ridgekarma's profile
ridgekarma
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10th stratosphere!

Teacher

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37 Messages

Sat, Jul 28, 2018 10:32 PM

One customers request

As a very longtime ATT cell, internet and sometime TV service customer, I have seen the ATT plans , products and offers change routinely through the years....from the GREATNESS of the '$99 refurbished' phone offer, which was the chance to buy any number of cellphone makers phone that was typically 1 version behind the latest and greatest version for only $99 , refurbished and it included all of the higher end makers (Apple, Samsung,etc) . And you could peruse ATT's online store to shop through a big variety of options. Why they did away with this great thing is beyond me and it is a night and day difference between what we have now, which is to pay an eternal monthly payment that gets lumped into the rest of your monthly cellphone bill on a very high dollar brand new one. So you in effect have no choice but to have this eternal payment....and needless to say, when you want to change to a different, newer phone, the payments will continue the never ending cycle. That refurbished phone option was STUPENDOUS and should be brought back ASAP! …..

 

Next, ATT is calling their plan 'unlimited', but no matter what tier you are at , the 6 gig or 15 gig or whatever, it's nothing at all like a true unlimited data plan....ATT will immediately 'cap' your speed, once you hit the threshold of the plan that you paid for (which in itself, negates the entire idea of true 'unlimited' data). So if you hit your 6 or 15 gig limit, your speed is reduced to a pitiful 128kbps. That is, frankly, an embarrassment in this day and age , where people are constantly using their mobile devices for streaming HD video/audio and other high data uses. 128kbps is all but worthless, and if you have been using your phone as a hotspot, the performance is so bad, it's basically unuseable for anything past a white background webpage with black text and nothing else LOL. So, what we as customers want , is TRUE unlimited data, NO restrictions, NO clipping your bandwidth back to an emabarrassing 128kbps, ever! ATT is a huge, huge monolith of a company, who have enormous revenue streams in addition to the individual customer that many people may not be aware of, namely enterprise business support, and the  main player in the backbone support of all the Central Offices and associated lines and equipment that support the internet itself. They CAN do this for us!

ridgekarma

Teacher

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37 Messages

3 y ago

 

"It's not like it's a "big secret", that you get de-prioritized

It's still "Unlimited", really, even if it's de-prioritized, I don't any other way of looking at it.  

It's not "Unlimited, at max-speed, for ALL your data"

 

 

Exactly. Hence, my thread title and it's contents. ; )

 

 

"I don't disagree that this would be a cool plan, but like @lizdance40 said, it'd be the "going out of business sale" plan, more or less."

 

Heck no. You guys are looking at ATT like they are this single minded , tiny , consumer mom and pop cellular service provider and nothing else. lol....They are a massive, massive company , of which, consumer internet/cellphone  is but one on a long list of revenue streams. If there were ever any company that you would ask 'does anyone own the internet'? Domestically, far and away the closest answer would be them. Every single solitary bit across the US, whether it originated as 4g, wifi or hard wired, at one point runs through one of the Central Offices that they own and operate  and they have in virtually every state, containing insanely fast and powerful switches and routers. They own all that equipment. In fact, the actual circuits , fiber and otherwise, to get to from all local providers , they lease out. And we're talking Enterprise sized businesses to mom and pop shops to other local last mile ISP's and providers.  Not to mention constantly on the lookout to buy up after-the-fact IT support for any number of Enterprise sized companies on down. They are a monolithic company. The revenue they generate would make your eyes water, with or without catering to the end consumer as a cellular service provider. 

 

 

"Someday soon, particularly with 5G standards incoming (even though it's not fully ratified, everyone is moving towards a mostly-agreed-upon-standard(s)), there are going to have to be some obvious changes, given that you could use an entire plan, in a few minutes.

Personally, I think it'll eventually move to more of a "pure ISP" model, at least for your data (which is really almost everything these days, in most cases), say maybe you get xxxGB, and if you exceed it for x months, you get a penalty, or some similar qualification.  

What this is moving towards, in reality, I'm sure is being discussed, but being held VERY close, for now..."

 

5g is the the tech that proves what I want is doable. Even now at 4G lte speed,  when I hotspot my phone for my desktop pc, I get blazing fast speed around 54Mpbs (before the throttle obviously), no problem for HD streaming or anything else, with 0 slowdowns. This is doable. ..

 

 

Mentor

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71 Messages

3 y ago

5G is the tech that proves it is not doable, yet. Capacity is still expanding which means current capacity is limited. At some point the market supply will be saturated and then prices will fall. The entire industry is a packaging game; lowering prices where supply is greater and increasing prices where demand is greater. 

ACE - Sage

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92.2K Messages

3 y ago

@MarkLeavenworth

😉🍻

@ridgekarma   Your pronouncements I’d ATT’s financial health are not supported by their actual financial reports.  The only carrier showing real financial growth and health is T-mobile.  

Mentor

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71 Messages

3 y ago

I haven't said anything about ATTs financial health. I've only said that if there is not a demand for more supply, then lowering the price is the key to growth. (I might add that in the case of competitive growth industries that usually means making the product easier to understand and more convenient to use. That is because the customers of competetive growth industries face frequent changes and unpredictable confusion so that as the growth phase comes to a close, then the easiest way to reduce the price is to eliminate any inconvenience, unpredictability and confusion.)

GLIMMERMAN76

ACE - Expert

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22.7K Messages

3 y ago


@lizdance40 wrote:

@MarkLeavenworth

😉🍻

@ridgekarma   Your pronouncements I’d ATT’s financial health are not supported by their actual financial reports.  The only carrier showing real financial growth and health is T-mobile.  


@lizdance40

 

actually Tmobile is not in that great of shape...  Yes they can show subscriber growth but the average revenue per sub is lower...  Then there is market share  https://www.statista.com/statistics/199359/market-share-of-wireless-carriers-in-the-us-by-subscriptions/.....

 

ATT also has TW and Directv which are BIG money makers...

GLIMMERMAN76

ACE - Expert

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22.7K Messages

3 y ago


@ridgekarma wrote:

 

"It's not like it's a "big secret", that you get de-prioritized

It's still "Unlimited", really, even if it's de-prioritized, I don't any other way of looking at it.  

It's not "Unlimited, at max-speed, for ALL your data"

 

 

Exactly. Hence, my thread title and it's contents. ; )

 

 

"I don't disagree that this would be a cool plan, but like @lizdance40 said, it'd be the "going out of business sale" plan, more or less."

 

Heck no. You guys are looking at ATT like they are this single minded , tiny , consumer mom and pop cellular service provider and nothing else. lol....They are a massive, massive company , of which, consumer internet/cellphone  is but one on a long list of revenue streams. If there were ever any company that you would ask 'does anyone own the internet'? Domestically, far and away the closest answer would be them. Every single solitary bit across the US, whether it originated as 4g, wifi or hard wired, at one point runs through one of the Central Offices that they own and operate  and they have in virtually every state, containing insanely fast and powerful switches and routers. They own all that equipment. In fact, the actual circuits , fiber and otherwise, to get to from all local providers , they lease out. And we're talking Enterprise sized businesses to mom and pop shops to other local last mile ISP's and providers.  Not to mention constantly on the lookout to buy up after-the-fact IT support for any number of Enterprise sized companies on down. They are a monolithic company. The revenue they generate would make your eyes water, with or without catering to the end consumer as a cellular service provider. 

 

 

"Someday soon, particularly with 5G standards incoming (even though it's not fully ratified, everyone is moving towards a mostly-agreed-upon-standard(s)), there are going to have to be some obvious changes, given that you could use an entire plan, in a few minutes.

Personally, I think it'll eventually move to more of a "pure ISP" model, at least for your data (which is really almost everything these days, in most cases), say maybe you get xxxGB, and if you exceed it for x months, you get a penalty, or some similar qualification.  

What this is moving towards, in reality, I'm sure is being discussed, but being held VERY close, for now..."

 

5g is the the tech that proves what I want is doable. Even now at 4G lte speed,  when I hotspot my phone for my desktop pc, I get blazing fast speed around 54Mpbs (before the throttle obviously), no problem for HD streaming or anything else, with 0 slowdowns. This is doable. ..

 

 


@ridgekarma

 

Do we live in a world where data transit if free?  Not the last time I checked....Then you have peering costs...  Nothing is free..  And your forgetting Verizon, Century link, and Frontier they own lots of areas...  But then your talking about local central offices well welcome to the digital age those don't do squat anymore..  A PBX can be anywhere in the world now thanks to the internet...  ATT does own a backhaul company but they are one of MANY....

 

Att is not even considered a Tier 1 backbone provider anymore....  Here are the 7 that are CenturyLinkTelia CarrierNTTCogentLevel 3GTT, and Tata Communicationshttp://icaruswept.com/2016/06/28/who-owns-the-internet/

 

Here is a nice read if you want to

 

 http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php

 

http://www2.telegeography.com/hubfs/2017/presentations/telegeography-ptc17-pricing.pdf

 

 

ridgekarma

Teacher

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37 Messages

3 y ago

@GLIMMERMAN76

"Do we live in a world where data transit if free?  Not the last time I checked....Then you have peering costs...  Nothing is free..  And your forgetting Verizon, Century link, and Frontier they own lots of areas...  But then your talking about local central offices well welcome to the digital age those don't do squat anymore..  A PBX can be anywhere in the world now thanks to the internet...  ATT does own a backhaul company but they are one of MANY....

 

Att is not even considered a Tier 1 backbone provider anymore....  Here are the 7 that are CenturyLinkTelia CarrierNTTCogentLevel 3GTT, and Tata Communicationshttp://icaruswept.com/2016/06/28/who-owns-the-internet/ "

 

 

Who said anything about free? Not me. I'm proposing a very fair 'flat fee' for everybody .......you.... me and every non-ATT employee chiming in this thread so vigorously against something for their benefit lol...$75 bux a month, no caps, no throttling, no restrictions, do-with-it-as-you-please-data-plan. Boom. And the prospects are even more tantalyzing once 5 g gets up to full speed everywhere. Imagine ditching your internet service and having one , sole bill that covers both your cell and internet needs.  I for one would like that very much as an option. Would it be right for everyone? Maybe, maybe not... but having that as an option is the essence of the original post.

 

As for ATT being Tier 1 being backbone support, they are still considered that, depending on which source you want to believe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network) but whether they are considered so or not, there's no disputing  the point I was making....they have an enormous amount infrastructure in place inside the USA...CO's, laid fiber, Tier 2 facilities and Enterprise sized business support on top of cellular service that are all tremendous revenue generators. Bottom line, they got the dough! ....:)

ACE - Sage

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92.2K Messages

3 y ago

@ridgekarma

You wrote “Who said anything about free? Not me. I'm proposing a very fair 'flat fee' for everybody .......you.... me and every non-ATT employee chiming in this thread so vigorously against something for their benefit lol...$75 bux a month, no caps, no throttling, no restrictions, do-with-it-as-you-please-data-plan. Boom.”

That would be for every cellular phone or tablet?  

NO FREAKING WAY.  

I have 5 devices on my ATT account and my total bill now is $189 a month.  Your brilliant idea would raise my bill to $375.  What you propose is a reversal to the pre 2014 plans that were inclusive and expensive.  The point was to make service more affordable, which it has done.  

Since I don’t pay almost $200 for home internet, It would not be a benefit to me.  

 

ACE - Sage

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92.2K Messages

3 y ago

@ridgekarma

BTW, in the past there were unencumbered unlimited offers

Verizons original smartphone unlimited with hotspot is $80 per line ($50 for data, $30 to tether). plus $69 for the plan, text is $20.  No phone upgrade options, you had to buy at full price, no discounts.

do the math, $189 for a single line, no phone subsidy, and the threat of cancelation if you exceed 200 gigs a month. 

T-mobile had a more reasonable price, but the plan lasted about a year.  T-mobile could not allow it to continue because the amounts of data were too costly.   

MicCheck

ACE - Expert

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10.7K Messages

3 y ago


@ridgekarma wrote:
"So you want AT&T to sell you device for about $400 less than the current market price, and then offer a plan you can use for all your high-speed internet needs....for a lower price than the current unlimited plan?"

Ding , ding, he gets it! ….I'm surmising by your surprised response that you don't remember a time when ATT did exactly that...for years, I was able to shop on ATT's website , and peruse a great number of phone makers, for the low low price of $99 for some of them. Top tier stuff too...They had been refurbished and looked and worked as if new. It was a great, great thing. At one time or another,  I had an iteration of the iPhone, then a very cool HTC model (the very first with stereo front facing speakers I think), then a Samsung , before they dropped the program.

 

They did no such thing. First, the plans back then were much more expensive. It was about $50 for 450 minutes (but unlimited nights and weekends!), then $20 for unlimited texts...we're at $70 and haven't even talked about data yet!

 

The also required a 2-year contract, so you had to stay with AT&T for 2 years or pay an ETF of up to $325. 

 

That $99 was but a small portion of the true cost of that plan. 

 

As for the plan, it comes back to a point I made earlier and the analogy that in this day and age of HD streaming content and high usage, that the 'baby steps' years of charging for digital consumption byte for byte or bit for bit so to speak dinging via throttling or charges should be pretty much over , imo. Plenty of people like me I'm sure, have recognized the possibility of a single bill that allowed them cellphone AND home and cellphone internet service via hotspotting. It's there, it's doable...what right minded consumer would NOT want this? : )

 

Every right-minded customer would want everything they can get for free. That doesn't mean such a scenario is realistic. AT&T has to make money, or no customer will get anything from it. 


 

ridgekarma

Teacher

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37 Messages

3 y ago

@lizdance apparently the concept of 'flat fee' eludes you lol. Multiple PHONE and only multiple phone households would possibly  need another solution. But others with a single phone yet multiple other devices needing internet access, what a boon it would be! Anyway, I absolutely love my idea and ATTs powers that be take it into consideration along with bringing back the $99 refurb option.

 

Ciao.

GLIMMERMAN76

ACE - Expert

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22.7K Messages

3 y ago

@ridgekarma

 

Quit being cheap and pay for your phone like the rest of the world.

 

ridgekarma

Teacher

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37 Messages

3 y ago

@GLIMMERMAN76.   Sir Alec Guiness would be proud. 😉

ACE - Sage

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92.2K Messages

3 y ago

@ridgekarma

Hmmmm.. sounds like you didn’t actually think of anyone but yourself.  🤨

   But it’s not all about you.  It’s families and multi line accounts.  People who don’t use data that much.  It’s about a single person who can’t afford $75 or doesn’t want to pay that much.   Or someone who doesn’t want ATT crappy refurb phone.  And about ATT making the nut each month, and the ability to provide service to all subscribers, which at this time, cheap unlimited data cannot do.

    No, a flat fee concept is not lost...  it would mean every phone line would cost the same and have the same amount of usage ability (alleged).  

    It’s not a flat fee if the amount changes for different circumstances 

 

 

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