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AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


tonester wrote:

archermoo wrote:

tonester wrote:

purplecow827 wrote:
So yes, all unlimited customers are being discriminated. Since I'm posint on the iPhone forum and since I'm an iPhone user, I have explicitly mentioned iPhone unlimited customers. I'm paying for my unlimited data usuage. I signed up early enough so I can avoid the overages.

The message that at&t is saying is that they need to throttle their heavy users to keep the network free. Then they should throttle their tiered customers who are heavy users to keep the network free as well.

Exactly--an unlimited user using 10 GB isn't using any more or less bandwidth than a tiered user who manages to consume the same amount of data in the same period of time (regardless of whether or not said tiered user pays for the overage); I'd love to hear how the pro-tiered plan folks who feel that only unlimited folks should be throttled for using too much data would spin that argument.  How is it that--theoretically speaking--a unlimited user who uses 4 GB may possibly be considered a bandwidth hog (if the 4 GB puts him in the top 5%), to the point that he could very well be throttled...yet a tiered user who uses the same amount of data isn't considered a bandwidth hog?


Easy.  Because the tiered user is paying for the extra bandwidth they are using, while the unlimited user isn't.  What part of that is confusing?


Well then please enlighten me...exactly what and/or how much bandwidth is the unlimited user paying for?  Or put it this way--define "extra" bandwidth?  How much bandwidth would fairly and reasonably be considered "extra" for an unlimited user--3 GB?  5 GB?  10 GB?  If we were to believe what some people have said in regards to AT&T calculating the top 5% on a daily basis, then hypothetically speaking any amount could be considered "extra", as far as unlimited users are concerned.

 

Logically, it should stand to reason that the unlimited user should be able and/or allowed to use at least 2 GB unthrottled since that is the maximum amount of data a 2 GB tiered user is allowed to use without being charged extra...and if we were to be completely fair on a per-cost basis, the unlimited user should be allowed to use up to 2.4 GB without fear of being throttled (if you prorate the 2 GB/$25 cost to $30).  Wouldn't you agree that such an assessment/compromise is fair?


I'm less concerned with there being a line in the sand.  The problem with drawing lines in the sand is that it tempts people to walk right up to them, and then maybe try and see what heppens if they try pushing past them.  I'm fine with AT&T keeping the criteria they use for determining what they consider to be abusive/excessive to themselves.  You get one billing period "free", and then according to them you get several warnings letting you know that your usage is on track to get you throttled before it actually happens.  The real world examples of people getting warned/throttled reported so far seem pretty reasonable to me.  I'll hold off on worrying about it until I see examples of them being unreasonable.

Message 31 of 48
Professor

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


tonester wrote:
Well then please enlighten me...exactly what and/or how much bandwidth is the unlimited user paying for?

As much as they want. Some of which is unthrottled. At any point in a month you are ranked vs everyone else on unlimited. If you fall into the top 5% users, you either get

 1) warned if never throttled or

 2) throttled if warned or just off throttle

 

There is probably some gate factor on usage (who knows) such that the above doesn't kick in until you cross some threshold of usage at each point in the cycle. Something putting you on track to consume more than 2-5GB of data total in the month would seem reasonable.

 

But you're unlimited. You can stream whatever you want, 24/7, like it's a wired broadband connection. Once you're throttled, you can continue to stream data at the throttled rate, 24/7.

 

Tell me what throughput you're getting in mbps throttled, and I can compute the total data consumption you could get in the remaining 22.5 days, plus the 1.5GB you got unthrottled. For a guess, let's say they drop you to TMobile throttle speeds of .1mbps (100kb/sec)

 

768 kB a minute * 60 * 24 * 22.5 = 23.7304688 gigabytes

 

Plus your 1.5GB is a healthy 25GB and change.

Message 32 of 48
Guru

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


johninsj wrote:

tonester wrote:
Well then please enlighten me...exactly what and/or how much bandwidth is the unlimited user paying for?

As much as they want. Some of which is unthrottled. At any point in a month you are ranked vs everyone else on unlimited. If you fall into the top 5% users, you either get

 1) warned if never throttled or

 2) throttled if warned or just off throttle

 

There is probably some gate factor on usage (who knows) such that the above doesn't kick in until you cross some threshold of usage at each point in the cycle. Something putting you on track to consume more than 2-5GB of data total in the month would seem reasonable.

 

But you're unlimited. You can stream whatever you want, 24/7, like it's a wired broadband connection. Once you're throttled, you can continue to stream data at the throttled rate, 24/7.

 

Tell me what throughput you're getting in mbps throttled, and I can compute the total data consumption you could get in the remaining 22.5 days, plus the 1.5GB you got unthrottled. For a guess, let's say they drop you to TMobile throttle speeds of .1mbps (100kb/sec)

 

768 kB a minute * 60 * 24 * 22.5 = 23.7304688 gigabytes

 

Plus your 1.5GB is a healthy 25GB and change.


Understood, but again, my problem with all of that is that it is theoretically possible for someone to be throttled for what possibly may have been a one-time occurence; e.g., say I happened to stream Netflix and/or other high-data stuff on the very first day of my billing cycle and thus wound up using 200 MB that day--AT&T does its thing later that day and determines that that amount puts me in the top 5%, thus throttling me (let's just assume that I had hit the top 5% once before--e.g., I streamed 200 MB one day last month--in my previous billing cycle and thus received the required warning from AT&T).  I could never come close to hitting 200 MB/day for any other day, for the rest of the billing cycle--thus possibly using not even close to 2 GB total--yet because of one single transgression I should be rightfully "punished" for the remainder of the month?  I sure hope no one is defending AT&T if such a scenario were to occur...

 

And no--the scenario I gave is not farfetched by any means; I've actually had a day where I used ~200 MB on that day only, but never came close to using that much on any of the other days, thus winding up using barely over 1 GB for the entire billing cycle--seriously.  Now whether I was actually throttled or not--hard to say since I'm lucky to get even 1Mbps in many of the areas I hang out at, but that's a story for a different thread--but suffice it to say, if I were indeed throttled for the rest of the month based on that one day's usage which somehow put me in the top 5% for that day, combined with the fact that I didn't come close to using 2 GB for the entire month...where is the fairness in that?

Message 33 of 48
Professor

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

Has any one who has used a couple of hundred MB in one day, and then used much less amounts in subsequent days been tagged with a message and had their data throttled like you suggest? The person who used 1.5 GB in a week had used 6 GB in the previous month, so it sounds like he is a high data user. You can imagine any kind of "what-if" scenario you want, but it doesn't sound like AT&T is tagging people who just have a one day spike in usage.
Message 34 of 48
Contributor

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

AT&T is there for the money! Customer service has gone out the window. I'm an unlimited customer and I do not use 2GB  or greater of air time, and will not pay their current prices so the company can make the extra $ from the consumer. Basically, they take and not give back! The only thing they care about are their BONUSES, after their calendar/fiscal year comes to an end.

Message 35 of 48
Professor

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

If AT&T truly only cared about money, then they would simply drop unlimited data for everyone and force grandfathered people onto a tiered plan as soon as their contract was up or they signed a new contract. They don't have to grandfather anyone. And yes, AT&T is a business so they do have to worry about mundain things like profit and shareholder value. So do other cell phone companies.
Message 36 of 48
Professor

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


tonester wrote:

johninsj wrote:

tonester wrote:
Well then please enlighten me...exactly what and/or how much bandwidth is the unlimited user paying for?

As much as they want. Some of which is unthrottled. At any point in a month you are ranked vs everyone else on unlimited. If you fall into the top 5% users, you either get

 1) warned if never throttled or

 2) throttled if warned or just off throttle

 

There is probably some gate factor on usage (who knows) such that the above doesn't kick in until you cross some threshold of usage at each point in the cycle. Something putting you on track to consume more than 2-5GB of data total in the month would seem reasonable.

 

But you're unlimited. You can stream whatever you want, 24/7, like it's a wired broadband connection. Once you're throttled, you can continue to stream data at the throttled rate, 24/7.

 

Tell me what throughput you're getting in mbps throttled, and I can compute the total data consumption you could get in the remaining 22.5 days, plus the 1.5GB you got unthrottled. For a guess, let's say they drop you to TMobile throttle speeds of .1mbps (100kb/sec)

 

768 kB a minute * 60 * 24 * 22.5 = 23.7304688 gigabytes

 

Plus your 1.5GB is a healthy 25GB and change.


Understood, but again, my problem with all of that is that it is theoretically possible for someone to be throttled for what possibly may have been a one-time occurence; e.g., say I happened to stream Netflix and/or other high-data stuff on the very first day of my billing cycle and thus wound up using 200 MB that day--AT&T does its thing later that day and determines that that amount puts me in the top 5%, thus throttling me (let's just assume that I had hit the top 5% once before--e.g., I streamed 200 MB one day last month--in my previous billing cycle and thus received the required warning from AT&T).  I could never come close to hitting 200 MB/day for any other day, for the rest of the billing cycle--thus possibly using not even close to 2 GB total--yet because of one single transgression I should be rightfully "punished" for the remainder of the month?  I sure hope no one is defending AT&T if such a scenario were to occur...

 

And no--the scenario I gave is not farfetched by any means; I've actually had a day where I used ~200 MB on that day only, but never came close to using that much on any of the other days, thus winding up using barely over 1 GB for the entire billing cycle--seriously.  Now whether I was actually throttled or not--hard to say since I'm lucky to get even 1Mbps in many of the areas I hang out at, but that's a story for a different thread--but suffice it to say, if I were indeed throttled for the rest of the month based on that one day's usage which somehow put me in the top 5% for that day, combined with the fact that I didn't come close to using 2 GB for the entire month...where is the fairness in that?


No one knows the actual formula. I suspect there are a number of factors, like

* was throttled or warned last month and

* used nearly all of 2GB very early in the next month and

* among the top data users at that point in the current month...

 

The person we're all basing this on self-reported getting throttled after 6GB in the first month (which based on the AT&T Press Release from October means he was Warned in October, throttled in November) and then Throttled again after 1.5GB in a week the next month. So we're all guessing from that one single data point.

 

Who knows what the actual formula is. It appears that even with throttling you can get 20-30GB out of AT&T in a month. This is clearly lower than (assume 1Mbit/sec here) the 316 GB you could pull unthrottled, sure, but it's still 10-15 times more than the 2GB metered plan includes in the base price.

Message 37 of 48

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


tonester wrote:

johninsj wrote:

tonester wrote:
Well then please enlighten me...exactly what and/or how much bandwidth is the unlimited user paying for?

As much as they want. Some of which is unthrottled. At any point in a month you are ranked vs everyone else on unlimited. If you fall into the top 5% users, you either get

 1) warned if never throttled or

 2) throttled if warned or just off throttle

 

There is probably some gate factor on usage (who knows) such that the above doesn't kick in until you cross some threshold of usage at each point in the cycle. Something putting you on track to consume more than 2-5GB of data total in the month would seem reasonable.

 

But you're unlimited. You can stream whatever you want, 24/7, like it's a wired broadband connection. Once you're throttled, you can continue to stream data at the throttled rate, 24/7.

 

Tell me what throughput you're getting in mbps throttled, and I can compute the total data consumption you could get in the remaining 22.5 days, plus the 1.5GB you got unthrottled. For a guess, let's say they drop you to TMobile throttle speeds of .1mbps (100kb/sec)

 

768 kB a minute * 60 * 24 * 22.5 = 23.7304688 gigabytes

 

Plus your 1.5GB is a healthy 25GB and change.


Understood, but again, my problem with all of that is that it is theoretically possible for someone to be throttled for what possibly may have been a one-time occurence; e.g., say I happened to stream Netflix and/or other high-data stuff on the very first day of my billing cycle and thus wound up using 200 MB that day--AT&T does its thing later that day and determines that that amount puts me in the top 5%, thus throttling me (let's just assume that I had hit the top 5% once before--e.g., I streamed 200 MB one day last month--in my previous billing cycle and thus received the required warning from AT&T).  I could never come close to hitting 200 MB/day for any other day, for the rest of the billing cycle--thus possibly using not even close to 2 GB total--yet because of one single transgression I should be rightfully "punished" for the remainder of the month?  I sure hope no one is defending AT&T if such a scenario were to occur...

 

And no--the scenario I gave is not farfetched by any means; I've actually had a day where I used ~200 MB on that day only, but never came close to using that much on any of the other days, thus winding up using barely over 1 GB for the entire billing cycle--seriously.  Now whether I was actually throttled or not--hard to say since I'm lucky to get even 1Mbps in many of the areas I hang out at, but that's a story for a different thread--but suffice it to say, if I were indeed throttled for the rest of the month based on that one day's usage which somehow put me in the top 5% for that day, combined with the fact that I didn't come close to using 2 GB for the entire month...where is the fairness in that?


Actually you can't get throttled for a one time occurance.  Because the first time that you have what AT&T considers excessive use you get a warning.  It is only on your next billing period that you might get throttled.  So at worst it might be a two time occurance.  However you don't even know that.  Right now you are complaining and worrying about a circumstance, and you don't even know if it is possible.

 

The examples that I've seen on the board so far are someone who used 6GB one month, and was then throttled a week into his next billing cycle when he was right on target for another 6GB month.  And then another user who just said that he had used just short of 2GB and was throttled, but I haven't heard anything else about his usage.  Obviously he was also warned in the prior billing cycle, but I haven't seen anything about how much data he used that month, nor how far he was into the billing cycle that he got throttled in.

 

Personally I'd suggest waiting until you find out if it actually is possible for someone to use 200MB of data in two consecutive billing periods and end up throttled before you worry about it.  Personally I doubt that it is.

Message 38 of 48
Mentor

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

Thr problem isn't AT&T... the problem is that many unlimited users feel ENTITLED... they think the word unlimited means they can do as they please with NO consquences... forever!  No one said AT&T would honor those unlimited plans forever without changes.

 

News flash...

 

AT&T changed the rules... guess what... they can do that as often as they want. and the NEW rules say... if you are unlimitied and you abused that plan by using what AT&T sees as excessive... they will throtle you... period!

 

If you don't like it... TOO BAD... This is how it is going to be everywhere. Because most Interenet comapnies.. mobile and home.. have this type of rule now. Sprint is the last in the mobile world..of old school unlimited ... and rumors are flying that they too are talking change. Just like Verizon did. The days of total unlimited speeds and data are coming to an end.

Message 39 of 48
Guru

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

The issue is that it would seem that "excessive" apparently can be viewed subjectively; I mean, it could be theoretically possible that, depending on how the usage numbers come out for a particular period, even usage as low as 3 GB in a month could be considered "excessive". Put it this way--should an unlimited user be throttled at all if his usage rate is such that he doesn't exceed 4 GB?  I think such a user shouldn't be throttled for having used 4 GB, considering that AT&T offers a 4 GB data plan...in which case there is no way anyone could argue that 4 GB (but no more than that) would be considered an excessive amount of data.

 

Now again--I am not arguing that someone using 6GB shouldn't be throttled, but rather, there seems to be no consensus as to what would be considered excessive usage.

Message 40 of 48

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


tonester wrote:

The issue is that it would seem that "excessive" apparently can be viewed subjectively; I mean, it could be theoretically possible that, depending on how the usage numbers come out for a particular period, even usage as low as 3 GB in a month could be considered "excessive". Put it this way--should an unlimited user be throttled at all if his usage rate is such that he doesn't exceed 4 GB?  I think such a user shouldn't be throttled for having used 4 GB, considering that AT&T offers a 4 GB data plan...in which case there is no way anyone could argue that 4 GB (but no more than that) would be considered an excessive amount of data.

 

Now again--I am not arguing that someone using 6GB shouldn't be throttled, but rather, there seems to be no consensus as to what would be considered excessive usage.


The definition that AT&T seems to be using is "data usage in the top 5% of users", at least as excessive applies to people on the grandfathered unlimited plans.  For the plans that charge users more as they use more data, I'd say that the term "excessive" doesn't really apply.  Presumably AT&T set the charges up such that they charge more for the extra data that it costs them to provide.

Message 41 of 48
Highlighted
Professor

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...


tonester wrote:

 Put it this way--should an unlimited user be throttled at all if his usage rate is such that he doesn't exceed 4 GB?  I think such a user shouldn't be throttled for having used 4 GB, considering that AT&T offers a 4 GB data plan...in which case there is no way anyone could argue that 4 GB (but no more than that) would be considered an excessive amount of data.



Unlimited users pay $30/mo for unlimited data, some of which will not be throttled. Metered plan users (all of them except those on the 200MB plans) pay $25 for 2GB and then $10 per GB after, for every GB used - even the "4GB" users who enable tethering.

 

Translating the unlimited plan to the metered plan, you could argue that 2.5GB would be the cut-off for non-throttled data (which would represent $25 + $5 for .5GB), but you'd still be forgetting that the unlitmied user, even after being throttled, could consume upwards of 30GB a month, for $30, vs $305 for the metered user. For the extra $275 the metered user "buys" the speed you don't get on the unlimited plan.

 

If you NEED unlimited data with full speed, you have the option to pay for it.

Message 42 of 48
Guru

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

So are you trying to argue that anyone in the top 5% should be throttled, regardless of whatever the actual data usage quantifiably measures out to be for that particular period...all because of the fact that they can use as much data as they want to without having to pay extra?  Also--it has been argued in the past that, throttled or not, "unlimited" does not really mean unlimited, so who knows if AT&T may not only throttle someone, but also cut off their usage if they still manage to use an arbitrarily extreme amount of data.  Even if a person somehow managed to be able to use 10 GB in a month even if most of it was under throttled conditions (not completely impossible to achieve)...I'm sure there will be more than a few folks who'll still complain about that person being a data hog.  Heck--some folks (not necessarily here) feel that usage even as low as 3-4 GB/month would be considered excessive...so not sure how throttling will help placate these folks if someone those "data hogs" still managed to use 3-4 GB.

Message 43 of 48
Contributor

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

Here is the plain and simple truth. When I bought my I phone the sales person told me it would be better to purchase the unlimited plan so I wouldn't have to worry about going over any limits. I bought it so I expect to get what I paid for, NO limits! AT&T finally figures out that they can make more money by selling limited plans and quits offering the unlimited and selling a tiered plans. Now they want force the unlimited users to either chance service altogether or change to a tier plan. NO ONE on a tier plan is getting throttled. I don't call myself a data hog. AT&T still offers a 5GB plan. If you buy that, does it make you a hog? Don't say no because you pay for it! Remember! I pay for unlimited!! No matter what the amount paid for it, it is a service that AT&T offered at that price and they must honor their agreement. It's discrimination because they use the excuse that high data is clogging the airways. If that's true then everyone should be limited to 3GB, not just the unlimited users. If that's true why don't they throttle the 5GB tier plan after 3GB. Don't say because you pay!!! So do I!!! AT&T made the agreement with me for unlimited DATA!!! I don't abuse it!! Everything on these smart phones require data use. Don't offer a service then get mad when we use it.
Message 44 of 48
Professor

Re: AT&T Discriminate Unlimited data iPhone customers...

Wow, way to top a year old thread.

 

Here's the plain and simple truth. A service comes with a contract, which you read and agree to. The terms of the contract are the only legally binding thing that exists.

 

All other arguments are meaningless.

 

Currently, for $30, you can either get 3GB + metered billing, or if you have a very old plan that is grandfathered in, 3GB + unlimited free but throttled data.

 

If you are on a grandfathered plan, you cannot use any new features added after than plan was frozen, like tethering.

 

You are free to choose a new plan, if you would like any features offered by the new plan,

 

Since your contract states what you are and are not legally entitled to, I would suggest carefully reading it - you signed it, you might want to understand what the terms were that you agreed to.

Message 45 of 48
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