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Posted Jul 3, 2013
11:31:29 PM
AT&T Uverse and Twitch.tv

Not sure if it has been posted about on this board before but in the last couple of months there has been a huge stutter and lag problem across the board for all major ISP's and this site, to include Uverse. From what I can tell it occurs at the Level 3 CDN that uverse routes through. I know Comcast and Time Warner have talked to Twitch.tv to get this issue fixed but is AT&T going to be doing anything about it?

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Jul 31, 2013 4:38:03 AM
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ACE - Expert
Edited by JefferMC on Jul 31, 2013 at 4:40:06 AM

kmharris09 wrote:

I am having the exact same problem. I ran a traceroute to twitch.tv and almost every hop times out.

 

As explained numerous times on these forums, AT&T's decision to not respond to the ICMP messages used by traceroute does not imply anything with regards to how these same routers handle TCP or UDP traffic.

 

What my options for fixing the stuttering issue?

 

I don't quite follow some of the analogies. Is the issue that twitch won't pay for sufficient upload speed? That seems very unlikely because it makes their service unusable. My understanding is that during high traffic periods ATT simply throttles certain high volume web services to save themselves money on developing bandwidth. Am I not correctly understanding the problem?

 

You are not understanding the problem.  There is no deliberate or active throttling or active traffic shaping going on.  Actually it's more complicated than my analogy.  Twitch.TV has their ISP.  AT&T is your ISP.  The ISP's have connections between them where they agree to a certain connection size (like you did when you subscribed to your ISP).  These are called peering arrangements.  The original idea was "you scratch my back so my customers can get to yours, and I'll scratch your back to your customers can get to mine."  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peering.  After a while, because of the difference of size in ISPs, paid peering became the norm.  ISPs with a lot of customers want companies with a few customers to pay for their data connection to all their customers.  Here's likely where our conflicts begin.  Twitch.TV's ISP and AT&T have agreed to some peering connections of a bandwidth for a rate.  Twitch.TV's growth has caused the load on some of these connections to reach the agreed upon bandwidth.  Unless AT&T and Twitch.TV's ISP agree to a new peering arrangement for more bandwidth before the expiration of their current arrangement, this situation will continue.

 

Twitch.TV's ISP is likely going to Twitch.TV and saying: "Y'all need to pay us more money because we need to expand our peering connections."  Twitch.TV is probably pointing at their contract and saying "nope." 

...

 


 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
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Aug 23, 2013 3:05:23 PM
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Teacher

I knew I was shooting myself in the foot a little there. BUT, I would assume it has to do with the videos being served from different places. Obviously live streaming is different technology than saved vidoes..

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Aug 23, 2013 6:29:56 PM
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ACE - Expert

Izzmo wrote:

I knew I was shooting myself in the foot a little there. BUT, I would assume it has to do with the videos being served from different places. Obviously live streaming is different technology than saved vidoes..


Well, the video stream is probably not compressed as well on live video as on prerecorded, so it may require more bandwidth.  It may come from a different server.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Aug 28, 2013 8:14:39 PM
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ACE - Master

Izzmo wrote:

@Donovan1981 - Don't let JefferMC and oufanindallas get to you.  They clearly think it is just Twitch.tv, even though we all have experienced that we can view the same streams fine on other ISP's or, like your said, on our mobile devices ON AT&T's network. It is, in fact, a U-VERSE problem.

 

I don't know how many people need to explain it different ways for these trolls JefferMC and oufanindallas need to understand it. I am on UVERSE, on the highest package available, and cannot stream 480p streams. While, on my phone, I can stream 1080 just fine. Furthermore, I can VPN out of AT&T's network onto some other ISP's and it will be fine. Clearly, this is a AT&T U-VERSE problem.

 

{keep it courteous}


So, the links that JefferMC posted aren't proof enough that it's not an AT&T problem and that other major providers are having the same issue.  Whatever, people seem to be so blinded by their issues that the forget the forest for the trees.  The same issue that people have with YouTube and claim it's an AT&T issue, I have at work and we have an OC3 speed at work and we still have issues with some streaming services.

” Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports … all others are games.”- Ernest Hemingway
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Aug 29, 2013 7:01:38 AM
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How about we look at this a different way oufanindallas. People who don't have problem don't complain, so you do not hear from them. You only hear from the people having problems.

 

That being said, TWC has problems with what appears to be bandwidth limiting. UVERSE is the other big one that comes up. Verizon is spotty based on the Twitch.tv KB and usually has something to do with outages.

 

I can literally go next door to my friend's place, who uses Cox Internet, and it will be fine on the same stream. That's a UVERSE issue.

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Aug 29, 2013 8:18:19 AM
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Izzmo wrote:

...

 

I can literally go next door to my friend's place, who uses Cox Internet, and it will be fine on the same stream. That's a UVERSE issue.


I disagree.  I say that's an issue that a U-verse customer experiences.  It may be an issue with Twitch.TV

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Aug 29, 2013 8:37:42 AM
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...your post has pretty much no point. Explain further please, "I'll wait."

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Aug 29, 2013 12:07:34 PM
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ACE - Expert

You have a problem in your home.  Your neighbor doesn't.  You have different ISPs.  So you blame your ISP.

You have a problem in your home.  I don't.  We have the same ISP.  So how can you blame the ISP?

You have a problem in your home.  Others have a problem in their home.  Y'all have different ISPs.  So you blame... who?

 

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Aug 29, 2013 1:06:05 PM
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1. Well, why wouldn't you blame your ISP? Is there a reason UVERSE cannot stand up to the same standards as another ISP in the same area?

 

2. You have clearly stated before that you aren't watching streams, but saved vidoes. Different scenario. Also, we don't know if you are watching the same streams either.

 

3. Like I said in my previous post, there only other real problem ISP is TWC, and most people have pretty good evidence that TWC is actually throttling their connection. I do not think UVERSE is doing this, I just think there is something more political going on with it.

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Aug 29, 2013 1:29:54 PM
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Izzmo wrote:

1. Well, why wouldn't you blame your ISP? Is there a reason UVERSE cannot stand up to the same standards as another ISP in the same area?

 

2. You have clearly stated before that you aren't watching streams, but saved vidoes. Different scenario. Also, we don't know if you are watching the same streams either.

 

3. Like I said in my previous post, there only other real problem ISP is TWC, and most people have pretty good evidence that TWC is actually throttling their connection. I do not think UVERSE is doing this, I just think there is something more political going on with it.


1) Same area doesn't really mean anything on the Internet

2) No, I said that both were in use.

3) I've seen posts for more than just TWC and Uverse.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Aug 30, 2013 8:52:37 PM
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@ oufanindallas

abd

@JefferMC

Ok let me put this as easy as i can. Coming from a customer.

Charter cable works.
Once Source cable + VDSL from the same company works.

Uverse does not work.


As a customer we dont really care what the problem is. But ATT needs to fix it bottom line.

Charter cable is in my city but not where i live because the housing track is new and not alot of people live here but i have family who have it and dont have problems.

THIS IS A ATT PROBLEM. Because if it was not. It would happen on EVERY ISP NOT JUST ATT and TWC.

You can say this or that. But bottom line is. ATT is the problem. Not twitch.tv

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Aug 31, 2013 7:14:28 AM
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Donovan1981 wrote:
...
You can say this or that. But bottom line is. ATT is the problem. Not twitch.tv

You can say this or that, but it remains that it is not clear that the problem is AT&T's responsibility to solve.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Sep 1, 2013 7:39:49 AM
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Donovan1981 wrote:
@ oufanindallas

abd

@JefferMC

Ok let me put this as easy as i can. Coming from a customer.

Charter cable works.
Once Source cable + VDSL from the same company works.

Uverse does not work.


As a customer we dont really care what the problem is. But ATT needs to fix it bottom line.

Charter cable is in my city but not where i live because the housing track is new and not alot of people live here but i have family who have it and dont have problems.

THIS IS A ATT PROBLEM. Because if it was not. It would happen on EVERY ISP NOT JUST ATT and TWC.

You can say this or that. But bottom line is. ATT is the problem. Not twitch.tv

It is not an AT&T problem because if it was it would effect everyone.  I have gone to twitch and I was able to stream live feeds, I'm on 12Mbps, and I'm running my pc wireless so it's not UVerse.

” Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports … all others are games.”- Ernest Hemingway
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Sep 1, 2013 3:49:40 PM
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What time of day was you watching this live stream? Also was you watching it above 420p ? 

 

 

C:\Users\prattdog>tracert www.google.com

Tracing route to www.google.com [74.125.227.49]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms homeportal [192.168.1.254]
2 5 ms 6 ms 7 ms 107-203-156-3.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net [1
07.203.156.3]
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 12 ms 8 ms 15 ms 12.83.34.5
7 12 ms 8 ms 11 ms gar23.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.85.73]
8 13 ms 15 ms 21 ms 12.249.185.238
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 10 ms 8 ms 9 ms 209.85.250.77
11 9 ms 8 ms 7 ms dfw06s06-in-f17.1e100.net [74.125.227.49]

Trace complete.

 

 

That is a tracert i did to google.com... But ATT says everything is fine... I see ALOT of wrong in there.

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Sep 1, 2013 5:55:20 PM
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ACE - Expert

Donovan1981 wrote:

What time of day was you watching this live stream? Also was you watching it above 420p ? 

 

 

C:\Users\prattdog>tracert www.google.com

Tracing route to www.google.com [74.125.227.49]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms homeportal [192.168.1.254]
2 5 ms 6 ms 7 ms 107-203-156-3.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net [1
07.203.156.3]
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 12 ms 8 ms 15 ms 12.83.34.5
7 12 ms 8 ms 11 ms gar23.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.85.73]
8 13 ms 15 ms 21 ms 12.249.185.238
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 10 ms 8 ms 9 ms 209.85.250.77
11 9 ms 8 ms 7 ms dfw06s06-in-f17.1e100.net [74.125.227.49]

Trace complete.

 

 

That is a tracert i did to google.com... But ATT says everything is fine... I see ALOT of wrong in there.


And what about that traceroute do you find wrong?

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Sep 29, 2013 6:19:44 PM
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Same thing that's wrong with this one when a tracert is done to www.twitch.tv
Tracing route to cdn.justin.tv.c.footprint.net [8.26.221.126]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms CISCO36629 [192.168.0.1]
2 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms homeportal [192.168.1.254]
3 22 ms 34 ms 21 ms 75-17-224-3.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [75.
17.224.3]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 22 ms 23 ms 22 ms 12.83.80.161
6 25 ms 23 ms 22 ms gar26.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.123.16.109]
7 39 ms 39 ms 37 ms 4.68.62.229
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

I've had AT&T U-verse for approximately 1 day and already hate it. We are consumers, not network engineers. All this ridiculous speculation on "its this, could be that, DEFINITELY NOT AT&T'S FAULT" is a joke. Why stick your head in the sand? We are consumers. We expect very simple things to work. Streaming a livestream shouldn't be a network-breaking feat for any one provider. Really though, be honest. Unless it makes AT&T money they aren't going to do anything about it.

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Oct 8, 2013 6:56:10 AM
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Mentor

I've noticed that this issue has gotten somewhat better recently any one else?

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Dec 12, 2013 7:16:33 PM
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This did get better for a few weeks but now its back to having alot of problems. Its sad when ATT can not hold there stuff together. I really wish they would move away from home service. ALL my uverse stuff does not work right. Home TV service. Internet service. They should just keep the wireless and leave the ISP stuff to the companys who care about it.

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Dec 12, 2013 10:37:20 PM
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Is there any sort of resolution on this yet? I still cannot get this fixed with getting in contact with ATT uverse tech and reading through this whole post it still seems like nothing has been resolved even after all of these months. Give me a number besides the 2020 number to call into because they have no idea what I am talking about when trying to explain myself.

 

Or is this topic now dead and no one cares anymore?

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Feb 4, 2014 11:47:12 AM
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Voyager

SO, This problem currently has been going on for about a year here (Norman, OK). And frankly I'm this close to done. I switched to Uverse 2 years ago. maybe 3, because there was a great subscription deal when I first joined plus I had had some mild frustrations with Cox Cable (the other major ISP in our area.)

 

Here's the deal.

 

We've come to this point where literally the two main things I do on the internet in my free time beyond work activities are watch Twitch streams and play steam games/league of legends. And those have become deal breakers at this point.

 

I'm at the 24/4 Max Turbo package. There is literally 1 more upgrade I can go to "45/whatever" for 75 bucks a month.

 

Or i can go to Cox for their 50/10 down for 70 bucks a month.

 

I've got a desktop and a laptop. Both have issues with twitch at homeMy workplace uses Cox. The laptop certainly doesn't have problems there. I've got several friends who use Cox internet at their 25/5 package. None of them have issues with streaming twitch at 1080 much less 720. I cannot get decent stream quality at 480. This is at various times of day on various streams.

 

Basically I've tested hardware, software, used a variety of websites, various firewall fixes, attempted using the services at peak times/off times, and at different qualities, and I still run into problems. However I've seen the alternative ISP not have these same issues. I understand that I can't be sure I won't have the same problems if I were to switch to Cox

 

Maybe I can't blame ATT and maybe we can't be sure it is their fault. But I can be sure there is at least an alternative at a similar/potentially cheaper price point.

 

If it's a peering issue, if it's net neutrality being shot down so now you can be honest about who you "insertyourPRapprovedwordforthrottle", whatever it is, fix it. Because the only major competitor you have in this market doesn't appear to have the same problem.

 

Fix it, or lose a customer that two years ago was more than happy to recommend you to everyone looking for an ISP in the area. Then I'll get all the first hand empirical knowledge/evidence I need in regards to all other things being equal which service actually provides the better service.

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Feb 4, 2014 1:01:15 PM
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ACE - Expert

I've got two kids who play LoL at least 10 hours per week and one of them watches LoL tournaments and walkthroughs from Twitch.TV on a fairly regular basis.  He only occasionaly has issues with Twitch.TV, and I've never seen bandwidth issues with LoL.

 

And this with a 12 Mbps AT&T U-verse connection.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Feb 4, 2014 8:16:16 PM
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@JefferMC 

 

Mind letting me know where you're located? I'm wondering if it would simply be more convenient for me to move there.

But seriously. At this point literally the only thing left for me to switch out to see where the problem lies is switching out ISPs.

 

I do not care if it really is ATT's fault or not. I do not care if the issue is some background company that wants to much money that they need to make some sort of peering agreement with.

Because from what I can see, Cox has made that agreement to pay that background company whatever money they want to let their users watch streams. ( I don't even want to stream myself. I literally just want to watch a livestream in 720p. How difficult is that)

 

All that matters to me is

 

ATT = I definitely have a problem, and it hasn't resolved itself for the year i stuck around in somewhat good faith.

Cox = Maybe I won't have this problem, and if it doesn't solve the problem, I know there is some other issue that I'm not seeing.

 

But hey I'll also know that paying for anything over 12 MPBS is a complete waste of money regardless of provider.

 

Maybe that's the problem. I've been overpaying and I should actually lower my service to the 12mbps connection that you're subscribing to. Apparently everything is fantastic there.

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Feb 24, 2014 4:06:47 PM
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Voyager

I know this topic has been brought up before but I was wondering if anyone had any current information about u-verse and twitch tv. I have a 6 down connection, while not being fantastic it can handle 1080 videos on youtube and other streaming websites no problem. However when ever I try to watch a stream on twitch the video stutters and buffers. I've tried every solution people have suggested on the web and nothing seems to work. Any information at all would be appreciated. 

 

Thanks

Josh

Twitch TV and U-Verse

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Feb 25, 2014 4:56:16 PM
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So jeff let me get this straight.  ATT works for you in your geopgrahical location so there is no way this can be an ATT issue? I am not sure if you are technical support, if you are,  just wow.

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Feb 25, 2014 5:46:57 PM
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Causto wrote:

So jeff let me get this straight.  ATT works for you in your geopgrahical location so there is no way this can be an ATT issue? I am not sure if you are technical support, if you are,  just wow.


Jeffer is an AT&T customer just like you.  He's not technical support for AT&T but probably has more computer knowledge than 90% of them.  TwitchTV is another topic that is almost like YouTube and Netflix.  There are areas where it has no problems and others where everyone complains.  However, it's not exclusive to AT&T.

” Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports … all others are games.”- Ernest Hemingway
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Feb 28, 2014 6:06:57 PM
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Edited by infiniteice on Feb 28, 2014 at 6:08:10 PM

Long time twitch user, supermod, etc.

 

I have spoken with a few of the twitch 'engineers' (backdevs who know everything there is to know).

 

This is not just AT&T.  Comcast, TW, VZFIOS and ATT all have issues (just google twitch + [any ISP]

 f

The conversation always comes to the same point: it's a peering agreement issue.  Twitch blames ATT, ATT blames twitch, in the end some of the peering agreemments and transfer of lines between companies (some of this sh*t was installed by 'pacific bell'...rented off/sold to smaller companies..upgraded without re-doing the whole block...re-acquired by Pacific Bell (now known as AT&T...)...

 

no bueno, overall.

 

AT&T could probably remedy this the easiest of all the ISPs involved.

Remember who installed the gridwork and owns the lines for basically every urban area on the west coast?  Look at any public telephone/payphone...PacBELL.  

 

They also have the most leverage.  They can say 'suck it, pay us more' all they want because their bottom line isnt' affected, if they simply do nothing at all.

 

(1post account, wont check back.  just dropping a tidbit here. my sources are conversations with internal twitch architects and a few friends at the california superloop mainline.)

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Apr 23, 2014 5:21:39 PM
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I have Media Com, They lease from AT&T.

 

I spent a long time on there tech support line trying to get ID10Ts to understand my issue. As it was ONLY twitch.tv causing the problem it MUST be twitch TV right???????????

 

After taking 6 hours of my OWN time to trace the issue down, i sent them some log files, routes, packets and a few other things.. the next day i got a reply in my inbox

 

"We have escalated the issue to our NOC. At this time it appears to be an issue between us, AT&T and Level 3 communications were something isn't getting routed correctly. "

 

Confirmed AT&T issue, stop trying to say it is not.

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Apr 23, 2014 7:06:44 PM
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Starting having this issue again myself around a month or so ago. Unfortunately I got nowhere with support, hopefully your escalation will fix this for all of us (my route to twitch sends me to a Level3 connection as well).

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Apr 23, 2014 7:20:51 PM
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thadpearsall wrote:

I have Media Com, They lease from AT&T.

 

I spent a long time on there tech support line trying to get ID10Ts to understand my issue. As it was ONLY twitch.tv causing the problem it MUST be twitch TV right???????????

 

After taking 6 hours of my OWN time to trace the issue down, i sent them some log files, routes, packets and a few other things.. the next day i got a reply in my inbox

 

"We have escalated the issue to our NOC. At this time it appears to be an issue between us, AT&T and Level 3 communications were something isn't getting routed correctly. "

 

Confirmed AT&T issue, stop trying to say it is not.


Just because the issue you're having today may be a routing issue that is fixable, doesn't mean the experience of anyone else in a time period separated by weeks and possibly thousands of miles geographically has anything to do with that.


Sometimes it's a real AT&T problem.  Often it's the same peering congestion that all of these large scale video providers have.  The solution is for someone to pay for the increased dataflow. The most logical entity to pay for it is the one thats generating all the dataflow.  That's what happened with Netflix/Comcast.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: AT&T Uverse and Twitch.tv

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Jun 3, 2014 5:30:29 AM
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Here's the bottom line: say all you want about peering and who should pay and blah blah blah. All people know is THEY'RE PAYING FOR INTERNET AND CAN'T USE A WEBSITE OTHER PEOPLE CAN.

 

It's like when cable companies stop carrying TV channels over negotiations. You know what, I don't give a F whose fault it is or who should pay. All I know is my neighbor still has Comedy Central and I don't. And if my cable company doesn't get it back, (Yes, them. Because that's who I pay for the service), I will SWITCH to another one that has it.

 

So if ATT can't make these customers' Twitch work, and their neighbors and workplaces and cellphones, etc. all DO... well, they will leave ATT for someone else. That's what they're trying to tell them, and you just tell them how stupid they are and how it's not ATT's problem.

 

And lol at the ATT apologists on this site, anyway. You'd think ATT was their dead grandpa or something the way they defend it. JefferMC keeps chiding people for giving their personal examples and then responds non-stop about how Twitch works fine for his son on ATT? It's like he straight up gets off on insulting customers looking for help.

Re: AT&T Uverse and Twitch.tv

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