XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

Contributor

XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

I just got Uverse yesterday. I discovered that my NAT is moderate, which prevents me from joining my friends in games. I tried forwarding all the ports that microsoft reccomends... hasn't worked. Any input?

Message 1 of 45 (65,422 Views)
Professor

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

We never had any issues with the 2wire gateway and my son's Xbox 360 or PS3. First remove all the ports that Microsoft recommended to be forwarded, they are not needed.

And yes NAT will be moderate, because the 2-Wire does not use UPnP, which is a huge security risk, with holes that have not been fixed in years.

Just shut everything down, then reboot the gateway, let it sync. Then boot any computers, let them sync with the gateway. When you turn on the Xbox, do a network setup, and let it go through the setup and that should be it.

Keep in mind also with recent changes Microsoft made to their Xbox Live system, they have implemented certain restrictions, that you have to pay for a Gold membership to utilize.
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"Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!

Stimpy: So what'll happen?

Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?"
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Message 2 of 45 (63,684 Views)
Scholar

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

Greg is right that the 2Wire does not support UPnP and that is why it doesn't work with xbox live right out of the box.

However, you can say a lot of things have security risks like many of the Adobe plugins Flash and Reader. Doesn't mean everyone is going to stop using them. Sometimes it is a necessary evil in some situations.

So unlike what Greg said do not remove all the ports that are forwarded. You will need to them get it so you have a NAT Open status with xbox live. I ran into this same issue with my Airport Extreme since it doesn't support UPnP but a variant NAT-PMP.

However do need to ensure that you have all the right ports forwarded.
This MS page lists all the ports that you need to forward for UDP and TCP.
http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live/connecting/network-ports-used-xbox-live

Also make sure that you have these forwarding to the correct IP for the xbox. You may want to setup your xbox with a static ip to ensure it doesn't happen to change later.

Give that a shot first and see how it works out for you.
Message 3 of 45 (63,669 Views)
Professor

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

nephlpower, you do not need to open any ports on the 2-wire or NVG510 for the game systems to work. The firewall will open those ports as it sees need to. Otherwise they stay stealth closed, and even opened, they still remain in stealth mode.

Placing them open all of the time, leaves you for huge security breaches in your network.
________________________________________________________________

"Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!

Stimpy: So what'll happen?

Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?"
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Message 4 of 45 (63,663 Views)
Highlighted
Scholar

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

No greg you are wrong. That is why the OP posted. SOME of the functionality of xbox may work but situations like he posted about not being able to join a game a friend is hosting is a problem you run into when your NAT status on Xbox Live is Moderate.

I have personally run into the same situation above and Microsoft also specifically warns that you will loose functionality if your NAT status is not Open. Just because your Son hasn't run into the problems with having a moderate NAT status and hasn't bugged you about it doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.
Message 5 of 45 (63,661 Views)
Professor

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

Sorry, but if you follow Microsoft's instructions, it will leave you open for open ports on your firewall. I have hooked up hundreds of systems, and never had a issue with leaving it as is, and they work.

All you have to do is disregard the whole NAT "Moderate" issue, and you will be fine. The games will work just fine with leaving them as is.
________________________________________________________________

"Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!

Stimpy: So what'll happen?

Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?"
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Message 6 of 45 (63,651 Views)
Mentor

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

[ Edited ]

gregzoll_1 wrote:
Sorry, but if you follow Microsoft's instructions, it will leave you open for open ports on your firewall. I have hooked up hundreds of systems, and never had a issue with leaving it as is, and they work.

All you have to do is disregard the whole NAT "Moderate" issue, and you will be fine. The games will work just fine with leaving them as is.

If Microsoft believed opening ports for the Xbox were a security issue, they wouldn't tell you to do it. Here's a post from a guy on the Xbox forums that explains why you should open up just the ports Microsoft identifies (and forward to the Xbox only), and why it's not a security risk. He also explains why you may sometimes be able to play with others on Xbox Live even if your NAT is set to strict or moderate.

 

http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_support/f/9/t/157383.aspx

Message 7 of 45 (63,618 Views)
Professor

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

That info is dated, and is no longer valid, since the changes that have been made in the firmware for the xbox-360 platform, and the firmware for routers have been updated, due to changes that have happened since 2011.
________________________________________________________________

"Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!

Stimpy: So what'll happen?

Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?"
________________________________________________________________
Message 8 of 45 (63,581 Views)
Scholar

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open


gregzoll_1 wrote:
That info is dated, and is no longer valid, since the changes that have been made in the firmware for the xbox-360 platform, and the firmware for routers have been updated, due to changes that have happened since 2011.

Ponzi obviously we are all wrong because it if gregzoll doesn't agree with us then we must be wrong Smiley Happy 

 

Despite having evidence to show the contrary he just can't seem to understand the concept of Xbox Live various levels of NAT and how that could conceiveable make it so you can't use some functionality on some online games.

Message 9 of 45 (63,573 Views)
Professor

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

I fully understand the concept of NAT more than you probably do. With the gaming systems, you do not need to open ports, unless, unless you are running something like Smoothwall third party router software, due to that is about the only one out there that you would have to open ports, and stealth them.

With the 2-wire gateways, you cannot stealth ports after opening, but when the rig is connected to the RG, it will actually open and close ports as needed, regardless that it does not have UPnP.

You have to understand, there are some of us out there that know a little more about this stuff, and when we state that you do not have to open ports for the Xbox-360 or PS3 on the RG, in order to use it. Only if you have made some really obscure changes to the firewall on the RG beforehand, or have some weird hookup between the xbox-360 & ps3 back to the RG, then you are going to have problems.

Believe it or not, the standard ports are already listed in the firewall, and only way that you would have to go back and add them back in, is if you or someone else deleted them out of the firewall, then yes you would have problems.
________________________________________________________________

"Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!

Stimpy: So what'll happen?

Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?"
________________________________________________________________
Message 10 of 45 (63,559 Views)
Mentor

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open


gregzoll_1 wrote:
That info is dated, and is no longer valid, since the changes that have been made in the firmware for the xbox-360 platform, and the firmware for routers have been updated, due to changes that have happened since 2011.

Greg, exactly what firmware changes did Microsoft make since 2011 that would have rendered this info outdated? I've checked all of the system software update descriptions for updates that Microsoft released in 2011 and afterwards, and I didn't see any that would pertain to the port-forwarding issue. In general, very few of the Xbox 360 system software updates include firmware updates, and if they do they may just apply to updating the firmware on the DVD drive. Here's a quote from Wikipedia on the subject: "While the system software updates may sometimes provide updates to the system's firmware, it is unlikely that this occurs with many, if any, updates."

 

As of today, Microsoft still includes the port forwarding recommendations mentioned in the post I linked above. If Microsoft released a firmware update that would have rendered this info obsolete, it's unlikely their Xbox support site would still make this recommendation.

 

Only a little off topic: I recently had a hardware problem with my Xbox that was solved on the phone with Microsoft technical support. The tech was U.S. based and spent almost an hour with me to narrow the issue down and identify the culprit. I was very impressed with the level of service. If the original poster is still monitoring this thread, he might try giving Microsoft support a call.

Message 11 of 45 (63,545 Views)
Professor

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

They have updated a lot due to kinect, and because technology has changed over the past couple years.
________________________________________________________________

"Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!

Stimpy: So what'll happen?

Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?"
________________________________________________________________
Message 12 of 45 (63,534 Views)
Mentor

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open


gregzoll_1 wrote:
They have updated a lot due to kinect, and because technology has changed over the past couple years.

OK, that's a generally true statement. But you didn't answer the question I posed.

 

Exactly which Xbox updates released since 2011 would have rendered Microsoft's current recommendations about port-forwarding outdated? That's your claim. If you can't support the claim you made with any specificity, then you shouldn't discourage people from following Microsoft's own recommendations to solve NAT problems.

Message 13 of 45 (63,528 Views)

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open


Ponzi wrote:

gregzoll_1 wrote:
They have updated a lot due to kinect, and because technology has changed over the past couple years.

OK, that's a generally true statement. But you didn't answer the question I posed.

 

Exactly which Xbox updates released since 2011 would have rendered Microsoft's current recommendations about port-forwarding outdated? That's your claim. If you can't support the claim you made with any specificity, then you shouldn't discourage people from following Microsoft's own recommendations to solve NAT problems.


I don't have an XBox, but I would definately follow microsoft's recommendation since it's their product.

” Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports … all others are games.”- Ernest Hemingway
Message 14 of 45 (63,527 Views)
Professor

Re: XBox Live problem - 2wire NAT is not open

I wouldn't, because first it is not Microsoft's recommendation, and two it is Microsoft. Nothing really more to say, than itheir products are no more secure than leaving food out on the table, when you are in an area that is known for bear attacks. Pretty much the same concept, called common sense.
________________________________________________________________

"Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool!

Stimpy: So what'll happen?

Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?"
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Message 15 of 45 (63,527 Views)