Lumia 640xl Windows 10 update

@jcmaedlYeah, I get it, the desire to have the OTA.

Please keep in mind, I'm just a user, like everyone else, just one who helps a lot, so I don't have anymore "leverage" than the rest of us, I'm just trying to help the best I can here.

I agree, AT&T should be more timely about these, but it's not just W10m that's got an issue, they are a bit "behind" on a good deal of Android devices as well, compared to some carriers.

It would be awesome if they were releasing updates as soon as they got posted, say each RP build, with their "overlay" as well, but my guess is that W10m has been de-prioritized, a great deal.

They do allow you go around them, and just sign up for Insider, it's more or less known as the way to do this.  Once you sign up, say for the Release Preview builds, you'll keep getting them (of course if you like a build, you can opt-out at any point too), regularly, as stabilized builds roll out for MS.

They don't block this, in any way, shape, or form, so effectively they are "getting out of the way", just not in as obvious a manner as some would prefer.

I think most people with Android delays would be head-over-hills to have this option, but they don't, they're very "bound" to AT&T, since their devices aren't agnostic at all, they're carrier-specific models.

Do with it what you want, but you have the capability to grab the current builds, the very good builds, the same ones that AT&T would be releasing, if the W10m platform was more popular currently.

I think that if you wait for OTA, you'll be playing a game of "chicken" with deprecated apps and services, which isn't fun for anyone, and sort of senseless, given the above...

I will send a private message to AT&T though, I'm not sure they're on top of the deprecation issue, and see if that maybe, possibly triggers things, who knows, it can't hurt.

@jcmaedl You've been given an option to bypass the waiting game with AT&T. Regardless of AT&T doing the right or wrong thing by not releasing so far, if you choose to not accept viable options to get what you want, then you are by default accepting to play the waiting game with AT&T. It's obviously not an important update to you or you'd take the avialable path to get it; at least I'd never wait on something that is important to me

AT&T is out of the way if you don't buy the device from AT&T. If you do buy the device from AT&T and it has their brand on it, guess what? You've purchased an AT&T Device, not a microsoft just a Microsoft device. Even if the only thing AT&T doe is slap their logo on it and load some useless apps on the device, it's still their device now. This is also true with those android devices we own were the branding goes even deeper. We have to wait on AT&T for those updates as well. If we don't want to wait on updates the first option is not buy an AT&T Device. For Windows Users you can do this through the Windows Store currently. I strongly encourage users of both Windows 10 Mobile and Android to consider the option of unbranded. but.... there are issues there.

The one bright spot for Windows 10 Mobile users at least, there is an easy low-risk way to get the latest OS onto the branded device. I don't have that for my Android devices currently 😞 - yes I know in some cases I can root then blah blah blah -

So bottom line here for WIndows 10 Mobile:

Own an AT&T device then accept that you have the following options.

1. Wait

2. Insider program

NOTE: Complaining and crying about the wait will not change the duration of the wait. You have as much influence on that wait as a drop of water does falling into the ocean.

@pgrey

I realize you are just a user and I apologize if my post came across as critical of you, that was not my intent, and it's certainly not my intent to start any kind of argument. My hope was that someone who is an AT&T employee actually takes notice of these conversations - of all our points. I appreciate the effort behind the PM.

You're totally right - it's nice that AT&T doesn't block MS in any way, and certainly more fair than what they make Android users go through if they want an update sooner or to change OS versions entirely (rooting, etc.).  Things like the Insider Progam are great, and something that I myself might actually use. You're right - the builds are good, but they are still preview builds. I think a carrier policy that encourages their use can cause issues for the average Joe. For example, Microsoft's promise to support 10 all devices running 8.1. The 1020 was able to receive Insider builds and run 10 really well, that is until MSFT decided it and dozens of other devices wouldn't be supported past a certain build (maybe to sell some new devices?? ). A savvy user who had used IP to avoid a potential delay by AT&T could handle this OK and revert. But what about other people who might have used IP just to obtain sooner what they thought would eventually come from the carrier, only to learn that it won't? Will they understand what's happening? Again, I'm not saying your suggestion to use IP is not helpful.  I'm being critical of the idea that that's the "solution" AT&T leaves us with.

To be an obstacle to deployment, especially without any stated reason, is really bad. Perhaps my "get out of the way" comment was poorly worded - I guess more specifically I'm suggesting they either remove themselves completely, thereby making Microsoft entirely responsible for the rollout like they are with PCs, or coordinate fully with Microsoft so that when a new official build comes out they depoly it immediately. As a user/customer, I shouldn't have to even think about any of this.

As an aside, I am not chomping at the bit to get W10M, and I probably wouldn't if it wasn't for deprecation of key stuff. I actually bought a 950 and returned it because W10M was so buggy and had so many features removed.  And that was an official build, out of the box! So if AT&T continues to delay updates, I won't get fixes to something that I already think is pretty terrible unless I play chicken with MSFT.  Don't make me play chicken AT&T!

@jcmaedl Yeah, there's no "great" solution, and I think with current market penetration, I suspect this will not change much.

But, like you say, there are "good" solutions.  Most IP Release Preview builds go on to become the latest released builds, almost without fail.

You can also enter the IP-RP program, and then exit, and you'll still get the latest MS releases, despite any action by AT&T, once you're "in", you'll keep getting releases (no previews, unless you opt back in).  I tend to think the program is almost the ultimate in flexible, it's hard to compare it to any other mobile OS out there.

The W10m that's out there now is worlds different then the .107 build that you got on your 950, way back.  The Anniversary Update had some issues again, but those are slowly getting fixed, and it's still way, way better than the initial.

I've posed the question on an internal board, just to make sure AT&T is aware of the deprecation issue, particularly the Anniversary build one, not to mention the 640XL stuck on 8.1.  I did mention the possibility of suggesting IP-RP builds, so we'll see.

I can see where AT&T is in a tough spot too, they maybe have a few hundred-thousand Win Phone users still (if that many), and probably millions of various Android users spread across multiple platforms that they "must" be involved in for updates.

It's a tough spot for users, sort of, but there are choices, at least you're not on an old Android phone, an branded model, that's been declared EOL.  Then your options are truly "sketchy", as you mention.

I try to convince people, regularly, that the IP-RP builds are the way to go, and they'll be far better off if they just click those couple of boxes, and then decide to stay in or just get released builds.  It's a way better deal than getting deprecated, or left behind on 8.1, when you could've moved that phone to W10m.  

I happen to think it's miles ahead of 8.1, in terms of functionality, although admittedly the stability lags pretty far.

BTW: I have my daughter set up on a 1020, running the current W10m Anniversary builds, so there are options, to be explored, I just can't say more than that here.  She has basically zero issues too, I can't remember when she last mentioned a problem.

{keep it courteous}

@ODad

I actually have used the Insider Preview system before, many times.  I also hold an advanced degree in IT, and served as the Director of Technology and Operations in a technology manufacturing environment for 11 years. Treating me like I am an igorant crybaby who doesn't understand business, technology, or his options is uncalled for. I probably know, have experienced, and understand quite a bit more than you think.

What is at issue is AT&T's treatment of the customer.  As a customer, this is my perspective: I bought an AT&T branded device from an AT&T store that had a sign that advertised the device as having the ability to upgrade to Windows 10 "WHEN AVAILABLE."  That upgrade has been available for some time and AT&T has chosen not to deploy it. AT&T has stated no reason for this delay, and we can see the update running elsewhere. Aside from being a breach of implied contract, this decision places me as a customer at some risk of losing functionality of my device.

The consumer should not have to think about any kind of alternative way to get something promised to them in a timely manner.  The average person doesn't think about how to do anything except using their device.  The timing of this update is important because some things require it to continue working. What happens when a lady can't Skype with her grandchild because AT&T delayed the deployment so long that Skype doesn't work anymore? That kind of thing is unlikely to be important to you, but it isn't to someone who shelled out money for something that's supposed to work.

It is a legitimate thing for customers to ask for what they are supposed to have, and to complain about those things that do not meet their needs. That is how change happens in an organization.    As to your assertion that we have as little influence as a drop in an ocean, check to see who responded to this post first.  Someone is looking at this stuff.  Maybe they care, maybe they don't, but they are looking. Enough responsses gets people to look harder. 

@pgrey

Well said.  I will have to take another look at options for our 1020! I could steal the SIM out of my 2520 (RIP ) if I really wanted to make another go of it. Sadly, I stopped looking into options after I heard they would be stopping releases of 10. Thanks for the discourse, a good discussion.

Also thanks much for the efforts to communicate these things internally, that's awesome of you!

@jcmaedl No offense, but I do expect that advanced technology people would also have the knowledge that it's a good thing to reading other topics on the same subject if they exist, A quick read tells us that AT&T DOESN'T announce or explain why they've not released something or if and when they will. Not just with Windows, but with all devices. What I've written is also directed towards ALL readers, not just you.

Now back to you. I fully understand that as a customer you expect AT&T to deliver certain services. I worked for the largest industrial automation manufacturer in the world for almost 20-years as a Field Application Engineer. I understand branding, private labeling and most importantly customer support. When someone takes another's manufacutured product and puts their name on it, as AT&T has... there is a level of responsibliy they owe those that purchased the product. They represent the product as theirs by putting their name on it. There are slight differences in how AT&T does this with Android vs Windows - AT&T can get thier hooks into Andorid a bit more -, both are the same in the end for the customer.

Also, the 950 that you returned... while it was an official build a couple of thigs. It was most likely one of the earlier builds. No me, I knew when I purchased my 950 XL I'd have what was not a feature complete version of windows 10 mobile. I really questioned it being in AT&T hands so early. I recall the same thing was done with the Lumia 930 on Verizon with 8.1. Today the 950 and 950 XL are very good devices with latest firmware and OS. In December? NO.