New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

Mentor

New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

I've been using a Microcell for a few years already, most recently with a Netgear R7000 Nighthawk as the router, an Actiontec PK5000 DSL modem/router in bridge mode.  (Service was Centurylink, either ADSL or ADSL2 not sure).

Microcell -> Netgear R7000 -> Actiontec PK5000 in transparent bridge mode

 

 

This past week, Centurylink upgraded my internet speed and apparently put me on a VDSL (or VDSL2) circuit, and they sent me a new modem, a Zyxel C1000Z.  I need to use the new modem because my old modems are not compatible w/ VDSL.

 

I have not been able to get the Microcell to activate using the same exact configuration except for the modem:

Microcell ->  Netgear R7000 -> Zyxel C1000Z in transparent bridge mode.

 

I spent hours with this issue.  Everything else that I have works fine (other devices that set up DDNS or UPnP ports to the outside world, etc) , except for the Microcell.  I went and physically added port forwarding on the Microcell ports that I saw in Otto's guide and in the ATT instructions.  (123 UDP, 443 TCP, 500 UDP, 4500 UDP).

 

This works:    microcell -> Zyxel C1000Z in gateway/router mode, but that's not what I want.

 

I have temporarily established this setup, but again it's not what I was hoping for and since all of this used to work before with the older modem/DSL combo:

 

microcell -> Netgear R700 in AP mode -> Zyxel C1000Z as the gateway/router

(I didn't have to do any explicit port forwarding).

 

BTW, all of the scenarios listed above were connected as Modem LAN port to Router WAN port.

 

For reasons that I don't want to get into, I want to use the Netgear R7000 to do all my network processing, and just use the modem/gateway for DSL (i.e. bridged).

 

Does anyone have a similar configuration and did you get it to work?  Any other ideas?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

Message 1 of 30 (5,770 Views)
ACE - Master

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

Off the top of my head it sounds like it's the Netgear that is causing the problem. If you can activate in the alternate connection (MicroCell to Zyxel) then it's probably not the Zyxel. Can you activate in the alternate connection if the Zyxel is set to just bridge mode?

 

Mine is setup as MicroCell -> AppleExtreme Base Station -> Comtrend gateway (bridge mode only). I originally used a Zyxel but my ISP dumped them beause of reliability/connection issues. I have ADSL2+.

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 2 of 30 (5,746 Views)
ACE - Professor

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

[ Edited ]

Complex problem.  I'm not an expert on all of this but I did find some things that may be causing your problem.

 


Mcell>Netgear>Zyxel (transparent bridge mode)

 

According to CenturyLink, if you set the Zyxel to transparent bridge mode, it turns off the ability of the modem to authenticate with CenturyLink.  They do not recommend that you do this, but if you do, you need another router/device connected to the LAN side of the modem to authenticate using PPPoE.  While you stated that you aren't experiencing issues with your other network devices, perhaps the Mcell doesn't like this for some reason.

 

You state that the setup Mcell>Netgear (AP mode)>Zyxel works but you don't want to run your network in that configuration.

 

Have you tried Mcell>Netgear (router mode)>Zyxel (gateway/router mode) but with NAT Filtering opened in the Netgear settings?  You may be dealing with a double NAT otherwise and that's not good for the Mcell.

 

In your Netgear Router mManager, go to: WAN Setup.

Set NAT Filtering to Open instead of Secured.  Let your Zyxel do the NAT duties.

While you are there, check the Disable SIP ALG box.  SIP ALG doesn't play well with some VOIP apps like the Mcell.

 

 

 

 

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 3 of 30 (5,721 Views)
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Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

Thank you both for your replies, much appreciated.

 

 

@Otto:  the weird thing is that the Netgear worked fine w/ the older modem/gateway.  I did try the Alternate microcell configuration w/ the Zyxel in bridge mode, and the microcell plugged in directly to it.  It didn't work, I think the issue is that the "internet service" could not authenticate like that (using pppoe), and since you can't set up the microcell with credentials to login to the internet service, it could not reach out to the ATT servers to create the vpn connection.  Just a guess though.

 

@Avedis53:   Interesting thoughts.  Here's what I had already tried which is a variation of your config.  I did change the NAT settings on the Netgear exactly as you stated.  But what I didn't do (or at least I don't think I did) was put the Zyxel back in gateway/router mode.   Still couldn't get the microcell to activate.

On the PPPoE thing, I did set the Netgear to login to centurylink's dsl, and that has always worked.

 

I want to try the configuration you suggest, which is having both "in router mode".  I'm not that clear on how to deal w/ double NAT.  But if I do as you suggest on the Netgear, what else do I need to adjust if anything?   For example, at that point I would have two DHCP servers running, which is not good.  My strong preference is to do all networking through the Netgear, so I could disable the DHCP on the Zyxel and set up a static IP and static DNS on the netgear.  But I'm not 100% clear on how to ensure that the Netgear and everything connected to it routes things properly through the Zyxel.

 

It's very strange, because this used to work w/ the older modem/router without having to do any acrobatics.  I literally had the older modem/router in bridge mode, and the microcell connected just fine through the Netgear.  When I got the new modem, connected it alone to my laptop and switched it to bridge.  Then, I swapped the old modem/router out, put the new one they sent me in, and just could not get that configuration to work w/ the microcell.

Message 4 of 30 (5,711 Views)
ACE - Master

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

Thanks Avedis. SIP ALG could certainly be an issue as we have seen before and definitely a double NAT if that's what's happening. My guess is that it's something that CenturyLink, who does not have a favorable six-month rating on DSL Reports (Broadband Reports), has done on their end to accomodate your upgraded service. You mentioned PPoE. I know when the MicroCell first came out that PPoE customers had a difficult time connecting. But you said it worked before so I'm assuming that was with PPoE as well. Can you get a static IP address from CenturyLink? I'd try Avedis's suggestions and see what happens.

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 5 of 30 (5,702 Views)
ACE - Professor

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

You can't have two DHCP servers on the same subnet unless they each have their own unique IP address range.

 

I don't think it matters whether your Netgear or Zyxel is the DHCP server, just make sure only one of them has DHCP server privileges.

 

Put the Zyxel in router mode w/DHCP disabled.

Put the Netgear in router mode w/NAT open, DHCP enabled and SIP ALG disabled.

 

Report back with results.

 

 

 

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 6 of 30 (5,686 Views)
ACE - Master

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

Excellent advice. Thanks.

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 7 of 30 (5,681 Views)
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Mentor

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

Thanks, I will try that but it will take me a couple of days to find time when I can do it and not disrupt my household use of all of this.

 

Since the Netgear will be the DHCP, how will it know to route things to the Zyxel?  I'm assuming I'm going to have to set up a static LAN IP on the Zyxel that's in the same subnet as the Netgear' DHCP server, but then, what's the actual gateway ip?   And do I still leave them connected from Zyxel LAN port to Netgear WAN port, or do they have to be LAN to LAN?

 

 

Message 8 of 30 (5,657 Views)
ACE - Professor

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

[ Edited ]

I am rapidly reaching my knowledge limit regarding home network hardware but after some more thought, here is something you might try instead.

 

In order to maintain maximum flexibility in your home network, I'm thinking of a different approach after reading your post.

 

Let's try to avoid setting static IP addresses and allow devices to connect to either the Netgear or the Zyxel.

 

Here's what I would try.  Remember, if it doesn't work you can always try another approach.

 

1. Enable DHCP on both the Zyxel and the Netgear.  This will allow devices to connect to either unit and avoid setting static IP addresses.

 

2.  If both devices have DHCP turned on, and they are using the same address family, then there will be conflicts even if you tell them to use different address ranges for the last octet (the last number in an IP address). To avoid this, either implement subnetting, with correct subnet masks, or assign different address families to the two routers.

 

Let's avoid messing with subnet masks and instead assign different IP addresses to the routers and give each router their own set of IP addresses.

 

3.  You will also need to make sure that Routing Information Protocol (RIP) is turned on for both the Netgear and the Zyxel in both directions.  Also set your RIP Version to RIP 1 for both routers.  This allows your two routers to communicate and exchange routing tables and bascially learn what the network currently looks like. 

 

4.  I don't know if you need to login everytime you connect to the internet or if you have a PPPOE account with your ISP.  I don't because I have cable internet and am connected all the time.  If you do have to login, then you need to make sure that only the Zyxel is set up to do so and that the Netgear's ability to log in is disabled.

 

I am most familiar with the Netgear Router Manager so I will refer to that.  I'm assuming the Zyxel has similiar capabilities and layout.

 

Go to the Netgear Router Manager and select the LAN Setup.

 

Under the LAN TCP/IP Setup section:

Set the IP address to:  10.0.0.1

Set the RIP Direction to:  Both  (The Zyxel does support RIP 1 and RIP 2 and may be automatic)

Set the RIP Version to:  RIP_1  (The Zyxel does support RIP 1 and RIP 2 and may be automatic)

 

The next section under that should have a checkbox labelled:  Use Router as DHCP Server

Check that checkbox.

Set the Starting IP Address to:  10.0.0.2 

Set the Ending IP Address to:  10.0.0.50 

 

Apply those changes.

 

Moving to your Zyxel router manager, you will want to go to the same LAN Setup page (I'm assuming it is set up in a similiar manner).

 

Set the IP address for the router to be 192.168.1.1  (probably already is by default)

Set the RIP Direction to:  Both

Set the RIP Version to:  RIP_1

 

Check the checkbox to use the router as a DHCP server.

 

Set the starting IP address to 192.168.1.2  (probably already is by default)

Set the ending IP address to 192.168.1.254  (probably already is by default)

 

Apply those changes.

 


Test your network to see if everything is capable of accessing the internet before connecting the Mcell.  Hopefully it all works.  I believe your connection should be LAN to LAN between the two routers. 

 

If everything is OK, then try connecting your Mcell to the Netgear with an Ethernet cable and see if you can activate the Mcell.

 

If this doesn't work, set your routers back to their original settings and we'll try something else.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 9 of 30 (5,650 Views)
ACE - Master

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

If I understand what you're trying to do, and the Zyxel is functioning in bridge mode only then all the Netgear needs is the IP address of the Zyxel which should have been supplied to you by CenturyLink. Everything else is behind the Netgear to which the MicroCell is directly connected to. We will help you as best as we can but router and gateway configurations are up to you, your ISP, and the hardware mfrs. Everyone's setup is different so it can get complicated and difficult for us to walk you thru setting up your network especially if we ourselves haven't use that equipment before.

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 10 of 30 (5,648 Views)
ACE - Professor

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

@ Otto....hope I didn't overstep my bounds.

 

@ partymonkey - Don't forget to disable NAT (set to: Open) on the Netgear and keep NAT enabled on the Zyxel.  Disable SIP ALG on both routers if you can (I know you can on the Netgear).

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 11 of 30 (5,641 Views)
ACE - Master

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

@Avedis - not at all. We're here to help as best as we can but once we step into the setting up of a home network area, it can get problematic if it doesn't work, because we will become network support for the individual which is not our purpose here.

 

@partymonkey- I hope you understand what I'm saying here. We will help you as best as we can but the nuts and bolts of configuring your network to meet the requirments of the MicroCell are up to you.

 

 

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 12 of 30 (5,634 Views)
ACE - Professor

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

@ Otto  - I hear what you're saying.  I am not suggesting anything that isn't reversible at any rate.

 

@ partymonkey - Caveat emptor (Let the buyer beware).  I am not an expert at home networks.  Your Mcell isn't the problem as you have shown that it does work.  Hopefully my suggestion works for you.  If it doesn't, then you will have to contact your ISP to see if they can offer another solution.

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 13 of 30 (5,629 Views)
Mentor

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

To both of you:  first of all, thank you very much for your kind ideas and support so far.  Truly appreciated.

 

@avedis:   thank you so much for the outline of the steps.  That's the kind of stuff I was looking for.  I am a fairly deep techie, but not when it comes to home networking, there I have a middle level of understanding, but I never spent the time to understand routing and protocols.  So you gave me just the necessary level of info and ideas for me to continue down my quest.

 

@otto:  I truly appreciate the support everyone gives, and I fully understand that this is my problem to solve, and any advice provided is strictly "your mileage may vary and you may run off a cliff".  However, the reason I came to this forum (and the netgear one), is because I have more faith in getting closer to a resolution than I do through standard tech support channels.  I have had past issues w/ the microcell, w/ DSL, w/ computer equipment, and very rarely any of the official technical support channels have actually resolved them properly.  The first thing they want to do is replace my non-defective device for another non-defective device.  Everyone covers their behind, and they draw the line right around their equipment.  The reality of my world is I have 3 different vendors (and 4 if you count the modem vendor which doesn't even give you support), and each will point at each other.

 

Anyway, once I get an opportunity to try these things out, I will report back.

 

Sharing what didn't work is just as useful as sharing what worked, and given that you have dedicated the time to help me, it's the minimum I could do to share back what I learn.

 

 

Message 14 of 30 (5,614 Views)
ACE - Master

Re: New problem - not Activating w/ Centurylink VDSL, Zyxel C1000Z, and Netgear R7000 Nighthawk

Yes, please do report back once it's all working correctly. What you learn and do may help others (us as well) and it may be something to add to the Tech Guide.

___________________________________________________________

MicroCell Technical Guide by Otto Pylot


I am not an AT&T employee. For additional help, please send a PM to ATTCustomerCare

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.
Message 15 of 30 (5,606 Views)
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