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Codysatx's profile

Tutor

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4 Messages

Thursday, July 4th, 2013 6:31 AM

AT&T Uverse and Twitch.tv

Not sure if it has been posted about on this board before but in the last couple of months there has been a huge stutter and lag problem across the board for all major ISP's and this site, to include Uverse. From what I can tell it occurs at the Level 3 CDN that uverse routes through. I know Comcast and Time Warner have talked to Twitch.tv to get this issue fixed but is AT&T going to be doing anything about it?

Contributor

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2 Messages

11 years ago

This is really interesting.   I've been throwing away all the Charter flyers in the mail for the past 2 years thinking...wow, i'd never use them.   but for the past 1 month now, i can't watch the only video i watch online, twitch.tv.   I have the 24M plan as well and was wondering why all of a sudden, i can't watch a 480p vid without it being unbearable.

 

Maybe i'm just going to switch to charter after all.   I'm sure ATT doesn't care about the $185/month i pay them...i'm just one customer and am also "the" customer that got them to realize they had cables in my neighborhood already and got 25 of my neighbors to sign up the day it was available.....

Contributor

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2 Messages

11 years ago

i don't even watch VOD's...i only watch live streams which are like 150kps at 1080p...i can't understand what the issues are with Uverse and this only started about 1 month ago...before that i could watch 5 streams with zero lag all at 1080p.  i have time warner at my office with only a 10M/1M connection and all streams run perfectly....so it's really ONLY Uverse right now....

Contributor

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1 Message

11 years ago

Thank you for the link, JefferMC.  

Voyager

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2 Messages

11 years ago

AT&T should get in touch with Twitch and enable peering so U-verse users can watch streams without lag. We pay for internet service and we should not have to put up with lag when we have sufficient bandwith to watch a stream.

ACE - Expert

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34.6K Messages

11 years ago


@SuppliedRelic wrote:

AT&T should get in touch with Twitch and enable peering so U-verse users can watch streams without lag. We pay for internet service and we should not have to put up with lag when we have sufficient bandwith to watch a stream.


Did you perhaps miss this post?

 

http://forums.att.com/t5/Features-and-How-To/AT-amp-T-Uverse-and-Twitch-tv/m-p/3521443#M38621

 

Voyager

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2 Messages

11 years ago

We should already be able to view streams without any lag. AT&T should make an effort to illeviate this issue once and for all.

ACE - Expert

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34.6K Messages

11 years ago

Sure, no matter the cause or the responsibility, AT&T should bear any expense to make it better.  Gotcha.  Hope you're ready for the HSI price increase to cover it.

 

ACE - Master

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6.9K Messages

11 years ago

Maybe it's just me, but I just tried watching a couple of live streams with no lag. I'm on a wireless 12Mb network.

Tutor

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4 Messages

11 years ago

I am having the exact same problem. I ran a traceroute to twitch.tv and almost every hop times out.

 

What my options for fixing the stuttering issue?

 

I don't quite follow some of the analogies. Is the issue that twitch won't pay for sufficient upload speed? That seems very unlikely because it makes their service unusable. My understanding is that during high traffic periods ATT simply throttles certain high volume web services to save themselves money on developing bandwidth. Am I not correctly understanding the problem?

 

Are there certain ISPs that do not have the stuttering issue? I find twitch.tv very entertaining, but it is only bearable at 1080p. If some other ISP does not have the stutter problem, I will switch ISPs.

 

Is it legal for ISPs to throttle certain websites? According to this, http://www.att.com/gen/public-affairs?pid=20879, ATT's official policy is that they do not throttle websites. But, my traceroute (although I may be misunderstanding it) seems to paint a different picture. Is there any way to verify that ATT does not throttle websites?

 

Additionally, they seem to hint that, contrary to their no-throttle policy, sometimes "congestion" occurs in certain areas where everyone gets on the internet at once, and they "manage" it. But, they do not explain what they do to "manage" congestion. Do they in fact have an algorithm that manages the congestion by throttling high bandwidth websites (like twitch and youtube)?? I suspect they do. Perhaps my 1 Mb plan is in fact not 1 Mb at all during congested periods (except for low traffic websites). Or, maybe what they do is put a cap on everyone's download speed during high congestion periods. The fact that ATT does not tell me what they do makes me suspicious and irritated.

 

ATT has a more detailed policy here:  http://www.att.com/Common/about_us/pdf/ATT_Net_Neutrality_Policy_Statement.pdf (NNPS). They cite to 47 CFR 8 in stating that they are legally required to not "unreasonably discriminate in transmitting traffic." That CFR explains that "[a] network management practice is reasonable if it is appropriate and tailored to achieving a legitimate network management purpose, taking into account the particular network architecture and technology of the broadband Internet access service." http://cfr.regstoday.com/47cfr8.aspx#47_CFR_8p1. Given the vague and general nature of that rule, I am sure ATT legal took the position that ATT is authorized to do anything it wants. LOL. ATT further explains (on page 4 of their NNPS) that they disclose details of how they manage congestion on their wireless network. Conspicuously absent is any explanation of how they manage congestion on their wired network.

 

My conclusion is that given their obviously intentional omission of any explanation regarding how they "reasonably" manage traffic on their wired network, they likely do engage in throttling. They are not concerned about legal issues because there are no laws barring throttling during congestion periods. So, they simply avoid a PR issue by using a different definition of throttling than you or I do and hope people are too dumb/busy to notice. To them, limiting downloads from certain sites is "reasonble network management during high congestion periods," not unreasonable throttling. They probably indescriminately throttle all websites that use a lot of bandwidth. LOL.

 

They make a big deal every other paragraph about how they are investing billions in developing their network. That emphasis works against them because it indicates that they do not have adequate bandwidth (otherwise, they wouldn't need to make such massive investments). Therefore, they must manage the congestion on their overburdened networks. Unfortunately, ATT is effectively a utility that is managed as a public company. No doubt, they do everything they can to cut costs and overcharge consumers in sneaky ways. If they didn't, they might be violating their duty to shareholders to maximize the stock price. 

 

Conclusion: ATT probably throttles specific high bandwidth websites during peak periods (by my definition, but not by their sneaky legal/PR department).

 

Does anyone else know anything relevant? Comments? Thoughts? I would be OK with whatever they do if they were honest about it. But after looking at their public disclosures for 30 minutes, I see that they have gone to great lengths to avoid any transparency on how they deal with wired congestion. It is possible that information is out there, but I don't see it in their official statements, where it should be. I really want to know how overburdened their network is and what level of throttling and what times they employ. I bet they throttle 15 hours per day rather than build more bandwidth because it saves them money. And I also bet they will never, ever tell us what they do.

Voyager

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2 Messages

11 years ago

I'm glad people are posting on this even if it is just a customer forum. I've been having the same issues for a month or so and it's really frustrating. One day I'm watching Twitch in HD andsuddenly I can barely manage 360p. I sent a PM to the customer support as suggested earlier in the thread and maybe that'll help.

 

I do have one thing to add that I recently noticed: if you have some media device (Roku, Xbox, etc) with a Twitch app, you can stream from those with much better reliability. I have a few channels I follow regularly and can usually stream high quality (with the occasional dip to medium) when I stream on my Xbox. I'm guessing High-Medium is 720p-480p so it's not the best but it works for me. Here's hoping the issue is resolved soon!

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