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Posted May 19, 2011
11:30:31 AM
AT&T and Over Charging for Data
Edited by DimentoGraven on May 19, 2011 at 11:33:33 AM

MSNBC Report

 

Look, while I agree that maybe the class action law suit they refer to may not have merit, or that maybe there's just the typical misunderstanding of what goes on, I do want to point out that better, more clear, reporting in the bill MAY have helped avoid a LOT of confusion that has caused this to come about.

 

AT&T really needs to work out a method of making data billing come out like the voice billing, where data sessions are timed stamped, and there's not of that 'bovine extretion' billing in a lump in the middle of the night going on.

 

Plus, AT&T really needs to put some pressure on Apple to provide an app that will accurately measure what apps are using data, and how much.

 

With that type of information superfluous law suits like this one could be avoided.

 

NOTE:  This is the one post where I will give AT&T the benefit of the doubt.  Last time I post from that perspective.

MSNBC Report

 

Look, while I agree that maybe the class action law suit they refer to may not have merit, or that maybe there's just the typical misunderstanding of what goes on, I do want to point out that better, more clear, reporting in the bill MAY have helped avoid a LOT of confusion that has caused this to come about.

 

AT&T really needs to work out a method of making data billing come out like the voice billing, where data sessions are timed stamped, and there's not of that 'bovine extretion' billing in a lump in the middle of the night going on.

 

Plus, AT&T really needs to put some pressure on Apple to provide an app that will accurately measure what apps are using data, and how much.

 

With that type of information superfluous law suits like this one could be avoided.

 

NOTE:  This is the one post where I will give AT&T the benefit of the doubt.  Last time I post from that perspective.

AT&T and Over Charging for Data

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May 19, 2011 12:34:06 PM
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Glad to hear about the lawsuit. While its for iPhone users, I have an Android and ATT is claiming I'm downloading on average 15megs a day. That makes me reach the 200meg limit in a little over 13 days. This is with barely no web browsing, using google maps maybe 3x a week, and getting on average 10 emails a day that have a data limit set to 2k each(!), and are text only(!!). Hope they expand the lawsuit to Android users cause somethings up. There's no way that some background data can account for this.

Glad to hear about the lawsuit. While its for iPhone users, I have an Android and ATT is claiming I'm downloading on average 15megs a day. That makes me reach the 200meg limit in a little over 13 days. This is with barely no web browsing, using google maps maybe 3x a week, and getting on average 10 emails a day that have a data limit set to 2k each(!), and are text only(!!). Hope they expand the lawsuit to Android users cause somethings up. There's no way that some background data can account for this.

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May 20, 2011 7:53:45 AM
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krehbein wrote:

Glad to hear about the lawsuit. While its for iPhone users, I have an Android and ATT is claiming I'm downloading on average 15megs a day. That makes me reach the 200meg limit in a little over 13 days. This is with barely no web browsing, using google maps maybe 3x a week, and getting on average 10 emails a day that have a data limit set to 2k each(!), and are text only(!!). Hope they expand the lawsuit to Android users cause somethings up. There's no way that some background data can account for this.


An easy way for AT&T to get out from under this scam is to only account for one's data usage that data actually initiated by the user.Visual voicemail and other normal funcions of the phone should not be charged to the client. A easier way is to go back to unlimited.

 

Of course, this will always be problematical for people who don't understand background processing. The real problem with all of this is the complexity of the technology and the lack of technical knowledge of 90% of the population.

 

To expect the average person to understand all this gibberish is just that  gibberish.

 

AT&T and others are making big mistakes with this tiered pricing nonsense.

 

 

 


krehbein wrote:

Glad to hear about the lawsuit. While its for iPhone users, I have an Android and ATT is claiming I'm downloading on average 15megs a day. That makes me reach the 200meg limit in a little over 13 days. This is with barely no web browsing, using google maps maybe 3x a week, and getting on average 10 emails a day that have a data limit set to 2k each(!), and are text only(!!). Hope they expand the lawsuit to Android users cause somethings up. There's no way that some background data can account for this.


An easy way for AT&T to get out from under this scam is to only account for one's data usage that data actually initiated by the user.Visual voicemail and other normal funcions of the phone should not be charged to the client. A easier way is to go back to unlimited.

 

Of course, this will always be problematical for people who don't understand background processing. The real problem with all of this is the complexity of the technology and the lack of technical knowledge of 90% of the population.

 

To expect the average person to understand all this gibberish is just that  gibberish.

 

AT&T and others are making big mistakes with this tiered pricing nonsense.

 

 

 

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May 20, 2011 9:30:04 AM
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Edited by drumn_bass on May 20, 2011 at 9:31:54 AM

DimentoGraven wrote:

 

AT&T really needs to work out a method of making data billing come out like the voice billing, where data sessions are timed stamped, and there's not of that 'bovine extretion' billing in a lump in the middle of the night going on.

 


It used to be like that, back when the original iPhone just came out, and here is what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8r4Gtc6aCM

or:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdULhkh6yeA&feature=related

It's not a joke, people were recieving boxes of paper, ditailed data bills.


DimentoGraven wrote:

 

AT&T really needs to work out a method of making data billing come out like the voice billing, where data sessions are timed stamped, and there's not of that 'bovine extretion' billing in a lump in the middle of the night going on.

 


It used to be like that, back when the original iPhone just came out, and here is what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8r4Gtc6aCM

or:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdULhkh6yeA&feature=related

It's not a joke, people were recieving boxes of paper, ditailed data bills.

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Just got the iphone 4.  Four days into my billing cycle I checked my data usage, only to find that almost half of my data has been used when I was at home on wifi.  When the iphone goes to sleep 3g kicks in, no longer on wifi.  So of course when your sleeping at night so isnt your phone, guess when all of my data usage kicked in !   What a scam!!!!   I've been an AT&T customer for years, you are ripping people off, time for a change. 

Just got the iphone 4.  Four days into my billing cycle I checked my data usage, only to find that almost half of my data has been used when I was at home on wifi.  When the iphone goes to sleep 3g kicks in, no longer on wifi.  So of course when your sleeping at night so isnt your phone, guess when all of my data usage kicked in !   What a scam!!!!   I've been an AT&T customer for years, you are ripping people off, time for a change. 

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May 20, 2011 10:17:24 AM
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gosoxgo wrote:

Just got the iphone 4.  Four days into my billing cycle I checked my data usage, only to find that almost half of my data has been used when I was at home on wifi.  When the iphone goes to sleep 3g kicks in, no longer on wifi.  So of course when your sleeping at night so isnt your phone, guess when all of my data usage kicked in !   What a scam!!!!   I've been an AT&T customer for years, you are ripping people off, time for a change. 


I guess we have to go through this every time...

 

Plug in the phone into AC, and it won't drop wifi. *APPLE* designed iOS to drop wifi after ~ 15 minutes on battery, so people would not complain about a phone that only lasted 10 hours or less total on batter.

 

So, its harmless (actually better) to recharge every night, and as a benefit your wifi will remain connected.

 

While I have your ear, I really suggest you inves the extra $10 for a couple months when you first get an iPhone4, and run it on the 2GB plan. Once you are SURE your usage is never over 200mb month after month, should you drop it down. Because if you're like most people, you'll use a lot more data than you think.

 

Or, get used to going into Settings->General->Network and turning off Cellular Data... and only turn it ON when you need it. That will also keep you from using data when you don't expect it.

 

 

 


gosoxgo wrote:

Just got the iphone 4.  Four days into my billing cycle I checked my data usage, only to find that almost half of my data has been used when I was at home on wifi.  When the iphone goes to sleep 3g kicks in, no longer on wifi.  So of course when your sleeping at night so isnt your phone, guess when all of my data usage kicked in !   What a scam!!!!   I've been an AT&T customer for years, you are ripping people off, time for a change. 


I guess we have to go through this every time...

 

Plug in the phone into AC, and it won't drop wifi. *APPLE* designed iOS to drop wifi after ~ 15 minutes on battery, so people would not complain about a phone that only lasted 10 hours or less total on batter.

 

So, its harmless (actually better) to recharge every night, and as a benefit your wifi will remain connected.

 

While I have your ear, I really suggest you inves the extra $10 for a couple months when you first get an iPhone4, and run it on the 2GB plan. Once you are SURE your usage is never over 200mb month after month, should you drop it down. Because if you're like most people, you'll use a lot more data than you think.

 

Or, get used to going into Settings->General->Network and turning off Cellular Data... and only turn it ON when you need it. That will also keep you from using data when you don't expect it.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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May 20, 2011 10:27:31 AM
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Edited by DimentoGraven on May 20, 2011 at 10:28:56 AM

The things in this article that I enjoyed the most, where the independant tester, took a brand new phone, disabled all possible push and location services settings so, that while the phone was probably NOT set to use Wifi nor in airplane mode (again, I'm going benefit of the doubt to AT&T on this as the article did not mention these steps were taken) the phone STILL registered 15 different data events (if I remember correctly).  Also how the measured data transmission/reception was ALWAYS billed as MORE than what actually occurred.  So if you used 15k, AT&T would come back and say 20k was used.  Obviously a big problem.

 

AT&T and handset providers have an issue that they need to address.  The billing process IS NOT transparent, period.  We consumers have now had two hundred of years of, "When you turn it off, it's OFF, it's not doing anything and therefore you're not going to be charged for it not doing anything."

 

Regardless of the reality of the new technology, the typical consumer has not a clue about background taks, how Wifi sessiosn are maintained, or if/when an application may or may not be utilizing data.  Now you arrogant elitist AT&T fanboys can whine and moan about how these people shouldn't purchase a smart phone if they're not going to understand this, but we're in the 21st century people, this billing bovine excrement does NOT have to be 'black boxed' like it is.

 

By providing the end user with detailed information of how/when/what is data this problem will absolutely resolve itself so that it doesn't have to be picked up by greedy bastage laywers who will just end up messing everything up anyway.

The things in this article that I enjoyed the most, where the independant tester, took a brand new phone, disabled all possible push and location services settings so, that while the phone was probably NOT set to use Wifi nor in airplane mode (again, I'm going benefit of the doubt to AT&T on this as the article did not mention these steps were taken) the phone STILL registered 15 different data events (if I remember correctly).  Also how the measured data transmission/reception was ALWAYS billed as MORE than what actually occurred.  So if you used 15k, AT&T would come back and say 20k was used.  Obviously a big problem.

 

AT&T and handset providers have an issue that they need to address.  The billing process IS NOT transparent, period.  We consumers have now had two hundred of years of, "When you turn it off, it's OFF, it's not doing anything and therefore you're not going to be charged for it not doing anything."

 

Regardless of the reality of the new technology, the typical consumer has not a clue about background taks, how Wifi sessiosn are maintained, or if/when an application may or may not be utilizing data.  Now you arrogant elitist AT&T fanboys can whine and moan about how these people shouldn't purchase a smart phone if they're not going to understand this, but we're in the 21st century people, this billing bovine excrement does NOT have to be 'black boxed' like it is.

 

By providing the end user with detailed information of how/when/what is data this problem will absolutely resolve itself so that it doesn't have to be picked up by greedy bastage laywers who will just end up messing everything up anyway.

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And I will not pay an extra $10 a month because thats exactly what AT&T wants.  Perhaps AT&T should inform their customers at the time of purchase..........

And I will not pay an extra $10 a month because thats exactly what AT&T wants.  Perhaps AT&T should inform their customers at the time of purchase..........

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this is 2011 Companies do not baby their cst!! thats why they offer self service options to look at all your phones usage. and withthe data issue look at anyother wireless provider they calculate data the same way. If people have Iphones (which we all know are not cheap) why be cheap with a data plan and just pay the 10 extra dollars for almost 10 times as much data?

this is 2011 Companies do not baby their cst!! thats why they offer self service options to look at all your phones usage. and withthe data issue look at anyother wireless provider they calculate data the same way. If people have Iphones (which we all know are not cheap) why be cheap with a data plan and just pay the 10 extra dollars for almost 10 times as much data?

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May 20, 2011 11:02:17 AM
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DimentoGraven wrote:

AT&T and handset providers have an issue that they need to address.  The billing process IS NOT transparent, period.  We consumers have now had two hundred of years of, "When you turn it off, it's OFF, it's not doing anything and therefore you're not going to be charged for it not doing anything."

 

Regardless of the reality of the new technology, the typical consumer has not a clue about background taks, how Wifi sessiosn are maintained, or if/when an application may or may not be utilizing data.  Now you arrogant elitist AT&T fanboys can whine and moan about how these people shouldn't purchase a smart phone if they're not going to understand this, but we're in the 21st century people, this billing bovine excrement does NOT have to be 'black boxed' like it is.


Okay, but no one ever turns their iPhone off and leaves it off.  Yes, broad generalization there, but users must learn that simply turning the screen off does NOT mean the device is off.  If they cannot grasp that simple concept, how will they ever grasp how to utilize the device???

 

I agree with most of your points and believe that AT&T and smart phone OS developers could make it easier/clearer to understand how data is being used.  However, the USER must accept some responsibility.

 

What I mostly see when people complain about data overage is the IMMEDIATE accusation that they are being screwed over somehow.  Once others chime in and explain all the features that require data and how WiFi turns off ofter 15 minutes, then the OP gets all defensive and starts really railing against AT&T and Apple instead of "oh, so here's how I can modify my behaviour and ways I use my device to limit my data usage".  Yes, Generalizing again.

 

Mostly it's just a bunch of spoiled brats that are unhappy they cannot get there way...

 

Until someone can provide detailed data usage, like the original iPhone bills and smack these brats upside the head with one of those 400 page monsters, they simply will not accept responsibility for their usage.

Of course, without those monster bills, it is also, almost impossible to say that AT&T is definitely over chargeing some users.

 


DimentoGraven wrote:

AT&T and handset providers have an issue that they need to address.  The billing process IS NOT transparent, period.  We consumers have now had two hundred of years of, "When you turn it off, it's OFF, it's not doing anything and therefore you're not going to be charged for it not doing anything."

 

Regardless of the reality of the new technology, the typical consumer has not a clue about background taks, how Wifi sessiosn are maintained, or if/when an application may or may not be utilizing data.  Now you arrogant elitist AT&T fanboys can whine and moan about how these people shouldn't purchase a smart phone if they're not going to understand this, but we're in the 21st century people, this billing bovine excrement does NOT have to be 'black boxed' like it is.


Okay, but no one ever turns their iPhone off and leaves it off.  Yes, broad generalization there, but users must learn that simply turning the screen off does NOT mean the device is off.  If they cannot grasp that simple concept, how will they ever grasp how to utilize the device???

 

I agree with most of your points and believe that AT&T and smart phone OS developers could make it easier/clearer to understand how data is being used.  However, the USER must accept some responsibility.

 

What I mostly see when people complain about data overage is the IMMEDIATE accusation that they are being screwed over somehow.  Once others chime in and explain all the features that require data and how WiFi turns off ofter 15 minutes, then the OP gets all defensive and starts really railing against AT&T and Apple instead of "oh, so here's how I can modify my behaviour and ways I use my device to limit my data usage".  Yes, Generalizing again.

 

Mostly it's just a bunch of spoiled brats that are unhappy they cannot get there way...

 

Until someone can provide detailed data usage, like the original iPhone bills and smack these brats upside the head with one of those 400 page monsters, they simply will not accept responsibility for their usage.

Of course, without those monster bills, it is also, almost impossible to say that AT&T is definitely over chargeing some users.

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May 20, 2011 11:19:26 AM
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I can understand that those multi-page phone bills would be aggravating to receive if you are paying one set price for data, no matter how much you use.  However, for those on tiered data plans that can be charged for overages, the detailed billing should be mandatory.  I think that it should be the same as for text messages and voice minutes.

 

I also agree with everyone who says that the user should/must/will accept responsibility for tracking his/her usage.  However, AT&T can give people better tools to do that with.

I can understand that those multi-page phone bills would be aggravating to receive if you are paying one set price for data, no matter how much you use.  However, for those on tiered data plans that can be charged for overages, the detailed billing should be mandatory.  I think that it should be the same as for text messages and voice minutes.

 

I also agree with everyone who says that the user should/must/will accept responsibility for tracking his/her usage.  However, AT&T can give people better tools to do that with.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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May 20, 2011 2:23:53 PM
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android users, 3G watchdog. get the app, apply widget to homescreen, done.
but seriously *data# works. your online account works. just like how you check your minutes hounded to check your data
android users, 3G watchdog. get the app, apply widget to homescreen, done.
but seriously *data# works. your online account works. just like how you check your minutes hounded to check your data
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

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May 20, 2011 5:23:05 PM
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Edited by scoobydoo on May 20, 2011 at 6:05:53 PM

nas103 wrote:

this is 2011 Companies do not baby their cst!! thats why they offer self service options to look at all your phones usage. and withthe data issue look at anyother wireless provider they calculate data the same way. If people have Iphones (which we all know are not cheap) why be cheap with a data plan and just pay the 10 extra dollars for almost 10 times as much data?


I simply can't get my head around this line of thinking.

 

The problem isn't people being cheap...

 

The problem is AT&T and Apple don't tell customers what's happening in the background..

 

BAU processes are eating the user's data plan and the user hasn't got a clue.

 

For all you AT&T [please be courteous],  the first rule of charging a customer for a usage metric is the user has control over the metric.

 

In this case the user isn't in total control of their metric usage, and AT&T is taking advantage of this.

 

I'm happy there is a [Keep it Relevant and Appropriate] and I'll be even happier when AT&T and Apple have to eat their words (again).

 

It's not an antenna design issues,   no,the phone isn't collecting you location data.   Ummmmmmmm...

 

Don't try to pin this one the user,  it's squarely on the shoulders of AT&T's network and Apple's architecture.

 

 

 

 


nas103 wrote:

this is 2011 Companies do not baby their cst!! thats why they offer self service options to look at all your phones usage. and withthe data issue look at anyother wireless provider they calculate data the same way. If people have Iphones (which we all know are not cheap) why be cheap with a data plan and just pay the 10 extra dollars for almost 10 times as much data?


I simply can't get my head around this line of thinking.

 

The problem isn't people being cheap...

 

The problem is AT&T and Apple don't tell customers what's happening in the background..

 

BAU processes are eating the user's data plan and the user hasn't got a clue.

 

For all you AT&T [please be courteous],  the first rule of charging a customer for a usage metric is the user has control over the metric.

 

In this case the user isn't in total control of their metric usage, and AT&T is taking advantage of this.

 

I'm happy there is a [Keep it Relevant and Appropriate] and I'll be even happier when AT&T and Apple have to eat their words (again).

 

It's not an antenna design issues,   no,the phone isn't collecting you location data.   Ummmmmmmm...

 

Don't try to pin this one the user,  it's squarely on the shoulders of AT&T's network and Apple's architecture.

 

 

 

 

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thats why you need to be an AWARE CONSUMER and do your research before you buy products!! all the information is out there on every product if you are unaware of what you are buying how is that the companies fault?  people today just are to lazy to READ and just need the latest trend rather then researching what they are buying.

thats why you need to be an AWARE CONSUMER and do your research before you buy products!! all the information is out there on every product if you are unaware of what you are buying how is that the companies fault?  people today just are to lazy to READ and just need the latest trend rather then researching what they are buying.

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oh, yes, believe at&t over independent testing.  yeah, right.........

oh, yes, believe at&t over independent testing.  yeah, right.........

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May 21, 2011 10:50:56 AM
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pete los angeles wrote:

oh, yes, believe at&t over independent testing.  yeah, right.........


This is the second time ATT has accused of potential data overcharges. Maybe ATT should perform its own independent testing to prove the report incorrect. Any chances that might happen?


pete los angeles wrote:

oh, yes, believe at&t over independent testing.  yeah, right.........


This is the second time ATT has accused of potential data overcharges. Maybe ATT should perform its own independent testing to prove the report incorrect. Any chances that might happen?

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May 22, 2011 5:05:34 PM
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makes me so glad i kept my unlimited plan. though about saving that extra 10 bucks..

i'll stay with what i have.

makes me so glad i kept my unlimited plan. though about saving that extra 10 bucks..

i'll stay with what i have.

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