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johnray's profile

Mentor

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29 Messages

Saturday, January 21st, 2012 7:01 PM

At&t let a third party charge me $9.99 without my consent

I got a spam SMS from 31850 asking me to sign up for some quiz, I just ignored it, I've always heard not to reply 'STOP' to spamers because then they know your number is real and being spammers they don't care what you reply. I've seen messages on this board where people reply 'STOP' and it does no good.

 

Anyway, I just got my bill and AT&T let this "third party" (it's in quotes because they have to be in cahoots with at&t for this to happen) charge me $9.99 for their subscription. I don't have time to deal with it now but I'll probably have to take time out of my day monday call At&t.

 

I usually don't get upset over stuff but I can't believe that AT&T lets someone sign me up for a  $9.99 a month charge without consent, without a password or pin or an email or anything.

 

By the way, you are all now signed up for my subscription service.  Please read this sentence to confirm.

 

Teacher

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10 Messages

12 years ago


@wingrider01 wrote:

You did agree to something in some way shape or form, the companies have been challenged and each time they have been able to supply documentation on the agreement - do a little search engine scanning.

 

 It can be something as simple as "by taking this survey / quiz you agree to a monthly charge to be submitted to your carrier"  or By downloading this ringtone you agree to a monthly subscription charge to be added to your phone bill"

 

A great deal of evidence and actual AT&T employees staffing the AT&T customer service line refute this line of thinking. Nothing I wrote in my post is untrue, and I'm not inclined to believe that the many others posting here are either lying or as absent of recall as you imply.

 

{keep it courteous} Again, the only other conclusion is that everybody else (including AT&T reps in an *official* capacity, unlike yourself) are far less informed than your seemingly lone voice.

 

 Your drone of "must be pilot error" is becoming wearisome. If you truly want to assist, might I suggest a new course of action?

Expert

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12.2K Messages

12 years ago


@jorn_k wrote:

@wingrider01 wrote:

You did agree to something in some way shape or form, the companies have been challenged and each time they have been able to supply documentation on the agreement - do a little search engine scanning.

 

 It can be something as simple as "by taking this survey / quiz you agree to a monthly charge to be submitted to your carrier"  or By downloading this ringtone you agree to a monthly subscription charge to be added to your phone bill"

 

A great deal of evidence and actual AT&T employees staffing the AT&T customer service line refute this line of thinking. Nothing I wrote in my post is untrue, and I'm not inclined to believe that the many others posting here are either lying or as absent of recall as you imply.

 

{keep it courteous} Again, the only other conclusion is that everybody else (including AT&T reps in an *official* capacity, unlike yourself) are far less informed than your seemingly lone voice.

 

 Your drone of "must be pilot error" is becoming wearisome. If you truly want to assist, might I suggest a new course of action?


try taking a few seconds out of your busy life and do the actual research, you might find that what is being stated is actually true. No matter what you believe you did agree to it in some way shape or form, no carrier would be inane enough to add a charge from a 3rd party company without that company having some form of authorization given to the 3rd party company by you - research verizon forums, sprint forums, cricket forums, t-mobile forums, use bing / google to research the compalints filed against said companies for deceptive practices. A lot of time "pilot error" is the cause.  I know, been burned and researched it with the professionasl to verify that it happens just that way.

Guru

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737 Messages

12 years ago

Wingrider is correct.  This happened to my daughter, my husband, and my parents.  I did some research on the subject, including the companies who bill the $9.99 charges through AT&T, some of which increase to $14.99, $19.99 and so on, within a short time.  It happens will ALL the phone companies, not just AT&T.  My understanding is that the phone companies have NO CHOICE in this.  The law allows the third party billing.  A very helpful Qwest customer service representative explained it to me when I called about charges on my parents' bill about 2-3 years ago.  The phone companies don't like the charges either, since the customers get mad at them.  Whether you realize it or not, you ARE consenting to the charge when you take that quiz or survey.  My daughter had no idea that the Facebook quiz she took would result in a monthly subscription charge for $9.99.  My husband and parents never figured out what they did to incur the charges, and they did not have Facebook accounts at the time it happened.

All of our charges were removed immediately by the phone company involved, without any hassle.  We added the purchasing blocks and have had no extra charges since then, which was about 3+ years ago.  Don't blame Wingrider for being right!

Tutor

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3 Messages

12 years ago

I love all the AT&T fanboys who stick up for a company that allows this. 

 

Your ignorance astounds me. 

 

This has happened to me twice in the last month. I use my phone for business purposes ONLY. No surfing for ringtones, illicit sites, surveys. I don't have a facebook, google+, twitter or any other social networking. 

 

I don't even have it listed and a google voice number is given to everyone, which then rings where I tell it to. I only have an ATT number so that I can be reached via google voice. My number is never dirctly rung.

 

This last time customer service said I signed up for this when I was in the middle of a triathalon. My phone was in the car turned off. The first time I supposedly "signed up" was when I was at work, phone locked in car. 

 

Essentially, ATT condones this behavior because they're greedy. Their CEO is greedy and an old dinosaur in the technology world. If you don't catch this nonsense they sign you up for in 60 days, then it's permanent and they take a cut. 

 

http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/04/atandt-ceo-voices-regret-over-iphone-unlimited-data-model/

 

This is why I still receive a paper bill, pay by check and do NOT use auto-bill payment. 

 

The old saying, "A fool and his money are soon parted" comes to light here. 

 

ATT will cease being my provider if they don't stop this. 

Tutor

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3 Messages

12 years ago

lol "research forums" where other people like you spread FUD like it's manure on toast! Good idea.

Teacher

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9 Messages

12 years ago

When you said "I didn't reply to any of them".  That's where you gave consent to be charged.  If you examine the messages closely, they inform you you've been signed up and can "opt out" by replying STOP to the message.  Your lack or replying is what gave them permission (because they offered you a way to opt out I guess), hence, no reply = tacit approval to charge your account.  Even if you do reply stop, you'll likely be charged anyway, because these crooks now ignore people who respond to opt out anway....

 

It's not so much the carrier, but the 3rd party company that's at fault here, but partially it's the fault of the carrier, in so much as they don't do much to stop it, and you... yes you, are partially to blame because you did something, somewhere along the line to invite this scam upon yourself (or some mobile user on your account).  For example, filling out sweepstakes, voting by phone, entering your phone number into an unsecure website for "free" ringtones.  Basically, anything offered to you for free in exchange for some information, (i.e. name, address, phone number, email, etc), gets you onto a list which culminates with a text message from somewhere in the ether that obfuscates the fact that you've been charged.

 

None of this is accidental.  It's all carfully crafted by these scammers to play on your normal reaction to a normal situation.  For example, the text they send you is meant to easily appear to be a harmless hunk of spam that they KNOW you likely won't look at, and they trick you into it because they KNOW you THINK the charges cannot appear on your bill without your consent.   So you get the number from your carrier and you THINK you have their phone number, but you don't.  You have the number to the company that is a agregator 3rd party billing company, so you ask them for the number to the company that charged you, and the give you the number then, and you STILL don't have the number because that company has a parent company, who is the one to authorize your refund (after they sit on your money for a month or two).  That's if you get the refund.  Often times, you'll find yourself in a game of pass the buck where the carrier, the billing company, the decoy company, and the parent company are all pointing fingers at one another, or just let you yell at some poor sap in the Phillipines who says I'm sorry, can't help you, or hangs up on you because you won't quit and hang up on them.

 

I must say... I've been with AT&T for 3 years plus now, and I've NEVER ONCE had any 3rd party charge on my bill.... and I've not even install the 3rd party content block onto my account (yet, that's why I'm on the site right now).  Also, I was with T-Mobile for 5 years prior to coming to AT&T, and I never had a problem with them either.  I did get a 3rd party charge once, but it was because I entered my number into a website and got dinged for $10 bucks.  Actually the best 10 bucks I've ever spent, because it prompted me to investigate to the point where I knew how to avoid getting these charges on my bill.  I know my bill amount to the penny, and when it went up 10 cents recently, I noticed it and investigated it (The regulartory fee went up 10 cents).  Anyway, I keep waiting to get hit with something here or there, and it never has happened yet.  With the 3rd party content block in place, I'm pretty safe.

 

So now everyone knows how to avoid these charges, also check out AT&T's page on 3rd party charges too, it explains it pretty well too.

Teacher

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10 Messages

12 years ago

Wingrider, I *did* take some time from my busy schedule and did quite a bit of reserach. I posted about it already in this thread.

 

I'd add that local television stations have been conducting investigations into this situation and have come to the same conclusions: No user interaction is required for the "slammer" to add a recurring charge to one's phone bill. Again, this was confirmed by an AT&T support representative.

 

Here is a link to an example of a story from KARE11 in MInneapolis.

Teacher

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10 Messages

12 years ago

KARE11 did a follow-up to the piece linked above.  It is rather interesting.

Teacher

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10 Messages

12 years ago


 

You know what I'd like? I'd like ATT to show me the agreement they say they read in circumstances like this.



Me too. I called AT&T and asked for it. The person helping me tried not to chuckle when he said "There's no such thing."

Expert

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12.2K Messages

12 years ago


@jorn_k wrote:

Wingrider, I *did* take some time from my busy schedule and did quite a bit of reserach. I posted about it already in this thread.

 

I'd add that local television stations have been conducting investigations into this situation and have come to the same conclusions: No user interaction is required for the "slammer" to add a recurring charge to one's phone bill. Again, this was confirmed by an AT&T support representative.

 

Here is a link to an example of a story from KARE11 in MInneapolis.



they are only one of thousands of stations, consumer rights groups and other investigations that have occurred on this issue. Have seen numberous basic waysof you "agreeing" to the charge, which in turn authorizes them to bill your mobile account

 

1. download a "free" ringtone/wallpaper/etc and in the fine print of the "agreement" it states by doing this you agree to the monthly subscription

2. answer a "quiz/intellilgence test/survey" on one of the social sites which also triggers the authorization to bill by you

3. for your free update text "insert their phrase" to [enter any shortcode for texting] and what they don;t make apparent is you also agree to a monthly charges

4. you request information then you get a response "reply with the word "STOP" to cancel the X.XX a month charges - which is worded that if you DON"T text stop you agree to the monthly charge

 

Example number 4 is the example to your comment of "no user interaction is required" - if don;t do anything you are agreeing and authorizing them to bill your account, to prevent you are required to text "STOP" to the short code. So yes by your lack of interaction you agreed to the charge, this is true for the majority of the carriers

 

those are just 4 of the multitude of ways they get you to agree and they get more creative as time goes on. The Carrier, like a credit card company has no idea if the charges is valid or not, the charging company has your recieved your agreement by underhanded ways.

 

Best way to prevent this is to automaticly put a purchase block on the account and require a CVS code entered by the account holder to authorize the charges - which IS available already by carriers, it is just not automaticly applied, you have to request it. Best guess as to why it isn;t is that it is a inconvience to the account holder that actually utilzes purchases - like from the android phone and windows mobile phones.

 

As long as the company supplying the charge to the carrier can produce documentation that the end user agreed to it, the carrier will not refuse it unless there is a problem, you can pretty well be assured that all the companies out there get the end user to agree by plan english that is not read or underhanded ways. Just like a online / brick and mortar outlet will not refuse a retail purchase if the buyer has the correct authorization, as long as the authorization is there, then the purchase goes through.

 

The only thing I blame any of the carriers in this whole issue is they do not automaticly put a pin requirement on the account for purchases, require this and the companies that do the slamming will be put out of business fairly quickly, it will inconvience the account holder, but it will prevent the issue

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