Sony DLP TV replacement program

Master

Sony DLP TV replacement program

Sony made thousands of DLP (Digital Light Projection) HDTV's where there's a defect in the optical block causing all kinds of picture problems. These problems include areas of mainly yellow-green-blue screen tints and sometimes lines across the screen. So Sony started an extended warranty program on these sets 2-3 years ago and for a while believe they were replacing optical blocks until they were no longer available. Then they started a replacement program where they offered certain TV models for free or at a discounted price.

 

For the past year my 60" KDS60A3000 has become progressively dimmer/dark where a new replacement lamp (Genuine Phillips) did not increase the brightness where is used to be. Also there's a yellow area on the top/right side of the screen which is a tell-tale sign the optical block is failing. It also seems like my HD picture is fuzzy although I'm not sure it's an optical block problem.

The extended warranty/replacement program ended mid-last year but Sony is still honoring replacement TV's at a discounted price. In doing a search I didn't even know the below 5+ year old AVS Forum thread for my model set even existed. There's some real good info toward the end of this thread on replacements and reps from "Sonylistens" are monitoring, along with participating, in this thread. So I sent an email to Sonylistens from info on page 504, post 15098, as can be seen below.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/889226/official-sony-kds-xxa3000-owners-thread/15090

 

So last week I made a deal with the Sony reps on buying a Sony 55" KDL55HX750 for $750 plus tax which is half the sale price of $1,500. I didn't like the idea in stepping down in size (54 1/2" diag vs 60") but they only offered 2 models as a replacement and I chose the better one. The 55HX750 has all the "bells & whistles" including 3D (probably won't use), 240Hz, motion-flow, LED backlit, wifi, internet downloads/movies, etc.. It still has the matte screen (rare anymore) which I wanted anyhow to cut down on glare but it also makes the picture a little less clear. Just hope the viewing angle isn't narrow but it has a swivel stand. I shouldn't have read every review I could after the purchase and only hoping for a much better HD picture with this set. I'm sure it won't be up to the quality of my KDS-60A3000 when new but it has to be better than what I'm watching now.

 

http://store.sony.com/p/55%22-Class-%2854.6%22-diag.%29-HX750-Internet-TV/en/p/KDL55HX750

 

It should be noted that Sony does make you "jump threw some hoops" in purchasing a replacement set. Once they make you an offer by phone you only have 7 days to accept it or it's void. I also had to take a photo of my screen problems, along with removing the model/SN sticker off the back, and mail both to them. I used certified mail and once received they have to verify the screen problem from the photo which can be a copy. I just called and the problem is verified while my new set will be shipped by Feb 11. The shipper (Ceva Logistics) just sets the new set up to make sure it works, doesn't do any of the actual wiring/connections, and they don't remove the old set since it's yours to keep or dispose of.

 

My communcations with Sony were positve and rather than throwing a fit about these problems I built up all the other Sony equipment I have along with their excellent reliability. This may have helped my cause in receiving a good deal on a replacement TV for a program which was supposed to expire last year.

 

A couple years ago I disassembled the whole top half of my set and cleaned it. I'm sure it probably needs it again if I'm even thinking about keeping it. A few weeks ago I also ordered/received a brand new Genuine Phillips XL-5200 replacement lamp w/new housing from Newegg for $86 w/free shipping. I'm going to have to determine quickly if I'm going to send it back or install it.

 

Actually my 1st choice of replacement TV's would be a Panasonic 60" Plasma. But in accepting the Sony 55" LCD/LED I'll just have to see how much I like it and what my other options if not satisfied with it. I will be saving about $800-$900 in accepting the Sony compared to buying the Panasonic.

 

Just thought I'd pass this along and know Phil & SJ have the same type Sony sets as mine.

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.
Message 1 of 26 (6,493 Views)
Master

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

Well we might as well take this full-circle Jeffer. I know what you mean in your post about wider rank bands/widths, since less rank categories, and also about some being promoted up to the next rank when this changed, along w/the ACE promotions for some. But what do you mean when you say, "has anyone leveled lately"? Thanks.

 


JefferMC wrote:

With the newer, wider rank bands (and the field promotions for some of us) has anyone leveled lately?


 

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.
Message 16 of 26 (6,201 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program


Uniblurb3 wrote:

.... But what do you mean when you say, "has anyone leveled lately"? Thanks.


Well, I meant that as a result of those changes we may not have had anyone go up a rank, or "leveled."  I suppose "leveled" (short for "leveled-up") is a gaming term that not everyone would be familiar with.  Smiley Embarassed It isn't in Merriam-Webster after all. Smiley Wink

 

The original point remains that we wouldn't know.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 17 of 26 (6,195 Views)
Master

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program


JefferMC wrote:

Uniblurb3 wrote:

.... But what do you mean when you say, "has anyone leveled lately"? Thanks.


Well, I meant that as a result of those changes we may not have had anyone go up a rank, or "leveled."  I suppose "leveled" (short for "leveled-up") is a gaming term that not everyone would be familiar with.  Smiley Embarassed It isn't in Merriam-Webster after all. Smiley Wink

 

The original point remains that we wouldn't know.

 

 


 

Ahh, now I understand and wouldn't recognize the term "leveled" in that use since I don't game. Kind of thought you might have meant leveled within a wider rank, or kind of stuck, where the raise in rank is now further away.

 

Agree, we wouldn't have a clue if some were raised in rank since we've "gone green".

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.
Message 18 of 26 (6,170 Views)
Master

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

So I received a call on Mon from Ceva Logistics saying they would be delivering my new replacement Sony 55" KDL55HX750 LCD/LED backlite HDTV on Tues. I knew I would soon be short of room for it so I partially disassembled my Sony 60" KDS60A3000 which included removing the front screen. Sure enough the inside was covered with dust/pollen along with some wood stove smoke.

 

So ran a shop-vac on the whole inside front housing part while putting a protective plastic cover over the optic block lens. They say not to use any alcohol based window cleaners but I saw nothing special about the large mirror so had to use windex on it to clean it off. The mirror also took some polishing with a soft cloth to get any streaks out. Then used a real small amount of liquid dish soap w/hot water to clean the inside/outside of the front screen I had off and rinsed it with clear warm water on a real soft rag. Then did something I've never dared to attempt before and cleaned the coated optic block lens with a new Purosol lens cloth and Zeiss lens cleaner I ordered. I made sure I sprayed the lens cloth, instead of the lens itself, which cleaned the lens up real good. But the darn Purosol lens cloth left a little fibers on the lens itself so had to use a lens brush to get them off. I also cleaned the whole outside of the set.

 

I only wish I could remove the whole housing to clean the fan/inside of the back part but even with every screw removed front/back I couldn't get the large whole housing off. Ended up using a small hose taped into the end of the shop-vac tube with a small artist brush to get off as much dust as I could on the inside back fan and lamp areas. I will say the picture looked a whole lot better once assembled but didn't put the new $85 lamp in it yet. I probably should have since in using instructions from the AVS Forum I have 5,000 hours on the current lamp. Know they're supposed to be good for up to 8,000 hours but a new one will give you a brighter picture.

 

Sony had told me when they delivered the new TV the deliver guys would unpack it, plug it in, and make sure it at least turns on/works. But the Ceva rep who called said all they do is deliver the TV in the box and Sony didn't include the "white glove" special setup which costs more. Nice, and I was hoping the deliver guys would move the old DLP into our spare bedroom while helping put the new one at least on my stand.

 

So Tues at noon only one delivery guy shows up and I help him carry the new set into the house. He has me sign a paper which said the set was delivered in good shape. I saw one bottom corner of the box smashed in just a little and told him I was not signing for it until I saw it was not damaged. He told me the Sony TV's are packed so well that little dent in the corner is probably nothing but we unpacked it and it wasn't damaged. I was kind of stuck with the old Sony on the stand, wife was strong enough to help me move it, so told him I'd give him $20 to help move it onto the dresser in the bedroom which was a tight fit. He said he was not supposed to do that but did for $ and left.

 

After assembling the stand, and setting it up, the new 55" Sony does have a great picture. And this is the 1st time I've been able to view the TV in a bright room for years. Now I will say the LCD soap opera/video effect on some programming is going to have to take a little time to get used to. There are so many different lighting/motion features on this set I'm going to have to do some fine tuning to get it just right, or the best it can be. For some reason a lot of the skin tones seem to be washed out/too bright and I'll need to look for a lighting/contrast adjustment on this.

 

My biggest disappointment is this new Sony 55" (actually 54 1/2" diag.) set is it looks absolutely puny on my stand compared to my Sony 60". Main reason, besides size difference, is the speakers are in the back so there is 6 1/2" less spacing on the bottom/front from my old set w/speakers in the front. While the sound is not all that bad I don't like some of the tinty sound of the speakers on many programs and have to turn it up louder. Most new sets are like this w/speakers on the back, most say they're going to use the HTS anyhow for sound, but I don't use my Sony HTS except for Blu-Ray or DVD movies.

 

As far as size differences go, between 54 1/2" vs true 60" diagonal size (5 1/2" smaller), the new set screen is 4 1/2" narrower and 2 3/8" shorter. I am not used to looking down on a set either while standing and almost thought about putting something on under the stand to make it higher. But in sitting on my couch 13' away the picture is right at eye level.

 

While it's nice of Sony to offer me a replacement set at a discounted price it's beyond me why Sony forces you to downsize to only 55" of the 2 sets offered when you had 60" to begin with. I was willing to pay more for a 60" Sony but of course their 60" sets are overpriced and they don't carry/make plasma sets anymore.

 

After 2 days of watching this set I'm still considering boxing it up, selling it, and getting the 60" Panasonic Plasma set I wanted to begin with as can be seen below.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-VIERA-TC-P60ST50-60-Inch-Plasma/dp/B00752VKBY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid...

 

I thought after the Super Bowl prices of HDTV's would drop in price but they haven't. In fact they've gone up in price and I saw this set selling for $1,500 on lots of sites w/free shipping mid-Jan compared to around $1,700 they're selling for now. I looked at the price history of this set and one site was selling it for $1,200 but bet that didn't include free shipping. Still one heck of a deal and I should have jumped on it but never saw it.

 

I may have to just live with what I have for now and try to get used to it. I do like the matte screen finish (most don't) which cuts down on reflection/glare and haven't found the viewing angle to be bad at all as was reported in a review.

 

Sorry for the book but wanted to report it as I see it and you'll never satisfy a perfectionist. Smiley Wink

 

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.
Message 19 of 26 (5,999 Views)
ACE - Master

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

Uni, I should probably know this but help me a bit.   What are you referring to when you say "soap-opera video effect"?  We have our 55" Sony rear projection set in the living room and we have LCD/LED sets in the kitchen and the computer room.  I've performed extensive and very careful adjustments on all three sets using techniques I learned from the engineers at the TV stations where I've worked.  I've always considered myself to be pretty exacting where picture and audio quality are concerned.  So now I'm wondering what I'm missing here. Can you clue me in?Smiley Wink

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 20 of 26 (5,960 Views)
Master

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

Well Phil, back in 2009 I purchased 2 Insignia LCD HDTV's (Best Buy brand). I wanted to make sure I was going to get the best picture on these 32" and 22" sets so made sure they were 1080p w/120Hz refresh rates which I paid more for. Right away I noticed many of the programs, even film/movies, looked like a video or what I found out later to be the "Soap Opera Effect". I had no idea what I was viewing but just knew it looked nothing natural like I was watching on my Sony KDS60A3000.

 

So I contacted SomeJoe asking him about this and sure wish I could find his reply. I'll try to remember what he said and hopefully he'll correct me if wrong. When viewing programs with a high-refresh rate TV there are frames added in between frames to cut down on any type of motion blur. In doing so it makes programs look much like video because some/many people can see these frames added in. I believe SJ said the human eye can only view up to 63 frames per second so when you have refresh rates higher than 60Hz (120Hz, 240Hz, and even higher) this makes the picture look all the more like video the faster the refresh rate since more frames are added in. Believe he also said many people won't notice much difference between 720p compared to 1080p but don't hold me to this.

 

Actually I did some minor adjustments to my Insignia sets buy not much. Believe I've adjusted to the video soap opera effect (SOE) through watching them more. But believe the bigger the set the more you'll notice this effect. Now my new Sony 55" HX750 LCD/LED has a 240Hz refresh rate enhanced by "Motionflow XR 480". I notice no motion blurring at all but do notice the video effect some.

 

Supposedly you can make all kinds of adjustments to remove this effect and many say to disable/turn off any "motion interpolation features" (120Hz, 240Hz, etc), motionflow technology, etc.. I've yet to experiment with this but I'm going to. Believe you can also change your screen mode which may make a difference.

 

Believe film is shot at 24 fps and most will set their Blu-Ray players to this setting for watching movies.

 

Here's a pretty good article which explains the soap opera effect. Maybe SJ will want to clean up my explanation some. Smiley Wink

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-33620_3-57410231-278/the-soap-opera-effect-when-your-tv-tries-to-be-smarte...

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.
Message 21 of 26 (5,938 Views)
ACE - Master

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

[ Edited ]

Thanks for the info. Uni.   Now that you explain it I recognize the effect you're referring to.  I had just not heard of that name for it.

 

I know that sound movie film is shot at 24 frames per second.  Silent film speed was 16 fps.....as in the old 8mm home movies.  In my very early days working in television....before video tape....the movie film projectors and associated equipmen used a special shutter to compensate for the difference between 24 fps and the television 30 fps.   But I admit I have not kept up with it.  I also admit that it is an effect that I don't seem to notice or I've become so accustom to it that it just doesn't register on me. 

 

What we need is a completely new technology so that we no longer will be looking at what amounts to no more than a series of still pictures creating the illusion of motion.  Good grief.....that idea originated with Edison.  No...wait....I remember as a child having some of those children's cartoon books that you could flip the pages to create motion of the figures drawn on he page.  So....come on all geniuses out there......let's redo the whole system.

 

I read some where that the jump to 240 fps creates other problems also but I'll be darn if I can remember what they were.  The jist of the article was that 120 fps was the ideal speed.   But I'll bet that is open to disagreement.  I sure as heck don't know.

 

When I was in grade school I saw my first TV in Chicago.  Went with my pop to a medical convention....stayed in the Palmer House and across the street was a huge, multi-story department store named Carson, Pirie & Scott.   They had sets on display with huge 16 inch screens and I saw my first Flash Gordon program on one of those magic boxes.

 

When my wife and I were first married....going to college....trying to stay afloat financially....we purchased a 10" B & W Motorola table-top set....used....for $25.

 

Now here we are discussing 55 and 60 inch flat panel sets we can hang on a wall.  The other day I was waiting for my wife's medicine prescription to be refilled at WalMart and I wandered back to the tech/TV dept.  There was an 80 inch Sharp LCD/LED hanging on the wall.  HOLY COW!

 

Speaking of visible flicker......years ago my maternal grandparents lived in the Mississippi River town of Ft. Madison, Iowa.  Their electric power came from a low-head hydro electric plant on the river....which also served as part of the river navigation system.  The frequency of their power was 25 Hz....or cycles per second....as they called it in those days.   Even tungsten filament lamps visibly flickered.  Terrible to read by.  When the conversion was made to 60 Hz the power company furnished everyone with replacement appliances like refrigerators, etc.  Anything that had a motor had to be replaced.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 22 of 26 (5,931 Views)
Expert

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

Uni has it right. All the modern TVs do motion interpolation where they create extra frames to smooth out the motion. Since film is normally shot and presented at 24Hz (24 fps), the motion interpolation increases the perceived frame rate. Many television shows were shot at 60 fields per second and have a much smoother look. When the motion interpolation is turned on, the 24fps film begins to look smooth enough that it looks like a television program that was shot at 60 fields per second (most commonly compared to soap operas, hence the name "soap opera effect").

The Sony LCoS series was unique in that it had a motion interpolation setting that struck a great balance. The "Motion Enhancer" had a "Standard" and a "High" setting. The "High" was a 96Hz setting that rendered film to be 96 fps, and would induce the soap opera effect. But the "Standard" effect was a 48Hz setting. This is enough to remove the obvious judder from 24fps, but still low enough to maintain the look of film. Unfortunately, all modern TVs no longer have a motion interpolation setting this low.

The human eye cannot perceive individual frames of motion beyond about 60-70Hz. Once the frame rate is beyond that, the human eye sees no further difference and believes that the motion is continuous. No TV in the world makes any difference if the interpolated frame rate is beyond that. 120, 240, 480 will all look exactly the same.

Film at 24 fps has always been the standard, but it's not ideal. The objective of any video presentation is to show something on-screen that is as close to real life as possible, so higher frame rates needs to become the norm. I believe James Cameron has said he will shoot Avatar 2 in either 48fps or 60fps.
Message 23 of 26 (5,905 Views)
Master

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

[ Edited ]

Phil, it's always interesting to hear some of the history of technology changes you've gone through in your lifetime. Also liked the piece of history about the flickering lamps/lights during your grandparents era on the Mississippi until the power company upgraded to a 60Hz power feed.

 

SJ, thanks for the excellent explanation on the motion interpolation and why the Sony LCoS series sets look so realistic. I never did change the standard setting from 48HZ so this must have been why I was in shock when 1st viewing my 120Hz LCD sets.

 

Let's talk about the extra frames added in with motion enhancers and don't they increase the picture detail to a certain extent? I remember reading an older thread on another forum where old shows like "Gunsmoke" showed detail which was never seen before this new technology. But I would think you can only increase the detail so much and the more frames per second doesn't necessarily mean more detail?

 

Guess another thing I don't understand is I thought plasma sets don't give you the "soap opera effect" like LCD/LED sets? If this is the case why do we see some plasma sets having a 600Hz refresh rate?

 

Thanks for any input to clarify these questions.

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.
Message 24 of 26 (5,890 Views)
Expert

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

The extra frames added by motion interpolation don't increase spatial detail. However, by repeating the same details more times, your brain can pick up on more picture content than it would at the lower frame rate, so there is a perception that you're seeing more detail.

As far as the "soap opera effect", the display technology doesn't really matter. Increasing the frame rate by motion interpolation will produce the same effect, regardless of display technology.
Message 25 of 26 (5,873 Views)
Highlighted
Master

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

Thanks for the explanation SJ and makes a lot of sense. Nice to know my brain has the perception I'm seeing more detail. Smiley Wink

 

Guess I didn't realize plasma sets may also show fast motion blur and they try and correct it with motion interpolation.

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.
Message 26 of 26 (5,820 Views)
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