Fixed Wireless High Packet Loss

So much for AT&T's ad campaign of "Just ok is not ok." More like it's "It's just ok, ok?"

@malleable_malus Man, I've been quiet in here for a couple of days because of some back and forth with AT&T re: FCC complaint - been letting them do their thing. Had technician out today who was dispatched via a work order added from the office of the president. I'm now pointed to a different tower, with a better average RSRP (-96), RSRQ (-14), and RSSINR (13) all the way around. Same issues, dropped packets, slow loading pages, stream buffering (only during ads, which OooooK?) useless RTSP, ~1.5Mbps throughput from VPN, and other shenanigans). Issues get 'better' when cycling ONT/Antenna to get an IP/Gateway that isn't goobered up (3 times tonight after the new antenna placement).

A few posters in this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ATT/comments/ex9fp6/problems_with_att_fixed_wireless_long_post/ are total gaslighting hacks. They're ignoring the time issue re: end of 2019. Two of them are also very rude to the guy for no darn reason - like it's his fault AT&T deprioritized his traffic on a whim with 0 explanation in December.

They are right that ping and traceroute are imperfect troubleshooting and analysis tools as used, BUT - they do help point you in the right direction. Also, how are we supposed to test our connections (which are wonky or we wouldn't be testing them this vigorously in the first place), when all AT&T offers is a faked speedtest result?

While I understand the need for queuing and throttling - I think we deserve a more sophisticated and capable implementation.

P.S.

People saying they are using a cellphone hotspot and/or tablet SIM and are getting 'better' results - I am having the opposite result here. Both an AT&T tablet SIM and an AT&T iPhone are having worse packetloss and speed than the fixed wireless here. So, toss that wrinkle into this weird mess as well :)

I'm hesitant to post this, but I tried rebooted the antenna via the 192.xxxxxxx address, and.................it worked. Gamed on Battlefield V for PC for hours with latency 70-100, no disconnects. Still can't believe it. We'll see how long it lasts.

Remember the user named TinGA? They are the ones that posted they received 11.6 firmware then never posted again.

Now all their posts are gone and that user doesn't even exist anymore.

@malleable_malus I wonder whether that was malicious or if they just gave up with AT&T, canceled their 'service' and deleted their account?

@connectionless_in_bfe I honestly think TinGA was just a (Edited per community guidelines).

Oh and it’s just telling me I’m constantly dropping frames. I live in Kentucky btw

@Markus_r When the service was great, for a period of about 3 1/2 months - from July to November - then I would have tried it. Two of my nephews and I were able to play Classic Wow together, using voice comms, all from the same network.

There was a period of several weeks where we didn't have the time to play, but after that, two of us could not stay connected for more than a minute and there was no chance of using voice comms at all. Another issue was that once the connection started going south, our monthly usage started to get insanely high, in comparison to previous months with really no difference in our activity.

These days, during the afternoon, even loading web pages is unbearable, and that's with only one person using the connection actively.

I have to use this connection to do work, and it requires me to be remotely connected to services to develop software, in this case something I've been actively working on for over four years. We finally have a client now and this is becoming insanely frustrating. It's currently running okay at the moment, but I only attribute that to the fact there isn't much traffic on AT&Ts network at the moment.

lol I’m that guy, just wanted to see if someone was experiencing problems with frame loss due to packetloss

@CaptainGumby maybe DNS? i have seen in my logs / monitoring the packet loss hitting both att dns and 3rd party. When DNS response impaired that presents as slow webpage loading etc

@CaptainGumby Yep. I have this problem constantly since FWI went to ****.

9 times out of 10 I either get a blank page, or various error messages when trying to load up pretty much any site for paying bills or any sort of financial stuff, including at&t's. If I do happen to be able to login to those types of sites, I usually get booted after 4 or 5 minutes. That's a major problem. And it wasn't like this before, no matter what they try and say. Been forced to use my phones data whenever I need to do that stuff now, which is not ideal, as I don't have a high data plan on my phone due to not personally ever having a need for it. That's what my home internet is supposed to be for.

As a side thought, and I'm just throwing stuff against the wall here, but I'm curious if this problem has anything to do with att-tv that is set to launch soon.

Get yourself a new IP by power cycling the ONT/Antenna.

Set your computer to use some third party DNS (OpenDNS has been much better routing results for me than Google and oddly, AT&T while on this Fixed Wireless Connection).

HTTPS is still SLOW though (and getting slower).

@lottytx @dennisharrison I feel pretty confident it's not a DNS issue. I've used OpenDNS, Google, Level3, Cloudflare, and the DNS servers at my office - all with the same results. The sites I'm seeing issues with resolve and pull up fine. I just can't stay connected for much longer than a few mins before getting kicked back to the logon screen or I'm immediately redirected back to the logon screen like @unleadedgass gets with their alarm/banking sites. Feels like I'm getting my session torn down or reset.

@CaptainGumby That's a bummer. Just sharing the quick and dirty for a possible temporary improvement. Are you able to run some connection logging to see why you're being redirected? Is one of the sites something I can log into for testing? I haven't (as of yet) had issues with keeping a session active with HTTPS on port 443 with chrome on windows 10.

On a hunch, I'd say you're likely to see an improvement by picking up an IP address that's shared with less devices (how do we know if it's less devices? who knows! lol, sorry). Sometimes once my connection goes to crap I need to cycle the POE injector for the cell modem (antenna) 2 or 3 times. You'll be able to tell you're on a better or worse one by looking at packetloss via ICMP (but better if you have something like iperf somewhere with a solid connection to hit).

Hope that helps you out in the short term.

Maybe you run your own DNS Server on your local network and source from those sites and if so I agree. Most residential configurations query DNS directly, more real-time, and are more sensitive to interference.

My observations show intermittent and selective impacts to DNS from L3 and Cloudflare but little to zero on google.

I run constant ping logging to 20+ sites from 2 separate ISPs 1) my ATT wan at my residence and 2) my office ISP wan (not - ATT, business class, does not touch packets). This setup allows a cross reference any suspected interference on the ATT connection.

My observations over the past 6 weeks strongly suggests ATT packet management impairs some 3rd party DNS. Less so midnight -7am. Greater weekdays 7pm-11pm.

Another observation, the ATT DNS1 server (68 94 157 1) shows alot of stress. I do not use ATT dns for my dns.

@malleable_malus That was odd. I don't understand the desire to defend the dismal performance of our connection. How about those guys on the reddit post talking about how extreme packetloss is "just the nature of wireless connections" too?

I know I keep saying I'm going to get around to it (we're in the middle of moving AND starting construction at another location - so I get a pass, lol), but really going to try this week - spinning up a few containers on servers I deal with for my day job that will automate some logs that I can (hopefully) pull into a concise report that we can use as a tool.

Please though, if anyone here knows of a tool that is already available to help - don't hesitate to fill me in! Like I said, haven't been in the loop as much for the last decade.

@dennisharrison It doesn't make sense to me to delete all of a user's posts just because the user is deleted so I don't know if all the posts getting expunged is covering tracks.

@TinGA's (the one lying about receiving 11.6 firmware) posts and account were also completely deleted and they posted nothing inflammatory so I would not be surprised if TinGA and Trudat556 were the same person.

@malleable_malus huh, another one was TinGA too - with that bogus firmware version post. I'll eat my hat if firmware version has anything to do with this. There's some top-secret-squirrel stuff going on with regards to bandwidth queuing - no doubt about it. I know I shouldn't be optimistic, but I do really think these people working in the president's office (cool sounding name, I'm sure it's a combination legal/HR/PR outfit that has some elevated pull compared to a single department though) are genuinely trying to get to the bottom of this and would love to find a resolution.

BTW, would you be comfortable running a docker container or virtual machine I sent your way to generate automated reports (if I can't find a readily available tool that does this already)?

@dennisharrison I really would not be comfortable doing that. I'm sorry; I'm sure you understand.

I forgot to say to be on the lookout for Trudat556 registering under a new name. I'm sure they just can't stay away from us.

I'm half-tempted to set up a Discord server for all of us.

@malleable_malus I'm disappointed, but I do understand :) We need a way of generating a 'known quantity" set of test results from multiple Fixed Wireless installs to have the best traction. Out of curiosity, what does testmy.net say about your connection right now? Are you able to run the dslreports.com/speedtest and does it mention anything about you being behind a proxy and it may effect your results?

P.S.

I think taking this thread/discussion/information-sharing anywhere more private (like discord) is not in our best interest for possible resolution time frame.

I wish we could get the message out to others.

@jeniferpace They'll say it's congestion but if it is, it's congestion by their own design because it doesn't begin at the towers or antyhing, it begins at the separate route that Fixed Wireless users are sent down at the core network for...whatever reason.

We are basically forced off a high speed interstate onto a 15mph dirt road while Fiber/U-Verse traffic is let through as I understand it. This is what I've gathered reading people's posts that are way more knowledgeable than me from this thread, other threads on this forum, Reddit, and DSLReports. I've been reading these threads since the end of December.

Packets are packets so I can't think of a legitimate honest reason for ours to be treated differently than any other. THen again, I'm no network engineer.

Your right. AT&T lied again.

@jeniferpace If you have the option - you should! I don't right now. Seriously, if you can get a local ISP to give you microwave or something like that (MVNO on AT&T or Verizon networks will be a hit/miss situation with an unknowable future), you absolutely should consider it.

I was told when I called that others from Alabama and Mississippi were having problem but as usual AT&T did not tell truth. if it's in other areas as well. It's hard when you have to pay a fortune because you don't live in a city. I watch their commercials and just want to yell, don't fall for it!

Ive been doing alot of testing and observation on this issue the last several weeks and based on the times the internet becomes unusable and watching at the same time the Packet Loss skyrocketing, I feel pretty confident this is a new and very aggressive form of Traffic Shaping FAP being enforced on us comparible to how the Satellite companies do it.

I remember right before leaving ViaSat I had their so called "Freedom" Plan and was supposedly Grandfathered and literally overnight they basically changed the terms of our agreement and started enforcing their speed cap on my plan making it unusable during prime time basically de prioritizing my traffic to force me off the Plan and on to one that was much worse.

That move was the whole reason I switched to AT&T Fixed Wireless. But Hey. If it Looks like a Duck, Walks like a Duck, Quaks like a Duck, it must be a Duck.

I think this smells like an aggressive Fair Access Policy to me because it likely is one. It's certainly throwing those Vibes out.

@unleadedgass I started writing down the dates I called because I was told we will call you back in 48 hours, no calls or emails to let me know anything.

@jeniferpace It's because they don't know anything themselves, most likely. The people taking the calls are probably just as tired of receiving calls as we are with making them and they either don't know or are not allowed to give us an answer. It isn't their fault they are left swinging in the breeze by the higher-ups.

People here have contacted the higher levels of authority within AT&T and get the same run-around. They continue following the script and insisting it's "on our end."

They won't even just say they are intentionally throttling or de-prioritizing our traffic. That's not an answer I like but at least it's an answer. I'm going to assume that that is true until they say otherwise.

I don't know if it will do anything or not, but I went ahead and emailed http://www.dslreports.com/ telling them about our issues in hopes that maybe they can look into it.

I know they cant fix it, but I figured if they can somehow bring more attention to what's going on, that's a good thing. Don't hurt to try, lol.

http://www.dslreports.com/tips

http://www.dslreports.com/contacts

Good to know I'm not alone. My upload speeds this afternoon have been under 1mbps and I'm trying to work from home. It'll get bad enough, I'll sign into my verizon hotspot on my phone and just use that. Download speeds are fine, but I'm seeing packet losses in my ping plotter, low upload speeds and like everyone else, early mornings...great. Evenings every day of the week? Forget it. Weekends? nope. What's awful is I've been on this service since Dec 2018 and except for the secure web page issue I had that they've since resolved, the service I got in my rural Tennessee home has been absolutely outstanding. I recommended it to my neighbor and a friend about 20 miles from here. Everyone has the same problem. Something is wrong. It took them a LONG time to fix the secure website issue so perhaps they are looking into this. I know when they fixed the secure website issue, it worked for several months, then it stopped working, then it started working. When I asked about it, they sent out the technician. I was like "uh hi Jeff, you can't fix this" and he checked a few things and went to the next place. Hopefully they will fix this soon too. Also for those of you having the secure website issue, I used my hotspot or the free version of Kasperskey VPN, which worked.

@Starstruck setup an account and then start a post in the att / uverse forum.

@Captain318 I was on satellite for 13 years and since December 2019 the satellite connection and my Fixed Wireless are indistinguishable sometimes.

I keep reiterating the December 2019 because I know Fixed Wireless can be so much more than it is now and that is exactly when they bailed out of the FCC speed test program. They are too dishonest for the FCC, I guess? (which is saying something)

@rose2192 Welcome, Rose; good to have another voice here. Did your trouble also begin around December 2019?

Yes, with a steady decline over the last couple of months. Such a shame. It was a really great service for those in the sticks. Even gaming was really good. I dont even try now. I figure I'll just get disconnects.

@lottytx I will attempt to do so when I get back home. I say attempt because I seem to always have trouble posting there for some reason, lol

Has anybody heard from them? Speeds are good but the packetloss makes browsing and gaming impossible. Does anybody have a solution around this?

I’ve talked to a lady from the presidents office a few times today. She asked if the “update” had changed anything. I told her no, if anything it’s worse. Both latency and packet loss have been high. She told me that their team is working everyday on fixing this problem. She also told me that only approximately 200 customers in 13 states were being affected by this. I told her that last night I used my iPad for a hotspot for my Xbox and everything worked perfect, unlike with my fixed internet which makes it impossible to do anything through Xbox live. She couldn’t give me a completion date but that they are working everyday on it. Seems odd to me that few of customers are having problems.

Its been going on for about 4 or 5 months now and my bill is almost $200 a month. It’s really frustrating, they aren’t receiving another payment from me until this gets fixed. It’s horrible

@Cole8767 Don't know of course but I'd bet money it's way more than 200 customers. Count me here in E. Tx. as part of the 200 if that's all there is.

@Markus_r Replacing the PACE with a router that supports FQ_CODEL and setting upload to about 70% of what you get during peak usage time using AT&T's speed test, and setting MTU to 1392, has reduced my packetloss significantly - as in cut it in half or better (as well as my upload speed - but at least it's much more stable now).

This is a non-trivial setup requiring MAC address cloning and VLAN tagging. It also means you need to hook the PACE back up whenever someone on the AT&T side is trying to do anything with your connection.

Have you tried power cycling the "antenna" via the POE box connected to the WAN port on your PACE and seeing if you get much better throughput with a different IP?

@dennisharrison Could you try to explain in more detail? You use a separate router? I have a net gear router but I only tried bridging that one and unfortunately I couldn’t get that to work. How are you obtaining a new IP address? I know you can go into the gateway settings and reboot the antenna

@Markus_r Sure thing - before we get you replacing your router, let's go through some simple crud first!

Can you first disable the beamforming and other shenanigans going on with your PACE router (if you're on wireless)?

Go to:

192.168.1.254 >> Settings >> LAN >> Wi-Fi >> Advanced Options (this one is just a little link towards the top of the section) >> AND THEN make sure you have different "Network Name (SSID)" different for your 2.4GHz and 5GHz Wi-Fi Radio Configuration sections. I used "myconnection" and "myconnection5G" as an example. Let's disable the Guest Network while here as well. Let me know if you run into any questions here. (try this link: http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=C_2_1c )

Now let's check your current IP/Mask/Gateway:

192.168.1.254 >> Settings >> Broadband > Internet Details - Current Internet Connection

We want to keep track of:

1) Date and Time

2) IP Address

3) Subnet Mask

4) Default Gateway

Then go to the black box with a toggle-power switch with one cable running to your PACE gateway and another to the "antenna" outside, turn the switch to off. Wait 2 minutes (let's make sure we don't get the same IP), turn it back on.

Wait 3 minutes and then check the PACE for IP/Mask/Gateway again. If it's different than what you just kept track of (in the last step above), then see if your connection is better.

If you connection is not better, please do this another time so you get yet another IP Address, and test again.

Please reply with any comments/observations and we'll take it from there :)

@dennisharrison Did everything and got a different IP but it seems to be worse?

@Markus_r Get another IP. Can you let me know the gateway and subnet you got each time?

@rose2192 Rose, I saw your post here:

https://forums.att.com/conversations/att-internet-features/vpn-and-secure-work-sites-5268ac-fxn-gateway/5df00ce3bad5f2f606fca434

...and your ssl issues sound exactly like the ones I'm having. You mentioned above that they had resolved the problem. Mind sharing the resolution? I'm having the same issues.

@malleable_malus I think it's become pretty clear that this is a widespread issue across the nation for AT&T Fixed Wireless customers. There are 50+ people that have arrived at this thread, and I believe we've all come from a similar path to reach it:

(1.) actually realizing there was a sudden & major change to the quality and consistency of the service around Dec 2019

(2.) went through the motions with AT&T customer service/technicians/etc to attempt to fix the issue

(3.) began searching online for a solution or to narrow down the possibility of it being a "it's on your side" problem

With that in mind, think about how many customers didn't even reach step 1 or 2 of that process. I'd be willing to wager it's much more than just the people commenting here given the fact that most people probably wouldn't even notice or bother and assume that's just how it will be from now on.

Hopefully our effort will eventually get this solved for everyone, so keep it up guys. All we want is the Fixed Wireless internet service we had prior to the change that occurred in December 2019. It's certainly not impossible to fix.

The one thing I picked up on keeping an eye on it the past few days is this:

When I'm gaming, the packet loss, etc, is pretty much non-existent between like 9AM-2-3PM (Most of the time), during 4 to 5PM until 11:30PM or so, it's pretty terrible. Close to around 12AM up until I go to bed, it's pretty much working flawless. This pattern has been pretty consistent and not much in the way of it being random. However, tonight my modem has been going in and out as if service is being worked on (but that's hoping for too much at this point). So we'll see how long this keeps going.

@malleable_malus I'm also honored you didn't leave out my name on the list. :p

@espespesp great summary.

@malleable_malus Added chris_odom and Agburnsky to the list. 54 names currently

I've combed through all the pages of this thread and am monitoring other posts so I'm pretty sure I've gotten everyone.

Added:

BadInnernet

New Total: 55

Note: I'm updating the original post of names so it's all in one spot for future reference.

@malleable_malus

Added:

sethm

robjderr

New Total: 57

Hey all,

Wanted to report that I just got off the phone with ATT Fixed Wireless tech support. They are fulling acknowledging that this is an ATT network issue and that it is affecting fixed wireless customers only. Further, the tech said multiple times that they have labeled this issue an outage and have a team dedicated to it.

We also went through about 30 minutes of her taking down any information that I could give her in order to pass to the networking team. I stressed multiple times that Speed Tests were not necessarily indicative of actual internet performance and that the speeds can show "fine" while the client is experiencing 30% packet loss, making the service unusable. I also reported that many ppl here show the exact same issues and that as a general trend the issues begin heavy at 3PM-11PM on weekdays and all day on weekends.

The only thing that I did not like is that she asked me multiple questions regarding https accounts with a login. I told her the issue is definitely not restricted to those type of connections and that it is a symptom of a larger issue. I kept stressing packet loss.

I dont want to get my hopes up, but I consider that them publically acknowledging this as a full outage to be a very positive step toward resolution

Fingers crossed.

@malleable_malus

Added:

dieharddan

Elisa1276

Current total: 59

@eonblue54 If this is an outage, everyone needs to call in and get partial credit for every month since December. Some of us are already getting credit each month until the problem is fixed.

@malleable_malus

Added:

ohio_guy

jscris

New Total: 62

@BadInnernet An "isolated group of customers" across Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio, Illinois, Michigan.

They were straight up lying to you.