PIcking up the phone causes a retrain

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PIcking up the phone causes a retrain

I have U-verse TV and internet, plus POTS.  For the last few months I've been having intermittent problems with internet dropping out and TV freezing, both associated with gateway retrains.  Until recently there was itnermittenly a lot of static on the POTS line, which I assumed was also the cause of the retrains.  The static was finally fixed about a week ago, but the retrains are continuing.  The balun, lightning protector, gateway, and power supply have all been replaced.

 

For the last  few days I've noticed that the gateway sometimes retrains when I pick up the phone.  At first I thought it was just chance, but it's happened way too often for that -- 4 times in the last two days.  The prem tech who's been working on my problems hadn't heard of this, so I thought I'd ask here and see if anybody's had this problem or knows of a solution.

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oobleck

Message 1 of 14 (1,575 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain

oobleck - What was the cause of the static? Was it repaired or did it just go away?

 

Sounds like the POTS and U-verse are getting together in a bad way.

 

Crossed wire in the NID? Do you have pair bonding?

 

Are the POTS and U-verse on the same drop or different drops? If the same is it the balun that seperates the service? Maybe a second bad balun.

 

Any chance the POTS wiring and the U_verse wiring in your house are crossed? The wiring itself or an RG connection to a POTS wall jack?

 

One way to troubleshoot is to eliminate as much as possible - like all the house phone wiring - try it with just one connection.

 

Do you know all your wiring ? I have NID to RG COAX also feeding other TVs via diolexer and splitter. DVr is cat5 to RG. POTS has one connection to NID to connecting block terminating all wall jacks.

 

I could open up the one POTS wire to the NID & see if the problem still occurs - to eliminate a cross in the house wiring.

 

What about the possibility of a problem back at the VRAD/cross-connect box?

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 2 of 14 (1,571 Views)
ACE - Master

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain

I have the same services as you.  Uverse, HSI, and POTS line.  The first and only time I had this issue with the RG dropping,  to include the static on the POTS, I called repair and a I&R tech showed up.  He found no static at the X-Box but when he got to the house he had static.  He ended up digging around where the buried cable came up out of the ground and found a shoddy splice (scotch locks and some tape)  someone did who knows how long ago.  I have been in my house 27 years and don't ever remember anyone splicing anything so it could have been there from day one. 

 

Anyway, he used an actual splice kit to terminate everything and static gone.  He also found the ONI/NID was not properly grounded.  There was a ground rod preset in the ground, clamp and all, but the ground wire from the ONI was just pushed into the dirt about a foot.  He just pulled on the ground wire and up it came.  He then properly grounded the ONI to the ground rod and I haven't had an issue since.  My sync rate went up on the RG and I now have almost no errors.  I'm about 1300 feet from the VRAD according to UVRT.

 

Not saying this is your solution but thought I would share what fixed mine.  This was maybe 2 years ago this happened.

"If you find this post helpful and it solved your issue please mark it as a solution.  This will help other forum members locate it and will also let everyone know that it corrected your problem. If they have the same issue they will know how to solve theirs"

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 3 of 14 (1,550 Views)
Scholar

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain


aviewer wrote:

oobleck - What was the cause of the static? Was it repaired or did it just go away?

 

There were several attempts by I&M to fix it, but neither the prem tech nor I know what they did.  I'm assuming they actually fixed it because it had been going on for months, so I'd be real surprised if it went away by itself. 

 

Sounds like the POTS and U-verse are getting together in a bad way.

 

Crossed wire in the NID? Do you have pair bonding?

 

No, just the regular U-verse connection.  The insides of the NID have been inspected and replaced multiple times.

 

Are the POTS and U-verse on the same drop or different drops? If the same is it the balun that seperates the service? Maybe a second bad balun.

 

They're on the same drop.  I suggested to the prem tech that the balun might be bad, since as far as I know that's what separates the data and POTS signals.  My guess is that the next thing he does will be to replace the balun again.

 

Any chance the POTS wiring and the U_verse wiring in your house are crossed? The wiring itself or an RG connection to a POTS wall jack?

 

If so I'd think the tech would have spotted it -- he seems pretty good.  As far as I know nothing has been changed inside the house in ages.  If a phone were plugged into the RG jack and vice-versa would it even work?

 

One way to troubleshoot is to eliminate as much as possible - like all the house phone wiring - try it with just one connection.

 

The static was definitely outside the house -- I connected a phone to the demarc and still had it.  Haven't tried that lately to see if it causes retrains, but since it doesn't most of the time I don't know how much that would tell me.  I'll give it a shot, though.

 

Do you know all your wiring ? I have NID to RG COAX also feeding other TVs via diolexer and splitter. DVr is cat5 to RG. POTS has one connection to NID to connecting block terminating all wall jacks.

 

My system is as simple as it gets -- all CAT5, with only one receiver.  The POTS goes straight from the NID to the old lightning arrestor in the basement, where it connects to the original phone wiring.

 

I could open up the one POTS wire to the NID & see if the problem still occurs - to eliminate a cross in the house wiring.

 

What about the possibility of a problem back at the VRAD/cross-connect box?

 

I think they've changed me to a different port.  I'll probably suggest they try a different pair from my drop to the VRAD, if there are any available, as well as another port.  Maybe somebody screwed something in the VRAD while connecting somebody else, since the phone/retrain thing just started.


The last thing the prem tech did was replace the RG yesterday.  It worked perfectly for at least 14 hours -- long enough to get my hopes up -- but overnight the retrains started again, including another when I picked up the phone in the morning.  Two more since then, but none caused by the phone. 

 

Thanks for the good ideas.

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oobleck

Message 4 of 14 (1,542 Views)
Scholar

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain


BeeBeeSA wrote:

Anyway, he used an actual splice kit to terminate everything and static gone.  He also found the ONI/NID was not properly grounded.  There was a ground rod preset in the ground, clamp and all, but the ground wire from the ONI was just pushed into the dirt about a foot.  He just pulled on the ground wire and up it came.  He then properly grounded the ONI to the ground rod and I haven't had an issue since.  My sync rate went up on the RG and I now have almost no errors.  I'm about 1300 feet from the VRAD according to UVRT.

 

Not saying this is your solution but thought I would share what fixed mine.  This was maybe 2 years ago this happened.


Thanks.  I&M has gone over all my connections several times, and I think they finally fixed the static; at least I don't hear it any more.  Unfortunately I don't know what they did to fix it -- maybe voodoo, for all I know.  All my wiring is above ground, and the static was audible at the demarc, so I know the problem wasn't in the house.  They put in a new ground when they first installed U-verse, and it seems to be in good shape as far as I can tell.

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oobleck

Message 5 of 14 (1,540 Views)
Employee

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain

The one thing that comes to mind, based on what you are saying, have they replaced the splitter filter at the NID.  I can't give you the specific part number they should have used depending on what region you are in.  The biggest thing I can think of is that if you open your NID and the splitter filter is the size of two modules, then it probably needs to be swapped as some of them had issues with causing loss of signal when POTS goes off hook.  Just a thought based on what you said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s positions, strategies or opinions.

Employee Contributor*
*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions.
Message 6 of 14 (1,528 Views)
Scholar

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain


unrtechie wrote:

The one thing that comes to mind, based on what you are saying, have they replaced the splitter filter at the NID.  I can't give you the specific part number they should have used depending on what region you are in.  The biggest thing I can think of is that if you open your NID and the splitter filter is the size of two modules, then it probably needs to be swapped as some of them had issues with causing loss of signal when POTS goes off hook.  Just a thought based on what you said.



Thanks, I'll show this to the tech next time he comes out.  Is that the same as the balun?  That was replaced several weeks ago, quite a while before I noticed that POTS was causing dropouts.

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oobleck

Message 7 of 14 (1,517 Views)
Contributor

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain

Your splitter filter either at the SNI or in the huose may have failed.   The Balun attaches to the Data side ( yellow and black holes or screws ) of the splittler filter. The home run could also be bad.  Have the Tech check the COAX abilty to carry data with his JDSU and also check for corrision.  Corrision can present as a powder underneath the outer jacket of the COAX; the fitting may have to be removed to inspect.  If you had Comcast previously, sometimes the signal boosters they use get plugged back in; it looks like a transformer brick with coax coming out the bottom.  If you have a sgnal booster, ask the Tech to remove it.  

Message 8 of 14 (1,485 Views)
Scholar

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain


Peteconrad wrote:

Your splitter filter either at the SNI or in the huose may have failed.   The Balun attaches to the Data side ( yellow and black holes or screws ) of the splittler filter. The home run could also be bad.  Have the Tech check the COAX abilty to carry data with his JDSU and also check for corrision.  Corrision can present as a powder underneath the outer jacket of the COAX; the fitting may have to be removed to inspect.  If you had Comcast previously, sometimes the signal boosters they use get plugged back in; it looks like a transformer brick with coax coming out the bottom.  If you have a sgnal booster, ask the Tech to remove it.  


Is the balun different from the splitter filter?  When the tech was here the other day I asked him, and he said they're the same thing.  The balun has been replaced several times -- that's usually the first thing they try.  There isn't any coax; it's all CAT5.

 

Two days ago the tech replaced the balun and everything else in the NID, it looked like.  He also replaced the 3800 gateway with a 3801, which he said is supposed to work better on longer loops -- mine is about 2600 feet, as I recall.  There were two retrains within the first 8 hours or so (one when I picked up a phone), then no more for almost two days.  I was thinking it was working much better, but just now I picked up a phone and it caused another retrain.  Smiley Mad

 

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oobleck

Message 9 of 14 (1,476 Views)
ACE - Expert

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain

oobleck _ do you have wireless turned on & a wireless phone?? Can you try the phone with the wireless turned off or a wired phone instead of the wireless?

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 10 of 14 (1,470 Views)
Scholar

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain


aviewer wrote:

oobleck _ do you have wireless turned on & a wireless phone?? Can you try the phone with the wireless turned off or a wired phone instead of the wireless?


Usually it happens with a wired phone, since that's what I use most of the time, but it also happens with wireless phones (DECT 6.0).  The wifi on the gateway is turned on at the lowest power setting.

 

I  tried a couple of calls on a wired phone connected to the demarc and didn't get a retrain, but most times when I use the phone there isn't a retrain, so that doesn't mean much.

 

Once thing I've noticed is that when it retrains while I'm on the phone I hear a whining sound, sort of like a modem trying to connect.  It's hard to hear unless the line is quiet.  Don't know if that's significant at all.

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oobleck

Message 11 of 14 (1,451 Views)
Scholar
Solution
Accepted by topic author oobleck
‎09-30-2015 1:39 AM

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain

They finally fixed it, and it only took two months and 10 tech visits, along with some help from Alex's group.  They eventually decided to split the POTS and U-verse onto separate pairs -- fortunately there was an extra pair available.  After the split the U-verse service still showed huge numbers of errors, but picking up the phone didn't cause any problems.  The POTS line was now dead quiet, without the intermittent static I'd been having.  So I called the local manager and suggested they put U-verse on the new POTS pair.  They ended up recombining the services on the new pair. That seems to have fixed it -- no problems in over two weeks, except for a few uncorrected blocks due to lightning.

On the old line it had reached the point where it was continously, but unsuccessfully, trying to connect.  The only way to get it to connect was to power cycle the gateway; then it would work for a few hours before disonnecting again.  Changing the pair (which I had suggested weeks ago) made a world of difference.

 

Thanks to Alex's group for finally getting somebody to fix this.

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oobleck

Message 12 of 14 (1,378 Views)
ACE - Master

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain


oobleck wrote:

They finally fixed it, and it only took two months and 10 tech visits, along with some help from Alex's group.  They eventually decided to split the POTS and U-verse onto separate pairs -- fortunately there was an extra pair available.  After the split the U-verse service still showed huge numbers of errors, but picking up the phone didn't cause any problems.  The POTS line was now dead quiet, without the intermittent static I'd been having.  So I called the local manager and suggested they put U-verse on the new POTS pair.  They ended up recombining the services on the new pair. That seems to have fixed it -- no problems in over two weeks, except for a few uncorrected blocks due to lightning.

On the old line it had reached the point where it was continously, but unsuccessfully, trying to connect.  The only way to get it to connect was to power cycle the gateway; then it would work for a few hours before disonnecting again.  Changing the pair (which I had suggested weeks ago) made a world of difference.

 

Thanks to Alex's group for finally getting somebody to fix this.

--
oobleck


oobleck - that was one of the two things that they did for me in the Spring of 2010.  Really helped!  I have POTS and UV TV and Internet.  I never had retrains when a phone was picked up but the POTS line was very noisy and there were frequent  RG retrains or just lots of flashing red on the RG. 

 

The other thing that they did was replaced about a block of main run coax, about two blocks away but yours is all fiber, right?  The mainline phone line was very old (40+ years) and water was getting into it, that was why I was seeing retrains / flashing reds after 2 AM or so, when dew would form.

 

Congrats!

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 13 of 14 (1,365 Views)
Scholar

Re: PIcking up the phone causes a retrain


dhascall wrote:
oobleck - that was one of the two things that they did for me in the Spring of 2010.  Really helped!  I have POTS and UV TV and Internet.  I never had retrains when a phone was picked up but the POTS line was very noisy and there were frequent  RG retrains or just lots of flashing red on the RG. 

 

The other thing that they did was replaced about a block of main run coax, about two blocks away but yours is all fiber, right?  The mainline phone line was very old (40+ years) and water was getting into it, that was why I was seeing retrains / flashing reds after 2 AM or so, when dew would form.

 

Congrats!


My area is fiber to the VRAD, and decrepit copper the rest of the way -- hence the problems.  A few years ago there was an AT&T crew working nearby for several weeks in the dead of winter, so I stopped and asked them what they were doing.  They were in the process of replacing an underground 1200-pair cable that dated to the 1920s, with paper insulation that had gotten wet.  I had been wondering why my POTS was so noisy.  I don't think the above-ground lines are that old, but they're probably not in good shape.

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oobleck

 

Message 14 of 14 (1,346 Views)