Out of range for Power Internet speed

Tutor

Out of range for Power Internet speed

Hi, I had a service tech to my house today to upgrade my internet speed from Uverse Max Plus to Power. When they guy came, he said he cannot upgrade me to Power, because I am out of range. He said about 300' too far from the central hub. My neighbors can get it, but I can't.  

 

I was originally interested in upgrading, because I was noticing a significant drop in MBPS in what I call peak usage hours (5pm-10pm). I was speed testing about 6-8mbps on average at those times, and my TV (hardwired & wireless) would, on occasion, drop signal every few few minutes for a second or two, especially if I have 2 TVs on at the same time. 

The tech told me the best he could do is to upgrade me to Max Turbo, but it would be the same equipment, just a change on their end to speed things up. I was really looking forward to Power and the Motorola NVG589. Do any of you know why I would be considered out of range for Power, or if there are plans to upgrade the technology in the hub so it can reach my house?

Message 1 of 23 (2,105 Views)
Employee

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

There are requirements for POWER as there are for other tiers.
The loop length (wire run) needs to be under 2200 feet, per tech discussion 300 feet means you are about 2500 feet.
This is too long for bonded 589 Power internet and too short for bonded 589 (3000 feet +) for bonded 589 Max Plus, your current tier.

The distance between serving terminals is generally 200 feet, if neighbors are serviced fromone location, yu from the next that is 200 feet plus drop to house.

Concerning reason why wanting to upgrade, do you have IPTV service?
You are aware bandwidth is shared?

If on a 25M profile, 18M internet package....each HD feed uses about 6M. Watch or recorded.
No TV 25-0=25 have 18 internet
1 HD input 25-6=19 have 18 internet
2 HD inputs 25-12=13 have 13 internet
3 HD inputs 25-18=7 have 6 internet.

Other possibilities include internet congestion during peak usage, no guarantee that faster internet speed capabilities translate to faster speeds during rush hour traffic.

From Uverse Internet TOS
The speeds identified at

http://att.com/speedtiers

data between the network interface device at your home, office or apartment building to the first piece of routing equipment in AT&T’s network. Service Capability Speeds should not be confused with Throughput Speed, which is the speed at which your modem receives and sends Internet access data (“Throughput Speed”). These speeds may vary and are not guaranteed. Throughput speed depends upon many factors including customer location, destination and traffic on the Internet, interference with high frequency spectrum on your telephone line, wiring inside your home, office or apartment, the capacity or performance of your computer or modem, the server with which you are communicating, internal network factors, and the networks you and others are using when communicating. In order to provide a consistently high-quality video service, AT&T Uverse High Speed Internet throughput speeds may be temporarily reduced when a customer is using other U-verse services in a manner that requires high bandwidth. This could occur more often with higher speed Internet access products.
Employee Contributor*
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions.
Message 2 of 23 (2,096 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

I believe the standard is that you have to be within 2200' feet (line distance) of the VRAD to be eligible.

 

For fun, you could download UV Realtime, install it, run it and post screenshots of the IP/Profile tab, Bitloading tab, and Error Table tab.  Then we can look and see how your line looks and see if you are close enough to try to beg.

To post screenshots in the forum, reply to this post and use the Insert/Edit Image button (it looks like a tree) in the post editor. One of us will look at your information and let you know what we think.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 3 of 23 (2,094 Views)
Employee

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

As a side note, when the 17a and vectoring (between now and end of 2015) are released offering more bandwidth capabilities, you should, be eligible for faster profiles on a single pair install that may or may not require a different RG.
Employee Contributor*
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions.
Message 4 of 23 (2,093 Views)
Tutor

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

OK, so if I am at about 2500 feet, I don't understand this following statement:

 

"This is too long for bonded 589 Power internet and too short for bonded 589 (3000 feet +) for bonded 589 Max Plus, your current tier."

 

Will I not be able to even upgrade to Max Plus and realize speeds of 24mbps as advertised? What does too short for bonded 589 mean?

 

Since I am at a longer run length, is this as fast as I will be able to get?

Message 5 of 23 (2,088 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed


bgildea02 wrote:

OK, so if I am at about 2500 feet, I don't understand this following statement:

 

"This is too long for bonded 589 Power internet and too short for bonded 589 (3000 feet +) for bonded 589 Max Plus, your current tier."

 

Will I not be able to even upgrade to Max Plus and realize speeds of 24mbps as advertised? What does too short for bonded 589 mean?

 

Since I am at a longer run length, is this as fast as I will be able to get?


You're too far away to get the bonded-pair high speed 55 Mbps profile (because you need to be 2200' or less).  People who are more than 3000' away can get bonded-pair just so that they can get the speeds that people who are closer can get on one pair, just so that they can get any service at all.  At 2500', you're not eligible for the bonded-pair-just-to-get-service. 

 

At 2500' you may have a good enough line to get the 32 Mbps profile and get 24 Mbps HSIA, but to know, I'd need to see your UVrealtime stats.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 6 of 23 (2,085 Views)
Tutor

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

Thank you for the information. I am new, so forgive me if I'm asking silly questions. What is the 24 Mbps HSIA?

 

Is there a way I can request U-verse to check my distance and "UVrealtime stats", and see if I am eligable for bonded-pair or bump me up to a 32 Mbps profile (I didn't know a 32 Mbps profile was even available)? How do they know what my distance actually is?

 

Message 7 of 23 (2,081 Views)
Highlighted
ACE - Expert

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

A bit of explanation:  The RG and VRAD communicate at set speed profiles, regardless of what High Speed Internet Access (HSIA) you have paid for.  This communication channel is shared between Internet, IPTV and Voice (if you have it).  Profiles currently in use are 13.5/1.5 (For Internet only customers only), 25/3, 32/5 and 55/~6.

 

Available HSIA tiers are 6/1, 12/1.5, 18/1.5, 24/3, 45/~6.

 

Your distance and line quality establish what profile that AT&T will set you up to work in.  The profile you have limits what HSIA tiers you can get (you can't get a 45/6 tier if you only have an 25/3 profile).

 

UVrealtime is a program written by a customer and offered for use by the Uverse community.  It has no official status with AT&T, but we find it useful.  AT&T has their own tools for determining if your line is good enough.  The tech who came out used some of these tools and should have been able to tell you if your line was capable of 32 Mbps and asked for the profile to be upgraded.  Use of Uverse realtime would be sort of a check-behind to see if you should "appeal his decision."

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 8 of 23 (2,069 Views)
Tutor

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed


JefferMC wrote:

A bit of explanation:  The RG and VRAD communicate at set speed profiles, regardless of what High Speed Internet Access (HSIA) you have paid for.  This communication channel is shared between Internet, IPTV and Voice (if you have it).  Profiles currently in use are 13.5/1.5 (For Internet only customers only), 25/3, 32/5 and 55/~6.

 

Available HSIA tiers are 6/1, 12/1.5, 18/1.5, 24/3, 45/~6.

 

Your distance and line quality establish what profile that AT&T will set you up to work in.  The profile you have limits what HSIA tiers you can get (you can't get a 45/6 tier if you only have an 25/3 profile).

 

UVrealtime is a program written by a customer and offered for use by the Uverse community.  It has no official status with AT&T, but we find it useful.  AT&T has their own tools for determining if your line is good enough.  The tech who came out used some of these tools and should have been able to tell you if your line was capable of 32 Mbps and asked for the profile to be upgraded.  Use of Uverse realtime would be sort of a check-behind to see if you should "appeal his decision."

 


thank you very much for this explanation. I will download the UVrealtime tonight and post results. Hopefully using that, you guys can let me know how my line looks, and if I have a case to push for the 32 Mbps. 

Message 9 of 23 (2,056 Views)
Tutor

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

OK, well I was upgraded to the 24/3 tier for HSIA and IPTV (no phone), and I didn't see any difference other than upload speeds were right at 3. I actually speed tested every 15 minutes with TVs on, with them off, streaming music, etc. and I was seeing 9-17Mbps average downloads that were jumpy and unreliable. When I had two HDTVs on at the same time, the sound was actually cutting on and off on certain channels.  

 

I spoke to the tech again this monring, and he told me i'm beyond the range for bonded pair (still don't know what my distance actually is) and their proposed solution was to drop me back to 18/1.5 and reprovision my port (to fix the TV issue?), and that would be the best for reliable service they are able to provide me. 

 

Is this really my best option with AT&T? I understand i'm far from the box, but is there no other way to get my speed and reliability up?

 

I was not able to download UVrealtime on my Mac, so i'll try and bring my work PC home tonight to do it. 

Message 10 of 23 (2,009 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

You are "in the gap" as far as bonded pair, between 2200' and 3000'.  You're too far away to get it for the 55 Mbps profile, and apparently too close to need it for the 25 Mbps profile.

 

The 18/1.5 profile isn't supposed to be used anymore so I'm sort of surprised they offered that as a solution; if you're struggling to get 25 Mbps, then you're not too close for pair bonding (in my humble opinion, which with a quarter will get you a two bit cup of coffee).

 

So, yeah, let's see if you can get UVrealtime installed and get us some screen shots so we're not working in a vacuum.  There are utilities to load a copy of Windows on your Mac, but the Windows laptop should work.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 11 of 23 (1,997 Views)
Tutor

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

here are some screen shots from the UVrealtime. I didn't know what to post specifically, so here are 4, but let me know if you need another others to review. What are your thoughts?

 

Message 12 of 23 (1,982 Views)
Tutor

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

I currently have 2 HDTVs on, and on the one, my sound is cutting out and barely working. I also speed tested the wireless and i'm getting 1-2Mbps down and .2 up, some speed tests will not even load due to the slow speed. 

 

Here are some additional UVrealtime screen shots (if it makes a difference from the ones above). Thanks for any help you can provide.

Message 13 of 23 (1,967 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

Thank you for the screenshots.  Very helpful.

 

1) UVrealtime, judging from your line impedence, thinks you are at 2000'.  This may not be accurate, but it is interesting.

 

2) Your line currently looks like it should be able to easily handle a profile rate of 25/2.  You have been set for a profile rate of 19/2 (per what the last tech told you he could do).  Thus, your line is configured to use less of its capacity.

 

3) At 9:16 AM today, your RG had so many errors it decided to retrain the line.  Since then you haven't had any hard errors, just FEC (soft, correctable errors) and not unreasonable number of those.  This leads me to wonder what happened before 9:16 AM.

 

4) The comb pattern in the end of your upstream band on your bitloading graph shouldn't really be there, this means the RG/VRAD are having trouble negotiating in that area of frequencies.  This, to me, indicates a line (reflection or some such) or VRAD card port problem.

 

5) As of this last screenshot you apparently were watching an HD channel on the non-DVR box, and either it was also being watched on the DVR box, or it was just buffering it in case you wanted to do trick play; these are on port 3 and 4 of the RG.  Note that this took 6 Mbps of your 19 Mbps available, meaning that only 13 Mbps would be available for download.

 

6) Also as of this last screenshot there was measurable (but not high) traffic on the other two RJ45 ports and the wireless interface.  So, they're all hooked to something.

 

#5 and #6 were just in the way of showing you some information UVrealtime lets you know about your network.

 

Okay, my humble opinion:

 

a) You need to get a third opinion on what your line is able to do. Because UVrealtime and the tech that visited you disagree.

 

Since my own install, I don't always trust the tech's distance numbers because he told me a distance that was ludicrously high based on (a) the fact that I can trace what the cable does in the 600 or less feet to my home and (b) I couldn't have my 65M sync rate (or anywhere close) at the distance he said.  Maybe you are 2,500' away, but now I doubt it.

 

They also should be able to either explain—or better yet—make go away, that comb pattern.  And your current sync rate and UVrealtime's estimated distance says that you can get 45 Mbps Internet.  Keep in mind that UVRealtime is not official and AT&T doesn't care what it says, but that sync rate comes from your modem.

 

There could be other reasons you can't get 55 Mbps; they may not have a free port on your VRAD, or a spare pair in your bundle, or no NVG 589's in their trucks.

 

b) Run some WIRED speed tests right before/after your WIRELESS speed tests.  Your WIRELESS speed test are also subject to WIRELESS interference and/or poor 802.11g/n performance for other reasons.  Post your results.  Wireless issues have different resolutions than signal problems into your RG.

 

c) That burst of errors before 9:16 AM was probably caused by something.  I would ask if you have a treadmill or anything that might be used at that time of day, or an appliance (microwave, washing machine)?

 

d) To accomplish getting that third opinion, please click this AT&T logoU-verse Customer Service link to send a Private Message (PM) to the AT&T customer service team to help you resolve your issues. You can expect a reply via return PM (the blue envelope envelope in the upper right hand corner of this site) in a business day or three.

This is a group of U-verse service specialists who are knowledgeable about U-verse and will stay with your problem until the end (instead of forgetting about it when the phone hits the cradle). Speed things up by including your Billing Account Number, and the best time and way to reach you.  Tell them about this post and they can find it and read through it.

 

e) Please keep us up to date in your continued progess in this thread.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 14 of 23 (1,955 Views)
Employee

Re: Out of range for Power Internet speed

[ Edited ]

Your account is messed up, you have 39M available but on a 19M profile, which is 2SD/2HD for IPTV, and best internet tier available is MAX 12/1.5. With a SN margin of 15.

First get profile changed to 25M/2M, verify internet tier set to Max Plus (18/1.5). Your SN margin is going to drop down to around 11.

Next, belief your distance to be around 2500 feet, how is the RG connected to NID, on coax or cat5?
If coax need to be cat5, will improve noise margin. If have tech do this expect billable minimum $99.

Factory reset the RG, and move Ethernet cables to unused ports.
The receivers are direct connected to RG, not to a switch with other internet devices correct?
If above is true, no switch, direct connect, is ethernet cable factory made or man made.
Possible bad cable, or jack, or crossover (AB) cable.

Both receivers hardwired, no wireless receivers.

Currently concerned about tv issues, as internet speed issue during prime time 4pm to 11pm is most likely congestion.
Preference is given to IPTV bandwidth over internet usage, once TV service stable, then will look again at speed tests.

Again, receiver(s) multicast traffic not on switch with internet devices, port swaps back RG (2 used with 2 unused), after profile upgraded to 25M.

Employee Contributor*
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions.
Message 15 of 23 (1,954 Views)
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