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Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B
Edited by onefear on Aug 25, 2013 at 2:25:18 PM

I have a Cisco E4200 as a router running behind my gateway.  Previously I used the E4200 for n-wireless because the 3801 HGV-B was only g-capable.  I also configured many of the security and access features of the E4200 to meet the needs of our family network.  I run the E4200 on a different subnet than the gateway (IP Address 192.168.2.1, Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0, Device range from 192.168.2.100 to 149).

 

Recently, I had a severe intermittent service problem develop, and the technician replaced the 3801 with a Pace 5031NV.  At that time, it was a clean swap.  Didn't change any settings on the new gateway; didn't change any settings on the E4200.  When this didn't solve the problem, I took the following steps on the RG (based, unsurprisingly upon SomeJoe7777's advice here) :

 

1.  Activated DMZPlus on the 5031NV.

2. Rebooted the E4200

3. On the 5031NV RG in Settings -> Firewall -> Advanced Configuration, unchecked Stealth Mode, Block Ping, Strict UDP Session Control.

4. On the 5031NV RG in Settings -> Firewall -> Advanced Configuration, I checked everything under Outbound Protocol Control except NetBIOS.

5. On the 5031NV RG in Settings -> Firewall -> Advanced Configuration, I unchecked NetBIOS under Inbound Protocol Control.

6. On the 5031NV RG in Settings -> Firewall -> Advanced Configuration, I uncheckedUncheck all the Attack Detection checkboxes (7 of them).

7.  Disabled WiFi on the 5031NV RG.

 

When the technician was here, I couldn't really get anything out of him about diagnostic results (if there were any).  He just swapped the gateway. None of this has solved the problem  - internet has been spotty and for two days I haven't been able to make outgoing (VoIP) calls.Two questions:

 

A.  Setting the phone issues aside, with the goal of running the E4200 behind the Gateway (getting the Gateway as close as possible to a bridge mode), is this setup functional? optimal?

 

B.  Any sense of whether using the RG for my WiFi connection rather that the E4200 would be better or even possible?  (further revealing my status as n00b who was lucky to have a stable network for a long time)

 

Thanks for your help.  Let me know if you need any logs or IP info to address these questions, and thanks very much for the help!

 

Clay Johnson

 

I have a Cisco E4200 as a router running behind my gateway.  Previously I used the E4200 for n-wireless because the 3801 HGV-B was only g-capable.  I also configured many of the security and access features of the E4200 to meet the needs of our family network.  I run the E4200 on a different subnet than the gateway (IP Address 192.168.2.1, Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0, Device range from 192.168.2.100 to 149).

 

Recently, I had a severe intermittent service problem develop, and the technician replaced the 3801 with a Pace 5031NV.  At that time, it was a clean swap.  Didn't change any settings on the new gateway; didn't change any settings on the E4200.  When this didn't solve the problem, I took the following steps on the RG (based, unsurprisingly upon SomeJoe7777's advice here) :

 

1.  Activated DMZPlus on the 5031NV.

2. Rebooted the E4200

3. On the 5031NV RG in Settings -> Firewall -> Advanced Configuration, unchecked Stealth Mode, Block Ping, Strict UDP Session Control.

4. On the 5031NV RG in Settings -> Firewall -> Advanced Configuration, I checked everything under Outbound Protocol Control except NetBIOS.

5. On the 5031NV RG in Settings -> Firewall -> Advanced Configuration, I unchecked NetBIOS under Inbound Protocol Control.

6. On the 5031NV RG in Settings -> Firewall -> Advanced Configuration, I uncheckedUncheck all the Attack Detection checkboxes (7 of them).

7.  Disabled WiFi on the 5031NV RG.

 

When the technician was here, I couldn't really get anything out of him about diagnostic results (if there were any).  He just swapped the gateway. None of this has solved the problem  - internet has been spotty and for two days I haven't been able to make outgoing (VoIP) calls.Two questions:

 

A.  Setting the phone issues aside, with the goal of running the E4200 behind the Gateway (getting the Gateway as close as possible to a bridge mode), is this setup functional? optimal?

 

B.  Any sense of whether using the RG for my WiFi connection rather that the E4200 would be better or even possible?  (further revealing my status as n00b who was lucky to have a stable network for a long time)

 

Thanks for your help.  Let me know if you need any logs or IP info to address these questions, and thanks very much for the help!

 

Clay Johnson

 

Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Aug 27, 2013 3:53:20 PM
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I'm having much the same problem, except our router is a Sonicwall TZ200W.  I've tried disabling all the security I could find on the Pace 5031NV -- no luck.  Right now I'm operating in a mode that I consider moderately dangerous -- my Macbook is connected directly to the 5031NV.  Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance,

Tony Lima

:manfrustrated:

 

 

I'm having much the same problem, except our router is a Sonicwall TZ200W.  I've tried disabling all the security I could find on the Pace 5031NV -- no luck.  Right now I'm operating in a mode that I consider moderately dangerous -- my Macbook is connected directly to the 5031NV.  Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance,

Tony Lima

:manfrustrated:

 

 

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Aug 28, 2013 7:21:17 PM
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@TonyLima, The 5031 provides a reasonable level of security from attacks from the outside, as with most gateway routers.

 

@onefear: You can certainly try using the 802.11n capability of the 5031 if that's the only reason you had the router behind router in the first place.

 

@Both: The 5031 has only been being deployed for a couple of months and the community hasn't quite gotten our hands around the ins-and-outs of configuring it.  The best info I have is that it shouldn't be significantly different to configure in Router-behind-RG than the 3801, and that those instructions stand.  (see post 2 in this thread).

 

 

@TonyLima, The 5031 provides a reasonable level of security from attacks from the outside, as with most gateway routers.

 

@onefear: You can certainly try using the 802.11n capability of the 5031 if that's the only reason you had the router behind router in the first place.

 

@Both: The 5031 has only been being deployed for a couple of months and the community hasn't quite gotten our hands around the ins-and-outs of configuring it.  The best info I have is that it shouldn't be significantly different to configure in Router-behind-RG than the 3801, and that those instructions stand.  (see post 2 in this thread).

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Aug 31, 2013 10:26:11 AM
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Edited by onefear on Aug 31, 2013 at 8:09:51 PM

Here is an update to my situation.  Generally, the Internet seems to be working well, but once every hour or so at irregular intervals, the internet/wifi will drop entirely with no errors in the table on the RG.  All devices using internet just stop receiving the download stream.  But, it never takes more than 15 seconds or so to refresh (manually) and reconnect.    This may be a problem with my E4200/WiFi setup that I am just beginning to investigate.  The E4200 is on  different subnet.

 

Here is a screen shot of my basic stats.  I can't get a bitloading diagram using UV Realtime, but that may be because it is written for the 3801?  No usage data in UV Realtime either.  There aren't many errors yet because I reset the network to run UV Realtime hardwired to the RG at the same time I run it wirelessly.  Since it seems to be pulling stats directly from the RG this does not seem to matter.  Still not sure why the bitloading and usage data will not show up on either installation of UV Realtime.  Last speedtest was Ping 69 ms; Download 17.28 Mbps; Upload 1.34 Mbps.

 

Stats-2013-08-31-10-40-35.png

 

ErrorTable-2013-08-31-12-10-36.png

 

As far as VoIP is concerned, that problem (may not have mentioned above) continues.  I plugged my telephone directly into the RG phone port.  I receive incoming calls normally.  When I attempt to make an outgoing call I:  (1) hit the switchook, (2) hear the comfort dial tone, (3) dial the number, and (4) listen, and hear absolutely nothing but a little static of the type that would tell you the line is active.  The recipient of the call:  (1) gets a ring; (2) answers the call; (3) can hear me talk.  As the placer of the call I have no audible indication that the call is connected and can hear nothing at all. 

 

Thanks for your help and any supplemental observations and suggestions. 

Here is an update to my situation.  Generally, the Internet seems to be working well, but once every hour or so at irregular intervals, the internet/wifi will drop entirely with no errors in the table on the RG.  All devices using internet just stop receiving the download stream.  But, it never takes more than 15 seconds or so to refresh (manually) and reconnect.    This may be a problem with my E4200/WiFi setup that I am just beginning to investigate.  The E4200 is on  different subnet.

 

Here is a screen shot of my basic stats.  I can't get a bitloading diagram using UV Realtime, but that may be because it is written for the 3801?  No usage data in UV Realtime either.  There aren't many errors yet because I reset the network to run UV Realtime hardwired to the RG at the same time I run it wirelessly.  Since it seems to be pulling stats directly from the RG this does not seem to matter.  Still not sure why the bitloading and usage data will not show up on either installation of UV Realtime.  Last speedtest was Ping 69 ms; Download 17.28 Mbps; Upload 1.34 Mbps.

 

Stats-2013-08-31-10-40-35.png

 

ErrorTable-2013-08-31-12-10-36.png

 

As far as VoIP is concerned, that problem (may not have mentioned above) continues.  I plugged my telephone directly into the RG phone port.  I receive incoming calls normally.  When I attempt to make an outgoing call I:  (1) hit the switchook, (2) hear the comfort dial tone, (3) dial the number, and (4) listen, and hear absolutely nothing but a little static of the type that would tell you the line is active.  The recipient of the call:  (1) gets a ring; (2) answers the call; (3) can hear me talk.  As the placer of the call I have no audible indication that the call is connected and can hear nothing at all. 

 

Thanks for your help and any supplemental observations and suggestions. 

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Aug 31, 2013 10:29:31 AM
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@JefferMC:  FYI. I use the E4200 for WiFi and routing because I configured the E4200's internet access rules to keep my kids sleeping instead of surfing, and it would be great to continue to do so.

@JefferMC:  FYI. I use the E4200 for WiFi and routing because I configured the E4200's internet access rules to keep my kids sleeping instead of surfing, and it would be great to continue to do so.

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Aug 31, 2013 12:22:18 PM
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onefear,

UV Realtime does not officially support the 5031NV yet because that gateway is quite new. This is why it can't get the usage statistics or bitloading information.
onefear,

UV Realtime does not officially support the 5031NV yet because that gateway is quite new. This is why it can't get the usage statistics or bitloading information.

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Aug 31, 2013 12:44:38 PM
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Thank you SomeJoe777.  That's what I figured, and that's OK!  Your guidance has helped me many many many times with networking stuff, so thanks for all you do.

Thank you SomeJoe777.  That's what I figured, and that's OK!  Your guidance has helped me many many many times with networking stuff, so thanks for all you do.

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Aug 31, 2013 8:08:13 PM
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After fooling with frequent drops all day, I disabled DCHP on the E4200 and reconfigured with static IP.   Before taking that step, a couple of things are interesting.

First, the Subnet on the U-Verse Gateway is 255.255.<u>252</u>.0 whereas the subnet mask on the E4200 Network Setup is 255.255.255.0.  All the setup instructions I have seen have indicated that the subnet mask on the gateway and router (on a different subnet) should be the same (and the 255.255.255.0 value) for this setup.

Second, and I think that this is an ATT RG issue for a long time - the DCHP lease time is 10 minutes (in spite of a 24 hour setting on the gateway) and is not adjustable on RG or E4200.  I suspect that the internet drops are related to the DCHP Internet Setting on the E4200 to automatic and the lease time.  

 

This thread here is almost exactly what I have experienced, down to the Subnet Mask description and lease time. 

U-verse IP addresses change infrequently right?  That's one of the reasons that DCHP was nice. Any additional observations about how to possible retain DCHP functionality or affect lease time with the 5031NV would be great.  Thanks all!

After fooling with frequent drops all day, I disabled DCHP on the E4200 and reconfigured with static IP.   Before taking that step, a couple of things are interesting.

First, the Subnet on the U-Verse Gateway is 255.255.<u>252</u>.0 whereas the subnet mask on the E4200 Network Setup is 255.255.255.0.  All the setup instructions I have seen have indicated that the subnet mask on the gateway and router (on a different subnet) should be the same (and the 255.255.255.0 value) for this setup.

Second, and I think that this is an ATT RG issue for a long time - the DCHP lease time is 10 minutes (in spite of a 24 hour setting on the gateway) and is not adjustable on RG or E4200.  I suspect that the internet drops are related to the DCHP Internet Setting on the E4200 to automatic and the lease time.  

 

This thread here is almost exactly what I have experienced, down to the Subnet Mask description and lease time. 

U-verse IP addresses change infrequently right?  That's one of the reasons that DCHP was nice. Any additional observations about how to possible retain DCHP functionality or affect lease time with the 5031NV would be great.  Thanks all!

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Aug 31, 2013 8:20:48 PM
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The subnet of the RG should be 255.255.255.0 if you didn't change the default gateway/range of 192.168.1.254

The subnet of the RG should be 255.255.255.0 if you didn't change the default gateway/range of 192.168.1.254

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Aug 31, 2013 8:22:20 PM
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Do you have multiple phones? It sounds like your VoIP issue may be a bad phone. Try another one if you have it. If it is happening on all phones, then the 5031 must be bad. Set up an appointment for a tech to come swap it.

Do you have multiple phones? It sounds like your VoIP issue may be a bad phone. Try another one if you have it. If it is happening on all phones, then the 5031 must be bad. Set up an appointment for a tech to come swap it.

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Aug 31, 2013 8:24:40 PM
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Sorry, forgot that the RG was already swapped, so it's not very likely that one is bad also. I would remove your router and just use the RG for internet for a few days and see if that fixes it. Then you will know its a configuration problem.

Sorry, forgot that the RG was already swapped, so it's not very likely that one is bad also. I would remove your router and just use the RG for internet for a few days and see if that fixes it. Then you will know its a configuration problem.

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Sep 1, 2013 8:01:39 AM
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Edited by onefear on Sep 1, 2013 at 8:03:45 AM

Thanks drumboy35.  I'll do these things.  The fact that the 3801 died and was swapped with a 5031 doesn't really affect the probability that the 5031 is bad, so who knows. The switch to a static IP did not help the problem.  During some streaming video last night there was a hard internet drop every few minutes.  This morning the error table looks like this.  These service drops continue to be mysterious, but now do not seem DHCP related. Thanks.

 

ErrorTable-2013-09-01-09-43-18.png

 

It will be great to figure this out.

Thanks drumboy35.  I'll do these things.  The fact that the 3801 died and was swapped with a 5031 doesn't really affect the probability that the 5031 is bad, so who knows. The switch to a static IP did not help the problem.  During some streaming video last night there was a hard internet drop every few minutes.  This morning the error table looks like this.  These service drops continue to be mysterious, but now do not seem DHCP related. Thanks.

 

ErrorTable-2013-09-01-09-43-18.png

 

It will be great to figure this out.

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Edited by onefear on Jan 10, 2014 at 8:23:25 PM

A short update to this thread and continued telephone problems.  The source of the crashing network trouble turned out to be the Netflix app on a Wii U.  Don't know why (and long before I learned to stop asking "why" about some tech things), but every time someone opened the app, the entire network would crash and, consequently, all devices would simultaneously lose their connection to the internet.  Once we stopped using the app, the problems stopped completely.  Go figure.

 

The telephone issue, however, persists.  Recently, becaue of the telephone issue and because of some wild variation in download speeds and major streaming problems, a tech came out.  He confirmed the phone problem - will dial out and connect, but person on uverse phone cannot hear anything through the telephone after the last number is dialed - nothing.  The same phone receives calls just fine, and I believe that we tested out the phone itself and it was fine.  The tech swapped out the 5031NV for a new 5031NV, and when he left, the phone was working perfectly.  One day later and to present, the phone is having the same problem.  The telephone exhibits the same behavior when plugged directly into the RG. 

 

Any further ideas?  I will also post to the Uverse Phone forum.  Thanks!

A short update to this thread and continued telephone problems.  The source of the crashing network trouble turned out to be the Netflix app on a Wii U.  Don't know why (and long before I learned to stop asking "why" about some tech things), but every time someone opened the app, the entire network would crash and, consequently, all devices would simultaneously lose their connection to the internet.  Once we stopped using the app, the problems stopped completely.  Go figure.

 

The telephone issue, however, persists.  Recently, becaue of the telephone issue and because of some wild variation in download speeds and major streaming problems, a tech came out.  He confirmed the phone problem - will dial out and connect, but person on uverse phone cannot hear anything through the telephone after the last number is dialed - nothing.  The same phone receives calls just fine, and I believe that we tested out the phone itself and it was fine.  The tech swapped out the 5031NV for a new 5031NV, and when he left, the phone was working perfectly.  One day later and to present, the phone is having the same problem.  The telephone exhibits the same behavior when plugged directly into the RG. 

 

Any further ideas?  I will also post to the Uverse Phone forum.  Thanks!

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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Apr 2, 2014 4:31:09 PM
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Edited by leonheart390 on Apr 2, 2014 at 4:33:21 PM

Do you have filters on all your phone in your home? The little white boxes that connect between your phone and the phone plug? If you don't then that is why you will have static issues.
You must have your phones connected to the phone line filters and then the cord connect to the phone line plug.
If you don't have those connected, your setup will not work.
If you do have your phones connected to them, you may have to replace all or some of them in order to fix the issue.
Those pesky phone line filters while required are a common problem creator among phone and DSL connection setups.

 

I used to be a AT&T Call Center Technician and usually a bad or faulty filter is the cause of the problems you described. You will have to check every single one by removing each one and testing the phones on each one to find which one is causing problems.

Do you have filters on all your phone in your home? The little white boxes that connect between your phone and the phone plug? If you don't then that is why you will have static issues.
You must have your phones connected to the phone line filters and then the cord connect to the phone line plug.
If you don't have those connected, your setup will not work.
If you do have your phones connected to them, you may have to replace all or some of them in order to fix the issue.
Those pesky phone line filters while required are a common problem creator among phone and DSL connection setups.

 

I used to be a AT&T Call Center Technician and usually a bad or faulty filter is the cause of the problems you described. You will have to check every single one by removing each one and testing the phones on each one to find which one is causing problems.

Re: Router Behind RG Setup: 5031NV Replaces 3801 HGV-B

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