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Posted Sep 24, 2013
8:28:08 AM
What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

I am on the profile 12/1.5, I am 3,732 ft from the CO. I was wondering at this distance what speeds can a line support ?

I am on the profile 12/1.5, I am 3,732 ft from the CO. I was wondering at this distance what speeds can a line support ?

What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Sep 24, 2013 10:17:35 AM
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I'm curious to know how you know that exact distance from the CO?  That's the kind of thing a nerd like me would love to know in my case.  That statistic should actually be referring to the length of the line from the CO to your NID, not the physical distance between those two.

I'm curious to know how you know that exact distance from the CO?  That's the kind of thing a nerd like me would love to know in my case.  That statistic should actually be referring to the length of the line from the CO to your NID, not the physical distance between those two.

*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Sep 24, 2013 10:55:08 AM
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I actually called technical support and asked what my distance from the CO to my NID was and they said the approximate distance was 3,732, this was after they removed a bridge tap that was adding 2,226 feet to my line, yesterday before the bridge tap was removed my line was actually 6,000 ft from the CO, so the bridge tap actually made a great improvement.. They also said some customers in my area were farther than that, some are at10,000 ft but still get U-Verse Internet. The other problem I had called in about was FEC Errors on my line which they said was caused by interference, so they provided me a battery backup for my modem which is a Motorola NVG510 and since then I have had excellent line states. They said that the battery backup conditions the line and eliminates the errors. They also said that anyone with the Motorola NVG510 is suppose to get a battery backup usually...

I actually called technical support and asked what my distance from the CO to my NID was and they said the approximate distance was 3,732, this was after they removed a bridge tap that was adding 2,226 feet to my line, yesterday before the bridge tap was removed my line was actually 6,000 ft from the CO, so the bridge tap actually made a great improvement.. They also said some customers in my area were farther than that, some are at10,000 ft but still get U-Verse Internet. The other problem I had called in about was FEC Errors on my line which they said was caused by interference, so they provided me a battery backup for my modem which is a Motorola NVG510 and since then I have had excellent line states. They said that the battery backup conditions the line and eliminates the errors. They also said that anyone with the Motorola NVG510 is suppose to get a battery backup usually...

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Sep 29, 2013 7:23:42 PM
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One way I know how far my CO is from my house is using a web site that shows where the COs are: http://www.marigoldtech.com/lists/co.php If you type into the NPA-NXX your area code for NPA, a dash, and your prefix for NXX you will see your Central Office name. It shows a map of your area and where your CO is located but you can also copy the latitude and longitude and then paste that into Google Earth to get a better more accurate location. You don't have to have the words Latitude or Longitude just the numbers a space and the sign and numbers. In my case, my CO is under a man hole cover about 50 feet further down the street. They are often placed at those left hand turn lanes. The man hole cover would be marked as telephone and not sewer or water. You can use the Google Earth ruler to measure how far your CO is... taking into consideration that it most likely will not be a direct path and you have to, most likely, just follow the streets to that location...ie: corners, etc. I followed my telephone line to the telephone/cable poles all the way to my DSLAM on the sidewalk where I found metal telephone cabinet that was in very bad shape...the back was separated off the cabinet by about an inch as if someone used a crow bar. There is also another, newer one right across the street that I am hoping is the actual DSLAM for my line. For example: There is an Arby's in Seattle which has a telephone number 206-365-xxxx. If I enter 206-365 into the NPA-NXX box it gives me the CO name of STTLWA04. When I click on that, it shows me Central Office Information for STTLWA04 with Latitude and Longitude and a map. Have fun!
One way I know how far my CO is from my house is using a web site that shows where the COs are: http://www.marigoldtech.com/lists/co.php If you type into the NPA-NXX your area code for NPA, a dash, and your prefix for NXX you will see your Central Office name. It shows a map of your area and where your CO is located but you can also copy the latitude and longitude and then paste that into Google Earth to get a better more accurate location. You don't have to have the words Latitude or Longitude just the numbers a space and the sign and numbers. In my case, my CO is under a man hole cover about 50 feet further down the street. They are often placed at those left hand turn lanes. The man hole cover would be marked as telephone and not sewer or water. You can use the Google Earth ruler to measure how far your CO is... taking into consideration that it most likely will not be a direct path and you have to, most likely, just follow the streets to that location...ie: corners, etc. I followed my telephone line to the telephone/cable poles all the way to my DSLAM on the sidewalk where I found metal telephone cabinet that was in very bad shape...the back was separated off the cabinet by about an inch as if someone used a crow bar. There is also another, newer one right across the street that I am hoping is the actual DSLAM for my line. For example: There is an Arby's in Seattle which has a telephone number 206-365-xxxx. If I enter 206-365 into the NPA-NXX box it gives me the CO name of STTLWA04. When I click on that, it shows me Central Office Information for STTLWA04 with Latitude and Longitude and a map. Have fun!

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Sep 30, 2013 8:10:51 AM
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NoFSTV-LinkTV-RT-NoDeal wrote:
One way I know how far my CO is from my house is using a web site that shows where the COs are: http://www.marigoldtech.com/lists/co.php If you type into the NPA-NXX your area code for NPA, a dash, and your prefix for NXX you will see your Central Office name. It shows a map of your area and where your CO is located but you can also copy the latitude and longitude and then paste that into Google Earth to get a better more accurate location. You don't have to have the words Latitude or Longitude just the numbers a space and the sign and numbers. In my case, my CO is under a man hole cover about 50 feet further down the street. They are often placed at those left hand turn lanes. The man hole cover would be marked as telephone and not sewer or water. You can use the Google Earth ruler to measure how far your CO is... taking into consideration that it most likely will not be a direct path and you have to, most likely, just follow the streets to that location...ie: corners, etc. I followed my telephone line to the telephone/cable poles all the way to my DSLAM on the sidewalk where I found metal telephone cabinet that was in very bad shape...the back was separated off the cabinet by about an inch as if someone used a crow bar. There is also another, newer one right across the street that I am hoping is the actual DSLAM for my line. For example: There is an Arby's in Seattle which has a telephone number 206-365-xxxx. If I enter 206-365 into the NPA-NXX box it gives me the CO name of STTLWA04. When I click on that, it shows me Central Office Information for STTLWA04 with Latitude and Longitude and a map. Have fun!

Just for clarification, the CO (Central Office) is a large building, with room for the equipment, batteries and other power systems, etc. ... large building.

 

If anything, what you have under the street is a splice case of some sort that connects to a Remote Terminal (RT). The RT is a way to extend the reach from the CO to the more distant neighborhoods. RTs connect back to the CO over (usually) fiber, then active equipment (like a DSLAM - the thing that feeds your xDSL modem) so the actual "wire distance" starts from the RT, not the CO.

 

Most likely it would be a splice under the street, to a crossbox or RT, then to a crossbox in your neighborhood and from there to the drop at your home.

 


NoFSTV-LinkTV-RT-NoDeal wrote:
One way I know how far my CO is from my house is using a web site that shows where the COs are: http://www.marigoldtech.com/lists/co.php If you type into the NPA-NXX your area code for NPA, a dash, and your prefix for NXX you will see your Central Office name. It shows a map of your area and where your CO is located but you can also copy the latitude and longitude and then paste that into Google Earth to get a better more accurate location. You don't have to have the words Latitude or Longitude just the numbers a space and the sign and numbers. In my case, my CO is under a man hole cover about 50 feet further down the street. They are often placed at those left hand turn lanes. The man hole cover would be marked as telephone and not sewer or water. You can use the Google Earth ruler to measure how far your CO is... taking into consideration that it most likely will not be a direct path and you have to, most likely, just follow the streets to that location...ie: corners, etc. I followed my telephone line to the telephone/cable poles all the way to my DSLAM on the sidewalk where I found metal telephone cabinet that was in very bad shape...the back was separated off the cabinet by about an inch as if someone used a crow bar. There is also another, newer one right across the street that I am hoping is the actual DSLAM for my line. For example: There is an Arby's in Seattle which has a telephone number 206-365-xxxx. If I enter 206-365 into the NPA-NXX box it gives me the CO name of STTLWA04. When I click on that, it shows me Central Office Information for STTLWA04 with Latitude and Longitude and a map. Have fun!

Just for clarification, the CO (Central Office) is a large building, with room for the equipment, batteries and other power systems, etc. ... large building.

 

If anything, what you have under the street is a splice case of some sort that connects to a Remote Terminal (RT). The RT is a way to extend the reach from the CO to the more distant neighborhoods. RTs connect back to the CO over (usually) fiber, then active equipment (like a DSLAM - the thing that feeds your xDSL modem) so the actual "wire distance" starts from the RT, not the CO.

 

Most likely it would be a splice under the street, to a crossbox or RT, then to a crossbox in your neighborhood and from there to the drop at your home.

 

Sent from my phone.
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Oct 4, 2013 6:11:39 PM
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ScottMac said: "Just for clarification, the CO (Central Office) is a large building, with room for the equipment, batteries and other power systems, etc. ... large building." That's what I once thought too...that Central Offices were located in large buildings...but I know exactly where my CO is as per the Marigold web site which gives the coordinates of my CO and Google Earth shows where it is...Google Earth street view lets me look right down on the man hole cover in the street at that location. There are no big buildings at that location...only the AT&T man hole cover. In fact, I was just visited by two reps from AT&T who tried to sell me UVerse..the top of the form had my Central Office ID letters/number on it which matches the one I found at Marigold web site. If you go to the Marigold web site you will see that they identify the Central Office based on the area code and prefix and the map and the Latitude/Longitude that it gives also points right to that man hole cover in the street. In fact, I've run across some web sites that have all kinds of interesting information about Central Offices that are located under the street..and NOT in big buildings.
ScottMac said: "Just for clarification, the CO (Central Office) is a large building, with room for the equipment, batteries and other power systems, etc. ... large building." That's what I once thought too...that Central Offices were located in large buildings...but I know exactly where my CO is as per the Marigold web site which gives the coordinates of my CO and Google Earth shows where it is...Google Earth street view lets me look right down on the man hole cover in the street at that location. There are no big buildings at that location...only the AT&T man hole cover. In fact, I was just visited by two reps from AT&T who tried to sell me UVerse..the top of the form had my Central Office ID letters/number on it which matches the one I found at Marigold web site. If you go to the Marigold web site you will see that they identify the Central Office based on the area code and prefix and the map and the Latitude/Longitude that it gives also points right to that man hole cover in the street. In fact, I've run across some web sites that have all kinds of interesting information about Central Offices that are located under the street..and NOT in big buildings.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Oct 4, 2013 6:20:36 PM
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"Central offices are now built underground to connect to the underground cables and to contain the electromagnetic radiation thrown off by the plant and to protect the equipment from weather and natural disasters. These facilities are built of concrete, rebar and steel. They are underground bunkers with redundant power, their own environmental systems and massive cable conduit pipes to bring in all the cabling from the entire area. These are all components in the new central offices and telephone operations centers." http://www.inetdaemon.com/tutorials/telecom/pstn/central_office/
"Central offices are now built underground to connect to the underground cables and to contain the electromagnetic radiation thrown off by the plant and to protect the equipment from weather and natural disasters. These facilities are built of concrete, rebar and steel. They are underground bunkers with redundant power, their own environmental systems and massive cable conduit pipes to bring in all the cabling from the entire area. These are all components in the new central offices and telephone operations centers." http://www.inetdaemon.com/tutorials/telecom/pstn/central_office/

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Oct 7, 2013 7:25:46 AM
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I believe they are talking about a "Controlled Environment Vault" (CEV). A CEV is a sealed, air conditioned, powered structure (usually) underground. It has RT equipment, some have U-Verse equipment, batteries, rectifiers ... no Telco switching (ala 5ess switches).

 

Central Offices are in buildings, as much for physical security as anything else.

 

I believe they are talking about a "Controlled Environment Vault" (CEV). A CEV is a sealed, air conditioned, powered structure (usually) underground. It has RT equipment, some have U-Verse equipment, batteries, rectifiers ... no Telco switching (ala 5ess switches).

 

Central Offices are in buildings, as much for physical security as anything else.

 

Sent from my phone.
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Oct 10, 2013 2:12:54 PM
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"Central offices are now built underground to connect to the underground cables and to contain the electromagnetic radiation thrown off by the plant and to protect the equipment from weather and natural disasters. These facilities are built of concrete, rebar and steel. They are underground bunkers with redundant power, their own environmental systems and massive cable conduit pipes to bring in all the cabling from the entire area. These are all components in the new central offices and telephone operations centers." http://www.inetdaemon.com/tutorials/telecom/pstn/central_office/ It looks pretty clear to me that it is very specifically saying that "Central Offices are now build underground". There are lots of references to "Central Offices being built underground and not located in a "big building". Why are you fighting this concept? In fact, I have actually gone to that man hole cover in the street. It says "Bell Systems" on it. In fact there are a cluster of these located in my very populous area...all under man hole covers...they are all identified as "Central Offices" as per the Marigold web site. Now there may be many other man hole covers that are identified as Bell Systems as well but these specific ones contain "Central Offices".
"Central offices are now built underground to connect to the underground cables and to contain the electromagnetic radiation thrown off by the plant and to protect the equipment from weather and natural disasters. These facilities are built of concrete, rebar and steel. They are underground bunkers with redundant power, their own environmental systems and massive cable conduit pipes to bring in all the cabling from the entire area. These are all components in the new central offices and telephone operations centers." http://www.inetdaemon.com/tutorials/telecom/pstn/central_office/ It looks pretty clear to me that it is very specifically saying that "Central Offices are now build underground". There are lots of references to "Central Offices being built underground and not located in a "big building". Why are you fighting this concept? In fact, I have actually gone to that man hole cover in the street. It says "Bell Systems" on it. In fact there are a cluster of these located in my very populous area...all under man hole covers...they are all identified as "Central Offices" as per the Marigold web site. Now there may be many other man hole covers that are identified as Bell Systems as well but these specific ones contain "Central Offices".

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Oct 10, 2013 4:41:23 PM
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AT&T Central Offices are mostly underground. However, UVerse wants to keep all their equipment above ground and there has been controversy...like in Orange County..back in about 2009...where they didn't want UVerse unless they put all their equipment below ground...in the Central Offices, even the RTs, with the rest of the Telco equipment. Orange County didn't want all those ugly Remote Terminal (RT) boxes, that get covered with graffiti , above ground either. Problem was that UVerse equipment, unlike the Telco equipment was more sensitive to extremes...temperature...moisture...etc and would have required the underground Controlled Environment Vaults (CEV), which are very expensive ($40,000-$60,000 each) , and much bigger than the above ground cabinets. The CEV installations would have been much more complicated to install due to sewer and water lines. The Telco Central Offices seem to work just fine underground, and they are there for a reason...partly to dampen electromagnetic noise from interfering with above ground communications, but UVerse would need to keep them above ground to keep costs down and to have more ready access for maintenance, etc. And, of course, increased costs eats into profits. To be competitive with the cable companies, UVerse had to cut costs anywhere they can. http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/08/18/att-explains-why-it-cant-build-tv-service-undergrou... http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/files/2009/07/undergrounding-facts.pdf
AT&T Central Offices are mostly underground. However, UVerse wants to keep all their equipment above ground and there has been controversy...like in Orange County..back in about 2009...where they didn't want UVerse unless they put all their equipment below ground...in the Central Offices, even the RTs, with the rest of the Telco equipment. Orange County didn't want all those ugly Remote Terminal (RT) boxes, that get covered with graffiti , above ground either. Problem was that UVerse equipment, unlike the Telco equipment was more sensitive to extremes...temperature...moisture...etc and would have required the underground Controlled Environment Vaults (CEV), which are very expensive ($40,000-$60,000 each) , and much bigger than the above ground cabinets. The CEV installations would have been much more complicated to install due to sewer and water lines. The Telco Central Offices seem to work just fine underground, and they are there for a reason...partly to dampen electromagnetic noise from interfering with above ground communications, but UVerse would need to keep them above ground to keep costs down and to have more ready access for maintenance, etc. And, of course, increased costs eats into profits. To be competitive with the cable companies, UVerse had to cut costs anywhere they can. http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/08/18/att-explains-why-it-cant-build-tv-service-underground/17521/ http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/files/2009/07/undergrounding-facts.pdf

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Oct 10, 2013 7:40:27 PM
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NoFSTV-LinkTV-RT-NoDeal wrote:
"Central offices are now built underground to connect to the underground cables and to contain the electromagnetic radiation thrown off by the plant and to protect the equipment from weather and natural disasters. These facilities are built of concrete, rebar and steel. They are underground bunkers with redundant power, their own environmental systems and massive cable conduit pipes to bring in all the cabling from the entire area. These are all components in the new central offices and telephone operations centers." http://www.inetdaemon.com/tutorials/telecom/pstn/central_office/ It looks pretty clear to me that it is very specifically saying that "Central Offices are now build underground". There are lots of references to "Central Offices being built underground and not located in a "big building". Why are you fighting this concept? In fact, I have actually gone to that man hole cover in the street. It says "Bell Systems" on it. In fact there are a cluster of these located in my very populous area...all under man hole covers...they are all identified as "Central Offices" as per the Marigold web site. Now there may be many other man hole covers that are identified as Bell Systems as well but these specific ones contain "Central Offices".

Central offices may be underground, as in the basement of a large building. But they are most definitely NOT under a manhole cover. The amount and size of switches and other equipment, plus power requirements, plus the sheer volume of cables coming into and out of the central office, plus the personel required to service and maintain all of this require a footprint much larger than what is available under the street. Not to mention security requirements - central offices are an integral part of the nation's communication network and require 24 hour security, something not possible under a manhole cover. 

 

And I wouldn't put too much faith in what the Marigold site tells you about the location of central offices. I looked up mine  (and I already know where mine is, I've been there).  Marigold placed it in the backyard of a private home about 4 blocks from it's actual location.


NoFSTV-LinkTV-RT-NoDeal wrote:
"Central offices are now built underground to connect to the underground cables and to contain the electromagnetic radiation thrown off by the plant and to protect the equipment from weather and natural disasters. These facilities are built of concrete, rebar and steel. They are underground bunkers with redundant power, their own environmental systems and massive cable conduit pipes to bring in all the cabling from the entire area. These are all components in the new central offices and telephone operations centers." http://www.inetdaemon.com/tutorials/telecom/pstn/central_office/ It looks pretty clear to me that it is very specifically saying that "Central Offices are now build underground". There are lots of references to "Central Offices being built underground and not located in a "big building". Why are you fighting this concept? In fact, I have actually gone to that man hole cover in the street. It says "Bell Systems" on it. In fact there are a cluster of these located in my very populous area...all under man hole covers...they are all identified as "Central Offices" as per the Marigold web site. Now there may be many other man hole covers that are identified as Bell Systems as well but these specific ones contain "Central Offices".

Central offices may be underground, as in the basement of a large building. But they are most definitely NOT under a manhole cover. The amount and size of switches and other equipment, plus power requirements, plus the sheer volume of cables coming into and out of the central office, plus the personel required to service and maintain all of this require a footprint much larger than what is available under the street. Not to mention security requirements - central offices are an integral part of the nation's communication network and require 24 hour security, something not possible under a manhole cover. 

 

And I wouldn't put too much faith in what the Marigold site tells you about the location of central offices. I looked up mine  (and I already know where mine is, I've been there).  Marigold placed it in the backyard of a private home about 4 blocks from it's actual location.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Oct 11, 2013 2:34:21 AM
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My understanding of what a Central Office is and that they are located underground (under streets with access through man hole covers) is not based entirely on the Marigold web site. As I have found many other references to "Central Offices" being located under the streets...one of which I have already quoted. But I also have found other references that talk about Central Offices being located in big buildings. I certainly wouldn't expect something like the Lucent 5ESS switches to be located under the streets..those are pretty big and I would imagine very sensitive to temperature and humidity. And I know that there are usually below ground areas (cable vaults) below the Central Office Buildings that contain all the ingoing and outgoing cables. There's a whole lot of terminology...abbreviations for all of the different equipment and locations and modes of technology that can be pretty confusing. I agree that the locations of what Marigold calls Central Offices are not exactly where they say they are...the one that my phone is assigned to is off about 50 or so feet further down the street when you use the latitude/longitude in Google Earth. there are certainly no big buildings anywhere near that site..just residential houses. I know where the Central Office Buildings are in my area and they are no where near any of these "man hole covers" in fact one is about 3 miles in the other direction in the city center and another one is further yet in the same direction..about 8 miles away. But whatever is under that man hole cover is identified as a Central Office by Marigold.com and is called a Switch by localcallingguide.com when I type in my NPA (area code) and my NXX (my prefix). So since that man hole cover is 3 miles in one direction and the nearest Central Office building is 3 miles in the opposite direction that would mean that it is really 6 miles away and the other one is 11 miles away as the copper local loop...or OSP (Outside Plant)...goes.
My understanding of what a Central Office is and that they are located underground (under streets with access through man hole covers) is not based entirely on the Marigold web site. As I have found many other references to "Central Offices" being located under the streets...one of which I have already quoted. But I also have found other references that talk about Central Offices being located in big buildings. I certainly wouldn't expect something like the Lucent 5ESS switches to be located under the streets..those are pretty big and I would imagine very sensitive to temperature and humidity. And I know that there are usually below ground areas (cable vaults) below the Central Office Buildings that contain all the ingoing and outgoing cables. There's a whole lot of terminology...abbreviations for all of the different equipment and locations and modes of technology that can be pretty confusing. I agree that the locations of what Marigold calls Central Offices are not exactly where they say they are...the one that my phone is assigned to is off about 50 or so feet further down the street when you use the latitude/longitude in Google Earth. there are certainly no big buildings anywhere near that site..just residential houses. I know where the Central Office Buildings are in my area and they are no where near any of these "man hole covers" in fact one is about 3 miles in the other direction in the city center and another one is further yet in the same direction..about 8 miles away. But whatever is under that man hole cover is identified as a Central Office by Marigold.com and is called a Switch by localcallingguide.com when I type in my NPA (area code) and my NXX (my prefix). So since that man hole cover is 3 miles in one direction and the nearest Central Office building is 3 miles in the opposite direction that would mean that it is really 6 miles away and the other one is 11 miles away as the copper local loop...or OSP (Outside Plant)...goes.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Oct 11, 2013 7:15:36 AM
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Edited by ScottMac on Oct 11, 2013 at 7:16:50 AM

NoFSTV-LinkTV-RT-NoDeal wrote:
AT&T Central Offices are mostly underground. However, UVerse wants to keep all their equipment above ground and there has been controversy...like in Orange County..back in about 2009...where they didn't want UVerse unless they put all their equipment below ground...in the Central Offices, even the RTs, with the rest of the Telco equipment. Orange County didn't want all those ugly Remote Terminal (RT) boxes, that get covered with graffiti , above ground either. Problem was that UVerse equipment, unlike the Telco equipment was more sensitive to extremes...temperature...moisture...etc and would have required the underground Controlled Environment Vaults (CEV), which are very expensive ($40,000-$60,000 each) , and much bigger than the above ground cabinets. The CEV installations would have been much more complicated to install due to sewer and water lines. The Telco Central Offices seem to work just fine underground, and they are there for a reason...partly to dampen electromagnetic noise from interfering with above ground communications, but UVerse would need to keep them above ground to keep costs down and to have more ready access for maintenance, etc. And, of course, increased costs eats into profits. To be competitive with the cable companies, UVerse had to cut costs anywhere they can. http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/08/18/att-explains-why-it-cant-build-tv-service-undergrou... http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/files/2009/07/undergrounding-facts.pdf

NO, they're not.

 

You have been horribly misled. Nearly everything you have posted is utterly untrue.

 


NoFSTV-LinkTV-RT-NoDeal wrote:
AT&T Central Offices are mostly underground. However, UVerse wants to keep all their equipment above ground and there has been controversy...like in Orange County..back in about 2009...where they didn't want UVerse unless they put all their equipment below ground...in the Central Offices, even the RTs, with the rest of the Telco equipment. Orange County didn't want all those ugly Remote Terminal (RT) boxes, that get covered with graffiti , above ground either. Problem was that UVerse equipment, unlike the Telco equipment was more sensitive to extremes...temperature...moisture...etc and would have required the underground Controlled Environment Vaults (CEV), which are very expensive ($40,000-$60,000 each) , and much bigger than the above ground cabinets. The CEV installations would have been much more complicated to install due to sewer and water lines. The Telco Central Offices seem to work just fine underground, and they are there for a reason...partly to dampen electromagnetic noise from interfering with above ground communications, but UVerse would need to keep them above ground to keep costs down and to have more ready access for maintenance, etc. And, of course, increased costs eats into profits. To be competitive with the cable companies, UVerse had to cut costs anywhere they can. http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/08/18/att-explains-why-it-cant-build-tv-service-underground/17521/ http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/files/2009/07/undergrounding-facts.pdf

NO, they're not.

 

You have been horribly misled. Nearly everything you have posted is utterly untrue.

 

Sent from my phone.
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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[quote=ScottMac]You have been horribly misled. Nearly everything you have posted is utterly untrue.[/quote] I will concede that there may be a misunderstanding as to what constitutes a "Central Office" and that it makes more sense to me that a "Central Office" is typically thought of as being located in big buildings. I'd certainly rather believe that, certainly makes more sense to me, despite that there are references in a number of writings I've found that say that "Central Offices" are located under the streets, with "man-hole" accesses. The myriad numbers of acronyms and names for just that metal box that sits on the sidewalk being just an example that have been created over the years by various telcos can be rather confusing. RT, SAI, SLC, DSLAM, VRAD, IPDSLAM (the later 3 referring to the actual equipment inside the metal box) and there are other acronyms that I can't remember just now all are used to refer to just that metal container sitting on the sidewalk..or, at least, what is inside them. So when it comes to using the term Central Office as referring to a big building or some bunker under the street, it seems rather picky; but, I sure want to understand just what the heck is under that man-hole cover...just what it is called....what is it's function. It must be some kind of major node or switch that services a part of that community. I know that...as an example: the NPA-NXX number (area code-prefix) of 480-204 for a phone in Phoenix, AZ says that PHNYAZUO is a "Central Office" (as per the Marigold.com info) and the Latitude/Longitude they give (33.443 -112.038) points, in Google Earth, to the middle of a road next to a Honeywell factory. Incidentally, the street view has also caught an airliner flying over a building to the south of Honeywell, the Arrow Electronics building. So, assuming that Marigold has that alphanumeric designation as representing a "Central Office" an error; then, just what is the correct name for what that alphanumeric designation refer to? Yes, one acronym could be CEV (but that doesn't describe it's function), it could maybe be called a switch, perhaps? Now, I know that the alphanumeric designation for my NPA-NXX number, which is not in Phoenix by the way, is not the same as the one that does designate the big-building "Central Office"; but, it has some corresponding characters that appear to tie the two designations together. I had measured, using Google Earth, the distance from my house to what I believed to be my RT (node) metal box on the side walk (mbotsw- my acronym). It is about 1300 feet away as measured from my NID to the aeral plant then down the block to the street, then down the pole underground...to the RT. But when I went to one provider web site to see if I would qualify for their services...it said I couldn't qualify because my RT was located about 4500 feet away which conflicts with what I thought was my RT at 1300 feet away. Guess I'm going to have to keep looking for some RT at about 4500 feet if I want to understand just where my RT really is. Or...that message could just have been bogus. I'm sorry for being such a pain-in-the xxx but I am just trying to learn and understand these things. I appreciate your time and effort in replying to my posts.
[quote=ScottMac]You have been horribly misled. Nearly everything you have posted is utterly untrue.[/quote] I will concede that there may be a misunderstanding as to what constitutes a "Central Office" and that it makes more sense to me that a "Central Office" is typically thought of as being located in big buildings. I'd certainly rather believe that, certainly makes more sense to me, despite that there are references in a number of writings I've found that say that "Central Offices" are located under the streets, with "man-hole" accesses. The myriad numbers of acronyms and names for just that metal box that sits on the sidewalk being just an example that have been created over the years by various telcos can be rather confusing. RT, SAI, SLC, DSLAM, VRAD, IPDSLAM (the later 3 referring to the actual equipment inside the metal box) and there are other acronyms that I can't remember just now all are used to refer to just that metal container sitting on the sidewalk..or, at least, what is inside them. So when it comes to using the term Central Office as referring to a big building or some bunker under the street, it seems rather picky; but, I sure want to understand just what the heck is under that man-hole cover...just what it is called....what is it's function. It must be some kind of major node or switch that services a part of that community. I know that...as an example: the NPA-NXX number (area code-prefix) of 480-204 for a phone in Phoenix, AZ says that PHNYAZUO is a "Central Office" (as per the Marigold.com info) and the Latitude/Longitude they give (33.443 -112.038) points, in Google Earth, to the middle of a road next to a Honeywell factory. Incidentally, the street view has also caught an airliner flying over a building to the south of Honeywell, the Arrow Electronics building. So, assuming that Marigold has that alphanumeric designation as representing a "Central Office" an error; then, just what is the correct name for what that alphanumeric designation refer to? Yes, one acronym could be CEV (but that doesn't describe it's function), it could maybe be called a switch, perhaps? Now, I know that the alphanumeric designation for my NPA-NXX number, which is not in Phoenix by the way, is not the same as the one that does designate the big-building "Central Office"; but, it has some corresponding characters that appear to tie the two designations together. I had measured, using Google Earth, the distance from my house to what I believed to be my RT (node) metal box on the side walk (mbotsw- my acronym). It is about 1300 feet away as measured from my NID to the aeral plant then down the block to the street, then down the pole underground...to the RT. But when I went to one provider web site to see if I would qualify for their services...it said I couldn't qualify because my RT was located about 4500 feet away which conflicts with what I thought was my RT at 1300 feet away. Guess I'm going to have to keep looking for some RT at about 4500 feet if I want to understand just where my RT really is. Or...that message could just have been bogus. I'm sorry for being such a pain-in-the xxx but I am just trying to learn and understand these things. I appreciate your time and effort in replying to my posts.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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As the Marigold web site definitions points out...the eight or eleven characters tied to a NPA-NXX (area code/local exchange) is called a CLLI (Common Language Location Identification) Code. The first four characters specify the city the equipment is located, the 5th and 6th characters is the state, and the 7th and 8th the location within the city. The first 8 characters identify the Central Office. And the last three, identify a piece of equipment at that Central Office...but I believe that those last three are more specifically tied to the geolocation of the equipment under the man-hole cover at, or near, the coordinates given. There are about 10 of them in my general area and surely there aren't 10 big building Central Offices here.
As the Marigold web site definitions points out...the eight or eleven characters tied to a NPA-NXX (area code/local exchange) is called a CLLI (Common Language Location Identification) Code. The first four characters specify the city the equipment is located, the 5th and 6th characters is the state, and the 7th and 8th the location within the city. The first 8 characters identify the Central Office. And the last three, identify a piece of equipment at that Central Office...but I believe that those last three are more specifically tied to the geolocation of the equipment under the man-hole cover at, or near, the coordinates given. There are about 10 of them in my general area and surely there aren't 10 big building Central Offices here.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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CLLIs are not necessarily tied to a specific NPA-NXX combination, and the presence of a CLLI does not always indicate a central office.  For example, MTSOs (mobile telephone switching offices) have CLLIs but are not COs.  Various pieces of network equipment will have CLLIs.  The central office that serves my workplace, ATLNGAPP covers 75 NPA-NXX combinations, but does NOT have 75 CLLIs. Each of the switches within that CO has its own CLLI starting with ATLNGAPP.

 

As for COs being under the manhole covers:  COs are filled with massive banks of computerized parts, giant battery arrays, and backup generators (think "must be dry and air conditioned". Manhole rooms flood quite often.  Subjecting COs to flooding and temperature/humidity extremes would destroy the equipment and cause environmental issues due to the batteries.

CLLIs are not necessarily tied to a specific NPA-NXX combination, and the presence of a CLLI does not always indicate a central office.  For example, MTSOs (mobile telephone switching offices) have CLLIs but are not COs.  Various pieces of network equipment will have CLLIs.  The central office that serves my workplace, ATLNGAPP covers 75 NPA-NXX combinations, but does NOT have 75 CLLIs. Each of the switches within that CO has its own CLLI starting with ATLNGAPP.

 

As for COs being under the manhole covers:  COs are filled with massive banks of computerized parts, giant battery arrays, and backup generators (think "must be dry and air conditioned". Manhole rooms flood quite often.  Subjecting COs to flooding and temperature/humidity extremes would destroy the equipment and cause environmental issues due to the batteries.

*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Edited by Taylarie on Oct 13, 2013 at 4:31:52 PM

Thank you ptkdude, that is very interesting....and convincing...I was already becoming convinced that COs were not located under man hole covers...what a ridiculous idea! I guess I'm going to have to stop reading all those subversive ideas at this web site... {Inappropriate content removed};-}

Thank you ptkdude, that is very interesting....and convincing...I was already becoming convinced that COs were not located under man hole covers...what a ridiculous idea! I guess I'm going to have to stop reading all those subversive ideas at this web site... {Inappropriate content removed};-}

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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inappropriate content removed? I guess a link that has only a bunch of old txt files...probably from decades ago...that describes how to break in to various Bell Systems man-hole covers, what is down there... and sidewalk cans is inappropriate. That is, of course, something that I would never do. I'm too old for that kind of stuff..and I'd rather spend the last few years of my life out of a different kind of "can"....besides I could never lift a man hole cover anyway. I'm just surprised that the gestapo has allowed subversive links like this to exist on the internet.
inappropriate content removed? I guess a link that has only a bunch of old txt files...probably from decades ago...that describes how to break in to various Bell Systems man-hole covers, what is down there... and sidewalk cans is inappropriate. That is, of course, something that I would never do. I'm too old for that kind of stuff..and I'd rather spend the last few years of my life out of a different kind of "can"....besides I could never lift a man hole cover anyway. I'm just surprised that the gestapo has allowed subversive links like this to exist on the internet.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Oct 14, 2013 7:53:50 AM
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This is a typical manhole. This one happens to be in a Chicago suburb, and had a grounding issue (which is why I was there).

 

This is not a CO, and there's no CO equipment that would survive this environment.

 

Your reference website is wrong, all of the sources you've offered are wrong. You apparently have no clue about this stuff, so I, for one, would appreciate it if you'd stop trolling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a typical manhole. This one happens to be in a Chicago suburb, and had a grounding issue (which is why I was there).

 

This is not a CO, and there's no CO equipment that would survive this environment.

 

Your reference website is wrong, all of the sources you've offered are wrong. You apparently have no clue about this stuff, so I, for one, would appreciate it if you'd stop trolling.

 

Sent from my phone.
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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ScottMac: " I, for one, would appreciate it if you'd stop trolling." So, what started my interest in trying to learn more about the Telco system was sparked by one Marketing Troll letter that basically inferred that I had better call their numbers to sign up with UVerse because they were about to make changes to the system that would leave me without a phone. I didn't ask for this to begin with. AT&T UVerse Marketers started it all. So, if you think I'm being a pest then..well..that's too daammmnnn bad.
ScottMac: " I, for one, would appreciate it if you'd stop trolling." So, what started my interest in trying to learn more about the Telco system was sparked by one Marketing Troll letter that basically inferred that I had better call their numbers to sign up with UVerse because they were about to make changes to the system that would leave me without a phone. I didn't ask for this to begin with. AT&T UVerse Marketers started it all. So, if you think I'm being a pest then..well..that's too daammmnnn bad.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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If it walks like a duck, squawks like a duck then it is probably a duck. If it acts like a monopoly then it most likely is a monopoly. Yes, at one time they broke up the monopolies, in 1996, but then, since deregulation, they grew back into a monopoly again. We are given no choice in keeping the traditional land line form of communications...unless we agree to sign up with UVerse and all of their inherent problems that so many customers have suffered from. Or, at least, they want you to believe that POTS will cease to exist whenever they upgrade to FO. Our only other recourse is to go cable or wireless. The problem is, I believe, that AT&T UVerse has not been very upfront with us...it's all marketing hype meant to get us to "don't read the fine print..just sign on the dotted line". The only reason, I believe, that there is a blog like this one is because there have been many, many complaints by customers and the big wigs have sent their lowly ranking toadies to try to make things appear all better. PR bandaids. All part of their marketing smoke and mirrors.
If it walks like a duck, squawks like a duck then it is probably a duck. If it acts like a monopoly then it most likely is a monopoly. Yes, at one time they broke up the monopolies, in 1996, but then, since deregulation, they grew back into a monopoly again. We are given no choice in keeping the traditional land line form of communications...unless we agree to sign up with UVerse and all of their inherent problems that so many customers have suffered from. Or, at least, they want you to believe that POTS will cease to exist whenever they upgrade to FO. Our only other recourse is to go cable or wireless. The problem is, I believe, that AT&T UVerse has not been very upfront with us...it's all marketing hype meant to get us to "don't read the fine print..just sign on the dotted line". The only reason, I believe, that there is a blog like this one is because there have been many, many complaints by customers and the big wigs have sent their lowly ranking toadies to try to make things appear all better. PR bandaids. All part of their marketing smoke and mirrors.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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Thanks for the photos, ScottMac.  It's interesting to see what it actually looks like under there! 

Thanks for the photos, ScottMac.  It's interesting to see what it actually looks like under there! 

*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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NoFSTV-LinkTV-RT-NoDeal wrote:
If it walks like a duck, squawks like a duck then it is probably a duck. If it acts like a monopoly then it most likely is a monopoly. Yes, at one time they broke up the monopolies, in 1996, but then, since deregulation, they grew back into a monopoly again. We are given no choice in keeping the traditional land line form of communications...unless we agree to sign up with UVerse and all of their inherent problems that so many customers have suffered from. Or, at least, they want you to believe that POTS will cease to exist whenever they upgrade to FO. Our only other recourse is to go cable or wireless. The problem is, I believe, that AT&T UVerse has not been very upfront with us...it's all marketing hype meant to get us to "don't read the fine print..just sign on the dotted line". The only reason, I believe, that there is a blog like this one is because there have been many, many complaints by customers and the big wigs have sent their lowly ranking toadies to try to make things appear all better. PR bandaids. All part of their marketing smoke and mirrors.

 

POTs WILL cease to exist, and probably much earlier than you'd like to believe. It'll be replaced by LTE (and beyond) wireless.

 

As far as your "Walk like a duck" comment, in your case I think it's more like "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

 

Maybe you need a new mask and a few more beans in your rattles.

 


NoFSTV-LinkTV-RT-NoDeal wrote:
If it walks like a duck, squawks like a duck then it is probably a duck. If it acts like a monopoly then it most likely is a monopoly. Yes, at one time they broke up the monopolies, in 1996, but then, since deregulation, they grew back into a monopoly again. We are given no choice in keeping the traditional land line form of communications...unless we agree to sign up with UVerse and all of their inherent problems that so many customers have suffered from. Or, at least, they want you to believe that POTS will cease to exist whenever they upgrade to FO. Our only other recourse is to go cable or wireless. The problem is, I believe, that AT&T UVerse has not been very upfront with us...it's all marketing hype meant to get us to "don't read the fine print..just sign on the dotted line". The only reason, I believe, that there is a blog like this one is because there have been many, many complaints by customers and the big wigs have sent their lowly ranking toadies to try to make things appear all better. PR bandaids. All part of their marketing smoke and mirrors.

 

POTs WILL cease to exist, and probably much earlier than you'd like to believe. It'll be replaced by LTE (and beyond) wireless.

 

As far as your "Walk like a duck" comment, in your case I think it's more like "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

 

Maybe you need a new mask and a few more beans in your rattles.

 

Sent from my phone.
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

Re: What can my line handle technically at 3,732 ft from CO

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ptkdude wrote:

Thanks for the photos, ScottMac.  It's interesting to see what it actually looks like under there! 


You're welcome! Up in the North here, many states use salt on our roads (Illinois and Michigan, for example).

 

After a snowfall, out comes the salt. At some point all that saltwater washes down into the manholes, causing the different metals to electrolyze / corrode. The metal ladder going into that hole had ~3/4" rungs at the top, and less than a pencil's diameter at the bottom ... and a lot of that brown stain you see is iron that was deposited as a result of the electrolysis. Eventually it erodes the cable and case racks and they need to be replaced.

 

The splice cases don't break down like that because they are made of either lead (old ones) or plastic / fiberglass (newer ones).  If there is a suspected connection problem, the repair folks have to pump the water out of the hole, then pump in air (the big yellow tube) for a while to displace the toxic gasses formed by all the decomposing organic matter (in additon to salt, sometimes you get a dead animal, plants, leaves or some garbage).

 

Then they have to split the case, check / fix the connection, then solder the case back together.

 

If the manhole is in the middle of a street, it takes a while to get access because the local government has to approve the traffic blockage and a the proper signage and barriers have to be delivered and put up.

 

 


ptkdude wrote:

Thanks for the photos, ScottMac.  It's interesting to see what it actually looks like under there! 


You're welcome! Up in the North here, many states use salt on our roads (Illinois and Michigan, for example).

 

After a snowfall, out comes the salt. At some point all that saltwater washes down into the manholes, causing the different metals to electrolyze / corrode. The metal ladder going into that hole had ~3/4" rungs at the top, and less than a pencil's diameter at the bottom ... and a lot of that brown stain you see is iron that was deposited as a result of the electrolysis. Eventually it erodes the cable and case racks and they need to be replaced.

 

The splice cases don't break down like that because they are made of either lead (old ones) or plastic / fiberglass (newer ones).  If there is a suspected connection problem, the repair folks have to pump the water out of the hole, then pump in air (the big yellow tube) for a while to displace the toxic gasses formed by all the decomposing organic matter (in additon to salt, sometimes you get a dead animal, plants, leaves or some garbage).

 

Then they have to split the case, check / fix the connection, then solder the case back together.

 

If the manhole is in the middle of a street, it takes a while to get access because the local government has to approve the traffic blockage and a the proper signage and barriers have to be delivered and put up.

 

 

Sent from my phone.
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

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