Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

Tutor

Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

Hello,

 

I have a 2Wire 3801 Uverse router and want to connect a better router for our home network (802.11n with GigE ports).  Short rant here…  it is very puzzling to me how AT&T continues to provide dinosaur RG units (802.11g with 10/100).  Anyone have a good explanation as to why?

 

I don’t mind getting my hands dirty with all of this – I sell semiconductors to PC OEM’s – but I am not heavily network saavy.  So, I have some questions, and I would like a recommended instruction.

 

There are two broadband ports on the back of the 3801 router – DSL and ONT.  Can I (and should I) plug my secondary router’s upstream port into one of these?  And, are these really “broadband” ports?  I am really hoping to avoid plugging the secondary router upstream into a 10/100 downstream on the 3801.  With the new router, everything in the home network will be faster, transfers between PC’s, NAS, wireless, etc., but with only 10/100 upstream all of the internet pipes will be limited.

 

Now, here’s what I’d like a recommended instruction on:  I understand that there are two modes that I can connect these two boxes together in, with the 3801 RG as a modem, or in bridge mode.  I’ve seen 2-wire instructions on-line but it looks like AT&T’s GUI/firmware is different.  The only choice that even comes close in my GUI is to “enable detection of router-behind-router conditions”.  There is also a choice for adding a “cascaded router” on the broadband link configuration page.

 

How would you recommend I connect the two boxes, and in what mode?

 

I have a couple of TV’s in our home Uverse network.  They don’t physically connect to the 3801, but are HPNA devices on the network.  I assume they will not be affected when I put the 3801 into bridge or modem mode, correct?

 

(By the way, FW version on my 3801 is 6.9.1.42-enh.tm)

 

Thank you for any help and insight you can provide,

 

Todd

Houston, TX

Message 1 of 14 (10,810 Views)
Tutor

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

I just saw several posts about the new Uverse router, the NVG589. I'll contact Uverse to see if they can replace my 3801 with it.

Message 2 of 14 (10,800 Views)
Highlighted
ACE - Expert
Solution
Accepted by JefferMC (ACE - Expert)
‎09-30-2015 1:39 AM

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

1) AT&T is coming out with new Residential Gateways now.  The new ones do have 802.11n.

 

2) The ONT port is for connecting to the Optical Network Terminal for a FTTP (Fiber to the Premise) installation.  Don't mess with that port.

 

3) The DSL port is how the RG gets the VDSL2 signal.  Your router cannot process signal, you have to leave that port connected to the RG.  You will connect your device to one of the four Ethernet (LAN) ports on the RG.

 

You have the option of using your Router as a router or as a wireless access point (depending on what you need it to do).  Please look at see post 2 in this thread and/or see post 13 in this thread for more information.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 3 of 14 (10,785 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

Something I missed covering on my earlier reply... if all your in home equipment is connected to your router/switch/access point and that is connected to the RG, as you said they will be communicating at high speed.

 

Having a bandwidth higher than 100 Mbps to the RG is pointless, as your absolute maximum High Speed Internet traffic at this time is 24 Mbps.  With the 100 Mbps full duplex link, there will be all the room in the world and some left over.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 4 of 14 (10,783 Views)
Tutor

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

Thank you JefferMC, excellent input!  And, good point on the incoming data rate at the front end of the RG.  I remember hearing that the 24Mbps is max and that a signifcant portion of that is reserved for the TV, is that right?  You also said that "there will be all the room in the world and some left over".  Do you know what AT&T's plans are, if any, in the near term, for increasing the 24Mbps rate?  If none near term, then you're right, 100Mbps is sufficient.

 

Also, the new Uverse router is 802.11n but only single band, so it may make more sense just to use my own dual band N600 router.  I'll use it as router and not AP since I also want to use the GigE wired ports.

 

Thanks, Todd

Message 5 of 14 (10,745 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

[ Edited ]

You can use those GigE LAN ports even in Access Point mode, you just give up one of them (the one hooked to the RG, where as in router mode you'd use the WAN port to connect to the RG).

 

The connection between your RG and the neighborhood VRAD will be set up as either 32/5 (down/up) or 25/3.  The profile will be selected once the technician sees what speed your line will handle.  That "pipe" has to handle Voice, IPTV and HSI.  So, it is possible for TV viewing/recording to reduce the amount of bandwidth available for High Speed Internet, as they are prioritized in that order.  Each SD stream takes just under 2 Mbps, and each HD stream just under 6 Mbps.  You may want to consider this when picking how much HSI you want to pay for.

 

AT&T is currently conducting trials in two states of increased profiles and HSI products.  None of the speeds being tested so far will cause you to have to re-think the 100 Mbps issue.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 6 of 14 (10,728 Views)
Tutor

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

[ Edited ]

Thanks again JefferMC, this is a very helpful discussion. This afternoon, I mapped out all of our devices, PCs, TVs, etc., with bit rates for each, both wired and wireless. I was surprised - unless I'm missing something fundamental here - that many of the devices may not benefit from 802.11n and GigE. The only one that seems to have a big impact is the NAS, if I can get GigE into and out of, then backups and access to music and videos will be faster. But none of the internet connections will be any faster, is that right?

Message 7 of 14 (10,687 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

I am not surprised at your findings.  GigE is nice for full backups and things like that, but overkill for streaming video/audio, web browsing, etc.  Yes, I'd put my NAS and my PC's that I back up a lot on GigE (assuming they have GigE ports).

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 8 of 14 (10,640 Views)
Tutor

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

Thanks again JefferMC.  Again, a very helpful dialog and thread!

Message 9 of 14 (10,599 Views)
Tutor

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

Hi JefferMC,

 

Another question for you.

 

From the standpoint of internet security and home network security, are there any advantages to a router-behind-router configuration vs. single router/RG?

 

Thank you,

 

Todd

Message 10 of 14 (10,525 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

You could have more flexibility in your security settings with a router behind the RG.  Examples would be:

  • Traffic Filtering by address (or user)
  • Time of Day Filtering
  • UPnP feature (though I'd not recommend it)
  • Guest Wireless Network (alternate SSID with different security)

Of course, you'd have to buy a router that supports any of these features to actually employ them.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 11 of 14 (10,461 Views)
Tutor

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

Thanks JefferMC!

Message 12 of 14 (10,433 Views)
Tutor

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

I've tried setting up DMZPlus and it worked great except for the fact that I was unable to see the Uverse box from the Uverse iPhone app. Am I missing something? Maybe I need to set up my Airport Extreme as a "cascaded router" or "additional router" on the broadband link configuration page? I have searched and searched and still haven't found any information about what those settings even do. I really want to keep using my Airport Extreme because it makes my old crappy printer wireless and provides remote access to the router and Macs at my house using my iCloud account. Any ideas?
Message 13 of 14 (9,924 Views)
Teacher

Re: Router behind router, 3801 RG as modem or in bridge mode?

[ Edited ]

Yeah we have a "g" router I tried getting replaced. They said they were on back order last year. The router sucks. Wired everything is fine. Wireless however is bad. Super slow. Just bought my own ac router and will be shutting down that piece of crap.

 

[Inappropriate content removed]

Message 14 of 14 (3,154 Views)