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ppmguire's profile

Mentor

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26 Messages

Tuesday, September 26th, 2017 8:51 PM

Gigapower - Youtube Throttling #2

Since the last topic was closed, I'll make another one. That topic was created in January with a slew of "band aids" but nothing in that topic is concrete besides AT&T's issue with Youtube or the trip in between. It's almost October and I still see this issue pop up quite a bit, fellow neighbors getting Gigapower and asking me "does Youtube load slow for you?". I have had Gigapower 1Gb since May in a new neighborhood in Fort Worth, Texas and this issue has been a persistent pest since day 1. Before I had Frontier 150/150 and not once had a single issue with service in terms of speed or responsiveness of services/websites. All of the bandaids listed in the previous thread are just that, bandaids, a temporary work around for the problem that has never been resolved between AT&T and Google. 

 

  • Change DNS (Google or otherwise)
  • DIsable IPV6
  • Reset network equipment
  • Disable QUIC Protocol (this is made moot when other browsers act the same way)
  • Passthrough to new router
  • Port forwarding / DMZ

These are all things that may or may not temporarily fix this issue and I hate that the other thread was closed based on an assumption that Chrome's QUIC was the actual culprit, it's not. Matter a fact, I've had that disabled since they introduced it in beta builds. I still have this issue with Youtube on ANY device in my house besides mobile (for the reasons outlined in the other thread, the path from AT&T to Google and back is different for the mobile app). Since people are successfully bypassing this issue with a VPN it proves that it's not client side period. I may be talking to a brick wall here but the other thread had a guy that allegedly was communicating with NOC people. The only thing that I haven't seen suggested on a back end side is, has anybody looked into the possibility that it could be Akamai caching causing the slowdown? Has anybody tried to see if Youtube traffic is flowing through their traffic/caching service? Can the NOC guys confirm whether or not we are getting a direct link or flowing through a service such as Akamai? As a very heavy user I can pretty much attest that AT&T is not throttling us. With speeds like these we are limited to the speed of the other end and latency/distance. Thing is, the traces posted in the other thread had timeouts and we cannot be certain where the hop was that timed out. Maybe somebody can provide more feedback but I'm almost certain AT&T is flowing through somewhere that is a considerate bottleneck for Youtube. Youtube is the only issue I've had so far.

 

Equipment I'm using:
Completely bypassed BGW210-700

Ubiquiti USG 3

Ubiquiti Unifi 16XG
Ubiquiti Unifi 16port POE switch

Ubiquiti AC-PRO-AP

Assortment of other Ubiquiti switches etc

ALL CAT6a FTP cabling

 

Here is a picture of my traffic for this month up and down, and a picture showing about 80GB of Akamai and without digging with Wireshark I have no idea what sites are flowing through it. 

traffic.JPGtraffic 2.JPG

 

 

 

2 Attachments

ACE - Expert

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35.1K Messages

7 years ago

I can tell you that Microsoft uses Akamai quite a bit for software distribution.  I'd hope that you haven't needed 80 GB of Windows patches in a month.  I would be a bit surprised to learn that Google uses Akamai since they have their own CDN.

Keep asking the questions.  If enough different customers have the same issue, and then open support tickets with detailed information, they (1) will have to pay attention and (b) may be able to identify the common issue.

However, the issue may have already been identified and may will be the same issue Netflix ran into when they became very popular: they're generating too much traffic for the peering interconnects to AT&T and neither is willing to foot the bill to expand them.  IMHO, as the traffic generator and the party being compensated to generate this traffic, Google should be the one responsible for taking care of overloaded peering.

 

 

Teacher

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9 Messages

7 years ago

This is driving me nuts as well. I cancelled Cox and got AT&T gigapower, which was a huge mistake. Youtube is almost useless without a VPN. As soon as my year is up with AT&T I'm going back to Cox. I NEVER had this problem with cox and I'm using the same router I used with cox, which I've attached to the worthless Pace modem/router AT&T provided, so I know it's not my router. 

Mentor

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26 Messages

7 years ago

I can tell you that Microsoft uses Akamai quite a bit for software distribution.  I'd hope that you haven't needed 80 GB of Windows patches in a month.  I would be a bit surprised to learn that Google uses Akamai since they have their own CDN.

Keep asking the questions.  If enough different customers have the same issue, and then open support tickets with detailed information, they (1) will have to pay attention and (b) may be able to identify the common issue.

However, the issue may have already been identified and may will be the same issue Netflix ran into when they became very popular: they're generating too much traffic for the peering interconnects to AT&T and neither is willing to foot the bill to expand them.  IMHO, as the traffic generator and the party being compensated to generate this traffic, Google should be the one responsible for taking care of overloaded peering. 

 

 

Considering other Uverse users, cable users, and other fiber users don't have an issue with Youtube I wouldn't pin that on Google. The amount of traffic they get from Youtube alone (don't forget, it's not just video streaming) is astonishing to say the least. I personally feel it's only a traffic issue that needs to be taken seriously on AT&T's end. From the other thread and with the above response on this one, it's clear they're losing customers from one thing that could presumably be fixed easily. 
You're absolutely right, I have not downloaded 80GB worth of patches in a month which is why I was asking if this caching service is used by AT&T for anything. It may not be the issue, but trying to toss suggestions because clearly it's not client side and I have serious doubts it's a Google issue.

Mentor

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26 Messages

7 years ago

To put a little more perspective on the issue here I basically went the length. 

 

Fresh install of Windows 10 on an i7 PC with 32GB of RAM, a 960 EVO M.2, ASRock Z270 with Intel NIC, all WIndows updates and drivers updated (obviously)

Google DNS

IPV6 turned off

QUIC disabled in Chrome (screen is from Chrome)

Factory reset BGW210-700 with ONLY this machine (and wifi off)

IP address to machine DMZ'd

 

This is the result I get trying to watch a 4k video from Linus Tech Tips. This is unacceptable.

 

yt.png

1 Attachment

Contributor

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2 Messages

7 years ago

Same here ppmguire this is unacceptable never had this issue when i was with Comcast business and i was paying for 50D/10U with them.

Mentor

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26 Messages

7 years ago

Same here ppmguire this is unacceptable never had this issue when i was with Comcast business and i was paying for 50D/10U with them.

 

Last night I was having some serious issues trying to watch Youtube, but immediately paused I went to Battle.net app and downloaded a large Overwatch update between 90 and 100MB/s. Definitely a Youtube issue, and it's definitely being choked during a hop timeout. Without knowing the exact path AT&T takes to area specific Youtube/Google services I cannot specifically say where the issue is. Was hoping to get traffic from the guy in the previous thread that supposedly knew NOC people. Tonight I'm loading 4k videos just fine. This just goes to show it's not a client side issue at all. I'm also surprised no actual AT&T people from the boards (I've seen a few) have replied here. 

Explorer

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6 Messages

7 years ago

Thanks for trying to put this obvious problem back on the front burner. The only way I've been able to make it work, is stay behind my VPN. You seem to have a handle on it, just can't get anything done. Being from Cowtown I had to at least jump in and give you a bump.Smiley Happy

Tutor

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7 Messages

7 years ago

sounds like a personal grudge with youtube from at&t i can download games 80+MB/s  normal downloads are decent but let me load a youtube video and its like  being on dial up but let me use a VPN and its like watching a true connection come alive on videos 

Mentor

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26 Messages

7 years ago

2 more VPN posts and no traction with anybody who has contact with the NOC. I guess I can say I tried. Using the Shield I can stream 4k videos without a hiccup so it's definitely a route for the desktop side of things being hung up between AT&T and Google.

Tutor

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2 Messages

7 years ago

I've finally gotten word from AT&T that they will be running Fiber to my home.  I'm currently using an Huawei B890 4G LTE Smart Hub on T-mobile with a high gain antenna for my home internet because the only other option I had was DSL.  It works very well but when AT&T agreed to run Fiber to my home I was chomping at the bit to switch.  Now reading about YouTube throttling gives me pause. 

 

Can someone clarify for me?  Does the throttling only happen on desktops?  So if you stream YouTube over WiFi to a mobile device not issue?  What about SmartTVs, PS4, Xbox, Roku, Chromecasts, etc?

Very difficult to get good info here.  

 

Lastly, has anyone filed an FCC compliant over this issue?  Has anyone thought about bringing this to Gizmodo or any other website that could run an article on this and raise visibility? 

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