Lousy RF remote responsiveness

KennyBania - There are three areas of possible problems -

The first is processing the request within the u-verse system. This may be either the newer DVR model(s) or the overall process. As you point out, there have been complaints about the 8010, but I believe my system is too slow. With a 2250 that is not used for viewing - only recording. Push the button (on a 1216), see the green light blink, wait, push it again, see response, see response disappear due to second press.

The second area is that the IR receiver is too sensitive & cannot decode the signal. This can be improved by desensitizing the sensor as described below.

The third area is weak RF. Solutions also described below.

IR Issues

Going back 5-6 years there are many posts about IR interference. Remedies included taping over the IR sensor, hiding the STB, turning off auto brightness on the TV.

A common fault was the info button press corrupting to an STB mute action. The number of reports of this have totally fallen away. My personal initial primary problem was getting the zero to register. But, one day long ago that just went away.

Niles Audio Corp. makes IR repeaters & has a video on their web site showing the fragility of the IR coding that is used for U-verse & other boxes. They said their new line of repeaters could handle it. Oddly, a U-verse customer posted in this community that they had a NIles install that was not working & after they contacted Niles they did not get any satisfactory resolution.

I came to believe that the IR sensor is too sensitive, That the DVR is worse than other STBs. That command type buttons are worse than the number buttons. That, somehow software updates can make it better or worse, So, it is a moving target. Hard to pin down.

I noticed that the U-verse remote does work better than my Logitech Harmony model 700. I looked at the IR signal through a digital camera. It appeared to me that the Harmony IR signal is stronger than the U-verse remote. This reinforces my theory that the IR sensor is too sensitive.

Recently, my most common problem was FF and Play Buttons often corrupted to chan up and chan down more than six times a night while watching recorded shows, exclusively.

I happened to notice that I had a specific kind of "duct tape" covering the blue light on the STB. Actually, it just looks like duct tape, but is electrical tape available at the Home Depot in the electrical dept. - http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-2-in-x-150-ft-Vinyl-Electrical-Bundling-Tape-Silver-30002664/202741845#specifications

This tape has a degree of transparency. I thought I would use it to cover the IR sensor. The remote has never worked better. In over 100 evenings since I applied the tape - watching recordings while FF through the ads - I have not had one chan up - chan down corruption . Previously, there would have been at least 6x100=600 occurrences.

Almost all button presses are accepted & none are changed to a different action.


RF Issues

It should not be a surprise, but it is, that half the problems with the RF remote are IR. I run an STB well hidden for a second TV. I had the IR sensor covered with black tape. I replaced the black tape with the "duct tape" & saw an immediate improvement in response to menu buttons. The number buttons were already good - see below for that solution.

The STB using RF must be hidden due to the dongle conversion of RF to IR. If it is not hidden it is subject to the following problems:

IR corruption - Ironically, the RF remote was often offered as a resolution for IR problems. But, if the STB is not hidden nothing has changed to eliminate theI IR corruption problem. If the corrupting light can be seen by the STB IR sensor it will continue to corrupt the IR signal.

If the STB IR sensor can see IR from another remote, it will respond to it.

If another STB can see the IR generated by the dongle, it will respond to it.

Note that hidden means the IR does not see outside light - If you have an optical repeater(like the Niles mentioned above) it is IR subject to corruption. If you have an IR receiver that produces RF to go through a wall, it is still IR subject to corruption. Any optical link open to the room is still open to IR corruption.

Only if the remote is RF (like the point anywhere remote) transmitted to a well hidden device will it ward off IR corruption. The ultimate solution is a wireless remote app. These are available, but incomplete & other devices do not yet support wireless remote. But, the Buddy TV remote can be used for a u-verse STB.

Previously, I found the RF remote lacking in RF power - in the same room, twelve feet away, hidden only by a thin sheet of cardboard. One method to increase RF power is to hold the remote under your chin while pressing a button - using your head as an antenna.

A better way is this antenna placed in the battery compartment - http://www.amazon.com/Cellular-Innovations-A-BOOSTER-Universal-Antenna/dp/B00009WCAP/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1366128630&sr=8-8&keywords=cell+phone+booster

With this antenna, the channel numbers are almost always accepted. With the "duct tape" in place, the other buttons work almost every time. The remote now works better than ever.

But, recently, I discovered that weakened batteries triggers poor results due to low power. If the remote starts acting up go for fresh batteries. Before I realized the batteries were low I was getting better RF by holding it against a metal arm of a reading light.

To increase RF sensitivity - Cut off the base and one leg of a wire coat hanger (one piece). Hold the short leg perpendicular to the dongle and wrap the longer end around the dongle a few turns until the two perpendicular ends are about the same length (about 3”). Cut the longer one to the same length as the shorter one.

STB Issues

Once IR and RF issues are resolved, there are timing issues with the STB to contend with. Numbers process fast and Menu items process slow. You need quick, light touch on some numbers to avoid duplicates and a slow, strong press on menu activities. Effort is required to suppress the urge to press again while waiting for a response. It takes concentration to get effective results. Frequently a second press immediately cancels a slow responding first press. Current IR and RF issues amplify the effect of the timing issue.


I have previously reported some ways to improve function of both IR and RF remotes.

One of the things that bothers me is the proliferation of RF devices (STB, WAP, RG and remote) that do not have the capability to add an external antenna. Based on posts, all of these devices are seriously inadequate & could be significantly improved by a better antenna.

I have always felt that the RF remote does not generate an adequate RF signal. I found that I could improve operation by -

Holding the remote under & touching my chin.
Adding the printed circuit card that is offered to help cell phone reception to the battery compartment,
Touching the remote to a reading lamp bar.

Adding these “make do antennae” to the remote provide improvement. But, response was still sporadic. It definitely does not live up to it’s “point anywhere” name.

I always wanted to put an antenna on the dongle. I finally did it. I cut the base wire and one leg of a wire coat hanger. Held the short leg vertical & wrapped a few turns of the longer segment around the dongle until the two vertical ends were about the same - about three inches & cut the longer one so that they are even.

Since I have the dongle connected by a short USB jumper to the rear USB port and the STB IR sensor taped over and the whole front of the STB blocked out with tape & holding the dongle in position, everything comes together to bring the RF remote up to in-room expectations. Every button push works correctly regardless of how the remote is held.

When leaving the room intermittent failure returns. Probably needs a wired antenna on both ends to get that to work.

I will be interested to see how long this performs as the battery deteriorates. i previously notice that rechargeable batteries do not last as long as I would like. I am trying a CVS MAX battery advertised as their longest lasting alkaline ( currently buy one get one free)

With the loss of the Logitech Harmony Model 300 & the general malaise surrounding the Harmony Line of remotes, I started poking around the URC line of remotes to handle cases beyond the U-verse standard remote capabilities.. Here is what I found.

They have a couple of really inexpensive ones. But the reviews seem to indicate that they do NOT support U-verse. (looks like the RCA RCRP05BR is still first choice in the low price category).They, also, have very expensive models, that I would not consider.

The sweet spot is RF10 or RF20 - They have similar functionality and learning capability and price and RF capability and do support U-verse (per a reviewer).

The RF10 has a “shift “ button that nearly doubles the button availability as well as eight extra physical buttons. A button supports one function without pressing shift & another function immediately after the shift button is pressed.

The RF20 adds buttons with a screen (same as my Harmony 700) I find I only want to use the first screen, which is similar to the ”shift button” concept.

Maybe, you select the RF10 or RF20 based on whether you prefer the shift button or the LCD screen for added buttons.

The programming uses only the remote button pushing via codes or searching, similar to the U-verse remote or learning from the original remote (which is only available on the U-verse point anywhere remote). Some find it difficult to program, some do not.

A big adder is RF capability. It is probably a better choice (when the RF receiver is also purchased) than the U-verse point anywhere remote, in most cases.

It does NOT have pairing, (like the U-verse remote) so, you cannot have two separate RF systems for two u-verse STBs. If you happen to have a very close neighbor that has the same remote with U-verse, each would control both STBs.

Reviews seem to indicate both the RF and IR are very powerful. Some expressed concern about two remotes controlling two devices (due to both devices being “in range”). This limits it to one U-verse STB. The limit includes IR and RF because the remote always sends both RF and IR. If RF and IR could be turned off by device, it could control two STBs (one IR {visible} and one RF {hidden}).

The RF/IR converter does have a single large IR blaster and individual, paste-on blasters. But, the individual ones are NOT assignable to specific devices. If they were, it could control multiple u-verse STBs.

If it had either of these capabilities to control more than one of the same device (specifically - U-verse STBs), I would probably get one. If I could choose IR/RF by device, I could control a visible STB (via IR) and a hidden STB (via RF). If I could assign a tape-on blaster to a device button, then I could control two or more hidden STBs.

The eight extra buttons at the bottom are labeled as surround system. It always seems a struggle with the U-verse remote on how to handle the volume button. This allows for flexibility in having a button for TV volume & another for surround sound volume.

The remote is device oriented. It introduces the concept of “activity” by allowing controlling features on one device while another device is active. Similar to the U-verse remote, but I believe it is more specific/flexible. It , also, can turn on multiple devices with a single button press.

If you have a device with separate on/off IR (not toggle), the RF10 has the separate buttons to allow selection, based on that detail. This is powerful for when two devices get out of synch on start-up (Like the U-verse OK button).

If this writeup piques your interest in the URC RF remotes, be sure to read the reviews and questions in Amazon, as well as the user manual at the URC site to see if there are any speed bumps in the way of your needs. - http://www.universalremote.com/pdf/Manual_RF10.pdf

Note that this info was derived from Amazon postings and the URC user manuals. NOT personal experience with using a RF10 or RF20 remote.

Is the RF/IR dongle plugged into the front or rear usb port? if its in the rear port this is your problem. As an installer i would go out to repairs for remote control issues only to find the customer had moved the dongle to the rear usb port because they didn't want to look at the ugly dongle all day, but the problem was the dongle just transmits the rf signal, then it converts it to IR and then to the infared receiver on the box.

KennyBania - In my original response, I was thinking you had a U-verse point anywhere remote, which would likely have RF power problems. The URC remote is supposed to very powerful RF, which would not be a problem. You do have fresh batteries??

The URC IR is also supposed to be especially powerful. The power of a normal U-verse remote is too much for many STBs. There are posts that the new DVRs have are too sensitive for any IR signal & require a "coming" software change.

I can see the same difference in processing different numbers that you describe with my 2250 and Logitech Harmony remote with straight IR (NO RF).

It sounds like you have already tried to cut down on the signal. The tape I recommended in my previous post worked great for me, but another poster, with the new DVR, did not have as good a result.

First, make sure the DVR location is dark - no lights - then be very aggressive on cutting the IR signal - it will work best just before it does not work at all. One way to look at it is it is too powerful for some numbers and good for others. Maybe it is too weak for some numbers and ok for others. Try and determine which numbers work/don't work as you block/unblock the IR signal??

KennyBania - Based on forum posts, there do appear to be serious problems with the control of the 8010 box. Those posts are the only source of info I have. Here is a google result you can look at these posts - https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=u-verse+forum+80101&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=#as_qdr=all&hl=en&lr=&q=u-verse+forum+8010

Maybe it is just because I have the time and inclination to experiment with the various possible ways to mitigate the deficiency that I come up with the suggestions listed in my previous posts. I do understand if you do not have the same time available and inclination to do it. I agree that a real solution involves the hardware and/or software. That is currently a black hole.

If I had an 8010 I would still be tinkering withe the IR signal to try to find that narrow sweet spot where all the numbers appeared on the screen.

KennyBania - You can try that. You can try placing it across the room. You can try bouncing it off the ceiling. Anything to cut the power at the sensor. Keep blocking until it does not work. Then back off a bit.

Rcondo- I agree that the att RF remote is seriously deficient. I am becoming more disenchanted with mine & it is in the same room, about 12 ft away. Blocked only by a thin sheet of cardboard, using an old TV antenna on the dongle. Maybe I will make sure it did not slip.

It appears that you have read some of my suggestions. Do not forget, that the reception at the dongle requires improvement, as well.

I described making an antenna from a coat hanger. Another antenna would be using the old TV antenna.

Also, do not forget the portable device app. The buddy app is pretty good.

I guess I mentioned these in another thread, Just want to be sure you are aware of all the possibilities. I can only think one post at a time.