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Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?

Scholar

Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?

HI;

 

I'm on the 18/1.5Mbps plan.  My speed tests on the line show very close to 18 and virtually are always at 1.5Mbps.

 

I've been uploading photos and videos in the background.  I limited it to using 1300kbps, which should leave me a solid 200kbps free, not a lot, but should be enough for sending some simple requests.

 

If I try and download a test file from a known fast site (one that normally gets 10+Mbps), My network useage will go up to maybe 5-7Mbps at the most, but will hover much lower for most of the download, more like 3-4Mbps.

 

The test file I am downloading is a single 100MB file, so there should not be a lot of information that needs to be sent, it is mainly a request for the file, then I should be downloading it.

 

So why is it that I can't download more quickly while uploading, even when my upload is not maxing out the connection and there should be plenty of upload bandwidth available to send the requests promptly?

 

When I limited my uploads to about 85% of my up stream connection, I thought that would give me enough room for most of my downloading activties to work properly, but this isn't proving to ne the case.

 

Jamie

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Message 1 of 91
Expert

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?

This is the result of poor buffering/routing that is inherent to the 2Wire router.  There's not much that can be done.

 

You miht try limiting the upload further, to around 900 kbps.

 

Message 2 of 91
Scholar

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?


SomeJoe7777 wrote:

This is the result of poor buffering/routing that is inherent to the 2Wire router.  There's not much that can be done.

 

You miht try limiting the upload further, to around 900 kbps.

 


Is there a way to bypass the router by putting an external router on one of the ports? 

 

Thanks

 

Jamie

Message 3 of 91
Expert

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?

You can put your own router behind the RG and use it in the DMZPlus mode, but that will not improve the problem.  The 2Wire RG still routes under this condition, and the upstream buffering and delays will still be present.

 

Message 4 of 91
Scholar

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?


SomeJoe7777 wrote:

You can put your own router behind the RG and use it in the DMZPlus mode, but that will not improve the problem.  The 2Wire RG still routes under this condition, and the upstream buffering and delays will still be present.

 


Thank You for your assistance.  As a test, I put a PC directly into the DMZPlus mode with all of the firewall stuff turned off.  I thught this might create less overhead in the router and make it run faster.  It seems like it is performing a little better with this setup, but I have not run any before / after test to confirm exactly what the improvment may be.

 

So if I was able to get the 24/3 connection speed, would that help with this issue (was told it might be possiable with line conditioning)?  Then if I ran my uploads at say 1.5/Mbps and had 1.5/Mbps available, would I get faster download speeds or would I still have this same problem due to limits from the RG.

 

Thanks again;

 

Jamie

Message 5 of 91
Expert

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?

A 24/3 connection using only 1.5 Mps upload may improve it somewhat, but don't expect anything dramatic.

 

Message 6 of 91
Scholar

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?


SomeJoe7777 wrote:

A 24/3 connection using only 1.5 Mps upload may improve it somewhat, but don't expect anything dramatic.

 



Thank you again for your help. 

 

Do I understand this correctly that this is basically a design flaw with the U-Verse service?  They have selected equipment that could not handle the work load of the service they offered and there is no work-around?

 

If I am uploading at or a little over 1Mbps, I'm only seeing the download at an average of 3-4Mbps.  I am paying for a 18/1.5 connection.

 

I thought AT&T guaranteed you would get at least 50% of the speed of your package that you buy; I never saw that this was only available under certain conditions (i.e. download speeds are only available if your not using upload).

 

Am I missing something?  This just don't seem right, I'd think a lot of people that upload stuff would be really upset they are not getting the downstream they are paying for.

 

Even at about 1Mbps up, Streaming Netflix on my TV is often very slow, taking 3-5 minutes for a show to load, and often seeing pauses during the show.  If I am not uploading, it loads in 30 seconds or less and generally does not pause at all.

 

Since I often have uploads running for 1/2 the day or more, this is greatly impacting my use of other Internet Based services.  Web browsing is about the speed I would expect on a 768K or maybe 1.5Mbps connection. 

 

I kind of think web browsing on my old 6Mbps/768K DSL while uploading was faster overall.  Perhaps this was due to the fact that I was able to use my own router with a speedstream.

 

I try to avoid the isssue by starting my uploads in the evening when I am done with the computer and going to bed to watch Netflix, but then as mentioned it is with significant delays and pauses in streaming.

 

I just did a ping test to a site that is normally around 20- 40ms and while I am uploading, 46 pings averaged 475ms ping time.  I'd guess the increased latency I am seeing is slowing things down as well. 

 

Thanks again,

 

Jamie

Message 7 of 91
Expert

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?

You may try a factory reset of the RG to clear out any potential configuration problems.

 

The factory reset button is at the bottom of this page:

 

http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=C_5_7

 

You will lose all configuration information in the RG when you factory reset it, so write down any firewall settings or other settings you may have.

 

Also, if you set up your own router according to this post, you will minimize any processing that the RG has to do.  This may help things somewhat, but again, you can't make the problem go away.

 

This is a poor design of the 2Wire units.  AT&T contracted with 2Wire to produce these gateways, and they built a fairly crappy one.  It is what it is.

 

Message 8 of 91
Scholar

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?


SomeJoe7777 wrote:

You may try a factory reset of the RG to clear out any potential configuration problems.

 

The factory reset button is at the bottom of this page:

 

http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=C_5_7

 

You will lose all configuration information in the RG when you factory reset it, so write down any firewall settings or other settings you may have.

 

Also, if you set up your own router according to this post, you will minimize any processing that the RG has to do.  This may help things somewhat, but again, you can't make the problem go away.

 

This is a poor design of the 2Wire units.  AT&T contracted with 2Wire to produce these gateways, and they built a fairly crappy one.  It is what it is.

 


 

Thank You.  I'll give this a try later on today (I'm waiting for uploads to finish that I don't want to abort).

 

I'll let you know how it works.

 

Thanks

 

Jamie

Message 9 of 91
Employee

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?

 


jamiedolan wrote:

SomeJoe7777 wrote:

You may try a factory reset of the RG to clear out any potential configuration problems.

 

The factory reset button is at the bottom of this page:

 

http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=C_5_7

 

You will lose all configuration information in the RG when you factory reset it, so write down any firewall settings or other settings you may have.

 

Also, if you set up your own router according to this post, you will minimize any processing that the RG has to do.  This may help things somewhat, but again, you can't make the problem go away.

 

This is a poor design of the 2Wire units.  AT&T contracted with 2Wire to produce these gateways, and they built a fairly crappy one.  It is what it is.

 


 

Thank You.  I'll give this a try later on today (I'm waiting for uploads to finish that I don't want to abort).

 

I'll let you know how it works.

 

Thanks

 

Jamie


If you haven't done so, it might be worth checking out your cabling; a bad / damaged / improperly terminated cable can cause these symptoms too. The issue is severe crosstalk causing interference between the Tx an Rx pairs. Te interference damages the traffic and causes a high re-transmission rate.

 

If you're up for some technological adventure, download 'Wireshark" (it's free) do a basic capture, and look through the captured traffic for re-transmissions ... there might even be a filter for it (I use a commercial sniffer and haven't looked at WS for some time). 

 

You may even see some "collisions,"  even though you're in (should be in) full duplex mode.

 

If you are using coax, make sure the connections (every connection ... every joint sees the entire coax network) are more than hand tight (40 Inch pounds is spec if I'm remembering right) ... call it an eighth-turn (to as much as a quarter turn) after hand tight.

 

If your devices are plugged into the ethernet jack in the back of the set-top box, that is a non-supported config; try a direct connection to the RG or approved switch that is directly connected to the RG.

 

For the traffic rates and data density you mention, cabling is more likely the issue, IMO. I've driven my own system and RGs in the Lab much harder than this without issue, especially in the last couple releases of RG code.

 

Employee Contributor*
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions.
Message 10 of 91
Scholar

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?


ScottMac wrote:

 If you haven't done so, it might be worth checking out your cabling; a bad / damaged / improperly terminated cable can cause these symptoms too. The issue is severe crosstalk causing interference between the Tx an Rx pairs. Te interference damages the traffic and causes a high re-transmission rate.

 

If you're up for some technological adventure, download 'Wireshark" (it's free) do a basic capture, and look through the captured traffic for re-transmissions ... there might even be a filter for it (I use a commercial sniffer and haven't looked at WS for some time). 

 

You may even see some "collisions,"  even though you're in (should be in) full duplex mode.

 

If you are using coax, make sure the connections (every connection ... every joint sees the entire coax network) are more than hand tight (40 Inch pounds is spec if I'm remembering right) ... call it an eighth-turn (to as much as a quarter turn) after hand tight.

 

If your devices are plugged into the ethernet jack in the back of the set-top box, that is a non-supported config; try a direct connection to the RG or approved switch that is directly connected to the RG.

 

For the traffic rates and data density you mention, cabling is more likely the issue, IMO. I've driven my own system and RGs in the Lab much harder than this without issue, especially in the last couple releases of RG code.

 



HI;

 

Thanks for your response.  I just downloaded and it is installing (taking a long time for some reason).

 

I have a new piece of cat5 running from my jack inside to the basement where there are a couple scotch locks on it connecting it to the wire that goes outside.  The AT&T modem  / router unit is pluged right into that jack.  This is my setup inside:

 

  IMG_6961.jpg

IMG_6962.jpg

 

I was planning on running a new piece of cat5 from the dmark right up to the RG unit to see if it would allow me to get the 24/3 service, but have not done so as of yet.  The dark blue cable goes right to my desktop computer, the other cable isn't connected to anything as of yet, it is for the external router.

 

I have time today, should I go ahead and replace the cat5 out to the Dmark?

 

Thanks;

Jamie

Message 11 of 91
Scholar

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?

This is a shot of the results from the WireShark program.  Are these messages / Errors indicating a problem?

 

Fullscreen capture 5162011 20546 PM.jpg

 

Thanks!

Jamie

Message 12 of 91
Employee

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?


jamiedolan wrote:

ScottMac wrote:

 If you haven't done so, it might be worth checking out your cabling; a bad / damaged / improperly terminated cable can cause these symptoms too. The issue is severe crosstalk causing interference between the Tx an Rx pairs. Te interference damages the traffic and causes a high re-transmission rate.

 

If you're up for some technological adventure, download 'Wireshark" (it's free) do a basic capture, and look through the captured traffic for re-transmissions ... there might even be a filter for it (I use a commercial sniffer and haven't looked at WS for some time). 

 

You may even see some "collisions,"  even though you're in (should be in) full duplex mode.

 

If you are using coax, make sure the connections (every connection ... every joint sees the entire coax network) are more than hand tight (40 Inch pounds is spec if I'm remembering right) ... call it an eighth-turn (to as much as a quarter turn) after hand tight.

 

If your devices are plugged into the ethernet jack in the back of the set-top box, that is a non-supported config; try a direct connection to the RG or approved switch that is directly connected to the RG.

 

For the traffic rates and data density you mention, cabling is more likely the issue, IMO. I've driven my own system and RGs in the Lab much harder than this without issue, especially in the last couple releases of RG code.

 



HI;

 

Thanks for your response.  I just downloaded and it is installing (taking a long time for some reason).

 

I have a new piece of cat5 running from my jack inside to the basement where there are a couple scotch locks on it connecting it to the wire that goes outside.  The AT&T modem  / router unit is pluged right into that jack.  This is my setup inside:

 

  IMG_6961.jpg

IMG_6962.jpg

 

I was planning on running a new piece of cat5 from the dmark right up to the RG unit to see if it would allow me to get the 24/3 service, but have not done so as of yet.  The dark blue cable goes right to my desktop computer, the other cable isn't connected to anything as of yet, it is for the external router.

 

I have time today, should I go ahead and replace the cat5 out to the Dmark?

 

Thanks;

Jamie


Yessir, I believe you should.

 

The problem with ScotchLoks is that because they are branded as "Cat 5," people used them indescriminately (and in some cases, carelessly / because it's the easiest path); the Cat 5 rating only applies if you follow all the other rules for a Category-rated install, i.e., no more than 1/2" (3/8" for Cat6 and above) exposed and/or untwisted pair (exposed=out of the sheath), maintain the twist up to the termination point, bend radius, kinks, twists, proximity to other conductors / ferrous metals, etc). Also, make sure you use solid conductor UTP/Cat5, 5e ... stranded conductor has much greater attenuation for a comparible span length.

 

Also, please, make sure you follow one of the two acceptable pair-orders (568a, 568b) when you terminate the RJ45 Mod plug. SO many people use a {pair}{pair}{pair}{pair} pattern, which is wrong, really, very wrong because it splits the pin3/pin6 pair into two different colors, which blows the crosstalk figured rate thef'k out the window ... if you cath my drift ...

 

The primary symptom for a split pair (which is usually 3/6, pair #2) is that you can get decent speed (though usually not max) in a half-duplex situation, but very slow throughput in a full-duplex situation, because of the crosstalk (all flavors). Look up the term "Attenuation to Crosstalk Ratio" (ACR) and it should give you a good idea of why it's critical.

 

568a pair order: Green-white, Green, Orange-white, Blue, Blue-white, Orange, Brown-white, Brown.

 

568b is the same, but exchange the green and orange pairs: (Orange-White, Orange, Green-white, Blue, Blue-white, Green, Brown-white, Brown).

 

It take no additional effort to terminate it using the right pair order and colors, please (for the sake of otheres that have to work on it after you're gone) follow the conventions.

 

Always terminate all four pair.  Never use one pair for phone and the other pair(s) for data. Run more cable than you think you need, leave a good service loop (extra length to make it easier to terminate) ...

 

Repost & ask if you have any questions.

 

Employee Contributor*
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions.
Message 13 of 91
Employee

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?


jamiedolan wrote:

This is a shot of the results from the WireShark program.  Are these messages / Errors indicating a problem?

Thanks!

Jamie

 

Fullscreen capture 5162011 20546 PM.jpg

 



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe so; it's hard to tell sometimes without looking at a larger chunk of capture.. That screen is filled with one host trying to acknowledge a single transmission. Either the sender is not responding, or it's repeatedly sending the same data, because it's not seeing the ACK. The transmission cannot, in many cases, progress until the previous transmission (or group of transmissions as a limited group) are acknowledged ("ACK'ed) by the receiving side (like you see in one of the green colored lines).

 

There are two on this screen: ACK=16926095 and ACK=3199121 ... there should be one ACK for each of those; the screen is showing a dozen or so for each ... and there were probably more for those two, and even more for other packets/segments.

 

IMO, there is not much chance that this is RG related; this appears to be more of an infrastructure issue. There's not a lot to go on, but that trace is showing something is really not right.

 

 

 

Employee Contributor*
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions.
Message 14 of 91
Scholar

Re: Downloads while uploading very slow, Solutions?


ScottMac wrote:

 

The problem with ScotchLoks is that because they are branded as "Cat 5," people used them indescriminately (and in some cases, carelessly / because it's the easiest path); the Cat 5 rating only applies if you follow all the other rules for a Category-rated install, i.e., no more than 1/2" (3/8" for Cat6 and above) exposed and/or untwisted pair (exposed=out of the sheath), maintain the twist up to the termination point, bend radius, kinks, twists, proximity to other conductors / ferrous metals, etc). Also, make sure you use solid conductor UTP/Cat5, 5e ... stranded conductor has much greater attenuation for a comparible span length.

 

Also, please, make sure you follow one of the two acceptable pair-orders (568a, 568b) when you terminate the RJ45 Mod plug. SO many people use a {pair}{pair}{pair}{pair} pattern, which is wrong, really, very wrong because it splits the pin3/pin6 pair into two different colors, which blows the crosstalk figured rate thef'k out the window ... if you cath my drift ...

 

The primary symptom for a split pair (which is usually 3/6, pair #2) is that you can get decent speed (though usually not max) in a half-duplex situation, but very slow throughput in a full-duplex situation, because of the crosstalk (all flavors). Look up the term "Attenuation to Crosstalk Ratio" (ACR) and it should give you a good idea of why it's critical.

 

568a pair order: Green-white, Green, Orange-white, Blue, Blue-white, Orange, Brown-white, Brown.

 

568b is the same, but exchange the green and orange pairs: (Orange-White, Orange, Green-white, Blue, Blue-white, Green, Brown-white, Brown).

 

It take no additional effort to terminate it using the right pair order and colors, please (for the sake of otheres that have to work on it after you're gone) follow the conventions.

 

Always terminate all four pair.  Never use one pair for phone and the other pair(s) for data. Run more cable than you think you need, leave a good service loop (extra length to make it easier to terminate) ...

 

Repost & ask if you have any questions.

 



Couple quick questions.

 

The Cat 5 currently runs next to (same hole / joist cavity as a piece of 12 gage romex for power.  Should I try to move it away from the power, if so, how far is suggested?

 

When you say "Always terminate all four pair" I'm not sure I follow what your saying.  I belive there are just 2 terminals (1 pair) out in the Dmarc and my RJ11 phone jack has 4 terminals for 2 pairs.  Then the RJ11 cable runs from the jack to the RG (green cable).

 

Where do I terminate the rest of the pairs?  Am I connecting these together and using multiple wires on each terminal?

 

Thanks

 

Jamie

Message 15 of 91
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