Truely Unlimited Data?

---

@wingrider01 wrote:

---

@tonester wrote:

wingrider01--do you know exactly what AT&T means/meant by "acceptable use", in regards to data usage under the unlimited plan?  Is it explicitly hashed out in numbers in the ToS--i.e., if you go over 10 GB you will be flagged for violating the acceptable use part of the ToS...or is it one of those subjective definitions that only AT&T can choose to come up with at their own discretion without even having to tell the subscriber as to what exactly defines "acceptable use"?  If we're talking strictly volume of data consumed, then I'd love for you (or anyone else for that matter) try to argue strictly from a logical standpoint as to whether there is a difference in "acceptable use" in using say, 10 GB on an unlimited plan vs. using 10 GB on a tiered plan.  I mean--if I use 10 GB on an unlimted plan, it could be construed as using excessive data...but if I use 10 GB on a tiered plan, it's not excessive use of data?

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...

---

No I don't know what they consider acceptable use. More then likely it is documented in the service terms on att or you can request it from their legal - never felt the need to do it.

 

As far as your comment - about over use, if any carrier determines that the acceptable use policy is being violated then yes, the excessive use should be handled. If an unlimited user is determined to be violating the acceptable use policy the carrier has the right to determine how to handle - primarily right now other carriers are either  by soft capping the account by locking data usage to email only, allowing all protocol's but throttle the band width to 1/10 of the actual speed or actual hard capping of the account until the next billing cycle.

 

ATT took the step with people that where tethering on a plan that does not allow it by sending a cease and desist letter to the user - if they did not comply their unlimited plan was terminated and they where put on the correct plan.

 

So yes - use what you want - pay for what you use

 

 

---

A) I know you're using tethering as an example of how it may be possible to "overuse" data, but you do know it's not the only method for which lots of data can be consumed;

B) Interesting how you keep referring to "unlimited users" when mentioning about being determined for violating the acceptable use policy--is it not possible for someone on a tiered plan to violate it as well?

Yes I realize that the majority of folks who are on tiered plans aren't looking to use more than what's allotted to them, but let's be real for a moment--what percentage of users who are on unlimited plans do you think would be considered "guilty" of using way too much data?  I'm willing to bet it's a fairly small percentage; now these users may be using a greater percentage of the total amount of data used by all folks, but IMHO their impact on the overall network health isn't as severe as AT&T makes it out to be...especially when you can find dozens--if not hundreds--of anecdotal posts from users who claim that they get excellent data throughput on their smartphones.

---

@johninsj wrote:

---

@tonester wrote:

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...

---

I didn't insinuate that - it's my belief that even a metered billing sub would, if identified as a significant issue impacting others, get notified. It does no good to AT&T to get a few hundred bucks off one sub which degrades a tower (for example) month after month, for all the other users on that tower.

 

But as I said, the wording is ambiguous, and applies to everyone. The *likelihood* is that the costs associated with even using 10GB/mo are sufficiently high on the metered plan as to dissuade most subscribers from consuming it, month after month, while an unlimited user would feel free to do so - which might be viewed as abuse or cause ongoing tower performance issues - but that's all conjecture.

 

Legally, we all agree to allow AT&T to define abuse as they see fit, and we're bound by whatever they decide.

---

LOL--an unlimited user using so much data so as to possibly cause tower performance issues?  I never would have guessed it, given all the pro-AT&T comments about how their network is the "fastest-this" and the "best-that"...combined with all them posts from users about how they NEVER have any connectivity and/or throughput issues with pulling data on their smartphones.

Yes for an unlimited data plan user it's easy not to be dissuaded from using lots of data but to be fair, they pay more per month than the majority of those users on tiered plans ($30 vs. $25)...so the somewhat-rhetorical question that may be asked is this--how much data would be considered a fair amount (i.e., without anyone questioning as to whether the amount used would be considered "abuse") for someone on an unlimited plan?

---

@tonester wrote:

---

@wingrider01 wrote:

---

@tonester wrote:

wingrider01--do you know exactly what AT&T means/meant by "acceptable use", in regards to data usage under the unlimited plan?  Is it explicitly hashed out in numbers in the ToS--i.e., if you go over 10 GB you will be flagged for violating the acceptable use part of the ToS...or is it one of those subjective definitions that only AT&T can choose to come up with at their own discretion without even having to tell the subscriber as to what exactly defines "acceptable use"?  If we're talking strictly volume of data consumed, then I'd love for you (or anyone else for that matter) try to argue strictly from a logical standpoint as to whether there is a difference in "acceptable use" in using say, 10 GB on an unlimited plan vs. using 10 GB on a tiered plan.  I mean--if I use 10 GB on an unlimted plan, it could be construed as using excessive data...but if I use 10 GB on a tiered plan, it's not excessive use of data?

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...

---

No I don't know what they consider acceptable use. More then likely it is documented in the service terms on att or you can request it from their legal - never felt the need to do it.

 

As far as your comment - about over use, if any carrier determines that the acceptable use policy is being violated then yes, the excessive use should be handled. If an unlimited user is determined to be violating the acceptable use policy the carrier has the right to determine how to handle - primarily right now other carriers are either  by soft capping the account by locking data usage to email only, allowing all protocol's but throttle the band width to 1/10 of the actual speed or actual hard capping of the account until the next billing cycle.

 

ATT took the step with people that where tethering on a plan that does not allow it by sending a cease and desist letter to the user - if they did not comply their unlimited plan was terminated and they where put on the correct plan.

 

So yes - use what you want - pay for what you use

 

 

---

A) I know you're using tethering as an example of how it may be possible to "overuse" data, but you do know it's not the only method for which lots of data can be consumed;

 

B) Interesting how you keep referring to "unlimited users" when mentioning about being determined for violating the acceptable use policy--is it not possible for someone on a tiered plan to violate it as well?

 

Yes I realize that the majority of folks who are on tiered plans aren't looking to use more than what's allotted to them, but let's be real for a moment--what percentage of users who are on unlimited plans do you think would be considered "guilty" of using way too much data?  I'm willing to bet it's a fairly small percentage; now these users may be using a greater percentage of the total amount of data used by all folks, but IMHO their impact on the overall network health isn't as severe as AT&T makes it out to be...especially when you can find dozens--if not hundreds--of anecdotal posts from users who claim that they get excellent data throughput on their smartphones.

---

well aware of the simple fact that other things can cause excesive use - there was a thread here about someone streaming blue tooth audio to the car that got the warning letter, suspect that carriers are going into a hard lock enforcement mode - the wailing, gnashing of teeth and screaming of how unfair, what big thieves mobile carriers are will reverberate through out the internet at that point. If it already occuring on the carriers that are enforcing their soft cap and hard cap policies on "unlimited data" users

---

@johninsj wrote:

 

---

@tonester wrote:

---

@johninsj wrote:

---

@tonester wrote:

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...

---

I didn't insinuate that - it's my belief that even a metered billing sub would, if identified as a significant issue impacting others, get notified. It does no good to AT&T to get a few hundred bucks off one sub which degrades a tower (for example) month after month, for all the other users on that tower.

 

But as I said, the wording is ambiguous, and applies to everyone. The *likelihood* is that the costs associated with even using 10GB/mo are sufficiently high on the metered plan as to dissuade most subscribers from consuming it, month after month, while an unlimited user would feel free to do so - which might be viewed as abuse or cause ongoing tower performance issues - but that's all conjecture.

 

Legally, we all agree to allow AT&T to define abuse as they see fit, and we're bound by whatever they decide.

---

LOL--an unlimited user using so much data so as to possibly cause tower performance issues?  I never would have guessed it, given all the pro-AT&T comments about how their network is the "fastest-this" and the "best-that"...combined with all them posts from users about how they NEVER have any connectivity and/or throughput issues with pulling data on their smartphones.

 

Yes for an unlimited data plan user it's easy not to be dissuaded from using lots of data but to be fair, they pay more per month than the majority of those users on tiered plans ($30 vs. $25)...so the somewhat-rhetorical question that may be asked is this--how much data would be considered a fair amount (i.e., without anyone questioning as to whether the amount used would be considered "abuse") for someone on an unlimited plan?

---

Do you have any idea how 3G cellular data works? You could service tens or hundreds of thousands of data requests in the same slot as one user consumes streaming video for an hour. Towers aren't magical fountians of bandwidth nor do they have infinite capacity for simultanious access.

 

---

Yes, I realize that towers can only support so many connections at a given time; my point was that whenever someone complains about their data service being slow, etc....maybe they should be given a little slack for their complaints instead of having to read replies from the AT&T fanboys insinuating that what they're experiencing (poor 3G service) can't possible be true.  Then again--some of these folks who continue to tout about how great their 3G service is (heck, in fact I think may even belong in that group--I can't recall coming across a single post of yours where you commented on how 3G service on your phone was less than exemplary) wouldn't really know if what you said about towers is indeed valid in the real world.

I also don't quite get the point you're trying to make when you mentioned about how thousands of data requests can be served in the same slot that someone consumes by streaming video (for an hour); should people not stream video because by doing so they're taking away thousands of data requests that can otherwise be used by other folks?  Sheesh, give me a break--I didn't realize users were expected to be considerate towards other folks' data access when choosing to stream video  It's not their fault that Apple allows apps that are capable of allowing video to be streamed over 3G; last I checked, it wasn't explicitly against the ToS to stream a 1-hour Netflix video (or any type of video, for that matter) over 3G...

And that leads us back to my point earlier:

Namely that because "excessive usage" is so ambiguously defined, so nebulously explained when it comes to non-infraction usage (any type of usage not explicitly defined as verbotten such as tethering without a tethering plan) it in effect is impossible to know if/when you're exceeding the AUP or ToS with AT&T.

Net effect:  It's truly unlimmited data until AT&T decides whatever you're doing isn't to their liking and notifies you.

---

@DimentoGraven wrote:

And that leads us back to my point earlier:

 

Namely that because "excessive usage" is so ambiguously defined, so nebulously explained when it comes to non-infraction usage (any type of usage not explicitly defined as verbotten such as tethering without a tethering plan) it in effect is impossible to know if/when you're exceeding the AUP or ToS with AT&T.

 

Net effect:  It's truly unlimmited data until AT&T decides whatever you're doing isn't to their liking and notifies you.

---

No. Net effect: we are all bound by the terms of the contracts we sign. Even if we don't like them, don't understand them, or don't bother to read them before we sign up for service.

Did you have a nice memorial day break?

---

@johninsj wrote:

 

No. Net effect: we are all bound by the terms of the contracts we sign. Even if we don't like them, don't understand them, or don't bother to read them before we sign up for service.

 

Did you have a nice memorial day break?

---

You're stating this, I assume, under the theory of the vague AUP term of, what was it...  something like, '...usage that doesn't interfere with other customers...'  is the basis of this response.  So as long as whatever we're doing can't be linked to any issues other users are having, we're ok, right?

So that unfortunately sets up a situation where a person in a 'low usage' cell can stream 24 hours a day every day on his 'unlimmited' plan as, in his 'low usage' cell, no other users will be affected and therefore be in compliance with the AUP, where a person in a 'high usage' cell would be considered to be violating AUP if he streamed just one hour a day on his 'unlimmited' plan.

So what we're saying is that whether or not I can even be in compliance with AT&T's poorly defined AUP and ToS is based on AT&T's ability to provide service to me and other customers in my area, and based on AT&T's opinion of what I'm doing at the time.

If I'm wrong point me to the specifics in the AUP or ToS that show it.

Another interesting thing to me in all this is the following scenario:  A theoretical person who's on a teired plan and decides to ALSO stream video/music 24x7, happily paying the huge bill he would generate.  Let's say you have a tiered plan user and an 'unlimmited' plan user both doing this on a 'high usage' tower.  Are both users subject to the SAME ildefined AUP and ToS?

---

@DimentoGraven wrote:

---

@johninsj wrote:

 

No. Net effect: we are all bound by the terms of the contracts we sign. Even if we don't like them, don't understand them, or don't bother to read them before we sign up for service.

 

Did you have a nice memorial day break?

---

You're stating this, I assume, under the theory of the vague AUP term of, what was it...  something like, '...usage that doesn't interfere with other customers...'  is the basis of this response.  So as long as whatever we're doing can't be linked to any issues other users are having, we're ok, right?

 

So that unfortunately sets up a situation where a person in a 'low usage' cell can stream 24 hours a day every day on his 'unlimmited' plan as, in his 'low usage' cell, no other users will be affected and therefore be in compliance with the AUP, where a person in a 'high usage' cell would be considered to be violating AUP if he streamed just one hour a day on his 'unlimmited' plan.

 

So what we're saying is that whether or not I can even be in compliance with AT&T's poorly defined AUP and ToS is based on AT&T's ability to provide service to me and other customers in my area, and based on AT&T's opinion of what I'm doing at the time.

 

If I'm wrong point me to the specifics in the AUP or ToS that show it.

 

Another interesting thing to me in all this is the following scenario:  A theoretical person who's on a teired plan and decides to ALSO stream video/music 24x7, happily paying the huge bill he would generate.  Let's say you have a tiered plan user and an 'unlimmited' plan user both doing this on a 'high usage' tower.  Are both users subject to the SAME ildefined AUP and ToS?

---

I think I already know what the reply is going to be based on--namely, if you do whatever AT&T decides in their own way is not in their own best interests, they're gonna call you on it.  Doesn't matter if you're on an unlimited data plan or a tiered plan, and/or whether you use 1 GB or 10 GB--if they don't like how you're using the data, they're gonna let you know about it.  Too bad they feel that they're not obligated to spell out in the ToS exactly what it is they prefer that you not do...

The bottom line that folks like johninsj are insinuating is this--no matter how ill-defined the ToS is...since you agreed to it, you have to abide by it.

---

tonester wrote:

 

I think I already know what the reply is going to be based on--namely, if you do whatever AT&T decides in their own way is not in their own best interests, they're gonna call you on it.  Doesn't matter if you're on an unlimited data plan or a tiered plan, and/or whether you use 1 GB or 10 GB--if they don't like how you're using the data, they're gonna let you know about it.  Too bad they feel that they're not obligated to spell out in the ToS exactly what it is they prefer that you not do...

 

The bottom line that folks like johninsj are insinuating is this--no matter how ill-defined the ToS is...since you agreed to it, you have to abide by it.

---

Sorry but that doesn't fly.  The problem that will occur for AT&T in this country, because we're so explative litigious, is that without it being defined, what is CURRENTLY in compliance with AUP, AT&T can suddenly change their mind and say "No, it's not".  This smacks of 'bait-and-switch' type scams, especially since, without some sort of definition, there's really no way for us users to ensure we're going to continue to NOT violate AT&T's policies, without a "definition" or a "defined set of rules", there's no way for us users to play the game.

Now, your arrogantly ignorant respon se of "...you agreed to it, you have to abide by it..."  I know for a fact that less than 1% of the users have ever read their ToS or AUP, I know darn well that YOU haven't, also as there is precedent that since AT&T can't demonstrate that:

A.  They adequately informed us of what we were signing

B.  That what we signed at the time is what AT&T is currently attempting to enforce

C.  Their rules are adequately defined such that a reasonable person could explain, understand, and avoid breaking them

Well, let's just say that class action lawyers love this sort of thing, when I get my notification, I'll be sure and sign my name to it for sure.