AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


purplecow827 wrote:

archermoo wrote:

Throttling is a way of keeping the data usage of those of us on unlimited plans under control.  They don't need to do that with the tiered users, since they are paying for the extra data that they use.

 

You do realize that increasing their capacity costs AT&T money, right?



Yes.  And AT&T is alway adding new customers on a daily basis hence increasing revenue.

 

It is not in AT&T's interest to invest too much into their 3G network when LTE promises cable modem speeds is around the corner.  I wouldn't if I were a mobile service provider.  This is the reason why their network is so slow.

 

If AT&T were to throttle, they should also throttle the tiered users as well to keep things fair.  If the tiered customers can not use as much data due to the throttling, they would not have to spend as much either.  AT&T wouldn't make as much money but the network won't be as conjested either.

 


New customers increase revenue, but they also increase the need for infrastructure.

 

If tiered customers use a large amount of data, they pay for the extra data, supporting AT&T's ability to increase infrastructure to deal with it.  So AT&T doesn't have a business need to throttle them.  They are paying for what they are using.

 

Those of us on unlimited plans are a different story.  When we use large amounts of data, we don't pay anything extra for it.  Which doesn't support AT&T's ability to pay for increased infrastructure.  Which is why they have a business need to throttle unlimited plan users if they start using large amounts of data.

Message 16 of 48 (1,069 Views)
Teacher

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


wingrider01 wrote:

you have a basic misunderstanding of the new limited plans, they have no need of being capped - they sign up to pay 15.00 per 200MB or 25.00 per 2gb, if a 2GB user goes over their limit they pay for an additional 2GB at the going price, new block of data for that period.

 

You need to understand the simple fact that a 2GB user pays for each any every overage, they tend to be a lot more conseritive in what they use over a grandfathered unlimited data plan user that never read teh fair use policy in their terms and feel they deserve everything with no consequences for their actions.

 

Bottom line - deal with the restriction that has been in the terms since day one of your agreement or more to sprint - the final remaining top 3 carrier that is still offering unlimted data (appears to be for a limited time AND a fair use policy is in effect)

 

ATT is acting within the letter of the terms. Personally would have throttled to 5GB and hard capped to email use only till next billing cycle



You have to understand that I signed up early so that I don't have to be on their tiered program.  I had no idea how much my data consumption was going to grow.  Therefore I decided to pay the extra $5 to be unlimited. 

 

By your rationale, if AT&T cuts my bandwidth to 1kbps, they would still be providing unlimited data.  Personally, I wouldn't call that unlimited.  I would call that crippled unlimited.

 

And even if you're to pay, if you are consuming a lot of data, it stilll creates load on the network limiting the performance of someone who only use 500MB a month.  Because you can throw out extra money shouldn't be the reason why people who exceed the 2GB limit don't get throttled at the expense of those who do not use their total allocated bandwidth for the month.  This is clearly discriminatory action.  Money isn't the answer to everything.

 

What is your interest in defending AT&T?  Have you been adversely affected in your service?  Are you an employee of AT&T?

Message 17 of 48 (1,067 Views)
Teacher

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


New customers increase revenue, but they also increase the need for infrastructure.

 

If tiered customers use a large amount of data, they pay for the extra data, supporting AT&T's ability to increase infrastructure to deal with it.  So AT&T doesn't have a business need to throttle them.  They are paying for what they are using.

 

Those of us on unlimited plans are a different story.  When we use large amounts of data, we don't pay anything extra for it.  Which doesn't support AT&T's ability to pay for increased infrastructure.  Which is why they have a business need to throttle unlimited plan users if they start using large amounts of data.


 

AT&T is a $170B company with $10B in cash.  They are also proceeding with the purchase of T-Mobile.  So they do have money.  I understand that they have a business to operate and I understand why they don't want to increase capacity of the 3G network.  In fact, with the LTE devices, they will be moving people off of the old 3G network and hence the capacity as the demand for the 3G network will goes down.  This will set the precedence for us when we move to the 4G network.

 

The bottom line is that AT&T wants to move us unlimited customers to a tiered program so that they can make more money.  How would you feel if your cable modem company were to put a cap of 2GB each month and start to throttle you to a dial-up modem speeds?

Message 18 of 48 (1,062 Views)

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

AT&T has no incentive to throttle tiered users, because they make money off every GB that a tiered user consumes. AT&T also has no incentive to offer unfettered service to unlimited users, as their profitability relative to those users is directly inverse to the usage those users rack up (and I know there's likely a tenuous link b/w real profitability and data consumption). So no, in no universe that operates rationally should heavy data users on unlimited plans and on tiered plans be considered in the same category or group.

 

AT&T has created a financial disincentive for users on tiered plans to consume massive amounts of data. They are NEVER going to throttle those users under normal circumstances, because those users are far more profitable to them than the users on unlimited plans. I don't understand why that's so difficult for you to get. It's not discrimination, because "heavy" unlimited users are not a class or category. Now if they started slowing down ALL unlimited users to push them to upgrading to tiered plans, I might support your little argument.

 


purplecow827 wrote:

What if there are people using 6GB of data on a tiered plan?  Would that be consider excessive?  No.  Because AT&T is making money off of them.  Ummm...  In terms of data usage we should be categorized in the same group.

 

In the future, data consumption of individuals will continue to climb with better devices and richer content.  In the early 90's, PCs with a 5MB hard drives were considered to have a lot of data storage.  Today, this isn't the case.  And tomorrow will be another story.  I had the foresight for this and made sure to get the unlimited plan.

 

Is life fair?  No it's not.  But the unlimited data is a previlege for us early adopters.

 

What I'm saying is that AT&T is discriminating and penalizing the unlimited data users who fall in the 5%.  We are not just individuals.  We're a group.  There may be others that falls in the 5% but because they are on the tiered plan, they are left alone.  Wouldn't these people place load on the network as well?  Should they be throttled as well?  Regardless of paying or not, the same restriction should be placed across the board for all.




Message 19 of 48 (1,061 Views)

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

I'm not sure where you live, but many cable providers have started capping their plans. Comcast users have a 250GB soft cap on their account. Comcast doesn't seemingly throttle (yet), but they can suspend your service for a year if you violate the cap 3 times in a 6-month period. 

 

And it's never quite as easy as saying "Why doesn't AT&T throw up more towers?". Steve Jobs even noted in one of his keynote speeches that it takes THREE years to put up a tower in the San Francisco area, thanks to regulatory hangups and the fact that nobody wants a cell tower in their back yard or obstructing their view.

 


purplecow827 wrote:

New customers increase revenue, but they also increase the need for infrastructure.

 

If tiered customers use a large amount of data, they pay for the extra data, supporting AT&T's ability to increase infrastructure to deal with it.  So AT&T doesn't have a business need to throttle them.  They are paying for what they are using.

 

Those of us on unlimited plans are a different story.  When we use large amounts of data, we don't pay anything extra for it.  Which doesn't support AT&T's ability to pay for increased infrastructure.  Which is why they have a business need to throttle unlimited plan users if they start using large amounts of data.


 

AT&T is a $170B company with $10B in cash.  They are also proceeding with the purchase of T-Mobile.  So they do have money.  I understand that they have a business to operate and I understand why they don't want to increase capacity of the 3G network.  In fact, with the LTE devices, they will be moving people off of the old 3G network and hence the capacity as the demand for the 3G network will goes down.  This will set the precedence for us when we move to the 4G network.

 

The bottom line is that AT&T wants to move us unlimited customers to a tiered program so that they can make more money.  How would you feel if your cable modem company were to put a cap of 2GB each month and start to throttle you to a dial-up modem speeds?




Message 20 of 48 (1,058 Views)

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


purplecow827 wrote:

New customers increase revenue, but they also increase the need for infrastructure.

 

If tiered customers use a large amount of data, they pay for the extra data, supporting AT&T's ability to increase infrastructure to deal with it.  So AT&T doesn't have a business need to throttle them.  They are paying for what they are using.

 

Those of us on unlimited plans are a different story.  When we use large amounts of data, we don't pay anything extra for it.  Which doesn't support AT&T's ability to pay for increased infrastructure.  Which is why they have a business need to throttle unlimited plan users if they start using large amounts of data.


 

AT&T is a $170B company with $10B in cash.  They are also proceeding with the purchase of T-Mobile.  So they do have money.  I understand that they have a business to operate and I understand why they don't want to increase capacity of the 3G network.  In fact, with the LTE devices, they will be moving people off of the old 3G network and hence the capacity as the demand for the 3G network will goes down.  This will set the precedence for us when we move to the 4G network.

 

The bottom line is that AT&T wants to move us unlimited customers to a tiered program so that they can make more money.  How would you feel if your cable modem company were to put a cap of 2GB each month and start to throttle you to a dial-up modem speeds?


 

They got that way by making sure that the services they offer are profitable to them.  And a company wanting to take in more money to pay for increasing infrastructure doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

 

Obviously they want people to move to the tiered plans.  If they didn't they wouldn't have discontinued the unlimited plan.  But the actual bottom line is that they want their customers to have a disencentive to use huge amounts of data.  Those on tiered plans have that built in.  Those of us on unlimited plans don't.  So they built us one.


Oh, and cable modem companies ARE capping people.  Higher than 2GB, but wired and cell based internet are very different things.

Message 21 of 48 (1,015 Views)
Guru

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


purplecow827 wrote:
So yes, all unlimited customers are being discriminated. Since I'm posint on the iPhone forum and since I'm an iPhone user, I have explicitly mentioned iPhone unlimited customers. I'm paying for my unlimited data usuage. I signed up early enough so I can avoid the overages.

The message that at&t is saying is that they need to throttle their heavy users to keep the network free. Then they should throttle their tiered customers who are heavy users to keep the network free as well.

Exactly--an unlimited user using 10 GB isn't using any more or less bandwidth than a tiered user who manages to consume the same amount of data in the same period of time (regardless of whether or not said tiered user pays for the overage); I'd love to hear how the pro-tiered plan folks who feel that only unlimited folks should be throttled for using too much data would spin that argument.  How is it that--theoretically speaking--a unlimited user who uses 4 GB may possibly be considered a bandwidth hog (if the 4 GB puts him in the top 5%), to the point that he could very well be throttled...yet a tiered user who uses the same amount of data isn't considered a bandwidth hog?

Message 22 of 48 (1,010 Views)
Guru

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


Ryan_ATL wrote:

The thing I find interesting is that purplecow827 does not seem to think 1.5GB in the first week of the billing cycle is a large amount of data.  That amount of data easily puts any user in the road to using at least 6GB of data per month which is a large amount of data over a month.

 

 



Well AT&T--and apparently you, based on your previous comments regarding this subject--is making the assumption that purplecow will most likely wind up using 6 GB in a month/billing cycle, hence why he's now being throttled after just one week.  What--did AT&T go back to the future or something to assume that without a doubt he's gonna continue using data at that rate for the rest of the month so let's just throttle him right now...nevermind that it could also very well be possible that he may wind up using an average of 200 MB/week for the remainder of the month and thus wind up using less than 2.5 GB for the entire month--not an extremely high amount of data by any means, given that AT&T offers a 4 GB tiered plan.

 

I am not arguing that 1.5 GB in a week isn't a lot, just the idea that some folks seem to feel it reasonable for AT&T to throttle him simply based on just a single week's--or even a single day's--worth of documented usage.  If a tiered user managed to use that much data in a week, would you feel it reasonable that he should be throttled as well?  After all, 1.5 GB in a week is a lot, no matter if the user was on an unlimited plan or a tiered one...no?  If someone should be throttled simply for using way too much in a week, then why should it matter whether it's a tiered user or an unlimited one?  Oh wait--it's okay to use way too much data in a short amount of time...as long as you pay for it.  So much for it being a bandwidth issue...

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Guru

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


BadBadLeroyBrown wrote:

AT&T has no incentive to throttle tiered users, because they make money off every GB that a tiered user consumes. AT&T also has no incentive to offer unfettered service to unlimited users, as their profitability relative to those users is directly inverse to the usage those users rack up (and I know there's likely a tenuous link b/w real profitability and data consumption). So no, in no universe that operates rationally should heavy data users on unlimited plans and on tiered plans be considered in the same category or group.

 

AT&T has created a financial disincentive for users on tiered plans to consume massive amounts of data. They are NEVER going to throttle those users under normal circumstances, because those users are far more profitable to them than the users on unlimited plans. I don't understand why that's so difficult for you to get. It's not discrimination, because "heavy" unlimited users are not a class or category. Now if they started slowing down ALL unlimited users to push them to upgrading to tiered plans, I might support your little argument.

 


purplecow827 wrote:

What if there are people using 6GB of data on a tiered plan?  Would that be consider excessive?  No.  Because AT&T is making money off of them.  Ummm...  In terms of data usage we should be categorized in the same group.

 

In the future, data consumption of individuals will continue to climb with better devices and richer content.  In the early 90's, PCs with a 5MB hard drives were considered to have a lot of data storage.  Today, this isn't the case.  And tomorrow will be another story.  I had the foresight for this and made sure to get the unlimited plan.

 

Is life fair?  No it's not.  But the unlimited data is a previlege for us early adopters.

 

What I'm saying is that AT&T is discriminating and penalizing the unlimited data users who fall in the 5%.  We are not just individuals.  We're a group.  There may be others that falls in the 5% but because they are on the tiered plan, they are left alone.  Wouldn't these people place load on the network as well?  Should they be throttled as well?  Regardless of paying or not, the same restriction should be placed across the board for all.





Fine, then that's what should be argued, rather than seeing the AT&T pundits defending AT&T for throttling, all in the name of "bandwidth"...because as your own comments bear out, AT&T's throttling of the top 5% of unlimited users has very little to do with improving bandwidth and a lot to do with profitability.

Message 24 of 48 (1,013 Views)

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


tonester wrote:

purplecow827 wrote:
So yes, all unlimited customers are being discriminated. Since I'm posint on the iPhone forum and since I'm an iPhone user, I have explicitly mentioned iPhone unlimited customers. I'm paying for my unlimited data usuage. I signed up early enough so I can avoid the overages.

The message that at&t is saying is that they need to throttle their heavy users to keep the network free. Then they should throttle their tiered customers who are heavy users to keep the network free as well.

Exactly--an unlimited user using 10 GB isn't using any more or less bandwidth than a tiered user who manages to consume the same amount of data in the same period of time (regardless of whether or not said tiered user pays for the overage); I'd love to hear how the pro-tiered plan folks who feel that only unlimited folks should be throttled for using too much data would spin that argument.  How is it that--theoretically speaking--a unlimited user who uses 4 GB may possibly be considered a bandwidth hog (if the 4 GB puts him in the top 5%), to the point that he could very well be throttled...yet a tiered user who uses the same amount of data isn't considered a bandwidth hog?


Easy.  Because the tiered user is paying for the extra bandwidth they are using, while the unlimited user isn't.  What part of that is confusing?

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Expert

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


purplecow827 wrote:

tilteddan13 wrote:

Then by that rationale, to keep things "fair" they should allow "unlimited" data to everyone Smiley Wink Also, they never said your speed was unlimited....just the data, which they are happy to provide albeit at a slower rate.



Personally, I think they should offer unlimited to everyone.

 

Going by what ATT says, most people will not go over 2GB of data usuage anyways. 


Great idea - then add the terms that if the new unlimited user sod, they get hard capped and have no access until the end of the billing cycle.

 

As the complaints about "I have been throttled, this is no unfair and you are discriminating against iphone users" posts show, your theory and suggestion is off base

Message 26 of 48 (1,002 Views)
ACE - Professor

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


purplecow827 wrote:

Is it me or does it seem like AT&T is discriminating their customers with the unlimited data plans on their iPhone?

 

From an article I've read, they will not be throttling their tiered customers since they can make money off of them.  However, for us unlimited customers, the quality of service (throttled/ aka crippled) will go down if we use what they deemed is too much.  If they were to throttle their tiered customers, then I would say things are fair.  [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

 

What are other people's thoughts?


The metered plans generate more revenue, the more the user consumes the data.

 

The unlimited plans do not.

 

If you need both large volumes of data, *and* high speed, you have the option of switching to the metered plan. There is no discrimination. If you consume 2-4GB/mo or less, you pay (on average) the same amount as you would on the metered plan, and you get exactly the same performance.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
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Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


archermoo wrote:

tonester wrote:

purplecow827 wrote:
So yes, all unlimited customers are being discriminated. Since I'm posint on the iPhone forum and since I'm an iPhone user, I have explicitly mentioned iPhone unlimited customers. I'm paying for my unlimited data usuage. I signed up early enough so I can avoid the overages.

The message that at&t is saying is that they need to throttle their heavy users to keep the network free. Then they should throttle their tiered customers who are heavy users to keep the network free as well.

Exactly--an unlimited user using 10 GB isn't using any more or less bandwidth than a tiered user who manages to consume the same amount of data in the same period of time (regardless of whether or not said tiered user pays for the overage); I'd love to hear how the pro-tiered plan folks who feel that only unlimited folks should be throttled for using too much data would spin that argument.  How is it that--theoretically speaking--a unlimited user who uses 4 GB may possibly be considered a bandwidth hog (if the 4 GB puts him in the top 5%), to the point that he could very well be throttled...yet a tiered user who uses the same amount of data isn't considered a bandwidth hog?


Easy.  Because the tiered user is paying for the extra bandwidth they are using, while the unlimited user isn't.  What part of that is confusing?


Well then please enlighten me...exactly what and/or how much bandwidth is the unlimited user paying for?  Or put it this way--define "extra" bandwidth?  How much bandwidth would fairly and reasonably be considered "extra" for an unlimited user--3 GB?  5 GB?  10 GB?  If we were to believe what some people have said in regards to AT&T calculating the top 5% on a daily basis, then hypothetically speaking any amount could be considered "extra", as far as unlimited users are concerned.

 

Logically, it should stand to reason that the unlimited user should be able and/or allowed to use at least 2 GB unthrottled since that is the maximum amount of data a 2 GB tiered user is allowed to use without being charged extra...and if we were to be completely fair on a per-cost basis, the unlimited user should be allowed to use up to 2.4 GB without fear of being throttled (if you prorate the 2 GB/$25 cost to $30).  Wouldn't you agree that such an assessment/compromise is fair?

Message 28 of 48 (984 Views)

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

Right, but that's 2GB over an entire MONTH. This user has consumed 1.5GB in a WEEK. And although we don't know definitively how AT&T calculates their "top 5%" or when they flip the switch on throttling, it's highly likely that this isn't the user's first rodeo of high data consumption. I find it very difficult to believe that AT&T just started randomly throttling a user who had never previously been in the top 5%.

 

Look, this argument has played out in so many ways over the last several years, from the "How dare AT&T take away my $20 MediaMax Unlimited & force me onto a Smartphone plan", to "How dare AT&T charge me for tethering when there's an app right on my phone that permits it", with the common theme being "Unlimited is Unlimited"....no, it's not. Unlimited means you can consume an unlimited quantity of data, but AT&T has the right to specify how you consume it.

 


tonester wrote:

archermoo wrote:

Well then please enlighten me...exactly what and/or how much bandwidth is the unlimited user paying for?  Or put it this way--define "extra" bandwidth?  How much bandwidth would fairly and reasonably be considered "extra" for an unlimited user--3 GB?  5 GB?  10 GB?  If we were to believe what some people have said in regards to AT&T calculating the top 5% on a daily basis, then hypothetically speaking any amount could be considered "extra", as far as unlimited users are concerned.

 

Logically, it should stand to reason that the unlimited user should be able and/or allowed to use at least 2 GB unthrottled since that is the maximum amount of data a 2 GB tiered user is allowed to use without being charged extra...and if we were to be completely fair on a per-cost basis, the unlimited user should be allowed to use up to 2.4 GB without fear of being throttled (if you prorate the 2 GB/$25 cost to $30).  Wouldn't you agree that such an assessment/compromise is fair?




Message 29 of 48 (973 Views)

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


BadBadLeroyBrown wrote:

Right, but that's 2GB over an entire MONTH. This user has consumed 1.5GB in a WEEK. And although we don't know definitively how AT&T calculates their "top 5%" or when they flip the switch on throttling, it's highly likely that this isn't the user's first rodeo of high data consumption. I find it very difficult to believe that AT&T just started randomly throttling a user who had never previously been in the top 5%.

 

Look, this argument has played out in so many ways over the last several years, from the "How dare AT&T take away my $20 MediaMax Unlimited & force me onto a Smartphone plan", to "How dare AT&T charge me for tethering when there's an app right on my phone that permits it", with the common theme being "Unlimited is Unlimited"....no, it's not. Unlimited means you can consume an unlimited quantity of data, but AT&T has the right to specify how you consume it.

 


In fact we know that they had to have had at least 1 previous warning, as the first month you are in the top 5% they send you a warning.  It is only in the next month that they actually throttle your access.  Plus they admitted that the previous billing period they used 6GB of data.  1.5 GB of data in a week puts them on track for the same kind of usage this month, so it seems a pretty reasonable assumption that that is where they are headed.
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