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Posted Feb 1, 2013
11:07:50 AM
Sony DLP TV replacement program

Sony made thousands of DLP (Digital Light Projection) HDTV's where there's a defect in the optical block causing all kinds of picture problems. These problems include areas of mainly yellow-green-blue screen tints and sometimes lines across the screen. So Sony started an extended warranty program on these sets 2-3 years ago and for a while believe they were replacing optical blocks until they were no longer available. Then they started a replacement program where they offered certain TV models for free or at a discounted price.

 

For the past year my 60" KDS60A3000 has become progressively dimmer/dark where a new replacement lamp (Genuine Phillips) did not increase the brightness where is used to be. Also there's a yellow area on the top/right side of the screen which is a tell-tale sign the optical block is failing. It also seems like my HD picture is fuzzy although I'm not sure it's an optical block problem.

The extended warranty/replacement program ended mid-last year but Sony is still honoring replacement TV's at a discounted price. In doing a search I didn't even know the below 5+ year old AVS Forum thread for my model set even existed. There's some real good info toward the end of this thread on replacements and reps from "Sonylistens" are monitoring, along with participating, in this thread. So I sent an email to Sonylistens from info on page 504, post 15098, as can be seen below.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/889226/official-sony-kds-xxa3000-owners-thread/15090

 

So last week I made a deal with the Sony reps on buying a Sony 55" KDL55HX750 for $750 plus tax which is half the sale price of $1,500. I didn't like the idea in stepping down in size (54 1/2" diag vs 60") but they only offered 2 models as a replacement and I chose the better one. The 55HX750 has all the "bells & whistles" including 3D (probably won't use), 240Hz, motion-flow, LED backlit, wifi, internet downloads/movies, etc.. It still has the matte screen (rare anymore) which I wanted anyhow to cut down on glare but it also makes the picture a little less clear. Just hope the viewing angle isn't narrow but it has a swivel stand. I shouldn't have read every review I could after the purchase and only hoping for a much better HD picture with this set. I'm sure it won't be up to the quality of my KDS-60A3000 when new but it has to be better than what I'm watching now.

 

http://store.sony.com/p/55%22-Class-%2854.6%22-diag.%29-HX750-Internet-TV/en/p/KDL55HX750

 

It should be noted that Sony does make you "jump threw some hoops" in purchasing a replacement set. Once they make you an offer by phone you only have 7 days to accept it or it's void. I also had to take a photo of my screen problems, along with removing the model/SN sticker off the back, and mail both to them. I used certified mail and once received they have to verify the screen problem from the photo which can be a copy. I just called and the problem is verified while my new set will be shipped by Feb 11. The shipper (Ceva Logistics) just sets the new set up to make sure it works, doesn't do any of the actual wiring/connections, and they don't remove the old set since it's yours to keep or dispose of.

 

My communcations with Sony were positve and rather than throwing a fit about these problems I built up all the other Sony equipment I have along with their excellent reliability. This may have helped my cause in receiving a good deal on a replacement TV for a program which was supposed to expire last year.

 

A couple years ago I disassembled the whole top half of my set and cleaned it. I'm sure it probably needs it again if I'm even thinking about keeping it. A few weeks ago I also ordered/received a brand new Genuine Phillips XL-5200 replacement lamp w/new housing from Newegg for $86 w/free shipping. I'm going to have to determine quickly if I'm going to send it back or install it.

 

Actually my 1st choice of replacement TV's would be a Panasonic 60" Plasma. But in accepting the Sony 55" LCD/LED I'll just have to see how much I like it and what my other options if not satisfied with it. I will be saving about $800-$900 in accepting the Sony compared to buying the Panasonic.

 

Just thought I'd pass this along and know Phil & SJ have the same type Sony sets as mine.

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Sony made thousands of DLP (Digital Light Projection) HDTV's where there's a defect in the optical block causing all kinds of picture problems. These problems include areas of mainly yellow-green-blue screen tints and sometimes lines across the screen. So Sony started an extended warranty program on these sets 2-3 years ago and for a while believe they were replacing optical blocks until they were no longer available. Then they started a replacement program where they offered certain TV models for free or at a discounted price.

 

For the past year my 60" KDS60A3000 has become progressively dimmer/dark where a new replacement lamp (Genuine Phillips) did not increase the brightness where is used to be. Also there's a yellow area on the top/right side of the screen which is a tell-tale sign the optical block is failing. It also seems like my HD picture is fuzzy although I'm not sure it's an optical block problem.

The extended warranty/replacement program ended mid-last year but Sony is still honoring replacement TV's at a discounted price. In doing a search I didn't even know the below 5+ year old AVS Forum thread for my model set even existed. There's some real good info toward the end of this thread on replacements and reps from "Sonylistens" are monitoring, along with participating, in this thread. So I sent an email to Sonylistens from info on page 504, post 15098, as can be seen below.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/889226/official-sony-kds-xxa3000-owners-thread/15090

 

So last week I made a deal with the Sony reps on buying a Sony 55" KDL55HX750 for $750 plus tax which is half the sale price of $1,500. I didn't like the idea in stepping down in size (54 1/2" diag vs 60") but they only offered 2 models as a replacement and I chose the better one. The 55HX750 has all the "bells & whistles" including 3D (probably won't use), 240Hz, motion-flow, LED backlit, wifi, internet downloads/movies, etc.. It still has the matte screen (rare anymore) which I wanted anyhow to cut down on glare but it also makes the picture a little less clear. Just hope the viewing angle isn't narrow but it has a swivel stand. I shouldn't have read every review I could after the purchase and only hoping for a much better HD picture with this set. I'm sure it won't be up to the quality of my KDS-60A3000 when new but it has to be better than what I'm watching now.

 

http://store.sony.com/p/55%22-Class-%2854.6%22-diag.%29-HX750-Internet-TV/en/p/KDL55HX750

 

It should be noted that Sony does make you "jump threw some hoops" in purchasing a replacement set. Once they make you an offer by phone you only have 7 days to accept it or it's void. I also had to take a photo of my screen problems, along with removing the model/SN sticker off the back, and mail both to them. I used certified mail and once received they have to verify the screen problem from the photo which can be a copy. I just called and the problem is verified while my new set will be shipped by Feb 11. The shipper (Ceva Logistics) just sets the new set up to make sure it works, doesn't do any of the actual wiring/connections, and they don't remove the old set since it's yours to keep or dispose of.

 

My communcations with Sony were positve and rather than throwing a fit about these problems I built up all the other Sony equipment I have along with their excellent reliability. This may have helped my cause in receiving a good deal on a replacement TV for a program which was supposed to expire last year.

 

A couple years ago I disassembled the whole top half of my set and cleaned it. I'm sure it probably needs it again if I'm even thinking about keeping it. A few weeks ago I also ordered/received a brand new Genuine Phillips XL-5200 replacement lamp w/new housing from Newegg for $86 w/free shipping. I'm going to have to determine quickly if I'm going to send it back or install it.

 

Actually my 1st choice of replacement TV's would be a Panasonic 60" Plasma. But in accepting the Sony 55" LCD/LED I'll just have to see how much I like it and what my other options if not satisfied with it. I will be saving about $800-$900 in accepting the Sony compared to buying the Panasonic.

 

Just thought I'd pass this along and know Phil & SJ have the same type Sony sets as mine.

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Thanks for all the info, Phil. Good to know that Sony is still willing to compensate end-users somehow.

I have a dilemma on my hands, however. My optical block in the KDS55A3000 is starting to go bad. The top right and bottom right corners of the screen now have a yellow tint, so the blue LCoS filter has gone dark in those locations. The set is still very watchable, as these yellow areas are only a couple inches in diameter.

But I'm not sure I want to replace it with another Sony, and I'm not that excited about an LED/LCD screen anyway. If I were to replace it, I'd be looking at a Panasonic plasma.

I'll probably keep this one going until the optical block finally dies, then I'll decide.
Thanks for all the info, Phil. Good to know that Sony is still willing to compensate end-users somehow.

I have a dilemma on my hands, however. My optical block in the KDS55A3000 is starting to go bad. The top right and bottom right corners of the screen now have a yellow tint, so the blue LCoS filter has gone dark in those locations. The set is still very watchable, as these yellow areas are only a couple inches in diameter.

But I'm not sure I want to replace it with another Sony, and I'm not that excited about an LED/LCD screen anyway. If I were to replace it, I'd be looking at a Panasonic plasma.

I'll probably keep this one going until the optical block finally dies, then I'll decide.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Feb 1, 2013 5:32:50 PM
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Master

Hey SJ, here's a couple links on rebuilding optical blocks I've been saving for over a year and maybe you've already seen them.

 

Note on this link at the top for "Third Party Optical Block Rebuilders" (John Benton). Not a bad deal on rebuilding one for $199-241 with a 6-month warranty. Only problem is the guy is in Connecticut which is a little ways from Texas but you only pay for shipping one-way. Still the owner's going to be doing a lot of work in removing/re-installing the optical block itself.

 

https://sites.google.com/site/sonylcdrptvproblems/sonykdf-55wf655opticalblockreplacement#TOC-Third-p...

 

This below guy/video is great the way the he repairs this optical block so quick and bet you could handle it. Bet I might also be able to do this repair since his directions are so explicit. Only problem is can owners still find the part(s) he's replacing?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=ULoP2nNPOjn_Y&v=oP2nNPOjn_Y

 

Good luck.

 

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Hey SJ, here's a couple links on rebuilding optical blocks I've been saving for over a year and maybe you've already seen them.

 

Note on this link at the top for "Third Party Optical Block Rebuilders" (John Benton). Not a bad deal on rebuilding one for $199-241 with a 6-month warranty. Only problem is the guy is in Connecticut which is a little ways from Texas but you only pay for shipping one-way. Still the owner's going to be doing a lot of work in removing/re-installing the optical block itself.

 

https://sites.google.com/site/sonylcdrptvproblems/sonykdf-55wf655opticalblockreplacement#TOC-Third-party-optical-block-rebuilders

 

This below guy/video is great the way the he repairs this optical block so quick and bet you could handle it. Bet I might also be able to do this repair since his directions are so explicit. Only problem is can owners still find the part(s) he's replacing?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=ULoP2nNPOjn_Y&v=oP2nNPOjn_Y

 

Good luck.

 

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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S.J. must be getting old.  That was Uni's post.  I'm Phil.Smiley Very Happy  Just kidding.

 

As I think I stated earlier...somewhere....our last replacement of the optical block in our SXRD 55 incher took place just before that extended warranty period ran out.  I have continued to run it in the power saving mode.  A bit dimmer but not so much that I can't make up for it with the calibration controls.  So far.....no more stains have show up.  A reliefe for sure.  I did notice the picture dimming a bit so I pulled the old projection lamp and put in our replacement that I've been keeping in reserve.  Doing that brought it back to just as good as new.  So....unless I dug up the old photos of the stains that occurred before....I really don't have a case.  I'm just not into doing that sort of thing.  Sony has never given me any static at all over the warranty work.  All told we had that block replaced three times so we're on number 4, counting the original.  We've had it since September of 2006.

 

Sounds like you've worked out a nice deal, Uni.  That's good news.  I don't know all the background on the development of this particular design of TV set.  I did hear (or read) rumors that the company brought it to market while being fully aware of the flaws.  If true I'd say it deserved the bad publicity it got.  But....in our case....I cannot say that Sony did not do everything possible to make things right for us.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher

S.J. must be getting old.  That was Uni's post.  I'm Phil.Smiley Very Happy  Just kidding.

 

As I think I stated earlier...somewhere....our last replacement of the optical block in our SXRD 55 incher took place just before that extended warranty period ran out.  I have continued to run it in the power saving mode.  A bit dimmer but not so much that I can't make up for it with the calibration controls.  So far.....no more stains have show up.  A reliefe for sure.  I did notice the picture dimming a bit so I pulled the old projection lamp and put in our replacement that I've been keeping in reserve.  Doing that brought it back to just as good as new.  So....unless I dug up the old photos of the stains that occurred before....I really don't have a case.  I'm just not into doing that sort of thing.  Sony has never given me any static at all over the warranty work.  All told we had that block replaced three times so we're on number 4, counting the original.  We've had it since September of 2006.

 

Sounds like you've worked out a nice deal, Uni.  That's good news.  I don't know all the background on the development of this particular design of TV set.  I did hear (or read) rumors that the company brought it to market while being fully aware of the flaws.  If true I'd say it deserved the bad publicity it got.  But....in our case....I cannot say that Sony did not do everything possible to make things right for us.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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hpmsrm wrote:

S.J. must be getting old.  That was Uni's post.  I'm Phil.Smiley Very Happy  Just kidding.


 

Ya, I saw that well after the 1-hour edit time limit.  I am getting old, LOL.  Sorry Uni, and thanks for posting the info.

 

But in all seriousness, I think it's because everyone's name is the same bright green.  When they're all the same color like that they get interchanged in my mind unless I'm paying close attention.  I miss the days where we were all different colors.  We don't even notice rank changes anymore.

 

 


hpmsrm wrote:

S.J. must be getting old.  That was Uni's post.  I'm Phil.Smiley Very Happy  Just kidding.


 

Ya, I saw that well after the 1-hour edit time limit.  I am getting old, LOL.  Sorry Uni, and thanks for posting the info.

 

But in all seriousness, I think it's because everyone's name is the same bright green.  When they're all the same color like that they get interchanged in my mind unless I'm paying close attention.  I miss the days where we were all different colors.  We don't even notice rank changes anymore.

 

 

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Hey SJ, no problem, YW, and have to agree all green names look the same. I also miss seeing the different colors for different ranks and too bad we don't notice raises in rank or give congrats anymore.

 

Phil, if your TV is working fine I sure don't blame you for not doing anything with the replacement program. Sony support has been good to me too and my request for replacing my TV wasn't any type of complaint but just a request to replace a TV with a known optical block problem.

 

I purchased my KDS60A3000 in early 2008 and it's a 2007 model. I'm not so sure these later models, which were only 1-2 years newer than yours, had the optical blocks fail as fast since I'm on the original one and you're on your 4th. If Sony would have designed these sets to make it easier to clean the fan/blades for cooling the extremely hot lamp I'm not so sure my optical block would be failing now. I've tried to stick a small hose taped to the edging tool on my shop vac through the cover grate and it's impossible to get the dirt off of the fan/blades. I saw once where you said you cleaned your fan and did you have to take the whole side/back cover off to do this? Believe mine has 13 screws in it and have never done it.

 

Guess I'll just have to wait and see how much I like the picture on the Sony LCD/LED. I read one review on the KDL55HX750 which said the viewing angle is narrow. That's the last thing I need since I watch TV all the time while sitting at an angle to it from my computer desk. Reason I wanted a plasma (Sony no longer makes them) which have no problems with viewing angle. Sure it has a swivel stand but are you going to be turning a big TV all the time with a bunch of cables attached to it? It does have 4 HDMI inputs but there's only 2 on the back and then 2 on the side. I use 3 HDMI inputs on my current set so will I have a HDMI cable sticking right out of the side? And sure hope I can adjust the "soap opera" effect you get with a LCD out of the picture through the settings. Sound pretty optimistic/excited about my new set, huh? LOL, and I'll just have to wait and see...

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Hey SJ, no problem, YW, and have to agree all green names look the same. I also miss seeing the different colors for different ranks and too bad we don't notice raises in rank or give congrats anymore.

 

Phil, if your TV is working fine I sure don't blame you for not doing anything with the replacement program. Sony support has been good to me too and my request for replacing my TV wasn't any type of complaint but just a request to replace a TV with a known optical block problem.

 

I purchased my KDS60A3000 in early 2008 and it's a 2007 model. I'm not so sure these later models, which were only 1-2 years newer than yours, had the optical blocks fail as fast since I'm on the original one and you're on your 4th. If Sony would have designed these sets to make it easier to clean the fan/blades for cooling the extremely hot lamp I'm not so sure my optical block would be failing now. I've tried to stick a small hose taped to the edging tool on my shop vac through the cover grate and it's impossible to get the dirt off of the fan/blades. I saw once where you said you cleaned your fan and did you have to take the whole side/back cover off to do this? Believe mine has 13 screws in it and have never done it.

 

Guess I'll just have to wait and see how much I like the picture on the Sony LCD/LED. I read one review on the KDL55HX750 which said the viewing angle is narrow. That's the last thing I need since I watch TV all the time while sitting at an angle to it from my computer desk. Reason I wanted a plasma (Sony no longer makes them) which have no problems with viewing angle. Sure it has a swivel stand but are you going to be turning a big TV all the time with a bunch of cables attached to it? It does have 4 HDMI inputs but there's only 2 on the back and then 2 on the side. I use 3 HDMI inputs on my current set so will I have a HDMI cable sticking right out of the side? And sure hope I can adjust the "soap opera" effect you get with a LCD out of the picture through the settings. Sound pretty optimistic/excited about my new set, huh? LOL, and I'll just have to wait and see...

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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With the newer, wider rank bands (and the field promotions for some of us) has anyone leveled lately?

With the newer, wider rank bands (and the field promotions for some of us) has anyone leveled lately?

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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I'm kind of slow Jeffer.  Ya lost me.  What are you referring to?

 

I only removed the back of our Sony once to clean the cooling system.  The other times I did it when the service guy was here to replace the optical block and had the back off.

 

I'm going to guess that you'll enjoy that new LCD/LED set, Uni.  If we were buying today I really don't know which system I'd choose.....plasma or LCD/LED.  I've kind of been waiting until they introduce larger screens with the OLED technology.  Sony used to have a small screen set using OLED's but it was prohibitively expensive.  But I don't know if our old one will make it until then.

 

Remember that test/calibration video that the HD Movie channel used to transmit during the wee hours on Saturdays?   I used to have that recorded on our DVR but when we got our 2250 DVR with the larger HD we, of course, lost that recording.  Now I have not been able to find any times for that calibration video.  Maybe they dropped it.  Anyone know?

Wouldn't it be a nice service if, instead of a lot of that other junk, AT&T could use just one channel to transmit something like that continuously?   If they already do.....where is it?

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher

I'm kind of slow Jeffer.  Ya lost me.  What are you referring to?

 

I only removed the back of our Sony once to clean the cooling system.  The other times I did it when the service guy was here to replace the optical block and had the back off.

 

I'm going to guess that you'll enjoy that new LCD/LED set, Uni.  If we were buying today I really don't know which system I'd choose.....plasma or LCD/LED.  I've kind of been waiting until they introduce larger screens with the OLED technology.  Sony used to have a small screen set using OLED's but it was prohibitively expensive.  But I don't know if our old one will make it until then.

 

Remember that test/calibration video that the HD Movie channel used to transmit during the wee hours on Saturdays?   I used to have that recorded on our DVR but when we got our 2250 DVR with the larger HD we, of course, lost that recording.  Now I have not been able to find any times for that calibration video.  Maybe they dropped it.  Anyone know?

Wouldn't it be a nice service if, instead of a lot of that other junk, AT&T could use just one channel to transmit something like that continuously?   If they already do.....where is it?

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Thanks for the support Phil on probably liking my new Sony TV when I receive it. It has to be better than the picture I'm watching now and looking forward to not watching things in the dark. As with anything I tend to pick things apart beforehand and only time will tell if I'm satisfied with it.

 

The test patterns used to be shown on HDNet (1105) early some Sat mornings. The schedule they were shown became more and more sparse then HDNet was supposed to be moved to the "Premium Tier" but it wasn't. Then finally the test patterns were dropped altogether from HDNet which was a shame since they were used by SomeJoe's great basic TV calibrating thread.

 

I even wrote/emailed the network owner (Mark C.) and told him how much the forum users appreciated the test patterns, also mentioned UU, and asked for them back. My email was never answered and as usual with most networks anymore only programming which brought in money was offered.

 

About this time last year HDNet was sold and became AXS TV which shows a lot of music concerts along with mixed martial arts. Not a station I watch but there's a lot of users who do. There was also some channel shuffling by U-verse where HDNet 1105 became AXS TV 1106 and 1105 became UNIHD (Universal HD/NBC Universal).

 

Here's the post I made about HDNet moving to the "Premium Tier" as it was supposed to but never did. Interesting the 1st link to HDNet now takes you AXS TV. And the link to SJ's TV calibration thread takes you nowhere since all links to forum posts/threads were lost during/after the merge.

 

http://forums.att.com/t5/Receivers-Battery-Backup/HDNet-Test-Patterns-Record-Sat-if-you-don-t-have-H...

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Thanks for the support Phil on probably liking my new Sony TV when I receive it. It has to be better than the picture I'm watching now and looking forward to not watching things in the dark. As with anything I tend to pick things apart beforehand and only time will tell if I'm satisfied with it.

 

The test patterns used to be shown on HDNet (1105) early some Sat mornings. The schedule they were shown became more and more sparse then HDNet was supposed to be moved to the "Premium Tier" but it wasn't. Then finally the test patterns were dropped altogether from HDNet which was a shame since they were used by SomeJoe's great basic TV calibrating thread.

 

I even wrote/emailed the network owner (Mark C.) and told him how much the forum users appreciated the test patterns, also mentioned UU, and asked for them back. My email was never answered and as usual with most networks anymore only programming which brought in money was offered.

 

About this time last year HDNet was sold and became AXS TV which shows a lot of music concerts along with mixed martial arts. Not a station I watch but there's a lot of users who do. There was also some channel shuffling by U-verse where HDNet 1105 became AXS TV 1106 and 1105 became UNIHD (Universal HD/NBC Universal).

 

Here's the post I made about HDNet moving to the "Premium Tier" as it was supposed to but never did. Interesting the 1st link to HDNet now takes you AXS TV. And the link to SJ's TV calibration thread takes you nowhere since all links to forum posts/threads were lost during/after the merge.

 

http://forums.att.com/t5/Receivers-Battery-Backup/HDNet-Test-Patterns-Record-Sat-if-you-don-t-have-HD-Prem-Tier/m-p/2178425#M16050

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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hpmsrm wrote:

Wouldn't it be a nice service if, instead of a lot of that other junk, AT&T could use just one channel to transmit something like that continuously?   If they already do.....where is it?


 

It would probably be easier and quicker if they put the calibration video in the system as a free VOD selection.  It's only 10 minutes long, wouldn't take up much space on the servers at all, and doesn't need a dedicated encoder.

 

I wonder if they'd actually take this as a suggestion and do it?  It would seem so easy to do.

 


hpmsrm wrote:

Wouldn't it be a nice service if, instead of a lot of that other junk, AT&T could use just one channel to transmit something like that continuously?   If they already do.....where is it?


 

It would probably be easier and quicker if they put the calibration video in the system as a free VOD selection.  It's only 10 minutes long, wouldn't take up much space on the servers at all, and doesn't need a dedicated encoder.

 

I wonder if they'd actually take this as a suggestion and do it?  It would seem so easy to do.

 

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ACE - Master

Well...it's my own fault that I don't have a copy of the calibration video.  If I had had my head on straight I could have burned a copy to my desktop HD and then burn a DVD.  Would not have been as convenient to access but, at least, I still have it.  Now I don't.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher

Well...it's my own fault that I don't have a copy of the calibration video.  If I had had my head on straight I could have burned a copy to my desktop HD and then burn a DVD.  Would not have been as convenient to access but, at least, I still have it.  Now I don't.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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SomeJoe7777 wrote:

hpmsrm wrote:

Wouldn't it be a nice service if, instead of a lot of that other junk, AT&T could use just one channel to transmit something like that continuously?   If they already do.....where is it?


 

It would probably be easier and quicker if they put the calibration video in the system as a free VOD selection.  It's only 10 minutes long, wouldn't take up much space on the servers at all, and doesn't need a dedicated encoder.

 

I wonder if they'd actually take this as a suggestion and do it?  It would seem so easy to do.

 


Excellent idea.  Why don't you either PM Alex or post it in ACE - U-verse Experts just to make sure it's visible.


SomeJoe7777 wrote:

hpmsrm wrote:

Wouldn't it be a nice service if, instead of a lot of that other junk, AT&T could use just one channel to transmit something like that continuously?   If they already do.....where is it?


 

It would probably be easier and quicker if they put the calibration video in the system as a free VOD selection.  It's only 10 minutes long, wouldn't take up much space on the servers at all, and doesn't need a dedicated encoder.

 

I wonder if they'd actually take this as a suggestion and do it?  It would seem so easy to do.

 


Excellent idea.  Why don't you either PM Alex or post it in ACE - U-verse Experts just to make sure it's visible.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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hpmsrm wrote:

I'm kind of slow Jeffer.  Ya lost me.  What are you referring to?

 

...


Sorry, I was responding to this:

 


Uniblurb3 wrote:

Hey SJ, no problem, YW, and have to agree all green names look the same. I also miss seeing the different colors for different ranks and too bad we don't notice raises in rank or give congrats anymore. 

 

...



hpmsrm wrote:

I'm kind of slow Jeffer.  Ya lost me.  What are you referring to?

 

...


Sorry, I was responding to this:

 


Uniblurb3 wrote:

Hey SJ, no problem, YW, and have to agree all green names look the same. I also miss seeing the different colors for different ranks and too bad we don't notice raises in rank or give congrats anymore. 

 

...


*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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ACE - Master


JefferMC wrote:

hpmsrm wrote:

I'm kind of slow Jeffer.  Ya lost me.  What are you referring to?

 

...


Sorry, I was responding to this:

 


Uniblurb3 wrote:

Hey SJ, no problem, YW, and have to agree all green names look the same. I also miss seeing the different colors for different ranks and too bad we don't notice raises in rank or give congrats anymore. 

 

...



Oh.  OK.  I get confused easily.Smiley Very Happy

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher


JefferMC wrote:

hpmsrm wrote:

I'm kind of slow Jeffer.  Ya lost me.  What are you referring to?

 

...


Sorry, I was responding to this:

 


Uniblurb3 wrote:

Hey SJ, no problem, YW, and have to agree all green names look the same. I also miss seeing the different colors for different ranks and too bad we don't notice raises in rank or give congrats anymore. 

 

...



Oh.  OK.  I get confused easily.Smiley Very Happy

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Feb 5, 2013 7:09:58 AM
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ACE - Expert

It would have helped if I'd have quoted the post the first time. :-)

It would have helped if I'd have quoted the post the first time. :-)

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Master

Well we might as well take this full-circle Jeffer. I know what you mean in your post about wider rank bands/widths, since less rank categories, and also about some being promoted up to the next rank when this changed, along w/the ACE promotions for some. But what do you mean when you say, "has anyone leveled lately"? Thanks.

 


JefferMC wrote:

With the newer, wider rank bands (and the field promotions for some of us) has anyone leveled lately?


 

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Well we might as well take this full-circle Jeffer. I know what you mean in your post about wider rank bands/widths, since less rank categories, and also about some being promoted up to the next rank when this changed, along w/the ACE promotions for some. But what do you mean when you say, "has anyone leveled lately"? Thanks.

 


JefferMC wrote:

With the newer, wider rank bands (and the field promotions for some of us) has anyone leveled lately?


 

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Feb 5, 2013 10:26:37 AM
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Uniblurb3 wrote:

.... But what do you mean when you say, "has anyone leveled lately"? Thanks.


Well, I meant that as a result of those changes we may not have had anyone go up a rank, or "leveled."  I suppose "leveled" (short for "leveled-up") is a gaming term that not everyone would be familiar with.  Smiley Embarassed It isn't in Merriam-Webster after all. Smiley Wink

 

The original point remains that we wouldn't know.

 

 


Uniblurb3 wrote:

.... But what do you mean when you say, "has anyone leveled lately"? Thanks.


Well, I meant that as a result of those changes we may not have had anyone go up a rank, or "leveled."  I suppose "leveled" (short for "leveled-up") is a gaming term that not everyone would be familiar with.  Smiley Embarassed It isn't in Merriam-Webster after all. Smiley Wink

 

The original point remains that we wouldn't know.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Master

JefferMC wrote:

Uniblurb3 wrote:

.... But what do you mean when you say, "has anyone leveled lately"? Thanks.


Well, I meant that as a result of those changes we may not have had anyone go up a rank, or "leveled."  I suppose "leveled" (short for "leveled-up") is a gaming term that not everyone would be familiar with.  Smiley Embarassed It isn't in Merriam-Webster after all. Smiley Wink

 

The original point remains that we wouldn't know.

 

 


 

Ahh, now I understand and wouldn't recognize the term "leveled" in that use since I don't game. Kind of thought you might have meant leveled within a wider rank, or kind of stuck, where the raise in rank is now further away.

 

Agree, we wouldn't have a clue if some were raised in rank since we've "gone green".

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

JefferMC wrote:

Uniblurb3 wrote:

.... But what do you mean when you say, "has anyone leveled lately"? Thanks.


Well, I meant that as a result of those changes we may not have had anyone go up a rank, or "leveled."  I suppose "leveled" (short for "leveled-up") is a gaming term that not everyone would be familiar with.  Smiley Embarassed It isn't in Merriam-Webster after all. Smiley Wink

 

The original point remains that we wouldn't know.

 

 


 

Ahh, now I understand and wouldn't recognize the term "leveled" in that use since I don't game. Kind of thought you might have meant leveled within a wider rank, or kind of stuck, where the raise in rank is now further away.

 

Agree, we wouldn't have a clue if some were raised in rank since we've "gone green".

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Master

So I received a call on Mon from Ceva Logistics saying they would be delivering my new replacement Sony 55" KDL55HX750 LCD/LED backlite HDTV on Tues. I knew I would soon be short of room for it so I partially disassembled my Sony 60" KDS60A3000 which included removing the front screen. Sure enough the inside was covered with dust/pollen along with some wood stove smoke.

 

So ran a shop-vac on the whole inside front housing part while putting a protective plastic cover over the optic block lens. They say not to use any alcohol based window cleaners but I saw nothing special about the large mirror so had to use windex on it to clean it off. The mirror also took some polishing with a soft cloth to get any streaks out. Then used a real small amount of liquid dish soap w/hot water to clean the inside/outside of the front screen I had off and rinsed it with clear warm water on a real soft rag. Then did something I've never dared to attempt before and cleaned the coated optic block lens with a new Purosol lens cloth and Zeiss lens cleaner I ordered. I made sure I sprayed the lens cloth, instead of the lens itself, which cleaned the lens up real good. But the darn Purosol lens cloth left a little fibers on the lens itself so had to use a lens brush to get them off. I also cleaned the whole outside of the set.

 

I only wish I could remove the whole housing to clean the fan/inside of the back part but even with every screw removed front/back I couldn't get the large whole housing off. Ended up using a small hose taped into the end of the shop-vac tube with a small artist brush to get off as much dust as I could on the inside back fan and lamp areas. I will say the picture looked a whole lot better once assembled but didn't put the new $85 lamp in it yet. I probably should have since in using instructions from the AVS Forum I have 5,000 hours on the current lamp. Know they're supposed to be good for up to 8,000 hours but a new one will give you a brighter picture.

 

Sony had told me when they delivered the new TV the deliver guys would unpack it, plug it in, and make sure it at least turns on/works. But the Ceva rep who called said all they do is deliver the TV in the box and Sony didn't include the "white glove" special setup which costs more. Nice, and I was hoping the deliver guys would move the old DLP into our spare bedroom while helping put the new one at least on my stand.

 

So Tues at noon only one delivery guy shows up and I help him carry the new set into the house. He has me sign a paper which said the set was delivered in good shape. I saw one bottom corner of the box smashed in just a little and told him I was not signing for it until I saw it was not damaged. He told me the Sony TV's are packed so well that little dent in the corner is probably nothing but we unpacked it and it wasn't damaged. I was kind of stuck with the old Sony on the stand, wife was strong enough to help me move it, so told him I'd give him $20 to help move it onto the dresser in the bedroom which was a tight fit. He said he was not supposed to do that but did for $ and left.

 

After assembling the stand, and setting it up, the new 55" Sony does have a great picture. And this is the 1st time I've been able to view the TV in a bright room for years. Now I will say the LCD soap opera/video effect on some programming is going to have to take a little time to get used to. There are so many different lighting/motion features on this set I'm going to have to do some fine tuning to get it just right, or the best it can be. For some reason a lot of the skin tones seem to be washed out/too bright and I'll need to look for a lighting/contrast adjustment on this.

 

My biggest disappointment is this new Sony 55" (actually 54 1/2" diag.) set is it looks absolutely puny on my stand compared to my Sony 60". Main reason, besides size difference, is the speakers are in the back so there is 6 1/2" less spacing on the bottom/front from my old set w/speakers in the front. While the sound is not all that bad I don't like some of the tinty sound of the speakers on many programs and have to turn it up louder. Most new sets are like this w/speakers on the back, most say they're going to use the HTS anyhow for sound, but I don't use my Sony HTS except for Blu-Ray or DVD movies.

 

As far as size differences go, between 54 1/2" vs true 60" diagonal size (5 1/2" smaller), the new set screen is 4 1/2" narrower and 2 3/8" shorter. I am not used to looking down on a set either while standing and almost thought about putting something on under the stand to make it higher. But in sitting on my couch 13' away the picture is right at eye level.

 

While it's nice of Sony to offer me a replacement set at a discounted price it's beyond me why Sony forces you to downsize to only 55" of the 2 sets offered when you had 60" to begin with. I was willing to pay more for a 60" Sony but of course their 60" sets are overpriced and they don't carry/make plasma sets anymore.

 

After 2 days of watching this set I'm still considering boxing it up, selling it, and getting the 60" Panasonic Plasma set I wanted to begin with as can be seen below.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-VIERA-TC-P60ST50-60-Inch-Plasma/dp/B00752VKBY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid...

 

I thought after the Super Bowl prices of HDTV's would drop in price but they haven't. In fact they've gone up in price and I saw this set selling for $1,500 on lots of sites w/free shipping mid-Jan compared to around $1,700 they're selling for now. I looked at the price history of this set and one site was selling it for $1,200 but bet that didn't include free shipping. Still one heck of a deal and I should have jumped on it but never saw it.

 

I may have to just live with what I have for now and try to get used to it. I do like the matte screen finish (most don't) which cuts down on reflection/glare and haven't found the viewing angle to be bad at all as was reported in a review.

 

Sorry for the book but wanted to report it as I see it and you'll never satisfy a perfectionist. Smiley Wink

 

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

So I received a call on Mon from Ceva Logistics saying they would be delivering my new replacement Sony 55" KDL55HX750 LCD/LED backlite HDTV on Tues. I knew I would soon be short of room for it so I partially disassembled my Sony 60" KDS60A3000 which included removing the front screen. Sure enough the inside was covered with dust/pollen along with some wood stove smoke.

 

So ran a shop-vac on the whole inside front housing part while putting a protective plastic cover over the optic block lens. They say not to use any alcohol based window cleaners but I saw nothing special about the large mirror so had to use windex on it to clean it off. The mirror also took some polishing with a soft cloth to get any streaks out. Then used a real small amount of liquid dish soap w/hot water to clean the inside/outside of the front screen I had off and rinsed it with clear warm water on a real soft rag. Then did something I've never dared to attempt before and cleaned the coated optic block lens with a new Purosol lens cloth and Zeiss lens cleaner I ordered. I made sure I sprayed the lens cloth, instead of the lens itself, which cleaned the lens up real good. But the darn Purosol lens cloth left a little fibers on the lens itself so had to use a lens brush to get them off. I also cleaned the whole outside of the set.

 

I only wish I could remove the whole housing to clean the fan/inside of the back part but even with every screw removed front/back I couldn't get the large whole housing off. Ended up using a small hose taped into the end of the shop-vac tube with a small artist brush to get off as much dust as I could on the inside back fan and lamp areas. I will say the picture looked a whole lot better once assembled but didn't put the new $85 lamp in it yet. I probably should have since in using instructions from the AVS Forum I have 5,000 hours on the current lamp. Know they're supposed to be good for up to 8,000 hours but a new one will give you a brighter picture.

 

Sony had told me when they delivered the new TV the deliver guys would unpack it, plug it in, and make sure it at least turns on/works. But the Ceva rep who called said all they do is deliver the TV in the box and Sony didn't include the "white glove" special setup which costs more. Nice, and I was hoping the deliver guys would move the old DLP into our spare bedroom while helping put the new one at least on my stand.

 

So Tues at noon only one delivery guy shows up and I help him carry the new set into the house. He has me sign a paper which said the set was delivered in good shape. I saw one bottom corner of the box smashed in just a little and told him I was not signing for it until I saw it was not damaged. He told me the Sony TV's are packed so well that little dent in the corner is probably nothing but we unpacked it and it wasn't damaged. I was kind of stuck with the old Sony on the stand, wife was strong enough to help me move it, so told him I'd give him $20 to help move it onto the dresser in the bedroom which was a tight fit. He said he was not supposed to do that but did for $ and left.

 

After assembling the stand, and setting it up, the new 55" Sony does have a great picture. And this is the 1st time I've been able to view the TV in a bright room for years. Now I will say the LCD soap opera/video effect on some programming is going to have to take a little time to get used to. There are so many different lighting/motion features on this set I'm going to have to do some fine tuning to get it just right, or the best it can be. For some reason a lot of the skin tones seem to be washed out/too bright and I'll need to look for a lighting/contrast adjustment on this.

 

My biggest disappointment is this new Sony 55" (actually 54 1/2" diag.) set is it looks absolutely puny on my stand compared to my Sony 60". Main reason, besides size difference, is the speakers are in the back so there is 6 1/2" less spacing on the bottom/front from my old set w/speakers in the front. While the sound is not all that bad I don't like some of the tinty sound of the speakers on many programs and have to turn it up louder. Most new sets are like this w/speakers on the back, most say they're going to use the HTS anyhow for sound, but I don't use my Sony HTS except for Blu-Ray or DVD movies.

 

As far as size differences go, between 54 1/2" vs true 60" diagonal size (5 1/2" smaller), the new set screen is 4 1/2" narrower and 2 3/8" shorter. I am not used to looking down on a set either while standing and almost thought about putting something on under the stand to make it higher. But in sitting on my couch 13' away the picture is right at eye level.

 

While it's nice of Sony to offer me a replacement set at a discounted price it's beyond me why Sony forces you to downsize to only 55" of the 2 sets offered when you had 60" to begin with. I was willing to pay more for a 60" Sony but of course their 60" sets are overpriced and they don't carry/make plasma sets anymore.

 

After 2 days of watching this set I'm still considering boxing it up, selling it, and getting the 60" Panasonic Plasma set I wanted to begin with as can be seen below.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-VIERA-TC-P60ST50-60-Inch-Plasma/dp/B00752VKBY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360873110&sr=8-1&keywords=Pansonic+60%26%2334%3B+plasma+TV

 

I thought after the Super Bowl prices of HDTV's would drop in price but they haven't. In fact they've gone up in price and I saw this set selling for $1,500 on lots of sites w/free shipping mid-Jan compared to around $1,700 they're selling for now. I looked at the price history of this set and one site was selling it for $1,200 but bet that didn't include free shipping. Still one heck of a deal and I should have jumped on it but never saw it.

 

I may have to just live with what I have for now and try to get used to it. I do like the matte screen finish (most don't) which cuts down on reflection/glare and haven't found the viewing angle to be bad at all as was reported in a review.

 

Sorry for the book but wanted to report it as I see it and you'll never satisfy a perfectionist. Smiley Wink

 

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Uni, I should probably know this but help me a bit.   What are you referring to when you say "soap-opera video effect"?  We have our 55" Sony rear projection set in the living room and we have LCD/LED sets in the kitchen and the computer room.  I've performed extensive and very careful adjustments on all three sets using techniques I learned from the engineers at the TV stations where I've worked.  I've always considered myself to be pretty exacting where picture and audio quality are concerned.  So now I'm wondering what I'm missing here. Can you clue me in?Smiley Wink

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher

Uni, I should probably know this but help me a bit.   What are you referring to when you say "soap-opera video effect"?  We have our 55" Sony rear projection set in the living room and we have LCD/LED sets in the kitchen and the computer room.  I've performed extensive and very careful adjustments on all three sets using techniques I learned from the engineers at the TV stations where I've worked.  I've always considered myself to be pretty exacting where picture and audio quality are concerned.  So now I'm wondering what I'm missing here. Can you clue me in?Smiley Wink

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Well Phil, back in 2009 I purchased 2 Insignia LCD HDTV's (Best Buy brand). I wanted to make sure I was going to get the best picture on these 32" and 22" sets so made sure they were 1080p w/120Hz refresh rates which I paid more for. Right away I noticed many of the programs, even film/movies, looked like a video or what I found out later to be the "Soap Opera Effect". I had no idea what I was viewing but just knew it looked nothing natural like I was watching on my Sony KDS60A3000.

 

So I contacted SomeJoe asking him about this and sure wish I could find his reply. I'll try to remember what he said and hopefully he'll correct me if wrong. When viewing programs with a high-refresh rate TV there are frames added in between frames to cut down on any type of motion blur. In doing so it makes programs look much like video because some/many people can see these frames added in. I believe SJ said the human eye can only view up to 63 frames per second so when you have refresh rates higher than 60Hz (120Hz, 240Hz, and even higher) this makes the picture look all the more like video the faster the refresh rate since more frames are added in. Believe he also said many people won't notice much difference between 720p compared to 1080p but don't hold me to this.

 

Actually I did some minor adjustments to my Insignia sets buy not much. Believe I've adjusted to the video soap opera effect (SOE) through watching them more. But believe the bigger the set the more you'll notice this effect. Now my new Sony 55" HX750 LCD/LED has a 240Hz refresh rate enhanced by "Motionflow XR 480". I notice no motion blurring at all but do notice the video effect some.

 

Supposedly you can make all kinds of adjustments to remove this effect and many say to disable/turn off any "motion interpolation features" (120Hz, 240Hz, etc), motionflow technology, etc.. I've yet to experiment with this but I'm going to. Believe you can also change your screen mode which may make a difference.

 

Believe film is shot at 24 fps and most will set their Blu-Ray players to this setting for watching movies.

 

Here's a pretty good article which explains the soap opera effect. Maybe SJ will want to clean up my explanation some. Smiley Wink

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-33620_3-57410231-278/the-soap-opera-effect-when-your-tv-tries-to-be-smarte...

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Well Phil, back in 2009 I purchased 2 Insignia LCD HDTV's (Best Buy brand). I wanted to make sure I was going to get the best picture on these 32" and 22" sets so made sure they were 1080p w/120Hz refresh rates which I paid more for. Right away I noticed many of the programs, even film/movies, looked like a video or what I found out later to be the "Soap Opera Effect". I had no idea what I was viewing but just knew it looked nothing natural like I was watching on my Sony KDS60A3000.

 

So I contacted SomeJoe asking him about this and sure wish I could find his reply. I'll try to remember what he said and hopefully he'll correct me if wrong. When viewing programs with a high-refresh rate TV there are frames added in between frames to cut down on any type of motion blur. In doing so it makes programs look much like video because some/many people can see these frames added in. I believe SJ said the human eye can only view up to 63 frames per second so when you have refresh rates higher than 60Hz (120Hz, 240Hz, and even higher) this makes the picture look all the more like video the faster the refresh rate since more frames are added in. Believe he also said many people won't notice much difference between 720p compared to 1080p but don't hold me to this.

 

Actually I did some minor adjustments to my Insignia sets buy not much. Believe I've adjusted to the video soap opera effect (SOE) through watching them more. But believe the bigger the set the more you'll notice this effect. Now my new Sony 55" HX750 LCD/LED has a 240Hz refresh rate enhanced by "Motionflow XR 480". I notice no motion blurring at all but do notice the video effect some.

 

Supposedly you can make all kinds of adjustments to remove this effect and many say to disable/turn off any "motion interpolation features" (120Hz, 240Hz, etc), motionflow technology, etc.. I've yet to experiment with this but I'm going to. Believe you can also change your screen mode which may make a difference.

 

Believe film is shot at 24 fps and most will set their Blu-Ray players to this setting for watching movies.

 

Here's a pretty good article which explains the soap opera effect. Maybe SJ will want to clean up my explanation some. Smiley Wink

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-33620_3-57410231-278/the-soap-opera-effect-when-your-tv-tries-to-be-smarter-than-you/

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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ACE - Master
Edited by hpmsrm on Feb 17, 2013 at 1:02:48 AM

Thanks for the info. Uni.   Now that you explain it I recognize the effect you're referring to.  I had just not heard of that name for it.

 

I know that sound movie film is shot at 24 frames per second.  Silent film speed was 16 fps.....as in the old 8mm home movies.  In my very early days working in television....before video tape....the movie film projectors and associated equipmen used a special shutter to compensate for the difference between 24 fps and the television 30 fps.   But I admit I have not kept up with it.  I also admit that it is an effect that I don't seem to notice or I've become so accustom to it that it just doesn't register on me. 

 

What we need is a completely new technology so that we no longer will be looking at what amounts to no more than a series of still pictures creating the illusion of motion.  Good grief.....that idea originated with Edison.  No...wait....I remember as a child having some of those children's cartoon books that you could flip the pages to create motion of the figures drawn on he page.  So....come on all geniuses out there......let's redo the whole system.

 

I read some where that the jump to 240 fps creates other problems also but I'll be darn if I can remember what they were.  The jist of the article was that 120 fps was the ideal speed.   But I'll bet that is open to disagreement.  I sure as heck don't know.

 

When I was in grade school I saw my first TV in Chicago.  Went with my pop to a medical convention....stayed in the Palmer House and across the street was a huge, multi-story department store named Carson, Pirie & Scott.   They had sets on display with huge 16 inch screens and I saw my first Flash Gordon program on one of those magic boxes.

 

When my wife and I were first married....going to college....trying to stay afloat financially....we purchased a 10" B & W Motorola table-top set....used....for $25.

 

Now here we are discussing 55 and 60 inch flat panel sets we can hang on a wall.  The other day I was waiting for my wife's medicine prescription to be refilled at WalMart and I wandered back to the tech/TV dept.  There was an 80 inch Sharp LCD/LED hanging on the wall.  HOLY COW!

 

Speaking of visible flicker......years ago my maternal grandparents lived in the Mississippi River town of Ft. Madison, Iowa.  Their electric power came from a low-head hydro electric plant on the river....which also served as part of the river navigation system.  The frequency of their power was 25 Hz....or cycles per second....as they called it in those days.   Even tungsten filament lamps visibly flickered.  Terrible to read by.  When the conversion was made to 60 Hz the power company furnished everyone with replacement appliances like refrigerators, etc.  Anything that had a motor had to be replaced.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher

Thanks for the info. Uni.   Now that you explain it I recognize the effect you're referring to.  I had just not heard of that name for it.

 

I know that sound movie film is shot at 24 frames per second.  Silent film speed was 16 fps.....as in the old 8mm home movies.  In my very early days working in television....before video tape....the movie film projectors and associated equipmen used a special shutter to compensate for the difference between 24 fps and the television 30 fps.   But I admit I have not kept up with it.  I also admit that it is an effect that I don't seem to notice or I've become so accustom to it that it just doesn't register on me. 

 

What we need is a completely new technology so that we no longer will be looking at what amounts to no more than a series of still pictures creating the illusion of motion.  Good grief.....that idea originated with Edison.  No...wait....I remember as a child having some of those children's cartoon books that you could flip the pages to create motion of the figures drawn on he page.  So....come on all geniuses out there......let's redo the whole system.

 

I read some where that the jump to 240 fps creates other problems also but I'll be darn if I can remember what they were.  The jist of the article was that 120 fps was the ideal speed.   But I'll bet that is open to disagreement.  I sure as heck don't know.

 

When I was in grade school I saw my first TV in Chicago.  Went with my pop to a medical convention....stayed in the Palmer House and across the street was a huge, multi-story department store named Carson, Pirie & Scott.   They had sets on display with huge 16 inch screens and I saw my first Flash Gordon program on one of those magic boxes.

 

When my wife and I were first married....going to college....trying to stay afloat financially....we purchased a 10" B & W Motorola table-top set....used....for $25.

 

Now here we are discussing 55 and 60 inch flat panel sets we can hang on a wall.  The other day I was waiting for my wife's medicine prescription to be refilled at WalMart and I wandered back to the tech/TV dept.  There was an 80 inch Sharp LCD/LED hanging on the wall.  HOLY COW!

 

Speaking of visible flicker......years ago my maternal grandparents lived in the Mississippi River town of Ft. Madison, Iowa.  Their electric power came from a low-head hydro electric plant on the river....which also served as part of the river navigation system.  The frequency of their power was 25 Hz....or cycles per second....as they called it in those days.   Even tungsten filament lamps visibly flickered.  Terrible to read by.  When the conversion was made to 60 Hz the power company furnished everyone with replacement appliances like refrigerators, etc.  Anything that had a motor had to be replaced.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money. .......Margaret Thatcher
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Feb 17, 2013 8:11:00 AM
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Uni has it right. All the modern TVs do motion interpolation where they create extra frames to smooth out the motion. Since film is normally shot and presented at 24Hz (24 fps), the motion interpolation increases the perceived frame rate. Many television shows were shot at 60 fields per second and have a much smoother look. When the motion interpolation is turned on, the 24fps film begins to look smooth enough that it looks like a television program that was shot at 60 fields per second (most commonly compared to soap operas, hence the name "soap opera effect").

The Sony LCoS series was unique in that it had a motion interpolation setting that struck a great balance. The "Motion Enhancer" had a "Standard" and a "High" setting. The "High" was a 96Hz setting that rendered film to be 96 fps, and would induce the soap opera effect. But the "Standard" effect was a 48Hz setting. This is enough to remove the obvious judder from 24fps, but still low enough to maintain the look of film. Unfortunately, all modern TVs no longer have a motion interpolation setting this low.

The human eye cannot perceive individual frames of motion beyond about 60-70Hz. Once the frame rate is beyond that, the human eye sees no further difference and believes that the motion is continuous. No TV in the world makes any difference if the interpolated frame rate is beyond that. 120, 240, 480 will all look exactly the same.

Film at 24 fps has always been the standard, but it's not ideal. The objective of any video presentation is to show something on-screen that is as close to real life as possible, so higher frame rates needs to become the norm. I believe James Cameron has said he will shoot Avatar 2 in either 48fps or 60fps.
Uni has it right. All the modern TVs do motion interpolation where they create extra frames to smooth out the motion. Since film is normally shot and presented at 24Hz (24 fps), the motion interpolation increases the perceived frame rate. Many television shows were shot at 60 fields per second and have a much smoother look. When the motion interpolation is turned on, the 24fps film begins to look smooth enough that it looks like a television program that was shot at 60 fields per second (most commonly compared to soap operas, hence the name "soap opera effect").

The Sony LCoS series was unique in that it had a motion interpolation setting that struck a great balance. The "Motion Enhancer" had a "Standard" and a "High" setting. The "High" was a 96Hz setting that rendered film to be 96 fps, and would induce the soap opera effect. But the "Standard" effect was a 48Hz setting. This is enough to remove the obvious judder from 24fps, but still low enough to maintain the look of film. Unfortunately, all modern TVs no longer have a motion interpolation setting this low.

The human eye cannot perceive individual frames of motion beyond about 60-70Hz. Once the frame rate is beyond that, the human eye sees no further difference and believes that the motion is continuous. No TV in the world makes any difference if the interpolated frame rate is beyond that. 120, 240, 480 will all look exactly the same.

Film at 24 fps has always been the standard, but it's not ideal. The objective of any video presentation is to show something on-screen that is as close to real life as possible, so higher frame rates needs to become the norm. I believe James Cameron has said he will shoot Avatar 2 in either 48fps or 60fps.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Edited by Uniblurb3 on Feb 17, 2013 at 12:10:20 PM

Phil, it's always interesting to hear some of the history of technology changes you've gone through in your lifetime. Also liked the piece of history about the flickering lamps/lights during your grandparents era on the Mississippi until the power company upgraded to a 60Hz power feed.

 

SJ, thanks for the excellent explanation on the motion interpolation and why the Sony LCoS series sets look so realistic. I never did change the standard setting from 48HZ so this must have been why I was in shock when 1st viewing my 120Hz LCD sets.

 

Let's talk about the extra frames added in with motion enhancers and don't they increase the picture detail to a certain extent? I remember reading an older thread on another forum where old shows like "Gunsmoke" showed detail which was never seen before this new technology. But I would think you can only increase the detail so much and the more frames per second doesn't necessarily mean more detail?

 

Guess another thing I don't understand is I thought plasma sets don't give you the "soap opera effect" like LCD/LED sets? If this is the case why do we see some plasma sets having a 600Hz refresh rate?

 

Thanks for any input to clarify these questions.

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Phil, it's always interesting to hear some of the history of technology changes you've gone through in your lifetime. Also liked the piece of history about the flickering lamps/lights during your grandparents era on the Mississippi until the power company upgraded to a 60Hz power feed.

 

SJ, thanks for the excellent explanation on the motion interpolation and why the Sony LCoS series sets look so realistic. I never did change the standard setting from 48HZ so this must have been why I was in shock when 1st viewing my 120Hz LCD sets.

 

Let's talk about the extra frames added in with motion enhancers and don't they increase the picture detail to a certain extent? I remember reading an older thread on another forum where old shows like "Gunsmoke" showed detail which was never seen before this new technology. But I would think you can only increase the detail so much and the more frames per second doesn't necessarily mean more detail?

 

Guess another thing I don't understand is I thought plasma sets don't give you the "soap opera effect" like LCD/LED sets? If this is the case why do we see some plasma sets having a 600Hz refresh rate?

 

Thanks for any input to clarify these questions.

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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The extra frames added by motion interpolation don't increase spatial detail. However, by repeating the same details more times, your brain can pick up on more picture content than it would at the lower frame rate, so there is a perception that you're seeing more detail.

As far as the "soap opera effect", the display technology doesn't really matter. Increasing the frame rate by motion interpolation will produce the same effect, regardless of display technology.
The extra frames added by motion interpolation don't increase spatial detail. However, by repeating the same details more times, your brain can pick up on more picture content than it would at the lower frame rate, so there is a perception that you're seeing more detail.

As far as the "soap opera effect", the display technology doesn't really matter. Increasing the frame rate by motion interpolation will produce the same effect, regardless of display technology.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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Thanks for the explanation SJ and makes a lot of sense. Nice to know my brain has the perception I'm seeing more detail. Smiley Wink

 

Guess I didn't realize plasma sets may also show fast motion blur and they try and correct it with motion interpolation.

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Thanks for the explanation SJ and makes a lot of sense. Nice to know my brain has the perception I'm seeing more detail. Smiley Wink

 

Guess I didn't realize plasma sets may also show fast motion blur and they try and correct it with motion interpolation.

Uniblurb3

If you get to thinking you're a person of influence, try ordering someone else's dog around.

Need help? Contact AT&T at 800-288-2020.

Re: Sony DLP TV replacement program

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