Line Stats Analysis Results

Expert

Line Stats Analysis Results

This thread will contain the results of the analysis of everyone's line stats that have been posted in the Data/Stats Collection Thread.

 

My initial analysis is not focused so much on distance from the VRAD.  The reason for this is that not too many people have distances that have been told to them by a tech using their specialized meters.  Furthermore, different line conditions can cause inaccuracy in their measured distances.

 

As it turns out, distance from the VRAD isn't the most important thing regarding the type and quality of service that you get anyway.  Instead, the wiring gauge, presence/absence of bridge taps, and the noise margin (signal-to-noise ratio) of the line are much more important.

 

To this end, the data that has been posted in the Data/Stats Collection Thread led to a rock-solid and extremely useful correlation that can be used to immediately judge the quality of your line and the service you can receive.  That correlation is the Downstream Noise Margin and the Max Line Rate.

 

Using only these two parameters, you can tell if A) Your line is working properly (i.e.. no bridge taps), B) What gauge wire is running from the VRAD to your NID, and C) What line profile you should be able to get.

 

Please note that I arrived at the wire gauge conclusions here because there are two distinct groupings of data points.  I am assuming the difference between them is due to wire gauge, because A) It is known that different neighborhoods around the country use two different wire gauges, 22 gauge, and 24 gauge, B) Thinner wire (24 gauge) would have higher attenuation in the high frequencies, which would reduce the max line rate for a given signal-to-noise ratio, which is exactly what the graph shows.  It is possible that the two groupings of data are due to a different cause, but until I either gather more data or have references to other possible conclusions, I'm going to assume the difference is due to wire gauge even though I cannot currently prove that with certainty.

 

There is a 3rd grouping of data that shows some people with a drastically reduced max line rate.  I'm fairly certain these people have a bridge tap on their line that is reducing the max line rate.  If their line was conditioned by I&R to remove the bridge tap, their max line rate would jump up into one of the other two groupings.  I have witnessed this first-hand, as my initial installation was on a line that had a bridge tap.  When the bridge tap was removed, the max line rate shot up by over 15000 Kbps.  I unfortunately cannot compare the numbers that I had at that point to the numbers I have now because those older numbers were using the VDSL1 protocol and at least 2 revisions earlier of the RG firmware.  Those values cannot be reliably compared to today's values obtained with the VDSL2 protocol and the current RG firmware revision (5.29.135.47).

 

Here's the first fully analyzed chart:

 

 

 

 

 

You can plainly see how well the data groups are formed here.  There are two distinct lines of people with properly working service, and a 3rd line of people with service that is probably not running right.  In addition, you can see the very rare people who are so close to the VRAD that they are currently being capped to a maximum line rate of 64000 Kbps.

 

For those of you who have some background in statistics, the linear correlation coefficients (R^2) for each of the 3 trend lines on the chart was > 0.98.  (This means that the computed lines fit the actual data very nicely).

 

The allowable line profile areas were computed by assuming that a line capacity of 80% is required for properly working service.  Line capacity = downstream profile rate / max line rate.  For example, for a properly working 32/5 profile, the downstream profile rate is 32200 Kbps.  FOr a line capacity of 80%, that means that Max Line Rate = Downstream Profile Rate / 80% = 32200 / .8 =  40250 Kbps, which I rounded to 40000.  The other rates separating the profiles were computed similarly.  The exception is the border for No Service, where I upped the allowed line capacity to 85% to allow just a little less max line rate.

 

The people whom I believe have a bridge tap on their line are very interesting.  The bridge tap reduces the max line rate that the line could theoretically carry by nearly 30%.  In the particular case of the person with an 18.5 dBm noise margin and 29000 Kbps max rate, having the line conditioned could conceivably get him a max line rate of 41000 Kbps, which would boost his allowable profile from 19/2 to 32/5 !  He could conceivable go from 1HD/3SD to 3HD/1SD just by having the bridge tap removed.

 

The person with the 10.0 dBm noise margin and a 19200 Kbps max rate is certainly experiencing poor service.  The line capacity in his case is at 100%, with no margin for errors.

 

 

In short, this chart can tell you at a glance whether your service is operating in agreement with everyone else's service.  It can immediately identify what profile you should be on or be able to get.  It can tell you if your line needs conditioning to have a bridge tap removed.  Based on my assumptions, it can also tell you your wire gauge, although that parameter is questionable.

 

When people post their line stats, this chart can be very useful in quickly determining if they are experiencing line problems or if their service is in agreement with normally working service.

 

Message 1 of 283
ACE - Expert

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

craftnkc, Contact David and his tier 2 team here:
http://www.uverseusers.com/index.php?option=com_openwiki&Itemid=36&id=david

Provide all info required and it might take a short bit of time before they contact you. Give a good
# and time to call. They will solve your problems, good luck. :smileywink:

 

Chris


Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition
YRMV IMHO Simply a U-verse user, nothing more
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 106 of 283
Explorer

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

Hi Joe, 

 

Here are my stats

 

DSL   Down   Up Current Rate:   25208 kbs   2040 kbs Max Rate:   28981 kbs   Not Available Current Connection:   Current Noise Margin:   12.0 dB   Not Available   Current Attenuation:   24.0 dB   Not Available   Current Output Power:   12.5 dBm   6.6 dBm   IP   Bytes   Packets   Drops   Errors   % Transmit:   1269767926   7105988   0   0   0 Receive:   276287090944   203868210   61   1   0

 

 

and http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/tools/db-link.php?link=1574

 

 

Based on your chart I think my profile barely fits the 25/2 profile as I am current receiving 2HD without any problem as far as i can tell. I want to ask for the 32/5 profile if its possible...  I suspect I have a bridge tap ( i have no clue what this means) on my line or some other issue that is impacting my max line rate and downstream noise margin and therefore my profile, I'm just unsure on how to accurately diagnose my particular dilemma so i can get to the right folks to look into it .

 

thank you for all your effort on this its quite impressive.  I've been with Uverse for about 10 months and just recently found this forum.  

 

as Martha Stewart would say... "it's a good thing" 

 

thank you,

   

Message 107 of 283
Contributor

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

No problems so far. Brand new shielded cat5 in home. Interested in 32mbps profile. Please take a look, THANKS.

 

http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/tools/db-link.php?link=1585

 

 

 

Message 108 of 283
ACE - Expert

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results


djdcz wrote:

No problems so far. Brand new shielded cat5 in home. Interested in 32mbps profile. Please take a look, THANKS.

 

http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/tools/db-link.php?link=1585

 

 

 


Your max sync is 35M, no way for a 35/2 profile to have the required overhead, your chart has a bell

curve, but not a true sine wave denoting a bridge tap that could give a higher max sync if removed. :smileywink:

 

Chris


Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition
YRMV IMHO Simply a U-verse user, nothing more
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 109 of 283
Contributor

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

THANKS for the info Chris! 

 

I wonder what could be done, by AT&T, to improve my signal. 

Message Edited by djdcz on 02-10-2010 06:58 PM
Message 110 of 283
Tutor

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

My data shows some interesting characteristics that I have not seen in previous examples. I am not having problems but I find it odd I have no bit load above 1530. I have 2 questions, Please confirm 32/5 capability and let me know if the absence above 1530 is due to a specific problem and what I can do to fix it.

 

Thanks in advance for all your help!

 

original-1.jpg

 

Message Edited by TreyW on 02-10-2010 09:12 PM
Message 111 of 283
Tutor

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

SomeJoe777

 

The graphic was shrunk so small by TreyW, you can no longer read the link to the data. That link is http://adslm.dohrenburg.net/tools/db-link.php?link=1603

 

Thanks for your help

Message 112 of 283
ACE - Expert

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results


djdcz wrote:

THANKS for the info Chris! 

 

I wonder what could be done, by AT&T, to improve my signal. 

Message Edited by djdcz on 02-10-2010 06:58 PM

Probably not until if/when pair bonding ever shows up to be able to give you a higher max sync.  Since

ATT did not implement VDSL2 in the regular theoretical way that would have risen everyone's max sync a

good amount and increase reach, you'll have to wait for that. :smileymad:

 

Chris


Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition
YRMV IMHO Simply a U-verse user, nothing more
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 113 of 283
ACE - Expert

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

14speed, your max sync was 45M and noise margin 19db, you fall in the 32/5 portion of SomeJoe's

latest chart.  Can't do anything about last tone 1530 as it's directly related to distance from the VRAD.

In my case 510' from the VRAD, my last tone is 1913, generally the closer you are, the higher tones

you can reach. :smileywink:

 

Chris


Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition
YRMV IMHO Simply a U-verse user, nothing more
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 114 of 283
Scholar

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results


mibrnsurg wrote:
Since ATT did not implement VDSL2 in the regular theoretical way that would have risen everyone's max sync a

good amount and increase reach, you'll have to wait for that. :smileymad:

 

Chris


Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition
YRMV IMHO Simply a U-verse user, nothing more

I'm guessing that AT&T decided to take the safer approach and get everyone going on VDSL2 first, with future plans to introduce longer reach.  At least that's what I'm hoping for since I'm on the 1HD profile and would love to have 2HD streams.

 

- Steve

Message 115 of 283
ACE - Expert

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

Not from the chatter from people in the know, seems ATT bought 'cheap' cards for the VRADs that

do not have all the bells and whistles for VDSL2 and we may stuck for the near term.  Too bad as

this implementation of VDSL2 has helped some w/quieter signals, has forced some fringe 2HD

users back to 1HD as their max sync rates went down slightly as did all users. :smileymad:

 

Chris


Please NO SD stretch-o-vision or 480 SD HD Channels
1-800-983-2811 to avoid Mr. Voice Recognition
YRMV IMHO Simply a U-verse user, nothing more
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 116 of 283
Tutor

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

All, 

Thanks for the feedback, makes since that the higher freq's would be less viable as the distance increases. Any rumors on when the 32/5 will be rolled out in So. Cal? I ask because I am considering increasing my internet speed from 6/1 to 10/2 and adding a second VOIP line. I'm not sure if those additions will impact my ability to get 3HD/1SD.

Message Edited by 14speed on 02-11-2010 11:40 AM
Message 117 of 283
Mentor

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

Hi All,

I just had a tech out to fix a phone line problem.

While he was here I asked about 3HD/1SD and he said alot of people already have it so he said he would check to see if I could too.

Well he came back and told me that I am  2175'  from the VRAD and that att is only allowing the new profile up to 2000 feet away right now.

Bummer my line is PERFECT! 

Message 118 of 283
Expert

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results


bluebird wrote:

 

Hi All,

I just had a tech out to fix a phone line problem.

While he was here I asked about 3HD/1SD and he said alot of people already have it so he said he would check to see if I could too.

Well he came back and told me that I am  2175'  from the VRAD and that att is only allowing the new profile up to 2000 feet away right now.

Bummer my line is PERFECT! 


What is your max down bandwidth?

Message 119 of 283
Mentor

Re: Line Stats Analysis Results

43758
Message 120 of 283
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