Data plan with unlocked phone

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

Some more annotation for the uclalawreview article

 

link: http://uclalawreview.org/pdf/57-3-1.pdf

 

idea:  att pushing its contracts toward illegal

 

other companies and ideas are talked about, att starts at PAGE 50

 

a relevant quote form the article , p.52 (656):

 

"

For instance, in two cases decided in 2008, AT&T had modified its
contracts so frequently that its own attorneys accidentally perjured themselves
by swearing under oath that obsolete procedural terms governed the plaintiffs’
claims.326

 

For instance, in two cases decided in 2008, AT&T had modified itscontracts so frequently that its own attorneys accidentally perjured themselvesby swearing under oath that obsolete procedural terms governed the plaintiffs’claims.326"

 

..so hopefully more people can look at that and understand / find out more.

 

-jaf

Message 46 of 114 (8,063 Views)
Master

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

Whatever, dude.  These systems have been automated so that less human intervention is required, and therefore fewer human errors occur.  By continuing to use AT&T's service, you agree to play by their rules.  One of their rules states that smartphones require a data plan (and don't get me started on "designated" versus "undesignated" smartphones).  Your IMEI broadcasts the type of phone you're using.  When AT&T detects that you have a smartphone on your account, they automatically add the appropriate plan.  There's nothing underhanded or dirty or sleazy or any of the other attributes you attribute to AT&T about it.  It's simply a company doing business.

 

 


jesseallenfish wrote:

All I did was plug my sim in and the iphone worked. I didn't activate it.

 

I dont get it - I've paid every bill for 5+ years.  I plug my sim into a different phone.  My usage stays the same - same call volume, same txt volume, still no data usage (remember I had a data block on my account).

 

I'm not really interested in arguing legal.  It seems pretty 'common sense/doing whats right' that if I'm using the same service my plan and bill should stay the same.

 

I wouldn't care about the legal, except thats how att tries to justify changing my plan.

 

I'll point out again that if they really want/ need to 

-1 know what model phone your sim is plugged into at all times

-2 knowing that that model is smart capable

-3 soemhow force you to have a data plan for such phones

 

...that they could go about it in a more civil and upstanding way.

 

Sticking my sim into an iphone then waking up in the morning to find a txt & email at 4am that I now have a data plan that nearly doubles my bill and which i must have - thats just dirty

 

Why no call, email, txt before changing my plan?  Why not let me know first?  

 

..Not that I would be any happier in the long run,  I'm just trying to emphasize that discussion I am trying to have is not just about legal details.

 

It is about a company acting in greed and doing it in a subversive way.

 

I just want the same service I always had, and that service does not involve which phone I use.

 

And I suspect that I'm speaking for a whole class of people.  I'm not one lone crazy person - the net is full of others with no law degree, but just a sense of right and wrong


 

Message 47 of 114 (7,996 Views)

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

Yeah I know the systems are automated.  Still there was a real person that decided to program the systems to act as they do.  So someone decided that if the system detects an iphone then that user gets a data plan.

 

Thats ok for 90+% of users who got a subsidized iphone, new plan, etc, who owe apple/att.

 

But there are some like me who have been paying for voice service only for years, got their own iphone, and just want to keep using the same plan they always have.

 

Whoever set up the automated system made the decision to treat users like me like the users who got a subsidized iphone, so yeah its automated but there are real people who decide how that system runs.

 

I am not trying to get anything for free.  I just want the same service I always had.  I do not want to add to the data network traffic - data congestion is a problem and I don't want to contribute.

 

I could see if I tried to unlocked, jailbreak, tether, etc, but I just kept my plan, plugged in my sim and it works. 

 

I don't use or want anything extra so why should I be forced to pay more?

 

My motivation is just to do whats right - thats business.

 

Yes IK att is just doing business too, but they are doing me bogus.

 

brianfromNO - I'm being totally sincere here - may I ask how your perspective is influenced?  What is your motivation?

 

(some possibilities I can understand)

1-  You work for att and it is your job to informally deal w/ people in these forums

2-  You work for att or have stock and so you are vested in the company doing well financially

3-  You yourself have been stuck with a data plan and you want to see others get the same

 

I mean I appreciate you taking the time to post feedback and it does help me and others work through and understand the issue.

 

I still do think that its at least a little funny (in a bad way) that if att policy is legally enforcable to stick me with a plan+fee that they would not have to do it automatically in the middle of the night and then let me know after the fact.  It would have been more civil/business ethical if they would contact users first.  But doing it how they do they can expect most users, right or wrong, to not notice the change of service, or just lie down and accept it.

 

I just dont think its right.

 

Message 48 of 114 (7,913 Views)

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

new developments - 

 

1) no resolution yet so i called and upon reviewing my case notes i found that during one of my calls a rep was authorized to offer me $60/mo for 12 months for data service 'plus a $100 kicker' - whatever that is.  That offer was only good for the duration of the call.

 

Actually, I must not have been talking how they wanted at the time b/c they never actually offered me that deal during the conversation it was good for (so it should also be noted that I am very uncertain of the exact terms / language of that offer).  Only after I called back later did I find that someone was ready to make a deal.  I guess because I keep repeating that I do not want data that they didnt offer.  Nice to know att is considering my situation though

 

2) Yet another escalation - talked to the specialist yesterday.  She also could/would not give me no-data, but sent me along the chain.  Up to 72 hrs to hear back.

 

 

att help me help you (by not congesting the data network =)  )

 

~chale~

Message 49 of 114 (7,742 Views)
Contributor

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

Don't you think AT&T should at least give a notice (call or email) to customers without adding $30 per month to their bill? Is this asking too much?

Message 50 of 114 (7,688 Views)
Contributor

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

jesseallenfish, I totally agree with you. I'm an AT&T customer and I have an iphone with data plan. I have a family plan with my wife who has a regular samsung phone with no data plan. Her sister has an unlocked iphone and is on tmobile. From time to time, my wife switches phone with her sister and plug her sim card to her sister's iphone. About 2 weeks ago, AT&T added a data plan to her line without any prior notice. If we were contacted, we would have had an opportunity to explain the situation and perhaps stop switching phones.

I haven't called at&t yet, but I will soon and I'll ask them to remove the plan or terminate the contract without any termination fee. I can also consider keeping the data plan for my wife if they agree to upgrade her line to a new iphone at the regular price. And if they don't want and there is any possibility to collectively sue them, i gladly will be in.

Let me know your thoughts.

Message 51 of 114 (9,948 Views)
Contributor

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

I hope this isn't a dumb question.

 

I just got the "Did you know a data plan is required for your iPhone? For whatever reason, our records indicate your iPhone did not have the correct data plan. We have added the appropriate data plan." text from AT&T and I have the following questions --

 

1) I read somewhere that AT&T automatically adds the $30 data plan. What exactly is on this data plan?

 

2) In addition to charging me the $30 for the data plan every month, will there be an additional charge for adding the data plan during the cell phone billing cycle? (Our cell phone bill renews the 9th of every month; it is the 10th)

 

Message 52 of 114 (9,937 Views)

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

[ Edited ]

 


yessitslucy wrote:

I hope this isn't a dumb question.

 

I just got the "Did you know a data plan is required for your iPhone? For whatever reason, our records indicate your iPhone did not have the correct data plan. We have added the appropriate data plan." text from AT&T and I have the following questions --

 

1) I read somewhere that AT&T automatically adds the $30 data plan. What exactly is on this data plan?

 

2) In addition to charging me the $30 for the data plan every month, will there be an additional charge for adding the data plan during the cell phone billing cycle? (Our cell phone bill renews the 9th of every month; it is the 10th)

 


$30 data plan is 'unlimited' data plan, which I believe means you never pay more than 30, but I think there is some sort of limit as to how much traffic you can make.

 

 

AFAIK you can no longer get the 30 unlimited data plan (effective about june 9)- now its 15 or 25 and each has a limit as to how much you can download.  If you go over you pay extra, just like minutes.

 

So im not sure if ppl who get automatic data plans will still get the 30 unlimited.

 

The data plan allows you to use internet over the cellular network.  One way to think about it is that you can use your phone like a modem to access interent.

 

Another way to think about it is that - you know how you can do all that cool stuff with iphone when you are on a wifi network?  Well when you have data plan you can do all that stuff where ever you get a cell signal, when you cant get on wifi (but to be sure wifi is usually a little faster and less dropped connection than data network.)

 

data plan is NOT calls, minutes

data plan is NOT txt

 

..on iphone it IS safari, weather, itunes store, and an yof the many apps that go online.

 

CHARGES

 

I believe you will pay 30 per monthly bill (or whatever the price of the plan you get - if you get one of the new 15 or 25 plans).  if you got the plan part way into your monthly billing cycle then I thin k you only pay for the days you had the data plan.  Since its 30 a month and 30 days a month, that means about $1/day for that first fraction of monthly billing cycle.  

 

Since you renew on the 9th and your data plan started the 10th it will still be $29 or $30 for this next bill.

 

Finally, AFAIK there is no additional one time fee just for adding the plan.

 

If you can afford it and want it- why not, it will help att and the data network grow.  hope that helps

Message 53 of 114 (9,888 Views)

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

[ Edited ]

 


LeGourou wrote:

jesseallenfish, I totally agree with you. I'm an AT&T customer and I have an iphone with data plan. I have a family plan with my wife who has a regular samsung phone with no data plan. Her sister has an unlocked iphone and is on tmobile. From time to time, my wife switches phone with her sister and plug her sim card to her sister's iphone. About 2 weeks ago, AT&T added a data plan to her line without any prior notice. If we were contacted, we would have had an opportunity to explain the situation and perhaps stop switching phones.

I haven't called at&t yet, but I will soon and I'll ask them to remove the plan or terminate the contract without any termination fee. I can also consider keeping the data plan for my wife if they agree to upgrade her line to a new iphone at the regular price. And if they don't want and there is any possibility to collectively sue them, i gladly will be in.

Let me know your thoughts.


 

 

 

I've heard that if you call and explain things, and your wife puts her sim back in her samsung that they will take the data plan away.

 

The att network identifies a device by the IMEI number of the phone (just a number unique to a device, basically hardwired into the phone)

 

Then they (or computer system, netowrk, etc) looks up that IMEI number in some database and that database usually says what make/model device it is (it must have that IMEI+device model information entered ionto the db in the first place, not sure how that data is obtained or verified).  So when your wife plugs in her samsung they can verify and they will probably say, 'ok, no iphone, no data plan'  

 

But also if she plugs her sim into sis's iphone again they can see that too and its a matter of time before they slap the data plan back on.

 

I think you should be ok - in my case I bought an iphone on my own and I was using it as a voice only cell with wifi for a month or 2 and they hit me with the data plan.  I will keep using my iphone but I do not want to use att's data network.

 

If you buy an iphone from att or apple you enter into an agreement to use the data plan - which is how most people do it.

Message 54 of 114 (9,883 Views)
Master

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

Part of the IMEI is the Type Allocation Code, which identifies the make and model of the phone.

 

Regardless of where the phone comes from, iPhones and smartphones have to have a data plan.  Period.  End of story.  It doesn't matter if it's unlocked and/or unbranded.  If AT&T finds you and adds the data plan, there's nothing you can do.  If you do the old SIM swap trick, call and have the data plan removed, it will be re-added when you put the SIM back into your smartphone.

Message 55 of 114 (9,785 Views)
Contributor

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

Thanks for your response. Keep us posted on how it goes for you.

best!

Message 56 of 114 (9,769 Views)

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

Was supposed to hear back from specialist supervisor within 72 hours of noon wednesday.  That time passed so I called.  I talked to a specialist supervisor for a while.  She read me the service agreement (current, ie newset agreement that people get, ie with the 'iphone=required data plan' part)  I said yeah I know that's in there now, but that appeared after I entered into an agreement.

 

She said, well, the part about 'att can make any changes it wants whenever it wants'

 

I said, what if they said 'all sony ericsson users mmust pay an aditional $50/mo fo rusing that phone'?

 or

'all users must pay an additonal $50/mo under any circumstance'

...can att do that?

 

She said that the language in the service agreement states so.

 

Finally, she said, look, I can take away the dat aplan but the network will see you have an iphone and you will be given a data plan again in the next sweep.

 

I asked how I might challange the legality of that 'do whatever we like' clause and she gave me instructions for arbitration.

 

She was pleasant and helpful.  Pretty much another cust serv rep who said they couldn't do anyhting for me b/c the computer does things automatically.

 

So now I must decide if I want to pursue arbitration or initiate a class action suit...

 

The rep did think I had a good argument.

 

Has anyone ever heard how arbitration goes?  I mean, has anyone got anywhere from it?

 

IK the service agreement says I MUST persue resolution via arbitration adn I waive my right to sue, but that part of att service agreement has already been overturned in CA court, so I do have the option.  Problem is I dont know anyone, and there proably aren't many in my situation:

 

   -service before sept 2009 (before iphone = auto data plan)

   -bought an att branded, already activated iphone

   -had no data plan (or a data block like I had)

   -put sim into iphone and no activation, etc was required, it worked as a phone only, data blocked

   -then att stuck you (me) with a data plan

   -asked to remove data plan but was denied

 

Anyone out there?>

Message 57 of 114 (9,675 Views)
Expert

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

     Unfortunately since day one of the release of all versions of the iPhone that device has always required the data package to be added to any and or all iPhones when in use on the ATTM network.

Message 58 of 114 (9,671 Views)

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone

 


wilcre wrote:

     Unfortunately since day one of the release of all versions of the iPhone that device has always required the data package to be added to any and or all iPhones when in use on the ATTM network.


 

Right, all iphones bought from att or apple required a data plan when activated.  That's the agreement when a user gets one.  Someone made that agreement when they bought the iphone I have now.  

 

But that person broke their agreement and no longer is paying for the data plan.

 

That is not my responsibility to pay for that deal gone bad.  I pay for service, and I put my sim card into a phone that I bought on my own.  It is not att's business which brand and model of phone I use if I did not get it from them.  I should not get forced into different terms of service based on the phone.

 

I'm not a big fan of analogies because by their very nature there are differences, but anyway:

 

-The gas station can not force you to buy premium gas because you drive a lexus

 

-An ISP can not require you to buy the highest speed service because you have a fast computer.

 

I want the same service any person can get with a cell phone of their own.  

I do not owe att for my iphone.

 

Message 59 of 114 (9,635 Views)
Expert

Re: Data plan with unlocked phone


jesseallenfish wrote:

 


wilcre wrote:

     Unfortunately since day one of the release of all versions of the iPhone that device has always required the data package to be added to any and or all iPhones when in use on the ATTM network.


    Right, all iphones bought from att or apple required a data plan when activated.  That's the agreement when a user gets one.  Someone made that agreement when they bought the iphone I have now.

    But that person broke their agreement and no longer is paying for the data plan.

    That is not my responsibility to pay for that deal gone bad.  I pay for service, and I put my sim card into a phone that I bought on my own.  It is not att's business which brand and model of phone I use if I did not get it from them.  I should not get forced into different terms of service based on the phone.

    I'm not a big fan of analogies because by their very nature there are differences, but anyway:

 

  • The gas station can not force you to buy premium gas because you drive a lexus
  • An ISP can not require you to buy the highest speed service because you have a fast computer.

      I want the same service any person can get with a cell phone of their own. I do not owe att for my iPhone.


    ATTM has always required a data plan for the iPhone and since not long ago also any other phone that is deemed a smart phone to have the proper data plan no matter where the phone/device has come from, there are no analogies or anything else that can be used, you dont want the data plan dont use the smartphone period.

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