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Lex2364's profile

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Friday, June 7th, 2019 1:20 AM

send-only address clarification

My Email program is Thunderbird. I run it on Windows 7 Pro (64 bit) SP1. AT&T is my ISP. AT&T uses Yahoo Mail, with just a different name on the header. I use an IMAP Mail Server and an SMTP Outgoing Server.

 

Before I get into all the details, I also have Email addresses at providers other than AT&T. Because of some issues, I was instructed to set up send-only addresses for the other providers, which I have done. See https://help.yahoo.com/kb/sln26524.html     Note that in this Help document, Yahoo uses both send-only address and send-only account.

 

1. Which does this Help actually refer to: send-only address or send-only account? I have been told that they are two completely different things.

2. Assuming this Help refers to send-only addresses, could you expand on what this feature really does? It is not at all clear to me from reading the text, and this was the only Help document I could find which referred to send-only address.

 

 

Harry

 

 

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5 years ago

I use an IMAP Mail Server and an SMTP Outgoing Server.

The servers specified here?

 

I was instructed to set up send-only addresses for the other providers, which I have done. See https://help.yahoo.com/kb/sln26524.html 

Correct idea just the wrong (or out of date) instructions.  In the "new" att/yahoo webmail click the settings gear -> more settings -> mailboxes.  That's where you add Send-only email addresses.  As you add each one it will go through its verification step sending an email to the specified address asking you to click a link to do the verification.

 

Which does this Help actually refer to: send-only address or send-only account?

These are only email addresses that you can specify for the reply-to, i.e., what appears in the From field and who the recipient of the email thinks sent it.

 

Assuming this Help refers to send-only addresses, could you expand on what this feature really does?

I just did.  It allows you to specify valid email addresses in the From field of an email you compose (you can also choose which one to default to).  Similarly in email client apps.  For example, in the case of Thunderbird that is what you could specify in one of these addresses in the Default Identity for an account.  I've been doing this, like, forever.  But the address I use there still needs to be specified a previously verified email address in the webmail's Send-only email address.

 

Note, I am not sure this was always the case, i.e., the send-only addresses needing to be set and verified in the webmail.  But I believe yahoo started requiring verification in one of the crude attempts to discourage using the yahoo servers by spammers who like to spoof their From addresses.

 

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41 Messages

5 years ago

xyzzz:

 

The servers specified here?

For the outbound server, yes. For inbound, IF the account is an att.net account. If non-att, use different inbound settings.

 

In the "new" att/yahoo webmail click the settings gear -> more settings -> mailboxes.  That's where you add Send-only email addresses

I used the steps shown in the "Chosen Answer" here: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1260312 .It starts exactly as what you said, using the "new" att/yahoo webmail. They all went through the verification step, and generally appear to work. More about that below.

 

Which does this Help actually refer to: send-only address or send-only account?

These are only email addresses that you can specify for the reply-to, i.e., what appears in the From field and who the recipient of the email thinks sent it.

Does that mean that send-only addresses just 'spoof' the recipient into believing that is who sent it?

 

Some more details of the initial problem:

I have Email addresses at three providers. For this post, consider them to be myaddress@provider1.com, myaddress@provider2.com, and myaddress@att.net. I can also log into the webmail for each of the three providers at their website.

 

A year ago, I moved my ISP from provider2 to AT&T. Shortly thereafter I installed Thunderbird.
I have one Email address at provider1, five at provider2, and one at att. My outgoing server (SMTP) for provider1 is their server, although the att outbound server also works. For provider2 and AT&T, I use the att outbound server, smtp.mail.att.net, Port 587

 

Up until two weeks ago, I could receive emails sent to any of my Email addresses, reply to those emails, or send new emails.

 

Everything still works for provider1 and att. I can still RECEIVE emails sent to my provider2 addresses, but if I tried to respond, or send a NEW email from one of the provider2 addresses, I got this Thunderbird error message: "An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: Request failed; Mailbox unavailable. Please verity that your email address is correct in your account settings, and try again." I spoke to a technician at provider2. He did not know of any changes at their end which would have caused this problem.

 

That led me to setting up the send-only addresses in AT&T/Yahoo mail for all 5 of the provider 2 addresses. That mostly works. I can now send from the provider2 addresses to both the 'outside world' and to any of my other accounts in provider1, provider2, and AT&T. But sometimes it takes 24 hours before it is 'received'.

 

The strange thing is that I did NOT have to set up a send-only account for provider1. It is still shown in AT&T mail as 'not verified'. Provider 1 is Compuserve/AOL, which also uses Yahoo mail with a different name on the header, just like AT&T does. Perhaps that makes a difference to how AT&T handles it.

 

If the send-only addresses just 'spoof' the recipient into believing that is who sent it, why does this solution work when I could not send or reply to from any provider2 accounts until I made this change?

 

Harry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 years ago

Does that mean that send-only addresses just 'spoof' the recipient into believing that is who sent it?

Yes.  Not exactly a "spoof" though considering it's a actual real working email address.  When spammer spoof the reply-to it's usually a black hole.

 

That led me to setting up the send-only addresses in AT&T/Yahoo mail for all 5 of the provider 2 addresses. That mostly works. I can now send from the provider2 addresses to both the 'outside world' and to any of my other accounts in provider1, provider2, and AT&T. But sometimes it takes 24 hours before it is 'received'.

Not sure why there would be such a delay when sending on provider2.  I assume all you have set for them is the reply-to's.  Maybe provider2, assuming it's not att (yahoo or aol) is causing the delay when trying to send through the att/yahoo servers.  Why not just use provider2's own SMTP or doesn't it allow you to specify reply-to's that are not in it's system?  Also not sure why you chose port 587 for smtp.mail.att.net.  While valid is there some reason you didn't use 465?

 

The strange thing is that I did NOT have to set up a send-only account for provider1. It is still shown in AT&T mail as 'not verified'. Provider 1 is Compuserve/AOL, which also uses Yahoo mail with a different name on the header, just like AT&T does. Perhaps that makes a difference to how AT&T handles it.

The way you described your setup I am not sure why you include it in your description of your setup at all.  You said you are using provider1's SMTP server.  Now I know provider1 is AOL but you never said you wanted to set it's reply-to too.  If you do, then to what?  Also att?

 

Both yahoo and aol are run by OATH (which is owned by verizon).  I don't know how tightly coupled the mail servers are between aol and yahoo and with att being a yahoo customer, att as well.  I am not familiar with AOL so I don't know if they have the same verification scheme as yahoo for reply-to's or not.

 

By the way, in all the cases where you are using the att/yahoo servers I recommend using a secure mail key in place of the account passwords.  This shouldn't change anything but it is recommended for added security particularly if any of those email accounts are on mobile devices.

 

Quite a mess.  Hard to keep track of "who's on first"Man SurprisedMan Happy

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41 Messages

5 years ago

xyzzy:

 

Why not just use provider2's own SMTP or doesn't it allow you to specify reply-to's that are not in it's system?

That is what I did until a few weeks ago, even though I stopped using them as my ISP in August. But when I spoke to the tech about the problems, he said I was not allowed to use it because I was no longer a customer, though he could not explain why I was able to do so from August until just recently. That sent me to 'Plan B'.

 

Also not sure why you chose port 587 for smtp.mail.att.net. While valid is there some reason you didn't use 465?

When I was setting up my Thunderbird, the person on a Thunderbird forum that was helping me with other issues suggested 587. And it seems to work fine. If your experience says 465 is better, I have no problem changing.

 

The way you described your setup I am not sure why you include it (Compuserve)  in your description of your setup at all. You said you are using provider1's SMTP server. Now I know provider1 is AOL but you never said you wanted to set it's reply-to too.

I don't have a good answer to that. When I was trying to solve the provider2 problem, a person on the Thunderbird forum suggested the reply-to feature. So I put my Compuserve account there also. Maybe I can remove it. My only hesitation is that Compuserve is my primary (99%) Email address, so I don't want to loose it while I am experimenting.

 

Both yahoo and aol are run by OATH (which is owned by verizon). I don't know how tightly coupled the mail servers are between aol and yahoo and with att being a yahoo customer, att as well.

I know that shortly after I moved my ISP to AT&T, I was constantly pestered to sign the Oath pledge, which I finally did. Even after reading all of their Oath info, I was never sure exactly what I was giving up by signing it.

 

By the way, in all the cases where you are using the att/yahoo servers I recommend using a secure mail key in place of the account passwords.

I read the link you sent me to, and subsequent links. Unless I am missing something, it just seem like something else that I have to remember. Why is this key more secure than my passwords?

 

Quite a mess.

 

We both agree on this one! I have seriously considered just deleting all my provider2 Email addresses from Thunderbird, and adding a few extra AT&T addresses. That would eliminate most of the problems. The only reason I have hesitated is that some people still use one of my provider2 addresses. If there was a forwarding feature in either Thunderbird or on my provider2's webmail page, I would do that. But so far I have not found such a feature.

 

Harry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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When I was setting up my Thunderbird, the person on a Thunderbird forum that was helping me with other issues suggested 587. And it seems to work fine. If your experience says 465 is better, I have no problem changing.

I don't think there's a "better" for this.  It's just that I think using 465 is more common.  At least that's what I always use.  That's why you mentioning 587 caught my eye immediately.

 

I don't have a good answer to that. When I was trying to solve the provider2 problem, a person on the Thunderbird forum suggested the reply-to feature. So I put my Compuserve account there also. Maybe I can remove it. My only hesitation is that Compuserve is my primary (99%) Email address, so I don't want to loose it while I am experimenting.

Your original setup description said provider1 (aol/compuserve) was using provider1's SMTP server ("My outgoing server (SMTP) for provider1 is their server").  Ths is why I questioned as to why you even bothered mentioning provider1 at all.  It seems it's an entirely distinct email setup with its own POP/IMAP/SMTP servers and that's what you are using there.

 

If provider2 and 3 that seem to be your problems.

 

This is all getting too confusing.  Instead of trying to fix what you got it might be much easier to describe exactly what you are trying to do.  Which of these do you want different reply-to and to which provider (1, 2, or 3)?  Which of these are to use which SMTP server. 

 

A suggested notation might be as follows:

 

p1 = provider1 (AOL)    smtp = smtp1    email account on p1 is e11

p2 = provider2  (???)    smtp = smtp2    email accounts on p2 are e21, e22, e23, e24, e25

p3 = provider3 (ATT)     smtp = smtp3    email account on p3 is e31

 

For each email account (exy) what  SMTP server do they use and what is to be their reply-to?

For each email service provider (p1, p2, p3) what is to be its SMTP server (smpt1, smpt2, smpt3) and what email (exy) is to be its reply-to (exy)?

 

The way you originally described it:

 

e11 uses smpt1 and it's reply-to is e11

e21...e25 all use smpt3 and it's reply-to's are what?

e31 uses smpt3 and it's reply to is what?

 

Even after reading all of their Oath info, I was never sure exactly what I was giving up by signing it.

Basically most of your privacy.  They are going to mine all your email for anything they can get out of it to monetize.

 

Why is this key more secure than my passwords?

Nobody has ever questioned me about "why" before.  Glad you asked....

 

The reasoning behind the secure mail key is to add another layer of security for your account. If you use your account password in your email client(s) then theoretically if the device(s) containing the client(s) falls into the wrong hands there is the possibility a clever hacker could extract your account and its password. Then they could log into your account to do all sorts of mischief and get your personal info. But if the client(s) only have the secure key they cannot log into your account. You can then also make it impossible for them to even use the email client(s) simply by logging into your account and changing the secure mail key.

 

The concept of a secure mail key is not unique to att email.  Other systems have them too but are usually referred to as "application passwords" or something similar.  Att used the term "secure mail key" I guess since it's only used for email.  The more general term "application password" is for system that allow you to generate these kind of passwords for other kinds of apps in addition to email.  Yahoo refers to them as "3rd party app passwords".

 

If there was a forwarding feature in either Thunderbird or on my provider2's webmail page, I would do that. But so far I have not found such a feature.

Thunderbird would be too late.  It needs to be intercept at delivery time to the servers.  Provider 2 doesn't have forwarding support?  well I guess that's possible.  A while back att/yahoo was considering eliminating forwarding outside of their servers.  So far they haven't carried out on that threat...yet!

 

So basically it seems you want p1 to continue using it's own servers and reply-to to e11 (presumably like it always has).  Similarly e31 to be a "pure" att account using the att servers and a reply-to to e31 which is the usual default.  Finally e21...e25 to send through smpt3 (not smpt2) with a reply-to set to I guess e21...e25 respectively?  Is that what you are trying to do?

 

If it is then in TB e11 and e31 are set up as two normal accounts using their own respective SMTP servers.  Then you need to set up 5 more accounts for e21...e25 each using p3's (att) SMTP server assuming P2 allows you to send out through another email service's server since I am not sure all do.  Try setting up just e21 as a test case.  If it works copy the settings for it when you create e22...e25 in TB. 

 

This post has gotten way out of hand so by now I am probably missing something.

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5 years ago

xyzzy:

 

I haven't forgotten your questions. Unfortunately I have been quite busy on non-computer items, plus I have had to do a little research to answer some of your questions.  I hope to post in a few days.

 

 

Harry

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Heh, I completely forgot about this thread since I read so many.Man Happy

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5 years ago

xyzzz:

 

You said: My answers, (which I think are correct), follow your statements, and are in CAPS UNDERLINED.

 

p1 = provider1 (AOL)   smtp = smtp1   email account on p1 is e11 YES

p2 = provider2 (LOCAL ISP)   smtp = smtp2   email accounts on p2 are e21, e22, e23, e24, YES (I DELETED E25)

p3 = provider3 (ATT) smtp = smtp3   email account on p3 is e31 YES

 

For each email account (exy) what SMTP server do they use and what is to be their reply-to?

 

For each email service provider (p1, p2, p3) what is to be its SMTP server (smpt1, smpt2, smpt3) and what email (exy) is to be its reply-to (exy)?

SMPT1=SMTP.AOL.COM  

SMPT2=SMTP.MAIL.ATT.NET  

SMPT3=SMTP.MAIL.ATT.NET  

 

 

The way you originally described it:

 

e11 uses smpt1 and its reply-to is e11 YES

 

e21...e25 all use smpt3 and its reply-to's are what? E21, E22, E23, E24 (AS NOTED ABOVE, DELETED E25)

 

e31 uses smpt3 and its reply to is what? E31

 

Provider 2 doesn't have forwarding support? AS IT TURNS OUT, IT DOES. I SET UP E21 TO FORWARD TO E11, AND IT WORKS FINE. I HAVE THE OPTIONS TO KEEP A LOCAL COPY ON E21 (WHICH I HAVE BEEN DOING JUST TO MAKE SURE IT ALL WORKS) AND TO FORWARD TO MULTIPLE RECIPIENTS, IF I CHOOSE.

 

You questioned why I have a send-only Email address for my Compuserve/AOL account. I guess you need the whole story. I started with Compuserve back when they were in Columbus, OH. Had an Apple II, with a dial-up modem. My local cable TV provider (provider2) added internet service with a modem about when I got Windows 98, so I bought that service. and used provider2's smtp2 for e11 as well as for e21, etc. Somewhere along the way AOL purchased Compuserve. They no longer charged Compuserve customers to use their internet service, so I kept it, but was not using smtp1.

 

I didn't like the 'free' Email programs because I had no control over when they made changes. I purchased Forte's Agent, which was/is primarily a newsreader. I thought their Email program was well organized, and easy to use and understand. It uses POP3. My Agent accounts included both Compuserve/AOL and provider2. But POP3 (at least at Agent) has real problems with Emails that contain lots of graphics, and with some attachments.

 

Provider2 has always had a very slow upload speed. Their 100 Mbs download comes with a 5 Mbs upload. Even their new fiber 1000 Mbs service only has a 10 Mbs upload speed. I do the website for a local non-profit, plus I upload some very large files. So when AT&T strung fiber by my house last summer, and I learned that their 1000 Mbs service had 1000 Mbs download & upload, I switched my internet service from provider2 to provider3 (AT&T).

 

I was inquiring on the Agent forum about Email programs that would more easily handle graphics AND the user could control upgrades. One of the forum members used Thunderbird, and is quite knowledgeable about it. So I moved to Thunderbird. I initially used the AT&T outbound server (smtp3) for all of my accounts: Compuserve/AOL, provider2, and AT&T. Somewhere along the line a person on the Thunderbird forum recommended that I set up a reply-to feature for my Compuserve Email address.

 

I had some problems (not the current ones), and since 99.9% of my Emails are through my Compuserve account, the Agent forum member had suggested that I use the Compuserve/AOL outbound server. But as I said in one of my earlier posts, it is shown as 'not verified' in AT&T/Yahoo Mail. I never worried about that, because it functions just fine. And so did my provider2 Email accounts (e21, etc.), until recently: hence this thread.

 

So based on what you have told me, and since I am using the Compuserve/AOL outbound server (smtp1) I assume that I can delete the send-only account for Compuserve?

 

So there you have it. And much longer than your reply, unfortunately!

 

 

Harry

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This thread has been spread out over so much time it's hard for me to keep up on all the details without having to go back and re-reading the entire thing.

 

So based on what you have told me, and since I am using the Compuserve/AOL outbound server (smtp1) I assume that I can delete the send-only account for Compuserve?

I would say you should access all these non-att accounts through their own respective servers.  Then you don't need the reply-to's in TB.  They are completely independent of att/yahoo email and it's exactly what you had before ever signing up for att.  Now you're just using your att service a "pipe" to the internet.  If they do need reply-to's then you have to set that up with whatever the requisite procedure is for those services, if any.

 

The att email account would of course similarly use it's own att/yahoo servers.   Only if you decide to send though the att SMTP server for those non-att accounts do you need to set up their respective send-only addresses in the att/yahoo webmail.  You would also do it for the att account too if you don't want the default reply-to. 

 

If a reply-to setup in the att/yahoo webmail doesn't get through the verify step for some reason then I don't know what's preventing it.

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41 Messages

5 years ago

xyzzz:

 

I would say you should access all these non-att accounts through their own respective servers. Then you don't need the reply-to's in TB. They are completely independent of att/yahoo email and it's exactly what you had before ever signing up for att. Now you're just using your att service a "pipe" to the internet. If they do need reply-to's then you have to set that up with whatever the requisite procedure is for those services, if any.

I deleted the 'send only account for' Compuserve/AOL, since it now uses it's own outbound server (smtp1). Seems to be working fine so far.

 

I never had one for AT&T, since it has always used it's own outbound server (smtp3).

 

As I said in my 1st post in this thread, I no longer have access to my local provider's network (smtp2) since I moved to AT&T. I therefore had to set up my local provider Email accounts to use AT&T's outbound server (stmp3).  I did not need to use the 'send only account' method until a few months ago. But since I set up the 'send only account'  for local provider's Email accounts using stmp3, they now works fine again.

 

In the long run, I will probably just set up more Email accounts at AT&T, and 'forward' all my provider 2 Email accounts to AT&T accounts. Finally  I will delete the Email accounts I have at provider2. Then the issue goes away completely.

 

Thanks for all your help and patience on this issue.

 

 

Harry

 

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