug 8, 2011 at 6:49:30 AM

I think some of the posters here have been well trained to miss the point (especially the AT&T employees).

 

Repetitious recitals of what the TOS states is not helpful. The stated requirement that

    "... a data plan is required to use this phone..."

can be understood by anyone who takes the time to read it.

 

The question is-- why is that a requirement when it is NOT TRUE. If you can get a smartphone, pop in your SIM, operate the phone as you desire and most importantly, not use DATA, why are you forced to pay for a data plan? Why are the monopolies allowed to perpetrate this scam is the question?

 

If the phone you desire absolutely required a data connection to operate, then you do the obvious and pay for a data plan. If the phone did not require a data plan but you wanted it anyway, then you pay for a data plan.

 

If the phone does not require a data plan to operate and you do not want a data plan, then you should not be forced into a data plan. To be forced into a data plan because the providers simply say it is required is an obvious SCAM. Is there an additional cost to them if I use a smartphone? Is their network over worked or taxed in some way?  If yes, then it would be fair to pay extra.

 

Is the cost of my cell usage dependent on the phone I use or is it dependent on how I use my phone? It appears that the providers have found a way to tack on senseless charges to the customer and have gotten away with it. So far. 

 

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. 

 

One other point... The original OP's (Jesse) analogies were fantastic -- being forced into HD television service simply because you bought an HD TV.  By extension of this analogy, you either listened to a transistor radio or bought an HD TV and paid exorbitant service fees simply because the cable company had no competetion and could get away with it. Would that be right? Or how about you either buy a Lexus and be forced to pay through the nose for elevated premium gas -- or ride a bicycle. Nobody recognized the relevance of these analogies.

 

Thanks

I think some of the posters here have been well trained to miss the point (especially the AT&T employees).

 

Repetitious recitals of what the TOS states is not helpful. The stated requirement that

    "... a data plan is required to use this phone..."

can be understood by anyone who takes the time to read it.

 

The question is-- why is that a requirement when it is NOT TRUE. If you can get a smartphone, pop in your SIM, operate the phone as you desire and most importantly, not use DATA, why are you forced to pay for a data plan? Why are the monopolies allowed to perpetrate this scam is the question?

 

If the phone you desire absolutely required a data connection to operate, then you do the obvious and pay for a data plan. If the phone did not require a data plan but you wanted it anyway, then you pay for a data plan.

 

If the phone does not require a data plan to operate and you do not want a data plan, then you should not be forced into a data plan. To be forced into a data plan because the providers simply say it is required is an obvious SCAM. Is there an additional cost to them if I use a smartphone? Is their network over worked or taxed in some way?  If yes, then it would be fair to pay extra.

 

Is the cost of my cell usage dependent on the phone I use or is it dependent on how I use my phone? It appears that the providers have found a way to tack on senseless charges to the customer and have gotten away with it. So far. 

 

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. 

 

One other point... The original OP's (Jesse) analogies were fantastic -- being forced into HD television service simply because you bought an HD TV.  By extension of this analogy, you either listened to a transistor radio or bought an HD TV and paid exorbitant service fees simply because the cable company had no competetion and could get away with it. Would that be right? Or how about you either buy a Lexus and be forced to pay through the nose for elevated premium gas -- or ride a bicycle. Nobody recognized the relevance of these analogies.

 

Thanks

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Edited by pamelaz on Aug 8, 2011 at 6:50:46 AM

antiscam wrote:

I think some of the posters here have been well trained to miss the point (especially the AT&T employees).

 

Repetitious recitals of what the TOS states is not helpful. The stated requirement that

    "... a data plan is required to use this phone..."

can be understood by anyone who takes the time to read it.

 

The question is-- why is that a requirement when it is NOT TRUE. If you can get a smartphone, pop in your SIM, operate the phone as you desire and most importantly, not use DATA, why are you forced to pay for a data plan? Why are the monopolies allowed to perpetrate this scam is the question?

 

If the phone you desire absolutely required a data connection to operate, then you do the obvious and pay for a data plan. If the phone did not require a data plan but you wanted it anyway, then you pay for a data plan.

 

If the phone does not require a data plan to operate and you do not want a data plan, then you should not be forced into a data plan. To be forced into a data plan because the providers simply say it is required is an obvious SCAM. Is there an additional cost to them if I use a smartphone? Is their network over worked or taxed in some way?  If yes, then it would be fair to pay extra.

 

Is the cost of my cell usage dependent on the phone I use or is it dependent on how I use my phone? It appears that the providers have found a way to tack on senseless charges to the customer and have gotten away with it. So far. 

 

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. 

 

One other point... The original OP's (Jesse) analogies were fantastic -- being forced into HD television service simply because you bought an HD TV.  By extension of this analogy, you either listened to a transistor radio or bought an HD TV and paid exorbitant service fees simply because the cable company had no competetion and could get away with it. Would that be right? Or how about you either buy a Lexus and be forced to pay through the nose for elevated premium gas -- or ride a bicycle. Nobody recognized the relevance of these analogies.

 

Thanks


the thing you are missing - their network, their rules. Period, same with a car, you purchase one, pay cash for it or finance it insurance is required for you to legally take it off the lot, and license it.

 

There is no tier 1 to 3 carrier that will allow you to install a smartphone on their network without the required data plan. Don't single out any carrier they all do it, don;t care for the requirement then don;t get a smartphone, [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

This has to be the most amusing portion of your statement

 

"Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. "

 

Since it is a LEGALLY binding agreement it is quite central to the discussion, if you don;t take the time to read it, then what ever happens is no ones fault but your own. It is your "opinion" that it is wrong, it is what is in place at this time at ALL the top tier carriers

 

 


antiscam wrote:

I think some of the posters here have been well trained to miss the point (especially the AT&T employees).

 

Repetitious recitals of what the TOS states is not helpful. The stated requirement that

    "... a data plan is required to use this phone..."

can be understood by anyone who takes the time to read it.

 

The question is-- why is that a requirement when it is NOT TRUE. If you can get a smartphone, pop in your SIM, operate the phone as you desire and most importantly, not use DATA, why are you forced to pay for a data plan? Why are the monopolies allowed to perpetrate this scam is the question?

 

If the phone you desire absolutely required a data connection to operate, then you do the obvious and pay for a data plan. If the phone did not require a data plan but you wanted it anyway, then you pay for a data plan.

 

If the phone does not require a data plan to operate and you do not want a data plan, then you should not be forced into a data plan. To be forced into a data plan because the providers simply say it is required is an obvious SCAM. Is there an additional cost to them if I use a smartphone? Is their network over worked or taxed in some way?  If yes, then it would be fair to pay extra.

 

Is the cost of my cell usage dependent on the phone I use or is it dependent on how I use my phone? It appears that the providers have found a way to tack on senseless charges to the customer and have gotten away with it. So far. 

 

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. 

 

One other point... The original OP's (Jesse) analogies were fantastic -- being forced into HD television service simply because you bought an HD TV.  By extension of this analogy, you either listened to a transistor radio or bought an HD TV and paid exorbitant service fees simply because the cable company had no competetion and could get away with it. Would that be right? Or how about you either buy a Lexus and be forced to pay through the nose for elevated premium gas -- or ride a bicycle. Nobody recognized the relevance of these analogies.

 

Thanks


the thing you are missing - their network, their rules. Period, same with a car, you purchase one, pay cash for it or finance it insurance is required for you to legally take it off the lot, and license it.

 

There is no tier 1 to 3 carrier that will allow you to install a smartphone on their network without the required data plan. Don't single out any carrier they all do it, don;t care for the requirement then don;t get a smartphone, [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

This has to be the most amusing portion of your statement

 

"Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. "

 

Since it is a LEGALLY binding agreement it is quite central to the discussion, if you don;t take the time to read it, then what ever happens is no ones fault but your own. It is your "opinion" that it is wrong, it is what is in place at this time at ALL the top tier carriers

 

 

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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wingrider01 wrote:

antiscam wrote:

I think some of the posters here have been well trained to miss the point (especially the AT&T employees).

 

Repetitious recitals of what the TOS states is not helpful. The stated requirement that

    "... a data plan is required to use this phone..."

can be understood by anyone who takes the time to read it.

 

The question is-- why is that a requirement when it is NOT TRUE. If you can get a smartphone, pop in your SIM, operate the phone as you desire and most importantly, not use DATA, why are you forced to pay for a data plan? Why are the monopolies allowed to perpetrate this scam is the question?

 

If the phone you desire absolutely required a data connection to operate, then you do the obvious and pay for a data plan. If the phone did not require a data plan but you wanted it anyway, then you pay for a data plan.

 

If the phone does not require a data plan to operate and you do not want a data plan, then you should not be forced into a data plan. To be forced into a data plan because the providers simply say it is required is an obvious SCAM. Is there an additional cost to them if I use a smartphone? Is their network over worked or taxed in some way?  If yes, then it would be fair to pay extra.

 

Is the cost of my cell usage dependent on the phone I use or is it dependent on how I use my phone? It appears that the providers have found a way to tack on senseless charges to the customer and have gotten away with it. So far. 

 

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. 

 

One other point... The original OP's (Jesse) analogies were fantastic -- being forced into HD television service simply because you bought an HD TV.  By extension of this analogy, you either listened to a transistor radio or bought an HD TV and paid exorbitant service fees simply because the cable company had no competetion and could get away with it. Would that be right? Or how about you either buy a Lexus and be forced to pay through the nose for elevated premium gas -- or ride a bicycle. Nobody recognized the relevance of these analogies.

 

Thanks


the thing you are missing - their network, their rules. Period, same with a car, you purchase one, pay cash for it or finance it insurance is required for you to legally take it off the lot, and license it.

 

There is no tier 1 to 3 carrier that will allow you to install a smartphone on their network without the required data plan. Don't single out any carrier they all do it, don;t care for the requirement then don;t get a smartphone, [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

This has to be the most amusing portion of your statement

 

"Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. "

 

Since it is a LEGALLY binding agreement it is quite central to the discussion, if you don;t take the time to read it, then what ever happens is no ones fault but your own. It is your "opinion" that it is wrong, it is what is in place at this time at ALL the top tier carriers

 

 


I haven't singled out any providers, have I? I haven't changed providers since the 90's. Through various mergers, aquisitions, name changing etc, I've been with ATT for that long and that's why I'm writing here. Don't be insulted. PERIOD.

 

There you go again -- that misuse of the word "requirement" that results in a SCAM.

 

You haven't addressed any issue that I brought up. PERIOD. Thank you for trying though Wing.

 

 


wingrider01 wrote:

antiscam wrote:

I think some of the posters here have been well trained to miss the point (especially the AT&T employees).

 

Repetitious recitals of what the TOS states is not helpful. The stated requirement that

    "... a data plan is required to use this phone..."

can be understood by anyone who takes the time to read it.

 

The question is-- why is that a requirement when it is NOT TRUE. If you can get a smartphone, pop in your SIM, operate the phone as you desire and most importantly, not use DATA, why are you forced to pay for a data plan? Why are the monopolies allowed to perpetrate this scam is the question?

 

If the phone you desire absolutely required a data connection to operate, then you do the obvious and pay for a data plan. If the phone did not require a data plan but you wanted it anyway, then you pay for a data plan.

 

If the phone does not require a data plan to operate and you do not want a data plan, then you should not be forced into a data plan. To be forced into a data plan because the providers simply say it is required is an obvious SCAM. Is there an additional cost to them if I use a smartphone? Is their network over worked or taxed in some way?  If yes, then it would be fair to pay extra.

 

Is the cost of my cell usage dependent on the phone I use or is it dependent on how I use my phone? It appears that the providers have found a way to tack on senseless charges to the customer and have gotten away with it. So far. 

 

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. 

 

One other point... The original OP's (Jesse) analogies were fantastic -- being forced into HD television service simply because you bought an HD TV.  By extension of this analogy, you either listened to a transistor radio or bought an HD TV and paid exorbitant service fees simply because the cable company had no competetion and could get away with it. Would that be right? Or how about you either buy a Lexus and be forced to pay through the nose for elevated premium gas -- or ride a bicycle. Nobody recognized the relevance of these analogies.

 

Thanks


the thing you are missing - their network, their rules. Period, same with a car, you purchase one, pay cash for it or finance it insurance is required for you to legally take it off the lot, and license it.

 

There is no tier 1 to 3 carrier that will allow you to install a smartphone on their network without the required data plan. Don't single out any carrier they all do it, don;t care for the requirement then don;t get a smartphone, [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

This has to be the most amusing portion of your statement

 

"Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. "

 

Since it is a LEGALLY binding agreement it is quite central to the discussion, if you don;t take the time to read it, then what ever happens is no ones fault but your own. It is your "opinion" that it is wrong, it is what is in place at this time at ALL the top tier carriers

 

 


I haven't singled out any providers, have I? I haven't changed providers since the 90's. Through various mergers, aquisitions, name changing etc, I've been with ATT for that long and that's why I'm writing here. Don't be insulted. PERIOD.

 

There you go again -- that misuse of the word "requirement" that results in a SCAM.

 

You haven't addressed any issue that I brought up. PERIOD. Thank you for trying though Wing.

 

 

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Edited by smuggymba on Aug 8, 2011 at 8:34:08 AM

I'm using a Samsung Solstice phone and my brother gave me a iPhone from Australia and I used it for some time and got the dreaded data plan message.

 

Why am I being charged for a phone that was purchased in Australia? Do the "force the data plan" terms and conditions apply to phones bought from another country?

I'm using a Samsung Solstice phone and my brother gave me a iPhone from Australia and I used it for some time and got the dreaded data plan message.

 

Why am I being charged for a phone that was purchased in Australia? Do the "force the data plan" terms and conditions apply to phones bought from another country?

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Yes, they apply to all smartphones.
Yes, they apply to all smartphones.

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antiscam wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

antiscam wrote:

I think some of the posters here have been well trained to miss the point (especially the AT&T employees).

 

Repetitious recitals of what the TOS states is not helpful. The stated requirement that

    "... a data plan is required to use this phone..."

can be understood by anyone who takes the time to read it.

 

The question is-- why is that a requirement when it is NOT TRUE. If you can get a smartphone, pop in your SIM, operate the phone as you desire and most importantly, not use DATA, why are you forced to pay for a data plan? Why are the monopolies allowed to perpetrate this scam is the question?

 

If the phone you desire absolutely required a data connection to operate, then you do the obvious and pay for a data plan. If the phone did not require a data plan but you wanted it anyway, then you pay for a data plan.

 

If the phone does not require a data plan to operate and you do not want a data plan, then you should not be forced into a data plan. To be forced into a data plan because the providers simply say it is required is an obvious SCAM. Is there an additional cost to them if I use a smartphone? Is their network over worked or taxed in some way?  If yes, then it would be fair to pay extra.

 

Is the cost of my cell usage dependent on the phone I use or is it dependent on how I use my phone? It appears that the providers have found a way to tack on senseless charges to the customer and have gotten away with it. So far. 

 

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. 

 

One other point... The original OP's (Jesse) analogies were fantastic -- being forced into HD television service simply because you bought an HD TV.  By extension of this analogy, you either listened to a transistor radio or bought an HD TV and paid exorbitant service fees simply because the cable company had no competetion and could get away with it. Would that be right? Or how about you either buy a Lexus and be forced to pay through the nose for elevated premium gas -- or ride a bicycle. Nobody recognized the relevance of these analogies.

 

Thanks


the thing you are missing - their network, their rules. Period, same with a car, you purchase one, pay cash for it or finance it insurance is required for you to legally take it off the lot, and license it.

 

There is no tier 1 to 3 carrier that will allow you to install a smartphone on their network without the required data plan. Don't single out any carrier they all do it, don;t care for the requirement then don;t get a smartphone, [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

This has to be the most amusing portion of your statement

 

"Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. "

 

Since it is a LEGALLY binding agreement it is quite central to the discussion, if you don;t take the time to read it, then what ever happens is no ones fault but your own. It is your "opinion" that it is wrong, it is what is in place at this time at ALL the top tier carriers

 

 


I haven't singled out any providers, have I? I haven't changed providers since the 90's. Through various mergers, aquisitions, name changing etc, I've been with ATT for that long and that's why I'm writing here. Don't be insulted. PERIOD.

 

There you go again -- that misuse of the word "requirement" that results in a SCAM.

 

You haven't addressed any issue that I brought up. PERIOD. Thank you for trying though Wing.

 

 



guess we have different diffenitions and applications of the word "scam" what you are complainging about does not fit the websters english dictionary's definition. Last time I looked being honest is not a insult, if is basicly your fault for any unexpected results if you do not take the time to review the legal terms of service.

 

If you want to match times with ATT, can do that with you although I suspect I have abouty 10-15 years on you, back to the early 80's before the court ordered break up, if you add POTS services into the mix, it will take it back to the 50's


antiscam wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

antiscam wrote:

I think some of the posters here have been well trained to miss the point (especially the AT&T employees).

 

Repetitious recitals of what the TOS states is not helpful. The stated requirement that

    "... a data plan is required to use this phone..."

can be understood by anyone who takes the time to read it.

 

The question is-- why is that a requirement when it is NOT TRUE. If you can get a smartphone, pop in your SIM, operate the phone as you desire and most importantly, not use DATA, why are you forced to pay for a data plan? Why are the monopolies allowed to perpetrate this scam is the question?

 

If the phone you desire absolutely required a data connection to operate, then you do the obvious and pay for a data plan. If the phone did not require a data plan but you wanted it anyway, then you pay for a data plan.

 

If the phone does not require a data plan to operate and you do not want a data plan, then you should not be forced into a data plan. To be forced into a data plan because the providers simply say it is required is an obvious SCAM. Is there an additional cost to them if I use a smartphone? Is their network over worked or taxed in some way?  If yes, then it would be fair to pay extra.

 

Is the cost of my cell usage dependent on the phone I use or is it dependent on how I use my phone? It appears that the providers have found a way to tack on senseless charges to the customer and have gotten away with it. So far. 

 

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. 

 

One other point... The original OP's (Jesse) analogies were fantastic -- being forced into HD television service simply because you bought an HD TV.  By extension of this analogy, you either listened to a transistor radio or bought an HD TV and paid exorbitant service fees simply because the cable company had no competetion and could get away with it. Would that be right? Or how about you either buy a Lexus and be forced to pay through the nose for elevated premium gas -- or ride a bicycle. Nobody recognized the relevance of these analogies.

 

Thanks


the thing you are missing - their network, their rules. Period, same with a car, you purchase one, pay cash for it or finance it insurance is required for you to legally take it off the lot, and license it.

 

There is no tier 1 to 3 carrier that will allow you to install a smartphone on their network without the required data plan. Don't single out any carrier they all do it, don;t care for the requirement then don;t get a smartphone, [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

This has to be the most amusing portion of your statement

 

"Please don't waste time responding about what the microscopic fine print in the TOS says, because it is downright wrong and not germane to the discussion. "

 

Since it is a LEGALLY binding agreement it is quite central to the discussion, if you don;t take the time to read it, then what ever happens is no ones fault but your own. It is your "opinion" that it is wrong, it is what is in place at this time at ALL the top tier carriers

 

 


I haven't singled out any providers, have I? I haven't changed providers since the 90's. Through various mergers, aquisitions, name changing etc, I've been with ATT for that long and that's why I'm writing here. Don't be insulted. PERIOD.

 

There you go again -- that misuse of the word "requirement" that results in a SCAM.

 

You haven't addressed any issue that I brought up. PERIOD. Thank you for trying though Wing.

 

 



guess we have different diffenitions and applications of the word "scam" what you are complainging about does not fit the websters english dictionary's definition. Last time I looked being honest is not a insult, if is basicly your fault for any unexpected results if you do not take the time to review the legal terms of service.

 

If you want to match times with ATT, can do that with you although I suspect I have abouty 10-15 years on you, back to the early 80's before the court ordered break up, if you add POTS services into the mix, it will take it back to the 50's

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Edited by smuggymba on Aug 8, 2011 at 10:52:07 AM

If ATT is quick and smart to add the data plan if someone uses an unlocked iPhone..they should be equally quick to remove it back when one changes back to a Non-Smart Phone.

 

Or is this mentioned in the T&C's that the data plan will be added but won't be taken back.

 

 I'm cancelling my U-Verse connection today and would have done the same with wireless but for the high termination fees. 

If ATT is quick and smart to add the data plan if someone uses an unlocked iPhone..they should be equally quick to remove it back when one changes back to a Non-Smart Phone.

 

Or is this mentioned in the T&C's that the data plan will be added but won't be taken back.

 

 I'm cancelling my U-Verse connection today and would have done the same with wireless but for the high termination fees. 

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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wingrider01 wrote:

guess we have different diffenitions and applications of the word "scam" what you are complainging about does not fit the websters english dictionary's definition. Last time I looked being honest is not a insult, if is basicly your fault for any unexpected results if you do not take the time to review the legal terms of service.

 

If you want to match times with ATT, can do that with you although I suspect I have abouty 10-15 years on you, back to the early 80's before the court ordered break up, if you add POTS services into the mix, it will take it back to the 50's


Mirriam Webster Online Dictionary -- SCAM: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation       Fraudulent: SYN - dishonest, false

 

Providers stating that a data plan is required is not true. It is False. By stating these falsehoods, it is a deceptive act to obtain more money from customers when it is not necessary. We can operate the phones without a data plan. The key issue here is the definition of "required". A data plan is not required. It may be desired or useful, but it is not required to operate the phone.

 

Why some have difficulty understanding that many customers do not want to spend additional money for a service that is not desired and most importantly is not required is beyond me. No one shold be defending that practice.

 

Thanks


wingrider01 wrote:

guess we have different diffenitions and applications of the word "scam" what you are complainging about does not fit the websters english dictionary's definition. Last time I looked being honest is not a insult, if is basicly your fault for any unexpected results if you do not take the time to review the legal terms of service.

 

If you want to match times with ATT, can do that with you although I suspect I have abouty 10-15 years on you, back to the early 80's before the court ordered break up, if you add POTS services into the mix, it will take it back to the 50's


Mirriam Webster Online Dictionary -- SCAM: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation       Fraudulent: SYN - dishonest, false

 

Providers stating that a data plan is required is not true. It is False. By stating these falsehoods, it is a deceptive act to obtain more money from customers when it is not necessary. We can operate the phones without a data plan. The key issue here is the definition of "required". A data plan is not required. It may be desired or useful, but it is not required to operate the phone.

 

Why some have difficulty understanding that many customers do not want to spend additional money for a service that is not desired and most importantly is not required is beyond me. No one shold be defending that practice.

 

Thanks

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Edited by wingrider01 on Aug 8, 2011 at 3:24:34 PM

antiscam wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

guess we have different diffenitions and applications of the word "scam" what you are complainging about does not fit the websters english dictionary's definition. Last time I looked being honest is not a insult, if is basicly your fault for any unexpected results if you do not take the time to review the legal terms of service.

 

If you want to match times with ATT, can do that with you although I suspect I have abouty 10-15 years on you, back to the early 80's before the court ordered break up, if you add POTS services into the mix, it will take it back to the 50's


Mirriam Webster Online Dictionary -- SCAM: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation       Fraudulent: SYN - dishonest, false

 

Providers stating that a data plan is required is not true. It is False. By stating these falsehoods, it is a deceptive act to obtain more money from customers when it is not necessary. We can operate the phones without a data plan. The key issue here is the definition of "required". A data plan is not required. It may be desired or useful, but it is not required to operate the phone.

 

Why some have difficulty understanding that many customers do not want to spend additional money for a service that is not desired and most importantly is not required is beyond me. No one shold be defending that practice.

 

Thanks


outside of an opinion - how is the requirement of a data plan fit that definition? If you believe it does, then anything that has a additional fee requirement is a "scam" in your eyes. A data plan is required by their terms of service, this does not make it a scam in the eyes of anyone but those with that opinion. It violates no tenants of the contractual law

 

If you don;t want to spend the money then switch to a device that does not have that requirement, simple as that. I am not "defedning the practice" becasue there is nothiung to defend, it is part of a legally binding contract, just like the requirement by the states to carry auto insurance to drive - or do you believe that is a "scam" also?


antiscam wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

guess we have different diffenitions and applications of the word "scam" what you are complainging about does not fit the websters english dictionary's definition. Last time I looked being honest is not a insult, if is basicly your fault for any unexpected results if you do not take the time to review the legal terms of service.

 

If you want to match times with ATT, can do that with you although I suspect I have abouty 10-15 years on you, back to the early 80's before the court ordered break up, if you add POTS services into the mix, it will take it back to the 50's


Mirriam Webster Online Dictionary -- SCAM: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation       Fraudulent: SYN - dishonest, false

 

Providers stating that a data plan is required is not true. It is False. By stating these falsehoods, it is a deceptive act to obtain more money from customers when it is not necessary. We can operate the phones without a data plan. The key issue here is the definition of "required". A data plan is not required. It may be desired or useful, but it is not required to operate the phone.

 

Why some have difficulty understanding that many customers do not want to spend additional money for a service that is not desired and most importantly is not required is beyond me. No one shold be defending that practice.

 

Thanks


outside of an opinion - how is the requirement of a data plan fit that definition? If you believe it does, then anything that has a additional fee requirement is a "scam" in your eyes. A data plan is required by their terms of service, this does not make it a scam in the eyes of anyone but those with that opinion. It violates no tenants of the contractual law

 

If you don;t want to spend the money then switch to a device that does not have that requirement, simple as that. I am not "defedning the practice" becasue there is nothiung to defend, it is part of a legally binding contract, just like the requirement by the states to carry auto insurance to drive - or do you believe that is a "scam" also?

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Edited by pamelaz on Aug 8, 2011 at 4:25:15 PM

wingrider01 wrote:

antiscam wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

guess we have different diffenitions and applications of the word "scam" what you are complainging about does not fit the websters english dictionary's definition. Last time I looked being honest is not a insult, if is basicly your fault for any unexpected results if you do not take the time to review the legal terms of service.

 

If you want to match times with ATT, can do that with you although I suspect I have abouty 10-15 years on you, back to the early 80's before the court ordered break up, if you add POTS services into the mix, it will take it back to the 50's


Mirriam Webster Online Dictionary -- SCAM: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation       Fraudulent: SYN - dishonest, false

 

Providers stating that a data plan is required is not true. It is False. By stating these falsehoods, it is a deceptive act to obtain more money from customers when it is not necessary. We can operate the phones without a data plan. The key issue here is the definition of "required". A data plan is not required. It may be desired or useful, but it is not required to operate the phone.

 

Why some have difficulty understanding that many customers do not want to spend additional money for a service that is not desired and most importantly is not required is beyond me. No one shold be defending that practice.

 

Thanks


outside of an opinion - how is the requirement of a data plan fit that definition? If you believe it does, then anything that has a additional fee requirement is a "scam" in your eyes. A data plan is required by their terms of service, this does not make it a scam in the eyes of anyone but those with that opinion. It violates no tenants of the contractual law

 

If you don;t want to spend the money then switch to a device that does not have that requirement, simple as that. I am not "defedning the practice" becasue there is nothiung to defend, it is part of a legally binding contract, just like the requirement by the states to carry auto insurance to drive - or do you believe that is a "scam" also?


There is no opinion here. There is the simple fact that the operation of these phones do not require a data plan. The providers are making it a requirement, thus a SCAM. If there is no basis in fact for an additional cost but merely a loophole to extract more money from the customer, then yes, it is a scam.

 

Do you honestly think I am the only one with this stance on this issue? There are 12 pages dedicated to this issue on this thread alone!

 

What in the world does auto insurance have to do with data plans?

 

Also, your attempt to tell me what phone to use is offensive {Please keep it courteous}. When the choices narrow down to a good smart phone or a morse code machine, what choice will people make?


wingrider01 wrote:

antiscam wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

guess we have different diffenitions and applications of the word "scam" what you are complainging about does not fit the websters english dictionary's definition. Last time I looked being honest is not a insult, if is basicly your fault for any unexpected results if you do not take the time to review the legal terms of service.

 

If you want to match times with ATT, can do that with you although I suspect I have abouty 10-15 years on you, back to the early 80's before the court ordered break up, if you add POTS services into the mix, it will take it back to the 50's


Mirriam Webster Online Dictionary -- SCAM: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation       Fraudulent: SYN - dishonest, false

 

Providers stating that a data plan is required is not true. It is False. By stating these falsehoods, it is a deceptive act to obtain more money from customers when it is not necessary. We can operate the phones without a data plan. The key issue here is the definition of "required". A data plan is not required. It may be desired or useful, but it is not required to operate the phone.

 

Why some have difficulty understanding that many customers do not want to spend additional money for a service that is not desired and most importantly is not required is beyond me. No one shold be defending that practice.

 

Thanks


outside of an opinion - how is the requirement of a data plan fit that definition? If you believe it does, then anything that has a additional fee requirement is a "scam" in your eyes. A data plan is required by their terms of service, this does not make it a scam in the eyes of anyone but those with that opinion. It violates no tenants of the contractual law

 

If you don;t want to spend the money then switch to a device that does not have that requirement, simple as that. I am not "defedning the practice" becasue there is nothiung to defend, it is part of a legally binding contract, just like the requirement by the states to carry auto insurance to drive - or do you believe that is a "scam" also?


There is no opinion here. There is the simple fact that the operation of these phones do not require a data plan. The providers are making it a requirement, thus a SCAM. If there is no basis in fact for an additional cost but merely a loophole to extract more money from the customer, then yes, it is a scam.

 

Do you honestly think I am the only one with this stance on this issue? There are 12 pages dedicated to this issue on this thread alone!

 

What in the world does auto insurance have to do with data plans?

 

Also, your attempt to tell me what phone to use is offensive {Please keep it courteous}. When the choices narrow down to a good smart phone or a morse code machine, what choice will people make?

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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Hello everyone, let's remember to stay on topic and keep it nice. Thank you.

Remember to always mark items that you find useful as "Accepted Solutions”, you can even mark multiple
posts
in a single thread.  This will help other users find this information too!!

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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antiscam wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

antiscam wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

guess we have different diffenitions and applications of the word "scam" what you are complainging about does not fit the websters english dictionary's definition. Last time I looked being honest is not a insult, if is basicly your fault for any unexpected results if you do not take the time to review the legal terms of service.

 

If you want to match times with ATT, can do that with you although I suspect I have abouty 10-15 years on you, back to the early 80's before the court ordered break up, if you add POTS services into the mix, it will take it back to the 50's


Mirriam Webster Online Dictionary -- SCAM: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation       Fraudulent: SYN - dishonest, false

 

Providers stating that a data plan is required is not true. It is False. By stating these falsehoods, it is a deceptive act to obtain more money from customers when it is not necessary. We can operate the phones without a data plan. The key issue here is the definition of "required". A data plan is not required. It may be desired or useful, but it is not required to operate the phone.

 

Why some have difficulty understanding that many customers do not want to spend additional money for a service that is not desired and most importantly is not required is beyond me. No one shold be defending that practice.

 

Thanks


outside of an opinion - how is the requirement of a data plan fit that definition? If you believe it does, then anything that has a additional fee requirement is a "scam" in your eyes. A data plan is required by their terms of service, this does not make it a scam in the eyes of anyone but those with that opinion. It violates no tenants of the contractual law

 

If you don;t want to spend the money then switch to a device that does not have that requirement, simple as that. I am not "defedning the practice" becasue there is nothiung to defend, it is part of a legally binding contract, just like the requirement by the states to carry auto insurance to drive - or do you believe that is a "scam" also?


There is no opinion here. There is the simple fact that the operation of these phones do not require a data plan. The providers are making it a requirement, thus a SCAM. If there is no basis in fact for an additional cost but merely a loophole to extract more money from the customer, then yes, it is a scam.

 

Do you honestly think I am the only one with this stance on this issue? There are 12 pages dedicated to this issue on this thread alone!

 

What in the world does auto insurance have to do with data plans?

 

Also, your attempt to tell me what phone to use is offensive {Please keep it courteous}. When the choices narrow down to a good smart phone or a morse code machine, what choice will people make?



bottom line - make any choice you want, but the carrier ultimately determines what features are required for a subsidized phone or a out right purchased phone to be allowed to connect to the infrastructure that they designed, built and maintained, this is business 101, not a scam at all, it violates absolutley no law that is currently on the books in any of the 50 states of the US, for it to be "scam" that is of the deciding issues.

 

As far as auto insurance comparision - it is the perfect analog - to be able to drive / license a car, financed, leased, outright purchase you are required to have insurance on it. To be able to utilzie a smartphone on the carriers networks you are required to have a data plan, does not matter if thephone is subsidized or owned outright.

 

The network infrastructure belongs to the carriers, they set the rules that are within the limitations set forth by the regulations, there is no scam outside of a opinion, unles you can cite precedent to prove it wrong.

 

Good luck, done with this.


antiscam wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

antiscam wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

guess we have different diffenitions and applications of the word "scam" what you are complainging about does not fit the websters english dictionary's definition. Last time I looked being honest is not a insult, if is basicly your fault for any unexpected results if you do not take the time to review the legal terms of service.

 

If you want to match times with ATT, can do that with you although I suspect I have abouty 10-15 years on you, back to the early 80's before the court ordered break up, if you add POTS services into the mix, it will take it back to the 50's


Mirriam Webster Online Dictionary -- SCAM: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation       Fraudulent: SYN - dishonest, false

 

Providers stating that a data plan is required is not true. It is False. By stating these falsehoods, it is a deceptive act to obtain more money from customers when it is not necessary. We can operate the phones without a data plan. The key issue here is the definition of "required". A data plan is not required. It may be desired or useful, but it is not required to operate the phone.

 

Why some have difficulty understanding that many customers do not want to spend additional money for a service that is not desired and most importantly is not required is beyond me. No one shold be defending that practice.

 

Thanks


outside of an opinion - how is the requirement of a data plan fit that definition? If you believe it does, then anything that has a additional fee requirement is a "scam" in your eyes. A data plan is required by their terms of service, this does not make it a scam in the eyes of anyone but those with that opinion. It violates no tenants of the contractual law

 

If you don;t want to spend the money then switch to a device that does not have that requirement, simple as that. I am not "defedning the practice" becasue there is nothiung to defend, it is part of a legally binding contract, just like the requirement by the states to carry auto insurance to drive - or do you believe that is a "scam" also?


There is no opinion here. There is the simple fact that the operation of these phones do not require a data plan. The providers are making it a requirement, thus a SCAM. If there is no basis in fact for an additional cost but merely a loophole to extract more money from the customer, then yes, it is a scam.

 

Do you honestly think I am the only one with this stance on this issue? There are 12 pages dedicated to this issue on this thread alone!

 

What in the world does auto insurance have to do with data plans?

 

Also, your attempt to tell me what phone to use is offensive {Please keep it courteous}. When the choices narrow down to a good smart phone or a morse code machine, what choice will people make?



bottom line - make any choice you want, but the carrier ultimately determines what features are required for a subsidized phone or a out right purchased phone to be allowed to connect to the infrastructure that they designed, built and maintained, this is business 101, not a scam at all, it violates absolutley no law that is currently on the books in any of the 50 states of the US, for it to be "scam" that is of the deciding issues.

 

As far as auto insurance comparision - it is the perfect analog - to be able to drive / license a car, financed, leased, outright purchase you are required to have insurance on it. To be able to utilzie a smartphone on the carriers networks you are required to have a data plan, does not matter if thephone is subsidized or owned outright.

 

The network infrastructure belongs to the carriers, they set the rules that are within the limitations set forth by the regulations, there is no scam outside of a opinion, unles you can cite precedent to prove it wrong.

 

Good luck, done with this.

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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A more accurate auto analogy would be the following.

 

Let's say you previously owned a 20 year old car that was acceptable but no marvel of technology. With that car you were allowed to drive on any road, no problem.

 

Now you bought a nice Mercedes. This Mercedes is perfectly capable of driving on any road, but suddenly you received a ticket and were told that it was now REQUIRED for you to use toll roads only. Now you pay much more than you did before.

 

But wait... you don't want to pay for toll roads all the time! This car works fine on any road.

 

Sorry!! Hey, you don't own the roads, you didn't design or build them. Too bad. You either pay for toll roads ( because they make the rules however they want) or drive the bomb. Better yet... you could always ride a bicycyle. That's what you deserve anyway if you don't wan't to pay extra! Another option for you is go and drive on another agencies roads that don't charge. Good luck finding an alternate routes.

 

Now is that the right way to operate? Is that acceptable for everyone?

 

Thanks

A more accurate auto analogy would be the following.

 

Let's say you previously owned a 20 year old car that was acceptable but no marvel of technology. With that car you were allowed to drive on any road, no problem.

 

Now you bought a nice Mercedes. This Mercedes is perfectly capable of driving on any road, but suddenly you received a ticket and were told that it was now REQUIRED for you to use toll roads only. Now you pay much more than you did before.

 

But wait... you don't want to pay for toll roads all the time! This car works fine on any road.

 

Sorry!! Hey, you don't own the roads, you didn't design or build them. Too bad. You either pay for toll roads ( because they make the rules however they want) or drive the bomb. Better yet... you could always ride a bicycyle. That's what you deserve anyway if you don't wan't to pay extra! Another option for you is go and drive on another agencies roads that don't charge. Good luck finding an alternate routes.

 

Now is that the right way to operate? Is that acceptable for everyone?

 

Thanks

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to post your comments and opinions related to this topic. This topic has been thoroughly discussed and will now be closed.

Remember to always mark items that you find useful as "Accepted Solutions”, you can even mark multipleposts in a single thread.  This will help other users find this information too!!

I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to post your comments and opinions related to this topic. This topic has been thoroughly discussed and will now be closed.

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

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