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    Posted Jul 18, 2013
    4:35:12 PM
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    Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

    I want to increase the speed of the wireless network within my home. I have the i3812V iNID outside and have the 18 mbps service. I know the service speed from AT&T cannot be increased by changing to wireless n within my home, but it should do wonders inside, So, does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

     

    Also, if I get a wireless receiver will it work on wireless n? 

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    Jul 18, 2013 5:46:12 PM
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    Edited by Wineaux on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:46:53 PM

    Yes, there is a new RG, the Motorola NVG589, that combines the outside iNID, the giant battery backup box, and the RG into one smaller box.  You'll also get Wireless N, Gigabit Ethernet, true bridgeable mode, and 40 MhZ bonded mode for 300 mbps wireless speeds (That speed of course is only found in the lab, and you won't see that kind of speed in real life.  It will be faster than normal Wireless N.).  The trick of course will be getting one...

     

    Make lots of noise, as the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Smiley Wink

     

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    Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 18, 2013 5:46:12 PM
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    Edited by Wineaux on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:46:53 PM

    Yes, there is a new RG, the Motorola NVG589, that combines the outside iNID, the giant battery backup box, and the RG into one smaller box.  You'll also get Wireless N, Gigabit Ethernet, true bridgeable mode, and 40 MhZ bonded mode for 300 mbps wireless speeds (That speed of course is only found in the lab, and you won't see that kind of speed in real life.  It will be faster than normal Wireless N.).  The trick of course will be getting one...

     

    Make lots of noise, as the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Smiley Wink

     

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 18, 2013 6:32:09 PM
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    Voyager
    Thanks!!! I really appreciate the info and the speedy reply. It sounds like exactly what I am looking for times 10. I'm a pretty good squeaking wheel and will let you know when I've squeaked enough.

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 18, 2013 10:43:50 PM
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    Employee
    Please note this product is currently in limited markets and primarily used for new bonded pair installs, some replacements for problematic inid repairs.
    If your market area is currently active do not know but all markets should have by end of year, best bet would be purchase n router placed behind i38? Or wait?
    *I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 19, 2013 10:44:48 AM
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    Trying to place your own router behind any of the other current RG's offered by AT&T will be a horrible experience for you.  Everything that you will be linked to and offered as a "workaround" because none of their previous RG's that support IPTV will really allow you to put them into a true bridge mode.  It's all just horrific kludges and workarounds to sort of make things mostly sort of work.  Seriously.  I've done it.  At the time I had no choice if I truly wanted to make my Plex Media Server function as intended, correctly open up required holes in my firewall for specific software with proper port forwarding, as well as simple things like having my wired and wireless networks combined so WiFi remote control apps on my phones and tablets could find the devices they were supposed to control.

     

    Did I mention how awful these workarounds are to implement?

    Did I mention how much they suck in day to day use for many applications and software?

     

    Seriously, y'all should be ashamed for ever offering RG's this screwed up to begin with, and you should be even more ashamed that you never offered a firmware update to unlock a true bridge mode in them.  You should be triply ashamed if the inability to enter a true bridge mode was permanently disabled in hardware, and every last person from the very top to the bottom who had a hand in approving such crippled pieces of equipment should not just be fired, but blacklisted from ever working in the industry again!  Yes, they are/were THAT bad!

     

    So yeah...  Call and complain constantly.  Have techs out to your home at LEAST once a month.  Be the worst thorn in AT&T's side until they finally give you one of the new NVG589's just to shut you up and make you go away.  Yes, that sounds ugly, and yes the AT&T employees here won't like my suggestion, but it's how the game is played and they created the game and the rules, so do what you must in order to become a satisfied customer.  Because in the end, it isn't about making AT&T or their employees happy.  It's about them making you a happy and satisfied customer able to fully use the service(s) that you are quite frankly paying a lot of money for in the way that YOU want to use them.

     

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 19, 2013 12:11:54 PM
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    ACE - Master

    Winaux overstates the case quite a lot: Many, MANY people have been able to set up a router behind the RG and get exactly what they wanted it to do.

     

    Is it perfect? Heck no.

    Does it work for most people?  Yes.

     

     

     

     

    *The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 20, 2013 6:38:50 PM
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    ACE - Master

    Many people are completely happy with wireless g as well and don't need to put another router behind the router. Wireless g is plenty fast enough for 95% of users.

    ” Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports … all others are games.”- Ernest Hemingway
    *The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 21, 2013 12:27:08 PM
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    JefferMC wrote:

    Winaux overstates the case quite a lot: Many, MANY people have been able to set up a router behind the RG and get exactly what they wanted it to do.

     

    Is it perfect? Heck no.

    Does it work for most people?  Yes.

     

     

     

     


    "Does it work for most people? Yes," is kind of like saying that driving on 4 flat tires works for most people.  Yes, your car will move, but it's far from ideal and you wouldn't want to do it on a daily basis.

     

    As to the usual comments made by AT&T employees in this forum regarding that most people don't need anything faster than Wireless G, Wirelss G is just passable for people who just want to fiddle around on the Internet.  It is however totally unacceptable for people who actually USE their wireless network, and by extension 100MB wired Ethernet falls into the same category as Wireless G, as well as their wired network for things like media streaming, file transfer, security cameras, etc WITHIN their OWN networks.  Wireless N and GIgabit routing are actually very important for those things, and by the constant flood of posts asking how to bridge their own quality router, or find a Wireless N/Gigabit RG, it should be patently obvious that numbers of people using their routers as such is exploding.  Trying to pretend that this isn't happening and/or that people don't know what they need and why is, at the very least, disengenuous, and insulting in many cases,

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 21, 2013 3:00:37 PM
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    ACE - Master
    Edited by JefferMC on Jul 21, 2013 at 3:01:25 PM

    Wineaux wrote:

    JefferMC wrote:

    Winaux overstates the case quite a lot: Many, MANY people have been able to set up a router behind the RG and get exactly what they wanted it to do.

     

    Is it perfect? Heck no.

    Does it work for most people?  Yes.

      


    "Does it work for most people? Yes," is kind of like saying that driving on 4 flat tires works for most people.  Yes, your car will move, but it's far from ideal and you wouldn't want to do it on a daily basis.

     

    As to the usual comments made by AT&T employees in this forum regarding that most people don't need anything faster than Wireless G, Wirelss G is just passable for people who just want to fiddle around on the Internet.  It is however totally unacceptable for people who actually USE their wireless network, and by extension 100MB wired Ethernet falls into the same category as Wireless G, as well as their wired network for things like media streaming, file transfer, security cameras, etc WITHIN their OWN networks.  Wireless N and GIgabit routing are actually very important for those things, and by the constant flood of posts asking how to bridge their own quality router, or find a Wireless N/Gigabit RG, it should be patently obvious that numbers of people using their routers as such is exploding.  Trying to pretend that this isn't happening and/or that people don't know what they need and why is, at the very least, disengenuous, and insulting in many cases,


    Second paragraph first:

     

    (a) the person who said that was not an AT&T Employee.  AT&T Employees are clearly identified as such.

    (b) 802.11g is capable of up to 25 Mbps.  Which is more than anyone on AT&T U-verse is currently capable of pushing through their Internet connection.  It's fast enough to stream almost anything but 1080p/30 uncompressed video.  It is fast enough for most home uses.

    • Is 802.11g fast enough for everyone?  No.
    • Is 802.11n faster?  Usually.
    • Is 802.11n the last word?  No, 802.11ac is on the way.  
    • Can you currently use an 802.11n access point and or router in you home with AT&T U-verse and the currently available 2WIRE 3600/3800/3801/3812 RG's?  Yes, absolutely.
    • Can you use a gigabit switch for your internal network with a 2WIRE 3600/3800/3801/3812 RG?  Yes, absolutely.

    4 flat tires don't work for most people, but hooking a router behind an RG is not anything like running with 4 flat tires. The wireless and routing functionality in the RG is beginner/basic stuff.  If you want something better, you can easily get it.  Are there limitations, sure, but they don't even bother most people who want more than the RG provdies.  It's a good, long term solution.

     

    Just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it won't work for the majority.  I hope that AT&T will bring out better, faster equipment, but I'm willing to use what I have--that works fine--until then.  And I want to help others use that same equipment to get enjoyment out of their Internet experience as well.  Pitching fits about not having the latest and greatest specs built into the provided hardware isn't helpful in that regard.

     

     

    *The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 21, 2013 3:39:42 PM
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    While that particular poster may not be an AT&T employee, that particular line has been used by AT&T employees in many threads, including ones that I have started.

     

    I made clear that I was refering to INTERNAL networking needs, and not your standard browsing behavior.  For those purposes, and let's all be very honest about this particular point, wireless and wired speeds ARE paramount.  Not only that, but so many of the router behind router questions invariably revolve around someone wanting to do something with their INTERNAL network, and not someone expecting that Wireless N is going to make Facebook peppier, or their YouTube videos play smoother.  They are people needing specific functionality for their own INTERNAL network(s) that AT&T's RG's have not previously supplied.  Those people don't want or need to hear about how faster wired and wireless connections won't speed up their browsing because AT&T doesn't support a faster profile than blah, blah, blah.  It's neither pertinent nor germain to the discussion.

     

    I started a thread over 2 years ago asking why AT&T didn't have the RG that is now sitting in my networking closet.  Throughout that thread, and I'm about 99.99% sure that you contributed to said conversation, I spoke about Wireless N already being on the way out, and Wireless AC coming soon, then in pre-certification release, and finally released.  Wireless G and wired 10/100 was already bargain bin tech when those RG's were released, and they haven't miraculously made a comeback.  All that old tech Wireless B/G and 10/100 legacy gear does to your INTERNAL network is slow everything down to the lowest common denominator. 

     

    So while the new Motorola NVG589 does have GIgabit Ethernet and MIMO antennas, it's still saddled with what is now old, legacy tech in the form of Wireless N single band.  Why they didn't include Wireless AC is beyond me.  Especially coming from a company whose entire business model is based upon delivering TV and telephony via the Internet and networking technology.  The only way that AT&T's approach to the tech in their RG's makes any sense is when viewed through the lense of corporate execs getting MASSIVE bonuses by coming in under budget on the RG's.

     

    What I am though is a realist, and having suffered first hand through AT&T's previous track record on putting new'ish tech into their RG's, I know that Wireless N is the best we're going to see for at least the next 2-3 years, and by the time they put Wireless AC into their RG's, there will have been a new wireless spec created, debated, ratified, and implmented and we'll be having the exact same argument then as we are now.

     

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 21, 2013 4:45:30 PM
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    ACE - Master
    Edited by JefferMC on Jul 21, 2013 at 4:46:55 PM

    Wineaux wrote:

     

    ...

     

     Wireless AC coming soon, then in pre-certification release, and finally released...

     

    While "802.11ac" is being sold, the 802.11ac standard is not yet ratified.

     

    ...  Why they didn't include Wireless AC is beyond me

     

    Again, it is not yet ratified. It stands as a draft standard and is subject to change.  Likely?  No.  Possible?  Yes.  When you're literally buying millions of devices, the risk is just not worth it.

     

    ...

     


    And you can still purchase your own gigabit ethernet switch and "802.11ac" access point and use it today in your AT&T-served home.

     

    Personally, I wish they would just go back to using a "dumb" modem without any router or wireless functionality.  Then we'd all be back to picking out the technology we need and can quit arguing about what is included in the modem.  Especially now, since they're charging a premium for the device because it has the extra functionality.

     

    *The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 21, 2013 7:11:45 PM
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    3rd party router in DMZ mode with non-ATT DNS servers...

    Never had a problem with it.

    Re: Does AT&T offer a wireless n RG to replace wireless g i38HG RG?

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    Jul 22, 2013 10:39:35 AM
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    Edited by BobLouder on Jul 22, 2013 at 3:34:08 PM

    TO: my thoughts 

     

    Can you explain in simple, somewhat non-technical terms the following?:

     

    Currently have Uverse Internet with a 2Wire479 (3801hgv) (with Download Speed up to 24 Mbps) and a traditional landline. If it matters, I do not have Uverse TV or Uverse Phone.

     

    * Does the NVG589 only work with fiber optic networks? 

    * What really makes the determination of whether it would work or not? 

    * If a profile has to be "changed" what does that really mean?

     

    TIA

     

    edits in red

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 22, 2013 10:57:15 AM
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    ACE - Master

    BobLouder wrote:

    TO: my thoughts 

     

    Can you explain in simple, somewhat non-technical terms the following?:

     

    Currently have 2Wire479 (3801hvg) (with Download Speed up to 24 Mbps) and traditional landline. 

     

    * Does the NVG589 only work with fiber optic networks? 

     

    It works with Fiber Optic networks in the same way that the 3801hvg you have now does.  It will work over one (or two pair, which your 3801hvg doesn't do) copper pairs or will connect to a fiber ONT on your home using Twisted Pair cabling.

     

    * What really makes the determination of whether it would work or not? 

     

    I don't understand this question.

     

    * If a profile has to be "changed" what does that really mean?

     

    The VRAD and RG (meaning the 3801 or 589) use the frequencies in an arrangement that is called a profile; this profile is determined by AT&T and configured on your account.  The profile is normally determined by the assumed quality of the lines going to your house and by what services you need.  Three examples:  12 Mbps Internet only customers are likely to get a profile that provides less than 20 Mbps of raw data rate; a long 2800' loop between the VRAD and the RG may require a profile that avoids high frequencies that attenuate out faster (25/3); a short loop of 500' with IPTV service will currently get a high-bandwidth 32/5 Mbps profile.

     


     

    *The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 22, 2013 1:19:34 PM
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    BobLouder wrote:

    TO: my thoughts 

     

    Can you explain in simple, somewhat non-technical terms the following?:

     

    Currently have 2Wire479 (3801hvg) (with Download Speed up to 24 Mbps) and traditional landline. 

     

    * Does the NVG589 only work with fiber optic networks? 

    * What really makes the determination of whether it would work or not? 

    * If a profile has to be "changed" what does that really mean?

     

    TIA

     


    The NVG589 will work with fiber optic right to your house (FTTP) or the more common fiber to the node.

     

    As long as you have a VDSL signal (3600, 3800, 3801, i3812, 5031 RGs) then it would work.

     

    A profile being changed means that the amount of bandwidth coming to your RG is changed. You have an internet speed of 24/3, so your RG must be on a 32/5 profile. This means your RG is linked up with the system at 32Mb down and 5Mb up. This is getting is split between TV, VOIP, and internet.

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 22, 2013 3:14:19 PM
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    Edited by BobLouder on Jul 22, 2013 at 3:25:06 PM

    JefferMC,

     

    Thanks for that info.  Previously, I've gotten different information from different people and between your answer and the next, I think I got the answer to *What really makes the determination of whether it would work or not?".  By that I meant ... is it the type of connection (fiber vs copper), type of connection to a certain point (to the house), possibly limitations to my profile (which I did not understand before these new posts), etc.  I was told this morning (Tier 1) that my neighborhood had to be on fiber for it to work. If I am reading these posts correctly, that is not the case.  In the past I had two traditional phone lines, but technically, I'm sure how that is configured inside my house, but it doesn't appear to matter.  Recently, a AT&T tech mentioned that my profile might need to change ... I cannot remember why he suggested that was the case ... but we were in a conversation regarding the 589, and wireless N in my house.

     

    The bottom line is that there doesn't appear to be any technical reason that the Motorola NVG589 wouldn't work in my house.

     

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 22, 2013 3:22:53 PM
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    Edited by BobLouder on Jul 22, 2013 at 3:49:55 PM

    drumboy35,

     

    Thanks for that info ...

     

    RE: "As long as you have a VDSL signal (3600, 3800, 3801, i3812, 5031 RGs) then it would work."

     

    So, there doesn't appear to be a technical reason (fiber vs copper, "bonded pair", 2 wires versus 4 wires, current profile, etc) that the Motorola NVG589 wouldn't work in my house. 

     

    If there are other possible technical reasons, let me know and I will post more info on my current config.

     

    If it matters, I do not have Uverse TV or Uverse Phone.

     

    Thanks!

     

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 22, 2013 4:11:57 PM
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    ACE - Master

    I'm starting to see where you're going, I think.

     

    There does not need to be fiber to your home for the NVG 589, but you do need to be within 5000 feet (as the wires run) of a VRAD, which is itself served by fiber.  What they may have meant is that you need to have fiber run to your neighborhood (i.e. to a VRAD in your neighborhood) so that you can get the VDSL2 flavor of U-verse.

     

    There's another thing called U-verse, which is ADSL2+ based, and customers can be served on loops much longer than 5000' from the equipment.  In a large number of cases, these subscribers are still served from the Central Office, though the cards for this IPDSLAM ADSL2+ can be installed in a VRAD).  This flavor of U-verse uses different modems (i.e. not the NVG 589/2WIRE 3600,3800,3801, but the NVG 510, e.g.) and does not currently offer IPTV.

     

    There are some modems that handle either ADSL2+ and VDSL2 (not at the same time, but could be used for either), however, I don't think the NVG 589 is one of them.

     

    Basically, what I'm saying is that your home may be in an ADSL2+ service area only.

     

     

    *The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 22, 2013 9:11:23 PM
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    Thanks. 

     

    By IPTV are you referring in general to U-Verse TV?  If so, if U-Verse TV is offered in my area, would that tell me that I'm not in a ADSL2+ area?  

     

    -------------------------------------

    "There's another thing called U-verse, which is ADSL2+ based, and customers can be served on loops much longer than 5000' from the equipment.  In a large number of cases, these subscribers are still served from the Central Office, though the cards for this IPDSLAM ADSL2+ can be installed in a VRAD).  This flavor of U-verse uses different modems (i.e. not the NVG 589/2WIRE 3600,3800,3801, but the NVG 510, e.g.) and does not currently offer IPTV."

    -------------------------------------

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 22, 2013 10:16:56 PM
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    Thanks for the question....I suspect you are on a long loop length and having intermittent loss of signal issues causing tech visit.
    Your current 32/5 profile probably has less than 20% headroom (39+ raw available) and or a Noise Margin Ratio (NMR) in the 9-12 area.
    If this is the case lowering your current profile to 25/2 would improve both overhead and NMR for better quality service,.
    The downside is your internet speed would also have to be lowered to 18 Mbps, the good news is that speed is $10/ month less.

    In the future when higher profiles are available you would be able to move your internet speeds up by using bonded pair and the NVG589.

    Based on posts I believe this is the answer your looking for, thanks to all who helped answer some of the OPs other questions. Best
    *I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 22, 2013 11:29:02 PM
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    Assuming he's not on one already, could moving him to a K-Card at the VRAD improve his connection and allow him to keep the higher profile?  I know it helped mine as I'm pretty darned marginal at around 3300' from the VRAD.

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 23, 2013 12:09:47 AM
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    If OP is on the F card, an updated K card reprovisioned could possible add up to another 10 M out
    This is NOT done by a uverse tech, the card has 48 ports so all customers on that card would be updated.
    In addition suspect if updating they would update all the cards not just one, requires scheduling by higher department.

    In reference to BobLouder posts and others

    The OP wording is somewhat vague about tier support fiber, recently talking to tech about 589 RG so I drew the conclusion stated above,
    but could have been talking to tier 2 about unrelated issue, as well speaking to tech inquiring about possible N router or faster internet speeds.

    Statements can make: OP has a 3801 thus he is VDSL, which does require fiber to work, in this case FTTN.
    Bob louder currently has the highest standard profile offered in ALL markets.
    If the lines are clean and can support will automatically be upgraded to 45M profile with 30/3 HSIA.
    If not OP would need to request higher profile to receive pair bonding, reinstall appointment required. Single pair to bonded pair conversion.

    My previous posts implied line issues but not necessarily stated by BobLouder
    *I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s position, strategies or opinions.

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 23, 2013 7:51:48 AM
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    Edited by BobLouder on Jul 23, 2013 at 7:53:08 AM

    Thanks "my thoughts".

     

    I do not have line issues.  Questions are to determine if I am currently "NVG589 ready", from a technical standpoint only.

     

    Based on the above posts, my conclusion is (which may not be correct):

     

    ... that because I have a "3801", I am "VDSL" and therefore I have fiber to wherever that fiber needs to reach (to VRAD, to neighborhood, to house street, OR front street to house, wherever), and my profile is the highest standard profile offered, therefore there is no technical reason that the Motorola NVG 589 would not work at my home now.

     

    If I am missing something, let me know.

     

    ... last, what does OP stand for?  Maybe I need another cup of coffee.

     

     

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    In reference to BobLouder posts and others

    The OP wording is somewhat vague about tier support fiber, recently talking to tech about 589 RG so I drew the conclusion stated above, but could have been talking to tier 2 about unrelated issue, as well speaking to tech inquiring about possible N router or faster internet speeds.

    Statements can make: OP has a 3801 thus he is VDSL, which does require fiber to work, in this case FTTN.
    Bob louder currently has the highest standard profile offered in ALL markets. If the lines are clean and can support will automatically be upgraded to 45M profile with 30/3 HSIA.  If not OP would need to request higher profile to receive pair bonding, reinstall appointment required. Single pair to bonded pair conversion.

    My previous posts implied line issues but not necessarily stated by BobLouder

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    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 23, 2013 8:03:18 AM
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    ACE - Master

    ... last, what does OP stand for?  Maybe I need another cup of coffee.

     

     

    OP stands for original poster.  

    ” Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports … all others are games.”- Ernest Hemingway
    *The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

    Re: NVG589

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    Jul 23, 2013 9:06:08 AM
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    Tutor

    Ah, so I guess I am an HJ  ... HiJacker of thread

     

    __________________________________________________________

     

    ... last, what does OP stand for?  Maybe I need another cup of coffee.

     

     

    OP stands for original poster. 

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    Re: NVG589

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