HD Compression Here To Stay?

Expert

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?

[ Edited ]

DRN94 wrote:

I have a technician coming over in the next couple hours.  A support rep found crosstalk between my modem and the DSLAM which could cause a degradation in the picture quality.  Not entirely convinced it's what is causing the compression artifacts but the support rep thought it would help.


 

Before the technician arrives, you may want to download UV Realtime (www.uvrealtime.com) and capture screenshots of the IP/Profile, Error Table, and Bitloading screens.  Post them here in the forum using the icon that looks like a small tree.

 

If the line errors are too high for the modem to properly correct, this could be a potential source of problems, although it usually doesn't manifest as HD picture quality problems.  Usually the effect is pixelation/freezing/loss of signal.

 

But it still would be helpful to have "before" and "after" screenshots for comparison.

 

Message 16 of 50 (5,734 Views)
Explorer

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?

I already have UVRealtime installed.  I took screenshots for the before.  Waiting for him to come over before I do the after.  No errors were listed on the error table.  Not sure exactly what the side effect of crosstalk would be if no errors or lost packets have been found...

Message 17 of 50 (5,720 Views)
Scholar

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?

After reading all these posts I am still sticking with what I said earlier about the Uverse HD picture being the worst of the 4 that I have been able to watch. The difference is clear. That being said I will say that Uverse does a much better job with 720p signals than it does with 1080i.
Message 18 of 50 (5,687 Views)
Expert

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?


Ish Kabibble wrote:
That being said I will say that Uverse does a much better job with 720p signals than it does with 1080i.

 

Just about any provider does, since the bandwidth requirements for 720p are lower than for 1080i for a given quality level.

 

Message 19 of 50 (5,679 Views)
Explorer

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?

[ Edited ]

Well the guy came and said there's nothing he can do about crosstalk and that crosstalk is normal for the copper wiring they use and that it should have little to no affect on picture quality as long as my modem reaches certain thresholds.  Again he did the same tests as the last guy and everything passed with flying green colors.  The only bad thing was some bitloading drops on certain frequencies but he said that shouldn't impact my service unless it's across the entire spectrum and that the amount of drops I'm getting is normal if not better than most.

He gave me a free HDMI cable and left.  So I'm guessing that I'm getting the best possible picture quality AT&T U-Verse has to offer.  And quite frankly I'm unimpressed.  Mind you I've had U-Verse for over 4 years and upgraded to HD recently after a friend convinced me with his Comcast HD picture quality.

Supposedly the technician's Comcast at his house has worse picture quality than what I'm getting but I'm not really sure if that is truthful.  My friend has Comcast and his picture quality is crisp and clear.  Possibly Comcast's quality degrades more over distances than TVIP does.  Who knows?  All I know is I'm getting the best possible picture quality from AT&T U-Verse and in my opinion it stinks.  I guess I'll have to just tolerate it and hope it gets better in the future.

I love AT&T U-Verse's features for my TV and internet, it does everything me and my family wants but the only con is the HD picture quality.  I've said it and I know others have too.  I've exhausted every effort to get better picture quality and nothing has worked.  I'm throwing in the towel.

Message 20 of 50 (5,658 Views)
Highlighted
Scholar

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?

There is great HD on DISH , DirecTV , COMCAST and then there is U-verse, the absolute worst HD PQ availabe.

Message 21 of 50 (5,646 Views)
ACE - Professor

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?


dian1950 wrote:

There is great HD on DISH , DirecTV , COMCAST and then there is U-verse, the absolute worst HD PQ availabe.


Dian1950 aka Larry11 aka Paul 416 aka numerous other nicknames:

 

Comcast is not available in my area. What should I do? As an executive with Comcast, can you expand their coverage area? Since you are such a believer in Comcast as shown by your bi-weekly commercials, I want to experience the superiority of Comcast that you get to enjoy.

 

Owning a computer and not having the internet is like buying a refrigerator and not stocking it with food.
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 22 of 50 (5,635 Views)
Explorer

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?

I can't get the stream analyzer to detect any streams.  Put the correct WAN, egress, and ingress profiles right.  Enabled the gathering of STB channel/Stream Data.  My computer is plugged into the same 2wire DSL modem/router that the DVR is plugged into.  What else do I need to do?

Message 23 of 50 (5,615 Views)
Expert

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?

Follow the setup diagram on page 34 of the documentation for Ethernet-connected STBs. You must use a standard Ethernet switch -- you cannot plug the computer running the stream analyzer into the U-Verse 2Wire router, that will not work.
Message 24 of 50 (5,579 Views)
Explorer

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?

Meh.  I don't think it's worth going through all that and spending money on a LAN switch.  Apparently I'm getting the best U-Verse TV has to offer.  I've given up.  I'll just have to live with it...

Message 25 of 50 (5,574 Views)
Tutor

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?


SomeJoe7777 wrote:

mdbyst wrote:

The quality of your uverse service has everything to do with distance. Once the Uverse signal is transfered from fiber to twisted pair to the prem the distance is allocated for to provide you with an appropriate speed profile. The distance also will factor in how many hd streams you recieve, be it 2, 3, or 4.  There will be more packet loss over 3,000 feet than 500' given both lines are of the same quality performance. 


 

Again, NO, the quality of the signal has absolutely nothing to do with distance.  The person at 500' ends up receiving the EXACT same IPTV stream as the person at 3000' (barring any hardware problems with the equipment or the lines).

 

This is not an analog cable delivery system where the analog signal degrades while it propagates down the cable.  This is an IP network.  IP networks, by design, deliver packets to the receiver with no packet corruption, and ideally, no loss.

 

The system works just like on an Ethernet network: the person plugged into the switch with a 15' cable has no difference in the packets he receives from the person on a 300' cable run.

 

Any actual bits that are received in error by the VDSL modem are corrected due to the forward error correction algorithm in the modem.  All components in the routers and modems are optimized and buffered as well, preventing packet loss.

 

Please stop posting your estimation/guess of how the system works.  There are many things that you're obviously not familiar with, and your posting of incorrect information is not helpful.

 


I am not guessing and I could make the same assumption regarding your opinions. Im just stating facts trying to help out other viewers not trying to argue with someone who apparantly likes to argue to feel more important about himself.

The person at 500' is on a 32mg profile and the further your distance between the vrad and prem the lower your max attainable rate gets. As the max attainable rate on your line drops the higher the capacites get on your line which effect downstream and upstream bitrates.  Hence as I mentioned before the limiting hd streams as your distance is increased.  

 

Yes these ip based designs were implented to prevent packet loss but distance WILL effect it. Verizon Fios is an all fiber system however Uverse isnt and distance limits the availability of Uverse so you shouldnt post your estimation/guess of how the system works. 

 

Again the quality of the lines are more important than their distance, and that goes the same for the in home networking quality as well.

 

 

Message 26 of 50 (5,560 Views)
Tutor

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?


DRN94 wrote:

Meh.  I don't think it's worth going through all that and spending money on a LAN switch.  Apparently I'm getting the best U-Verse TV has to offer.  I've given up.  I'll just have to live with it...




 

Unfortunately you may have to deal with it but it may be possible to reach a resolution.

First of all, I have to rely on the fact that the tech did give you honest feedback regarding your green status.

But you can look over a few things first. Start with your Residential Gateway (RG) i.e.. modem.

The new model is the 3801 and is recommended for customers over 2200' in loop length from the vrad.  This would have shown up on the techs tests and if necessary would have been replaced. Though the 3800 silver and black rg's are fine, if this is the type of rg you have and are experiencing issues I would have it swapped for the newer version.

Secondly, if you look at the back of your rg, are there any wires connected to the green rj-11 jack? It's best if the rg is fed with twisted pair to the green vdsl rj-11 jack. After that feeding the set-top boxes (stb's) comes to personal preference mostly in regards to using CATV or coax.

Do you notice poor hd quality on all your hd tvs'? Are they just not as crisp as you would expect?

What is your brand TV or model number?

Message 27 of 50 (5,558 Views)
Expert
Solution
Accepted by oufanindallas (Master)
‎09-30-2015 1:39 AM

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?


mdbyst wrote:

 

I am not guessing and I could make the same assumption regarding your opinions. Im just stating facts trying to help out other viewers not trying to argue with someone who apparantly likes to argue to feel more important about himself.

The person at 500' is on a 32mg profile and the further your distance between the vrad and prem the lower your max attainable rate gets. As the max attainable rate on your line drops the higher the capacites get on your line which effect downstream and upstream bitrates.  Hence as I mentioned before the limiting hd streams as your distance is increased.  

 

Yes these ip based designs were implented to prevent packet loss but distance WILL effect it. Verizon Fios is an all fiber system however Uverse isnt and distance limits the availability of Uverse so you shouldnt post your estimation/guess of how the system works. 

 

Again the quality of the lines are more important than their distance, and that goes the same for the in home networking quality as well.


 

Yes, you are guessing.  Because you don't know how the system works, while I do.  You have 5 posts and registered 2 days ago, and 3 of your posts have posted incorrect information.

 

The root of your problem is that you are confusing line rates with video rates, which have nothing to do with each other.

 

The LINE rate varies with distance.  This affects the maximum total data (IPTV + VOIP + Internet) that can be transferred to the home.  Closer to the VRAD, the line rate is 32/5.  At medium and most far distances, the line rate is 25/2.  A few people from the old days have a 19/2 line rate.  And Internet-only customers have a 13/1 rate.  The line rate also affects how many different HD and SD channels you can tune simultaneously in your house.

 

The VIDEO bitrate does NOT vary with distance.  It is a constant 5.7 Mbps for every HD channel for everyone, regardless of distance (2 Mbps for every SD channel for everyone, regardless of distance).  This is the only rate we've been talking about in this thread, since the original poster's problems have to do with HD quality, in that he believes it's overcompressed.  The compression does NOT increase with distance.  There is only ONE video encoder at the head end per channel, and it outputs a fixed bandwidth stream that goes to everyone.

 

Since the compression does not increase with distance, it is physically impossible for the distance to affect the HD quality.  5.7Mbps is 5.7Mbps, no matter how long a wire it travelled down.  And again, there is no packet loss in a properly working U-Verse system.  In fact, the multicast UDP nature of U-Verse's video delivery REQUIRES an error-free network for proper function.

 

I do not like to argue.  I like to put out correct information.  You, on the other hand, seem insistent on continuing to claim things that aren't true, and like to generalize your basic knowledge of the system to advanced topics to which you're unfamiliar.  If you want to continue making a fool of yourself, by all means continue posting so that I may correct you some more.

 

Message 28 of 50 (5,512 Views)
Explorer

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?

So there is nothing I can do to get a higher bitrate?  I can't make a special request or something?


Message 29 of 50 (5,489 Views)
Expert

Re: HD Compression Here To Stay?

There is no way to get a higher video bitrate. That is fixed for everyone, and has been selected by AT&T to give the maximum number of people access to 4 simultaneous HD streams.

If AT&T eventually increases the line rate for the majority of its subscribers through technology upgrades, then there's a chance that they might be able to increase the video bitrate and still maintain the stream count, but this would be far in the future.
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