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ridgekarma
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Teacher

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37 Messages

Sat, Jul 28, 2018 10:32 PM

One customers request

As a very longtime ATT cell, internet and sometime TV service customer, I have seen the ATT plans , products and offers change routinely through the years....from the GREATNESS of the '$99 refurbished' phone offer, which was the chance to buy any number of cellphone makers phone that was typically 1 version behind the latest and greatest version for only $99 , refurbished and it included all of the higher end makers (Apple, Samsung,etc) . And you could peruse ATT's online store to shop through a big variety of options. Why they did away with this great thing is beyond me and it is a night and day difference between what we have now, which is to pay an eternal monthly payment that gets lumped into the rest of your monthly cellphone bill on a very high dollar brand new one. So you in effect have no choice but to have this eternal payment....and needless to say, when you want to change to a different, newer phone, the payments will continue the never ending cycle. That refurbished phone option was STUPENDOUS and should be brought back ASAP! …..

 

Next, ATT is calling their plan 'unlimited', but no matter what tier you are at , the 6 gig or 15 gig or whatever, it's nothing at all like a true unlimited data plan....ATT will immediately 'cap' your speed, once you hit the threshold of the plan that you paid for (which in itself, negates the entire idea of true 'unlimited' data). So if you hit your 6 or 15 gig limit, your speed is reduced to a pitiful 128kbps. That is, frankly, an embarrassment in this day and age , where people are constantly using their mobile devices for streaming HD video/audio and other high data uses. 128kbps is all but worthless, and if you have been using your phone as a hotspot, the performance is so bad, it's basically unuseable for anything past a white background webpage with black text and nothing else LOL. So, what we as customers want , is TRUE unlimited data, NO restrictions, NO clipping your bandwidth back to an emabarrassing 128kbps, ever! ATT is a huge, huge monolith of a company, who have enormous revenue streams in addition to the individual customer that many people may not be aware of, namely enterprise business support, and the  main player in the backbone support of all the Central Offices and associated lines and equipment that support the internet itself. They CAN do this for us!

ACE - Sage

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90.4K Messages

3 y ago


@ridgekarma wrote:

As a very longtime ATT cell, internet and sometime TV service customer, I have seen the ATT plans , products and offers change routinely through the years....from the GREATNESS of the '$99 refurbished' phone offer, which was the chance to buy any number of cellphone makers phone that was typically 1 version behind the latest and greatest version for only $99 , refurbished and it included all of the higher end makers (Apple, Samsung,etc) . And you could peruse ATT's online store to shop through a big variety of options. Why they did away with this great thing is beyond me and it is a night and day difference between what we have now, which is to pay an eternal monthly payment that gets lumped into the rest of your monthly cellphone bill on a very high dollar brand new one. So you in effect have no choice but to have this eternal payment....even when you want to change to a different, newer phone, the payments will be never ending. That refurbished phone option was STUPENDOUS and should be brought back ASAP! …..

    That was fiction.  You were paying for the phone with your 2 year service contract.  As phone prices increased, so did service cost.   When it could no longer easily be bundled, T mobile cut the ties between service and equipment.   Other carriers followed suit.  

 

Next, ATT is calling their plan 'unlimited', but no matter what tier you are at , the 6 gig or 15 gig or whatever, it's nothing at all like a true unlimited data plan....ATT will immediately 'cap' your speed, once you hit the threshold of the plan that you paid for (which in itself, negates the entire idea of true 'unlimited' data). So if you hit your 6 or 15 gig limit, your speed is reduced to a pitiful 128kbps.

    No, no, no.... These capped plans were NEVER advertised as unlimited.  The were called 6 gig or 15 gig.   ATT never advertised these as unlimited and still does not.

 

That is, frankly, an embarrassment in this day and age , where people are constantly using their mobile devices for streaming HD video/audio and other high data uses. 128kbps is all but worthless, and if have been using your phone as a hotspot, the performance is so bad, it's basically unuseable for anything past a black webpage with black text and nothing else LOL. So, what we as customers want , is TRUE unlimited data, NO restrictions, NO clipping your bandwidth back to an emabarrassing 128kbps, ever! ATT is a huge, huge monolith of a company, who have enormous revenue streams in addition to the individual customer that many people may not be aware of, namely enterprise business support, and the  main player in the backbone support of all the Central Offices and associated lines and equipment that support the internet itself. They CAN do this for us!


Unlimited data has been available for over 2 years.    You can choose one of the unlimited plans if you want.  They ARE advertised as such.

No carrier offers truly unlimited data.  Ever carrier either reprioritizes or throttles their unlimited plans.  They have to.  Data is not infinite.  

 

ridgekarma

Teacher

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37 Messages

3 y ago

Dead wrong on both answers @lizdance40....yes, the $99 was incumbent on having a data plan of some sort, but that's a given....they wouldn't sell you the refurb without a plan, that would be silly.  That in no way shape or form negated the fact you made ONE purchase for $99 for the phone and that was IT. I'm sure you can see the vast difference between a like new , 2nd generation phone and one time payment of $99 versus what we have now. And as for pricing increases, the original 8 gig iPhone was already a stout $600, so price increases haven't escalated that far, and further, they could've simply kept the refurb option, but added , say, $25-50 to the price...I'm sure many people, myself included would've been more than happy to continue on with this great, great option.

 

 

2nd, I have called ATT support, and the lady pointedly and several times told me I have what they consider an unlimited data plan, in fact I had to bump it up from 6 gig to 15 because I use my phone as a hotspot. I even made it a point to tell the lady 'this isn't true unlimited and unrestricted data'...my very argument because the usability of a 128kbps connection in this day and age is virtually nil given the high speed nature of what we typically use our phones. Lastly, ANY carrier COULD offer 'truly' unlimited data if they want. That is a myth that they 'have' to throttle your speed. Think about any given time across the US....a huge amount of customers may be using their 6 or 15 gigs of data before being 'throttled' back to the stone age @ 128kbps , at any given time....and this is continuously, day to day, every day. So for every individual customers burden/load  to ATTs network , when someone gets throttled back to the current 128kpbs, another one is just now coming off that restriction. The net effect is a daily , constant , massive and continuous amount of data. So if the issue were ever capacity, we know that is not the issue.  That alone tells you their is no such restriction and needles to say, ATT is constantly upgrading their backbone equipment and cellular equipment to handle increased traffic loads (5g anyone? lol) My guess , is the cap it to squeeze more money out of the customer.

David606

Employee

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3.5K Messages

3 y ago

How is the cap squeezing more money out of the customer when there are zero options to increase that on a line. You can't add more hotspot data to a line. Once it hits the limit, that's it. You can't add more by paying more.

ACE - Sage

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90.4K Messages

3 y ago

@ridgekarma

Nope.  You were always paying more than $99 for the phone....

Lets look at the change in 2014 and you tell me if the logic holds.  

   In 2013 the current plan was Mobile Share family plan and you could by a phone(not the newest phone) for $99 with a 2 year service contract, or a brand new iPhone for $199.  The 2year contract came with a $325 ETF if you canceled service.   Line fees on the plan were $40 each.  At the end of 2013 ATT introduced a new plan Mobile Share Value plan and the option to buy phones 2 ways, with installments or 2 year contract.  The perk if you used installments was a discount on your line for being out of contract.  My discount is $25, so $40 - $25 = $15 per phone line.  People who used contracts paid the full $40.

so here is how the math worked out on a $650 base model iPhone at the time.

Next installments: $650 plus sales tax, upgrade fees were waived in 2014 and 2015 

 

Contract:  $199 up front, and an extra $25 per month for 24 months, total $799 plus they charged the upgrade fee.  Guess how much you paid if you got a “free” last year’s model phone which retailed for $500...  You still paid $600 under contract, plus upgrade fee.   

 

At the time ATT stopped contracts, it cost as much as $399 up front for the higher priced phones.  

    T Mobile has always been forward thinking.  They knew cost of phones was going to go much higher and that the cost could no longer be included with service.  ATT and Verizon were wise to follow.  I’ve been with ATT 4.5 years for this plan and pay for service only.  I cut my bill in half from what I used to pay Verizon for 5 lines and have twice the data.  

 

Again, they call it a 15 gig plan, not unlimited.   It was NEVER advertised by ATT as unlimited.   Don’t care what spin the sales people put on it, it’s a 15 gig plan period.

   Yes, 5G May mean a difference as some carriers may offer it as an alternate to wired home internet.

 

 

ridgekarma

Teacher

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37 Messages

3 y ago

@David606   ...You can. By apparently changing your 'unlimited' data plan from 6 gigs before throttling to 15 gigs before throttling both on the phone and using it as a hotspot........alas, after speaking with ATT support on the phone and upping it to 15 gig and  since I use the hotspot for internet on my desktop pc and have some favorite youtube channels that frequently go live (which equals very fast data consumption) , it took all of about 4 days to max out again....That's why I say ATT just needs to drop ANY restriction caps/throttling...As I stated, if the issue for why they do that is overconsumption, any given second of any given day is already being utilized by customers, so nothing really changes.  

ridgekarma

Teacher

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37 Messages

3 y ago

@lizdance40,  the refurbished phone option at $99 in no way shape or form influenced my 2 year contract plan. It just didn't...I was paying the same for the data/phone service/fees/taxes/extra charges (the plan itself)  with the  $99 refurbed phone as I am now , MONTH TO MONTH (the plan is actually a bit more now than it was, ...the refurb option was well back at least 6 or more years ago, fyi). ...The only major difference obviously, is not having an additional burden of a $30+ dollar every-single-month-from-here-on-out-that-you-want-to-stay-with-ATT charge (since most folks can't afford the $700 a pop or more for a top shelf cellphone, paid outright) , that goes on infinitely mind you, assuming you will want/need a new phone after so many years...Again, the ONLY difference , since the month to month plan charges are virtually identical, is you no longer have that added burden of paying for a phone , with the $99 refurb option, which I paid in one shot, and when my 2 year contract was up, simply paid another $99 for a top shelf phone if I was ready, or just stayed on with the one I had indefinitely, knowing that at any given time, I could make a marked upgrade for $99 bux,  that was for all intents and purposes, newlike. 

 

 

Again, you are wrong. My plan is advertised and sold as unlimited data.....and they can get away with that, because technically it is unlimited, you can use as much as your heart desires, BUT, with the infamous throttled speed , once you hit 6 or 15 gig , depending on plan. Again, they CAN and SHOULD do away with this and allow us ALL completely TRUE and unrestricted data, if they so chose.

ACE - Sage

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90.4K Messages

3 y ago

Re: capped data plan

show me where it says “unlimited data” any where on this page... except for the redirect to the other actually unlimited plan...it does NOT.

https://www.att.com/plans/wireless/mobile-share-flex.html

 And if you did choose unlimited, it specifically says hotspot use is capped at 15 gigs, then slows to 2G speed which is unusable. 

FYI your $99 phone still had a contract and $325 ETF on it.  If you think ATT wasn’t making $325 off you over 2 years, you have been kidding yourself.   

 

 

Gary L

ACE - Expert

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15.8K Messages

3 y ago


@ridgekarma wrote:

from the GREATNESS of the '$99 refurbished' phone offer, which was the chance to buy any number of cellphone makers phone that was typically 1 version behind the latest and greatest version for only $99 , refurbished and it included all of the higher end makers (Apple, Samsung,etc) .

That's when they had contracts for $199, so the year older version was $100 less. They do $100 less for lasts year's phone now (without contracts).

 

It SEEMS like you're paying a lot more for your phone that way, but back in the days of contracts, it was $40+ for the calling plan, $20 for unlimited texting and $30 for 3GB data making it $90+ for 3GB on a contract. They replaced those plans with cheaper plans, for example, a Mobile Share Value 3GB plan was $40 and $20 for a line making it $60 for 3GB but NO contract.

  • You saved $30 a month in this example, a $650 phone is $27.09 a month, so you're ahead $3 with current plans.
  • Your $100 off phones, would be $550 now, that's $23 a month, with $7 a month savings.

 

 

Next, ATT is calling their plan 'unlimited', but no matter what tier you are at , the 6 gig or 15 gig or whatever, it's nothing at all like a true unlimited data plan....ATT will immediately 'cap' your speed, once you hit the threshold of the plan that you paid for (which in itself, negates the entire idea of true 'unlimited' data).

PLEASE show me where AT&T is calling a 6GB plan UNLIMITED.

Take a photo of an advertisement, link to a page or include a screenshot.

 

So if you hit your 6 or 15 gig limit, your speed is reduced to a pitiful 128kbps. That is, frankly, an embarrassment in this day and age , where people are constantly using their mobile devices for streaming HD video/audio and other high data uses. 128kbps is all but worthless, and if you have been using your phone as a hotspot, the performance is so bad, it's basically unuseable for anything past a white background webpage with black text and nothing else LOL.

Yes, the 128 is UNUSABLE, so if you need more than that, then get the 25GB plan or the 50GB plan.

 

So, what we as customers want , is TRUE unlimited data, NO restrictions, NO clipping your bandwidth back to an emabarrassing 128kbps, ever!

You can't have everything, if you want NO RESTRICTIONS, they'll likely charge you $200+ a month for this (non-existent) plan. 

 

Right now you can get Unlimited plans for $90, you get 22GB of high priority internet and after that IF (and only if) the tower is overloaded you get deprioritized (you get served last), there is no specific speed, it's based on how busy the tower is. These plans have a hotspot, but it's only 10-15GB, as it's for casual browsing, not for running your whole house (since we're talking about it, it drops to 128kbps after the limit, but I just tell people that's all they get since it's useless!).

 

In the Detroit area, I generally get between 8 and 25Mbps when I break 22GB. If I go a mile from my house, I get something like 20-60Mbps after the 22GB (I get 80-150Mbps at this spot before 22GB). At my house in particular, I get crappy speeds 6-20, but when I break 22GB it stays about the same.

 

 

 

ridgekarma

Teacher

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37 Messages

3 y ago

Let me make this clear for those who aren't getting it...I want ONE cellphone data plan. With unlimited data in the strictest , truest sense. No selecting a data amount. No selecting price point. No 'you have unlimited data, oh but we will cap it's speed once you hit X amount' usage restrictions. Allow us to use it in whatever way we want. Hotspot or otherwise. Who, in their right mind, would NOT want this? Think of it...you could potentially ditch your home internet plan entirely, and your cell plan becomes your internet plan. And to those who say 'you can't have everything', yes, you CAN. People that think that, only do so because they aren't bold enough to expect more than what a carrier may lead them to believe.  As I stated, with the onset of 5g especially, bigger, faster and more towers  and ATT infrastructure are ensuring capacity will continue to be met. It's happening as we speak. And bring back the awesome refurbished phone option to those who want to select it. You give me that $99 , one time refurbished phone with , say, a universal 'flat fee' TRUELY unlimited, unrestricted and unfettered data plan for , say, $75 a month, and people will be dancing in the streets, and probably triple or more ATT's customer base! 

 

The days of accounting for bits and bytes, in this day and age of  streaming HD video and other high capacity use and the vastly improved technology and it's greater proliferation has imo, led us to a point where it's now silly to charge/restrict/penalize on a 'bit useage' scale....Imagine the outrage if your TV provider did this....zapped your bill for 'overages' based on how much TV you watch and/or lowered your HD channels to SD!   The era of charges/restrictions/penalties  based on usage has passed. One plan, one fixed amount. 0 restrictions. Rejoice. : )

ACE - Sage

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90.4K Messages

3 y ago

Good luck finding one.  

 

 

ACE - Sage

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90.4K Messages

3 y ago

I gotta put you two together...

https://forums.att.com/t5/AT-T-PREPAID/Visual-Voicemail-Free/m-p/5600143#M72706

@MarkLeavenworth.  Perhaps you can explain to @ridgekarma how he does not need unlimited cell data?

 

Gary L

ACE - Expert

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15.8K Messages

3 y ago


@ridgekarma wrote:

Let me make this clear for those who aren't getting it...I want ONE cellphone data plan. With unlimited data in the strictest , truest sense. No selecting a data amount. No selecting price point. No 'you have unlimited data, oh but we will cap it's speed once you hit X amount' usage restrictions. Allow us to use it in whatever way we want. Hotspot or otherwise.

No, YOU are NOT getting it.  IT doesn't exist.

 

Who, in their right mind, would NOT want this? Think of it...you could potentially ditch your home internet plan entirely, and your cell plan becomes your internet plan.

say, $75 a month, and people will be dancing in the streets, and probably triple or more ATT's customer base! 

DUH! Of course, everyone would want it at that ridiculously low price.

 

Most home internet companies aren't even giving you what you want. They've got a cap at 1TB of data (or less).

 

P.S. PLEASE get me an electric car at $5,000, preferably a convertible that gets 500 miles to the charge. Who wouldn't want that?

Heck, make it 5,000 miles!

 

 

 

Gary L

ACE - Expert

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15.8K Messages

3 y ago


@lizdance40 wrote:

I gotta put you two together...

https://forums.att.com/t5/AT-T-PREPAID/Visual-Voicemail-Free/m-p/5600143#M72706

@MarkLeavenworth.  Perhaps you can explain to @ridgekarma how he does not need unlimited cell data? 


You're brilliant, but I think it's the same guy just screwing around with us! We've never had two such diametrically opposed characters on the forum at the same time before, have we?

 

 

MicCheck

ACE - Expert

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10.5K Messages

3 y ago

You give me that $99 , one time refurbished phone with , say, a universal 'flat fee' TRUELY unlimited, unrestricted and unfettered data plan for , say, $75 a month, and people will be dancing in the streets, and probably triple or more ATT's customer base”

 

So you want AT&T to sell you device for about $400 less than the current market price, and then offer a plan you can use for all your high-speed internet needs....for a lower price than the current unlimited plan?

ACE - Sage

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90.4K Messages

3 y ago


@Gary L wrote:

@lizdance40 wrote:

I gotta put you two together...

https://forums.att.com/t5/AT-T-PREPAID/Visual-Voicemail-Free/m-p/5600143#M72706

@MarkLeavenworth.  Perhaps you can explain to @ridgekarma how he does not need unlimited cell data? 


You're brilliant, but I think it's the same guy just screwing around with us! We've never had two such diametrically opposed characters on the forum at the same time before, have we?

 

 


I must admit that occurred. But I’m not seeing similar writing styles.  

   Perhaps Mark can explain the marketing strategy behind the deceptively cheap phone on a 2 year contract to ridge.  And ridge can in turn impart the beauty of not paying for home internet so he can get his VVM instantly, rather than stalking a Starbucks for Wifi.  

 

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