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Posted Jan 15, 2014
7:54:14 AM
I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

Kind of a rant I guess, but the fact that AT&T won't allow us to set our own DNS servers just rubs me the wrong way.

 

I used to do the whole passthru mode, have my own router stuff, worked fine, but I have yet to find a home router that allows multicast routing, so I could never get the AT&T Apps (remote control your set top boxes) to work because of this.

 

I have the ASUS RT-AC66U, and if I wanted to risk bricking it, I could go with dd-wrt and get multicast routing working, but I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO.  With my router set in AP mode, I'm getting my much better wireless, and my apps work to control the STB's.  The only thing I can't do in this setup is use my choice of DNS servers.

 

So I'm left with use it as is (anyone remember the big AT&T DNS fiasco from a couple years ago?), or I can risk bricking my router to get multicast routing functionality.

 

If anyone has any other suggestions, I'm more than happy to investigate them.

Kind of a rant I guess, but the fact that AT&T won't allow us to set our own DNS servers just rubs me the wrong way.

 

I used to do the whole passthru mode, have my own router stuff, worked fine, but I have yet to find a home router that allows multicast routing, so I could never get the AT&T Apps (remote control your set top boxes) to work because of this.

 

I have the ASUS RT-AC66U, and if I wanted to risk bricking it, I could go with dd-wrt and get multicast routing working, but I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO.  With my router set in AP mode, I'm getting my much better wireless, and my apps work to control the STB's.  The only thing I can't do in this setup is use my choice of DNS servers.

 

So I'm left with use it as is (anyone remember the big AT&T DNS fiasco from a couple years ago?), or I can risk bricking my router to get multicast routing functionality.

 

If anyone has any other suggestions, I'm more than happy to investigate them.

I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 15, 2014 8:20:10 AM
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ACE - Expert
rottielover - I believe many people, including me, have selected DNS routers instead of the default provided by at&t. It is done in each computer, not the router.

I believe you do not need multicasting for the u-verse app. You need to connect to the u-verse internet wi-fi generated by the RG. This is different than the TV wi-fi that supports wireless receivers. It does not include u-verse TV. If you add your own equipment to the internet wi-fi be sure to add it to the subnet. Do not create a new subnet.
rottielover - I believe many people, including me, have selected DNS routers instead of the default provided by at&t. It is done in each computer, not the router.

I believe you do not need multicasting for the u-verse app. You need to connect to the u-verse internet wi-fi generated by the RG. This is different than the TV wi-fi that supports wireless receivers. It does not include u-verse TV. If you add your own equipment to the internet wi-fi be sure to add it to the subnet. Do not create a new subnet.
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 15, 2014 8:32:30 AM
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Edited by rottielover on Jan 15, 2014 at 8:36:52 AM

"rottielover - I believe many people, including me, have selected DNS routers instead of the default provided by at&t. It is done in each computer, not the router."

 

Tedious for anyone with more than 3 devices and not best-practice.  It's an option, but yuk.

"I believe you do not need multicasting for the u-verse app. You need to connect to the u-verse internet wi-fi generated by the RG. This is different than the TV wi-fi that supports wireless receivers. It does not include u-verse TV. If you add your own equipment to the internet wi-fi be sure to add it to the subnet. Do not create a new subnet."

 

Putting in a "dumb" Access Point and disabling the wireless built into the RG works fine.  This is because the AP ends up on in the same Layer 2 as the RG and recives/ passes the mulitcast traffic.  I'm not talking about the "wireless TV" at all, totally seperate.

 

See thread: http://forums.att.com/t5/Applications/iPad-app-behind-my-router/td-p/3057147#.Uta37RBdWjU        The apps use multicast.  (SSDP used for discovery)

"rottielover - I believe many people, including me, have selected DNS routers instead of the default provided by at&t. It is done in each computer, not the router."

 

Tedious for anyone with more than 3 devices and not best-practice.  It's an option, but yuk.

"I believe you do not need multicasting for the u-verse app. You need to connect to the u-verse internet wi-fi generated by the RG. This is different than the TV wi-fi that supports wireless receivers. It does not include u-verse TV. If you add your own equipment to the internet wi-fi be sure to add it to the subnet. Do not create a new subnet."

 

Putting in a "dumb" Access Point and disabling the wireless built into the RG works fine.  This is because the AP ends up on in the same Layer 2 as the RG and recives/ passes the mulitcast traffic.  I'm not talking about the "wireless TV" at all, totally seperate.

 

See thread: http://forums.att.com/t5/Applications/iPad-app-behind-my-router/td-p/3057147#.Uta37RBdWjU        The apps use multicast.  (SSDP used for discovery)

Re: I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 15, 2014 8:45:06 AM
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ACE - Expert
rottielover - That link goes way beyond what little knowledge I have in this area.

I do not have in-depth understanding because mine "just works".

I have seen posts saying that mixing TV and internet on the same leg from the RG can cause multicast generated problems.

Another post I have seen a few of is to disable upnp6 solves some problems.
rottielover - That link goes way beyond what little knowledge I have in this area.

I do not have in-depth understanding because mine "just works".

I have seen posts saying that mixing TV and internet on the same leg from the RG can cause multicast generated problems.

Another post I have seen a few of is to disable upnp6 solves some problems.
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 15, 2014 9:50:24 AM
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ACE - Expert

I understand where you're coming from...

 

  • You want to have your own default DNS, etc, so you set up your own router to put your network behind and for your mobile devices to attach to wirelessly.
  • Your mobile device must be in the same IP subnet as the STB to control it via TCP/IP because it uses a protocol which uses multicasts on the LAN subnet for discovery.

 

I'm having a hard time imagining how you would configure your router, even with DD-WRT, to deal with both of these requirements.

I understand where you're coming from...

 

  • You want to have your own default DNS, etc, so you set up your own router to put your network behind and for your mobile devices to attach to wirelessly.
  • Your mobile device must be in the same IP subnet as the STB to control it via TCP/IP because it uses a protocol which uses multicasts on the LAN subnet for discovery.

 

I'm having a hard time imagining how you would configure your router, even with DD-WRT, to deal with both of these requirements.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 15, 2014 11:09:53 AM
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JefferMC - Re: Your mobile device must be in the same IP subnet as the STB to control it via TCP/IP because it uses a protocol which uses multicasts on the LAN subnet for discovery.

You convinced me that the multicast feature has more use than distributing the video. Previously, I had only seen it applied to video distribution.

But, thinking about it - It appears to be a quick and dirty way of getting the job done? That is, it is easier for the developer, but more problematic for the customer. A common design problem that is totally opposed to the purpose of mechanization.

I say this based on the fact that the RG has a list of the STBs. Why is this list not used to communicate with the target STB? Why does it have to invoke multi-cast to discover the STB?
JefferMC - Re: Your mobile device must be in the same IP subnet as the STB to control it via TCP/IP because it uses a protocol which uses multicasts on the LAN subnet for discovery.

You convinced me that the multicast feature has more use than distributing the video. Previously, I had only seen it applied to video distribution.

But, thinking about it - It appears to be a quick and dirty way of getting the job done? That is, it is easier for the developer, but more problematic for the customer. A common design problem that is totally opposed to the purpose of mechanization.

I say this based on the fact that the RG has a list of the STBs. Why is this list not used to communicate with the target STB? Why does it have to invoke multi-cast to discover the STB?
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 15, 2014 11:19:22 AM
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Edited by rottielover on Jan 15, 2014 at 11:20:41 AM

Since DD-WRT supports IGMP v3 you would do essentially what the guy with the Cisco PIX did in that thread I linked  enable PIM, enable IGMP  and allow the multicast to route over layer 3 so that you can get it from subnet A (the RG's 192.168 network) to a new subnet "B" which would be controled by my router.

 

Essentially the router becomes a sort of multicast relay in a sense...  But I really don't want to risk my $200 + router by installing DD-WRT ("I void warrenty's") ...

 

I suppose I could look for a Cisco PIX or ASA on ebay, but again,  this whole issue would be solved if AT&T would allow us to set our own DNS servers in the RG config.

 

Alternative:  Setup a form or something and allow IT professionals to apply for "root" level access to our RG's Smiley Wink

Since DD-WRT supports IGMP v3 you would do essentially what the guy with the Cisco PIX did in that thread I linked  enable PIM, enable IGMP  and allow the multicast to route over layer 3 so that you can get it from subnet A (the RG's 192.168 network) to a new subnet "B" which would be controled by my router.

 

Essentially the router becomes a sort of multicast relay in a sense...  But I really don't want to risk my $200 + router by installing DD-WRT ("I void warrenty's") ...

 

I suppose I could look for a Cisco PIX or ASA on ebay, but again,  this whole issue would be solved if AT&T would allow us to set our own DNS servers in the RG config.

 

Alternative:  Setup a form or something and allow IT professionals to apply for "root" level access to our RG's Smiley Wink

Re: I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 15, 2014 11:24:27 AM
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ACE - Expert
Edited by JefferMC on Jan 15, 2014 at 11:27:04 AM

I was actually thinking it used broadcast (192.168.1.255) instead of a multicast address.

 

I don't think the RG has a facility for allowing others to query it to find out what STBs are available.  I think SomeJoe sniffs the traffic passing by between the RG, the DVR and the STBs and picks up the information about the settops for the UVrealtime display.


For 95% of U-verse households, the RG is the wireless access point, the STB and the mobile device are on the same private LAN and there is a fine way of reaching each other on that network.

 

For some much smaller fraction of households, there is a wireless router to which the mobile device connects and the LANs are not the same and it doesn't work.

 

For an even smaller fraction of households, there is a wireless access point—or wireless router configured as if it were an access point—and they are all on the same LAN and life is still good.

 

I, myself, am in the third category.

I was actually thinking it used broadcast (192.168.1.255) instead of a multicast address.

 

I don't think the RG has a facility for allowing others to query it to find out what STBs are available.  I think SomeJoe sniffs the traffic passing by between the RG, the DVR and the STBs and picks up the information about the settops for the UVrealtime display.


For 95% of U-verse households, the RG is the wireless access point, the STB and the mobile device are on the same private LAN and there is a fine way of reaching each other on that network.

 

For some much smaller fraction of households, there is a wireless router to which the mobile device connects and the LANs are not the same and it doesn't work.

 

For an even smaller fraction of households, there is a wireless access point—or wireless router configured as if it were an access point—and they are all on the same LAN and life is still good.

 

I, myself, am in the third category.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 15, 2014 6:48:18 PM
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UV Realtime detects the DVR and STBs on the network the same way, by sniffing the network for SSDP packets, which are indeed multicast. And because they are multicast, they indeed won't cross a router that doesn't route multicast.

The only alternative is to set DNS directly on each network device.
UV Realtime detects the DVR and STBs on the network the same way, by sniffing the network for SSDP packets, which are indeed multicast. And because they are multicast, they indeed won't cross a router that doesn't route multicast.

The only alternative is to set DNS directly on each network device.

Re: I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 15, 2014 7:33:41 PM
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So much for the mobile apps. I'd rather have functionality I get with OpenDNS since I'm forced to choose.

It's a shame really.

So ATT, if you happen upon this thread, some "subscribers" actually know something about computers. For us 1% er's, how about letting us config our own settings? I'm sure you could get $5 a month for it.
So much for the mobile apps. I'd rather have functionality I get with OpenDNS since I'm forced to choose.

It's a shame really.

So ATT, if you happen upon this thread, some "subscribers" actually know something about computers. For us 1% er's, how about letting us config our own settings? I'm sure you could get $5 a month for it.

Re: I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 30, 2014 4:25:59 PM
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This is the first thread I've found where some of the posts seem to indicate that I can use a device (router, ap, extender, etc) for my wireless besides the RG that WILL allow me to use the STB remote apps.  Am I understanding this correctly? (I've been trying this off and on since the apps were in beta.)

 

My house is large and not at all conducive to easy wireless access for multiple reasons, especially not with the RG.  In order to get wireless working throughout I currently have an Asus N router behind the RG that is handling all of my wireless.  It uses a wired connection to the RG.  

 

IF this can be done, how would I set up the RG and router to do so?  I also have lots of spare routers and such sitting around so if I need to use DDWRT or some other firmware and/or multiple devices (I just didn't want to go down the rabbit hole chasing something that couldn't be done) that would be ok.

 

Thanks in advance!

This is the first thread I've found where some of the posts seem to indicate that I can use a device (router, ap, extender, etc) for my wireless besides the RG that WILL allow me to use the STB remote apps.  Am I understanding this correctly? (I've been trying this off and on since the apps were in beta.)

 

My house is large and not at all conducive to easy wireless access for multiple reasons, especially not with the RG.  In order to get wireless working throughout I currently have an Asus N router behind the RG that is handling all of my wireless.  It uses a wired connection to the RG.  

 

IF this can be done, how would I set up the RG and router to do so?  I also have lots of spare routers and such sitting around so if I need to use DDWRT or some other firmware and/or multiple devices (I just didn't want to go down the rabbit hole chasing something that couldn't be done) that would be ok.

 

Thanks in advance!

Re: I want it all (My own DNS and still use apps)

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Jan 30, 2014 5:38:53 PM
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I have been using Apple's Time Capsule,Airport Extreme Base Station and Airport Express to cover the full span of my property by simply putting the Apple gear in bridge mode which makes them wireless access points which would be the same i would do for Netgear or Asus routers.

 

I have been using Apple's Time Capsule,Airport Extreme Base Station and Airport Express to cover the full span of my property by simply putting the Apple gear in bridge mode which makes them wireless access points which would be the same i would do for Netgear or Asus routers.

 

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Jan 30, 2014 5:55:50 PM
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Hurting2Ride wrote:

This is the first thread I've found where some of the posts seem to indicate that I can use a device (router, ap, extender, etc) for my wireless besides the RG that WILL allow me to use the STB remote apps.  Am I understanding this correctly? (I've been trying this off and on since the apps were in beta.)

 

My house is large and not at all conducive to easy wireless access for multiple reasons, especially not with the RG.  In order to get wireless working throughout I currently have an Asus N router behind the RG that is handling all of my wireless.  It uses a wired connection to the RG.  

 

IF this can be done, how would I set up the RG and router to do so?  I also have lots of spare routers and such sitting around so if I need to use DDWRT or some other firmware and/or multiple devices (I just didn't want to go down the rabbit hole chasing something that couldn't be done) that would be ok.

 

Thanks in advance!



What you want to do is set your wireless router up as if it were an access point.  This can normally done using the stock firmware of the router.  Please see post 13 in this thread.  I have done this and I have run the U-verse Connected functions of the U-verse app on my Samsung Galaxy S4 and controlled the boxes on my house through this router.

 


Hurting2Ride wrote:

This is the first thread I've found where some of the posts seem to indicate that I can use a device (router, ap, extender, etc) for my wireless besides the RG that WILL allow me to use the STB remote apps.  Am I understanding this correctly? (I've been trying this off and on since the apps were in beta.)

 

My house is large and not at all conducive to easy wireless access for multiple reasons, especially not with the RG.  In order to get wireless working throughout I currently have an Asus N router behind the RG that is handling all of my wireless.  It uses a wired connection to the RG.  

 

IF this can be done, how would I set up the RG and router to do so?  I also have lots of spare routers and such sitting around so if I need to use DDWRT or some other firmware and/or multiple devices (I just didn't want to go down the rabbit hole chasing something that couldn't be done) that would be ok.

 

Thanks in advance!



What you want to do is set your wireless router up as if it were an access point.  This can normally done using the stock firmware of the router.  Please see post 13 in this thread.  I have done this and I have run the U-verse Connected functions of the U-verse app on my Samsung Galaxy S4 and controlled the boxes on my house through this router.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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