---

DimentoGraven wrote:

Interesting, is that section the same for tiered plan users?

 

Here's all the fun bits:

Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice,

"to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited"

"or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels"

"or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage"

"and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm,"

"compromised capacity"

"or degradation in performance,"

which may impact legitimate data flows.

 

So, nothing in this I see would NOT apply to a user on a tiered plan using the EXACT SAME amount of data as an 'unlimited' user.

 

I guess the part that gives AT&T the 'right' to be data "bigots" is this part:

 

"AT&T may, but is not required to, monitor your compliance, or the compliance of other subscribers, with AT&T's terms, conditions, or policies."

 

Yes, it's ugly.  We have situations where AT&T is treating the 25 dollars from the tier 2 customers as more valuable than the 30 dollars from the 'unlimited' customer, because the tier 2 customer is allowed complete access to their 2gb allotment at 'best capable' data rates, where as the "unlimited" user paid more, but gets less service... 

 

In no way shape or form is this fair, or ethical.

 

It "might" be technically legal, but just barely.

---

Sorry if you don;t feel it is ethical, but if you want to speak to ethics - that 25.00 paid for 2GB of data so they deserve the entire 2GB, if they go over they get charged for additional data usage. that is the tiered plans thottling, people on tiered plans realize that either they or the ones that foot their cell phone bill will be hit up for each additional gb they utilize over the 2GB 25.00 cost at 10.00 per gb, that is their throttle restraint. Somehow I suspect that the wraith of the bill payer will come down on a tiered data bill with additonal charges.

 

Somewhere in this mess of threads a user claimed to be using 13GB a month, on the unlimited plan they get throttled in the first 7 days of the billing cycle (13 / 4 weeks of billing or 3gb and some change used in 7 days) on the tiered plan their cost would be an additional 110.00 on their bill.

 

My billing cycle just ended on 12/24/2011, the online bill that is accessable to me showed that on my smartphone I utilied just under 1.9GB in the entire billing cycle - never recieved the throttle text, eldest daughtered used about 1.3gb, she did not recieve the throttle text.

 

For example based on a 28 day billing cycle - if you utilize 2GB in the first 7 days of you billing cycle you are on target to utilize 8gb by the end of your billing cycle, if you use the same 2g in the first 14 days of you are on target to utilize 4GB of data. It is not the total amout used but the time period that the 2gb was used in. Both myself and my eldest daugther utilize near 2gb in the full 28 days of the billing cycle so niehter where considered in the top 5 percent so no message was sent, in reviewing the previous 2 months billing for data usage the same usage of data in the same 28 billing time frame and no text message where sent.

 

By the way you would be more accurate to remove the single reference to ATT in your last paragraph, every carrier has the same type of  conitions in their contracts. One good thing about this whole issue - people are actually reading what they agreed to

---

wingrider01 wrote:

---

DimentoGraven wrote:

Interesting, is that section the same for tiered plan users?

 

Here's all the fun bits:

Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice,

"to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited"

"or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels"

"or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage"

"and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm,"

"compromised capacity"

"or degradation in performance,"

which may impact legitimate data flows.

 

So, nothing in this I see would NOT apply to a user on a tiered plan using the EXACT SAME amount of data as an 'unlimited' user.

 

I guess the part that gives AT&T the 'right' to be data "bigots" is this part:

 

"AT&T may, but is not required to, monitor your compliance, or the compliance of other subscribers, with AT&T's terms, conditions, or policies."

 

Yes, it's ugly.  We have situations where AT&T is treating the 25 dollars from the tier 2 customers as more valuable than the 30 dollars from the 'unlimited' customer, because the tier 2 customer is allowed complete access to their 2gb allotment at 'best capable' data rates, where as the "unlimited" user paid more, but gets less service... 

 

In no way shape or form is this fair, or ethical.

 

It "might" be technically legal, but just barely.

---

Sorry if you don;t feel it is ethical, but if you want to speak to ethics - that 25.00 paid for 2GB of data so they deserve the entire 2GB

 

Somewhere in this mess of threads a user claimed to be using 13GB a month, on the unlimited plan they get throttled in the first 7 days of the billing cycle (13 / 4 weeks of billing or 3gb and some change used in 7 days) on the tiered plan their cost would be an additional 110.00 on their bill.

 

My billing cycle just ended on 12/24/2011, the online bill that is accessable to me showed that on my smartphone I utilied just under 1.9GB in the entire billing cycle - never recieved the throttle text, eldest daughtered used about 1.3gb, she did not recieve the throttle text.

 

For example based on a 28 day billing cycle - if you utilize 2GB in the first 7 days of you billing cycle you are on target to utilize 8gb by the end of your billing cycle, if you use the same 2g in the first 14 days of you are on target to utilize 4GB of data. It is not the total amout used but the time period that the 2gb was used in. Both myself and my eldest daugther utilize near 2gb in the full 28 days of the billing cycle so niehter where considered in the top 5 percent so no message was sent, in reviewing the previous 2 months billing for data usage the same usage of data in the same 28 billing time frame and no text message where sent.

 

By the way you would be more accurate to remove the single reference to ATT in your last paragraph, every carrier has the same type of  conitions in their contracts. One good thing about this whole issue - people are actually reading what they agreed to

---

So wouldn't it be reasonable to believe that, for an unlimited user, $30 should get him at least 2 GB (and to be fair, it really should be 2.4 GB) of unthrottled data?  I cannot see how any pro-throttle person can think it fair and reasonable for a 5-percenter to be throttled even before he actually consumes 2-2.4 GB, especially given that a $25 tiered user can use up to 2 GB unthrottled?  Example--if someone manages to use 1 GB his first week, thus putting him in the top 5%...then yes it would seem that he would/should eventually be throttled; however, the throttling should not occur until after he's gone past the 2 (or 2.4) GB mark.  It should also be noted that--if true--AT&T appears to calculate based on the assumption that a user continues to use data at a rate that would continue to put him in the top 5% since once the user is throttled, there is pretty much no way he'll be using enough data that will allow him to use data at the rate of original determination--i.e., someone who uses data at 1 GB/week and thus gets throttled cannot possibly still manage to consume data at that rate for the remainder of the billing cycle.

---

tonester wrote:

---

wingrider01 wrote:

---

DimentoGraven wrote:

Interesting, is that section the same for tiered plan users?

 

Here's all the fun bits:

Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice,

"to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited"

"or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels"

"or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage"

"and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm,"

"compromised capacity"

"or degradation in performance,"

which may impact legitimate data flows.

 

So, nothing in this I see would NOT apply to a user on a tiered plan using the EXACT SAME amount of data as an 'unlimited' user.

 

I guess the part that gives AT&T the 'right' to be data "bigots" is this part:

 

"AT&T may, but is not required to, monitor your compliance, or the compliance of other subscribers, with AT&T's terms, conditions, or policies."

 

Yes, it's ugly.  We have situations where AT&T is treating the 25 dollars from the tier 2 customers as more valuable than the 30 dollars from the 'unlimited' customer, because the tier 2 customer is allowed complete access to their 2gb allotment at 'best capable' data rates, where as the "unlimited" user paid more, but gets less service... 

 

In no way shape or form is this fair, or ethical.

 

It "might" be technically legal, but just barely.

---

Sorry if you don;t feel it is ethical, but if you want to speak to ethics - that 25.00 paid for 2GB of data so they deserve the entire 2GB

 

Somewhere in this mess of threads a user claimed to be using 13GB a month, on the unlimited plan they get throttled in the first 7 days of the billing cycle (13 / 4 weeks of billing or 3gb and some change used in 7 days) on the tiered plan their cost would be an additional 110.00 on their bill.

 

My billing cycle just ended on 12/24/2011, the online bill that is accessable to me showed that on my smartphone I utilied just under 1.9GB in the entire billing cycle - never recieved the throttle text, eldest daughtered used about 1.3gb, she did not recieve the throttle text.

 

For example based on a 28 day billing cycle - if you utilize 2GB in the first 7 days of you billing cycle you are on target to utilize 8gb by the end of your billing cycle, if you use the same 2g in the first 14 days of you are on target to utilize 4GB of data. It is not the total amout used but the time period that the 2gb was used in. Both myself and my eldest daugther utilize near 2gb in the full 28 days of the billing cycle so niehter where considered in the top 5 percent so no message was sent, in reviewing the previous 2 months billing for data usage the same usage of data in the same 28 billing time frame and no text message where sent.

 

By the way you would be more accurate to remove the single reference to ATT in your last paragraph, every carrier has the same type of  conitions in their contracts. One good thing about this whole issue - people are actually reading what they agreed to

---

So wouldn't it be reasonable to believe that, for an unlimited user, $30 should get him at least 2 GB (and to be fair, it really should be 2.4 GB) of unthrottled data?  I cannot see how any pro-throttle person can think it fair and reasonable for a 5-percenter to be throttled even before he actually consumes 2-2.4 GB, especially given that a $25 tiered user can use up to 2 GB unthrottled?  Example--if someone manages to use 1 GB his first week, thus putting him in the top 5%...then yes it would seem that he would/should eventually be throttled; however, the throttling should not occur until after he's gone past the 2 (or 2.4) GB mark.  It should also be noted that--if true--AT&T appears to calculate based on the assumption that a user continues to use data at a rate that would continue to put him in the top 5% since once the user is throttled, there is pretty much no way he'll be using enough data that will allow him to use data at the rate of original determination--i.e., someone who uses data at 1 GB/week and thus gets throttled cannot possibly still manage to consume data at that rate for the remainder of the billing cycle.

---

if you read the whole thing I and my daughter average just under 2GB for the entire billing cycle - hafe NEVER gotten the throttle message. we don;t come near the 2gb limit until the very last few days of the billing cycle.

 

Nope - once throtlted you are thottled for the billing cycle - this is documented, it is a preaction system not a post action, they don't throttle you for the next billing cycle they throttle you for the remainder of the current billing cycle. Would be interesting to see reactions if they did apply the throttle to the next months billing cycle rather then the current - can just see the number of posts if this was the message recieved "We are sorry but betwenn 11/05 and 12/04 you consumed 6.9GB of data, becasue of this for your next billing cycle you data consumption will be throttled" (***NOTE*** this message text is purely hypotheical and has no relationshup to what is actually being sent outt ***NOTE***)

Things would hit the fan ever worse, the best solution is to sunset the plan on upgrade or change of device

---

wingrider01 wrote:

if you read the whole thing I and my daughter average just under 2GB for the entire billing cycle - hafe NEVER gotten the throttle message. we don;t come near the 2gb limit until the very last few days of the billing cycle.

 

Nope - once throtlted you are thottled for the billing cycle - this is documented, it is a preaction system not a post action, they don't throttle you for the next billing cycle they throttle you for the remainder of the current billing cycle. Would be interesting to see reactions if they did apply the throttle to the next months billing cycle rather then the current - can just see the number of posts if this was the message recieved "We are sorry but betwenn 11/05 and 12/04 you consumed 6.9GB of data, becasue of this for your next billing cycle you data consumption will be throttled" (***NOTE*** this message text is purely hypotheical and has no relationshup to what is actually being sent outt ***NOTE***)

Things would hit the fan ever worse, the best solution is to sunset the plan on upgrade or change of device

---

The fact that you never received a text stating you were approaching the 5% mark means very little since throttling is based on regional usage. It could have easy been that in your region the top 5% used 3GB, 4GB, or more in November which is why some users have reported high usage (13GB, etc.) this month without any throttling. 

From what I have gathered AT&T has started throttling only unlimited data users to relieve congestion on their network apparently because of high data usage yet I fail to understand why in regions like SF - Bay Area throttling starts at 2GB. By this theory AT&T is stating that unlimited data users using over 2GB are degrading their network, but if you're a tiered users on a 4GB plan you're fine going over 2GB with no effects on the wireless network. It seems that either AT&It's infrastructure is the problem (in which case they should throttle everyone at 2GB to relieve congestion), or AT&T is looking to make more money and kill all unlimited data plans without really improving speeds and reception for users. If AT&T wants to kill off the unlimited data plan completely then they should just come out and say it in clear terms instead of the manner they currently are using. At first I figured that they wanted to go this route so that people wouldn't change to a tiered plan themselves and not try to get out of their contract without an ETF if AT&T forced them off the unlimited plan but as some users have stated in this thread and others on the forum, data is a feature, so this changes wouldn't have a change on the ETF people would have to pay if they cancelled service (please correct me if I'm wrong on this). In my opinion AT&T should just be clear about their motives and also train their CSR's to provide clear answers and not different ones depending on which rep you talk to on the phone. If they were clear about the whole thing I might not have been so upset about the whole situation...

I also would say that if they were throttling data to relief congestion then maybe they should take a page from Verizon's book and throttle users on heavily used towers only and return users back to normal speeds once congestion has cleared or they have moved to a different tower. The fact that the 5% specialists only respond back with "if you want full speeds move to the tiered plans," makes it clear that congestion is not really the reason for throttling users. By these terms if all users in the bay area moved to a 4GB tiered data plan I would still have crappy service after passing the 2GB data usage mark so the problem would still fall back on AT&It's infrastructure and not heavy data usage. 

 

---

telistar wrote:

---

wingrider01 wrote:

if you read the whole thing I and my daughter average just under 2GB for the entire billing cycle - hafe NEVER gotten the throttle message. we don;t come near the 2gb limit until the very last few days of the billing cycle.

 

Nope - once throtlted you are thottled for the billing cycle - this is documented, it is a preaction system not a post action, they don't throttle you for the next billing cycle they throttle you for the remainder of the current billing cycle. Would be interesting to see reactions if they did apply the throttle to the next months billing cycle rather then the current - can just see the number of posts if this was the message recieved "We are sorry but betwenn 11/05 and 12/04 you consumed 6.9GB of data, becasue of this for your next billing cycle you data consumption will be throttled" (***NOTE*** this message text is purely hypotheical and has no relationshup to what is actually being sent outt ***NOTE***)

Things would hit the fan ever worse, the best solution is to sunset the plan on upgrade or change of device

---

The fact that you never received a text stating you were approaching the 5% mark means very little since throttling is based on regional usage. It could have easy been that in your region the top 5% used 3GB, 4GB, or more in November which is why some users have reported high usage (13GB, etc.) this month without any throttling. 

From what I have gathered AT&T has started throttling only unlimited data users to relieve congestion on their network apparently because of high data usage yet I fail to understand why in regions like SF - Bay Area throttling starts at 2GB. By this theory AT&T is stating that unlimited data users using over 2GB are degrading their network, but if you're a tiered users on a 4GB plan you're fine going over 2GB with no effects on the wireless network. It seems that either AT&It's infrastructure is the problem (in which case they should throttle everyone at 2GB to relieve congestion), or AT&T is looking to make more money and kill all unlimited data plans without really improving speeds and reception for users. If AT&T wants to kill off the unlimited data plan completely then they should just come out and say it in clear terms instead of the manner they currently are using. At first I figured that they wanted to go this route so that people wouldn't change to a tiered plan themselves and not try to get out of their contract without an ETF if AT&T forced them off the unlimited plan but as some users have stated in this thread and others on the forum, data is a feature, so this changes wouldn't have a change on the ETF people would have to pay if they cancelled service (please correct me if I'm wrong on this). In my opinion AT&T should just be clear about their motives and also train their CSR's to provide clear answers and not different ones depending on which rep you talk to on the phone. If they were clear about the whole thing I might not have been so upset about the whole situation...

I also would say that if they were throttling data to relief congestion then maybe they should take a page from Verizon's book and throttle users on heavily used towers only and return users back to normal speeds once congestion has cleared or they have moved to a different tower. The fact that the 5% specialists only respond back with "if you want full speeds move to the tiered plans," makes it clear that congestion is not really the reason for throttling users. By these terms if all users in the bay area moved to a 4GB tiered data plan I would still have crappy service after passing the 2GB data usage mark so the problem would still fall back on AT&It's infrastructure and not heavy data usage. 

 

---

Sorry I definately live in a major communications, business, military, manufacturing and shipping hub, so that is not the reason that we did not get the throttle message, pretty sure the reason is we only get close to 2gb inthe last few days of the billing cycle. 

 

 actually a major change in the data plan - just dropping it would have triggered the no etf cancellation clause in the contract, back when att was the last carrier that did not require a daa plan on a smartphone it had to be phased out by setting the grandfather clause to the device and not the line, you kept the grandfathered status until you upgrade or removed the device that the status flag was on, if you kept it till today as a active device with no changes it still would not have had any data plan required. the minute you changes the status flag was removed. If they really wanted to get rid of the unlimited plan they could have set the grandfather of the feature to the same requirements, upgrade or remove the device and the plan is gone.

So because they halted my internet speed, ATT gave me a call back and said they would give me 6 free months of my unlimited texting. They told me that they usually won't do such a thing but since my device is almost unusable with the dial-up speeds, they can do that for me. Not bad I guess..I never made a big deal about it either. Just asked why it's so slow.

I got the same things happen to my unlimited plan too. I was been slow down my speed down to dial up speed. I call customer service, they said I have unlimited access on my plan, but only dial up speed after over use. Over use in the unlimited Plan? Is that make sence? I think AT&T will be close business or some other provider take over soon.

ATT coercers users into tiered plan, sets precedent for future coercions into even more expensive plans in attempt to capitalize on the fact that smartphone data use will skyrocket... Hear me out:

 

It's possible for any giant, multi million dollar publicly traded corporate giant to put enough fine print into any contract between itself and the average consumer whereupon at some arbitrary point down the road some long forgotten words that are buried deep in the contract's language can be recalled and reinterpreted by a panel of Attorneys to undermine the very advertised nature and original advertised intent of said contract/service that the consumer believed they had been promised. This is the reason the word "loophole" was invented...

 

For example, ATT developed, advertised, and sold "unlimited data" plans and have met the demands of the users paying for those plans for years by allowing an unfettered amount of data to be pulled by these users at a "standard" rate of speed - true to the nature of the plan, and setting a precedent and a standard level of service that the consumer could not have possibly anticipated would degrade during the term of the contract.  In October of 2011, ATT began the policy of throttling "excessive users". Throttling = slowing ATT's contractually obligated user's speed to below what is average or standard and well below ATT's advertised 3G and 4G network speeds based on ATT's arbitrary definition of "excessive users" which is based on an ever moving and changing target known as "the top 5%." Isn't an "excessive user" on an "unlimited plan" a paradox? Also, who decides what is "excessive," isn't that subjective? ATT will not even divulge who or what the top 5% are and how they are found/calculated/accounted for. The only thing we know for sure is that the top 5% is a moving target that never shrinks. There will always be a top 5% of X to penalize.

 

ATT often refers to it's "fair use" clause in the unlimited data contract to decide for themselves what service/speeds they are obligated to provide to their unlimited data contract customers at any given time. Recently, they have begun to use this clause to affirm that while they will continue to provide unlimited data - but they are not and have not been obligated to do so at any particular speed. Thus, ATT feels justified in singling out these alleged "heavy" data users and slowing their speed down with the intent of the user's usage/speed becoming severely handicapped - all the while claiming they aren't actually "limiting" unlimited data. If throttling wasn't limiting ATT unlimited data users - then why would ATT's throttling policy even exist? What is the purpose of throttling if not to limit unlimited data users from pulling an alleged "heavy" amount of data? The intent is painfully clear and effective. If you are an unlimited data plan user who has been throttled and you would like to continue experiencing the same standard level of service/speed as every other user on ATT's network, you must relinquish your unlimited plan and resign yourself to pay ATT for every single GB downloaded via signing up for one of their tiered plans - this is how they are forcing unlimited data users into ATT's pricier, alternative plans. By the way, these alternative plans are not provided with any guaranteed rate of speed - so ATT could once again (years down the road) make an arbitrary decision to begin also singling out these users and slowing their speeds down to well below a generally acceptable level of speed. Effectively, subscribers are wooed into contracts they are beholden to with the belief that they are receiving a certain level of service at a certain rate - in effect, there is no guarantee and, what you actually receive is up to ATT's discretion via the "fair use" clause. What was the purpose of a contract anyway if the only outcome is that the consumer must pay a fee for breaking it? The throttling of unlimited data users undermines the very nature and original intent of the "unlimited data" plans altogether and it's completely contrary and diametrically opposed to what the consumers had been receiving for years and what the consumers believed they would receive through the life of their unlimited data plans.

 

Make no mistake about it, ATT doesn't care how much data you download and the "data crunch" argument doesn't come into play as long as you are paying ATT for every 2 GB you use. On the tiered plans, you can truly download an unlimited amount of data at the standard speed. However, on an actual "unlimited plan" your speed is now throttled to below standard if you download what they now consider to be "too much." I believe ATT has seen the dollar signs in all the "free" GBs users on their unlimited plans are downloading - like an untapped oil well. They have disguised this very precise business plan by decrying an oncoming "data crunch." This is the oldest trick in the book - a giant corporation distracts onlookers from their real agenda by creating a "crisis." This is nothing but subterfuge meant to help ATT overcome the PR damage resulting from their skirting their obligations while continuing to advertise a 3G and 4G network BUT not allowing certain unlimited data users access to the contemporary data transfer speeds they continue to make available to other unlimited data users.

 

Now, I ask my self: What speed is ATT obligated to provide me as a user currently under a contract that I'm obligated to fulfill and does ATT have the right to change that speed at their sole discretion at any time during the contract? I didn't know, so I asked them. Their customer service couldn't tell me. Conceivably, ATT could sell a top level, expensive data plan BUT provide a consumer the slowest speed possible yet still actively and aggressively advertise having the "fastest 4G or 3G network" (implying that 4G or 3G/fast speeds are the level of speed a subscriber will have access to). I believe ATT should make available to all subscribers the same speed that they advertise and already provide to the majority of their customer base - since plans aren't based on speed - and ATT advertises the speed of their network  in an effort to sign up more customers. ATT believes they have a right to single out certain users and slow their speed based on usage. Where does this end? How much can they slow me? If you believe ATT, then it's up to them. This policy is completely arbitrary and opens itself easily to discrimination. If ATT is allowed to slow data transfer speeds on any customer for any reason based on any twisted interpretation of "fair use" - what reason will they come up with next, what minority could they single out to provide reduced service to next? Can ATT advertise/sell a 2GB package on a 4G Network but only actually provide dial up speed to those clients? Apparently, ATT thinks so.

 

The common sense answer to all this is that ATT is obligated to provide a "standard" speed to all subscribers who subscribe to the exact same plan, across the board. If they advertise 3G and 4G networks and market themselves as one of the fastest networks around, then how can they sign users up under those speeds then arbitrarily decide to quit providing at this level of speed/service mid-contract? Users under the same contract should receive the same level of standard and acceptable service under said contract.

 

ATT is now declaring that when I originally signed up for unlimited data all those years ago, they weren't obligated then or now to provide the data I pay for at any certain speed. I contend that when I signed up for unlimited data, I was never obligated to stay under a certain amount of usage to keep my standard speed, and I'm not obligated to do so now. By singling consumers out because said consumers are taking full advantage of the plan [unlimited data] ATT advertised/sold/recommended and the consumers agreed to become contractually obligated to, while they [ATT] throttle/handicap the data, ATT is imposing a punitive policy on consumers that have done absolutely nothing wrong. I have met my obligation to use and pay for my unlimited data plan for years. ATT is now, mid-contract, resigning it's obligation to provide the same level of service/speed by intentionally altering the speed at which my device can transfer data over ATT's network - while they continue to provide the faster service and superb speed to other subscribers of the exact same unlimited data plan contract using the exact same devices.

 

Furthermore, "unlimited data" was ATT's idea. I didn't call ATT a few years ago and demand they create an unlimited data plan for me. ATT developed, marketed, and sold me on their "unlimited data" plan and also sold me the smart phones I've used to pull that unlimited data all while advertising how fast their network was/is - but there was no warning to consumers like myself that the speed they advertised and currently advertise is contingent upon my limiting how much data I pull on my unlimited data plan. They've set up the game and are playing both sides - there is no possible way for a consumer to realize the full benefit of the unlimited data plan under these circumstances. The way I see it, ATT wooed me into purchasing their data-using smart phones, they aggressively promoted their unlimited data plans to be used with those smart phones, they boasted about the speed of their network and now that they've got me under contract they are reducing the level of service they choose to provide me.

 

 

Let's say I break down and sign up for ATT's tiered plan now at $X amount for 2 MB/month...but next year they slow the speed at which I can draw those 2 MB of data on that plan but assure me that I'm welcome to jump into their $50/2MB plan to regain the speed I lost? Is ATT covered in Crisco??? Where does this end???

 

So ATT saw this data surge coming and decided to capitalize on it - hence the introduction of the tiered plans. Unlimited data - even though they CAN provide it - does not enhance their profits.

I'd also like to introduce another tought:

 

ATT has been very effective in getting non unlimited plan users on their side. You see these customers calling unlimited data users who pull large amounts of data as "data hogs" and they will join ATT in perpetuating the concept of this "data crunch" and how heavy users are causing "network congestion." But the reality is that ATT has provided no proof of network congestion or a data crunch caused by heavy data users. In fact, doesn't it make sense that these "heavy data users" would be the first to experience this so called congestion? If there really was this crisis of congestion, would people really have the ability to pull 30 and 50GB of data on a congested network? It doesn't make sense to me. Also I've been doing a lot of reading over the net and it appears that the top 5% calculation is regional...so some users get throttled at their "regional top 5%" of 2GB, while others (like myself) have been throttled at 5GB. How does this difference from market to market really affect their worldwide network? Also how did ATT arive at throttling just the top 5%? How do they relate usage of the top 5% -whether that be 200 MB or 10GB - to the actual congestion on their network? ATT hasn't divulged to us the details, aka the proof, of this alleged congestion so I can't comment on that aspect. However, in the real world, I can see that I have been able to pull 30GB of data in a month with zero problems - this bears out my contention that there is no congestion otherwise I wouldn't be able to pull that much data unfettered. Indeed, the only problem I have incurred in downloaded that much data (been on unlimited since 2009) has been this December, 2011 when ATT intentionally throttled my data.

 

ATT has been effective in getting many consumers on their side of this issue by claiming they are attempting to keep the network free from congestion so that all users can enjoy downloading data, appealing to a sense of justice for all, while not providing ANY proof whatsoever that heavy users affect their network in any way.

 

2 points to think about:

 

1. If heavy users were clogging the network, wouldn't they be the first to know? Would heavy users even be able to download so much data unfettered if there truly was a serious network congestion issue?

 

2. ATT has a real interest in clipping unlimited data users and getting them on to tiered data plans...aka an agenda. Given this fact, why are so many people readily believing ATT's claim of a "data crunch" or "netowrk congestion" without them having to substantiate ANY of those claims? They have an agenda and they manufactured a "crisis" to back up their recent policies BUT they've been asked to prove nothing...

 

---

LKL198025 wrote:

I'd also like to introduce another tought:

 

ATT has been very effective in getting non unlimited plan users on their side. You see these customers calling unlimited data users who pull large amounts of data as "data hogs" and they will join ATT in perpetuating the concept of this "data crunch" and how heavy users are causing "network congestion." But the reality is that ATT has provided no proof of network congestion or a data crunch caused by heavy data users. In fact, doesn't it make sense that these "heavy data users" would be the first to experience this so called congestion? If there really was this crisis of congestion, would people really have the ability to pull 30 and 50GB of data on a congested network? It doesn't make sense to me. Also I've been doing a lot of reading over the net and it appears that the top 5% calculation is regional...so some users get throttled at their "regional top 5%" of 2GB, while others (like myself) have been throttled at 5GB. How does this difference from market to market really affect their worldwide network? Also how did ATT arive at throttling just the top 5%? How do they relate usage of the top 5% -whether that be 200 MB or 10GB - to the actual congestion on their network? ATT hasn't divulged to us the details, aka the proof, of this alleged congestion so I can't comment on that aspect. However, in the real world, I can see that I have been able to pull 30GB of data in a month with zero problems - this bears out my contention that there is no congestion otherwise I wouldn't be able to pull that much data unfettered. Indeed, the only problem I have incurred in downloaded that much data (been on unlimited since 2009) has been this December, 2011 when ATT intentionally throttled my data.

 

ATT has been effective in getting many consumers on their side of this issue by claiming they are attempting to keep the network free from congestion so that all users can enjoy downloading data, appealing to a sense of justice for all, while not providing ANY proof whatsoever that heavy users affect their network in any way.

 

2 points to think about:

 

1. If heavy users were clogging the network, wouldn't they be the first to know? Would heavy users even be able to download so much data unfettered if there truly was a serious network congestion issue?

 

2. ATT has a real interest in clipping unlimited data users and getting them on to tiered data plans...aka an agenda. Given this fact, why are so many people readily believing ATT's claim of a "data crunch" or "netowrk congestion" without them having to substantiate ANY of those claims? They have an agenda and they manufactured a "crisis" to back up their recent policies BUT they've been asked to prove nothing...

 

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on point 2, they really don;t need to throttle to get people off a grandfathered plan, they just need to sunset it with a requirement modification - just like they did the no data plan required for a smartphone agreement, they tied it to the devie, upgrade teh device the outdated and grandfather plan is no longer applicable, it a maximum of 2 years after the change is made the number of unlimited plans will be next to none.

 

You need to realize the can be a congestion issue, when the unlimited data plan was concieved there was the Palm OS, blackberies and smbios smartphones that mainly did minor browsing and email, now the apps are 1 million fold greater and use more bandwidth. The only mistake that att did was when they grandfathered the unlimited plan they did not sunset it at the same time.

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wingrider01 wrote:

 

on point 2, they really don;t need to throttle to get people off a grandfathered plan, they just need to sunset it with a requirement modification - just like they did the no data plan required for a smartphone agreement, they tied it to the devie, upgrade teh device the outdated and grandfather plan is no longer applicable, it a maximum of 2 years after the change is made the number of unlimited plans will be next to none.

 

You need to realize the can be a congestion issue, when the unlimited data plan was concieved there was the Palm OS, blackberies and smbios smartphones that mainly did minor browsing and email, now the apps are 1 million fold greater and use more bandwidth. The only mistake that att did was when they grandfathered the unlimited plan they did not sunset it at the same time.

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Then AT&T needs to explain the following issues:

 

1.  Why is the cause of data congestion supposedly ONLY the 'unlimited' user?  Some how the tier 2 and tier 3 customers aren't the cause of this congestion.

 

That of course is a lie.  AT&T is lying to all of us.  If there is a 'congestion' problem it's all HEAVY users, regardless of how much they pay, yet AT&T has decided to descriminate against the 'unlimited' users only.

 

2.  Originally there was ONLY the 'unlimited' data plan option.  Only later, AT&T claimed that a majority of us customers requested tiered data plans, (another obvious lie) and AT&T supposedly found that the majority of its users only used between 200mb and 2gb of data per month (offering no proof).

 

3.  AT&T is very obviously pushing their tiered plans.  Sure they could 'sunset' the plan, and soon they probably will, in the mean time however, how are we to deal with AT&T's tiered plans when AT&T admits their data billing is based on estimated usage, and all third party testing shows that AT&T regularly over estimates usage by as much as 20%?

 

The tiered plans, in an estimated billing world are a license to steal.  Again, once your actual usage hits 1.8gb, you're more than probably going to be billed for the next 1gb, whether or not you actually use the full 2gb of your initial allotment.

 

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of threads on this forum (not to mention all the others) where people, being responsible with their money, reviewed their statements and never found any statement close to, or going over a 200mb or 2gb threshhold, after having switched to one of the tiered plans found that all of the sudden, without proof, or explanation from AT&T found their bills showing estimated usage much higher than before, to the point of their having to pay for extra segments of data.  As you know those poor users were "[Sorry] Outta Luck"  because they were not allowed by AT&T to switch back to their 'unlimited' plans to get to a stable/KNOWN monthly cost on data.

 

No thank you fan boys, no thank you AT&T.  Until you can accurately report ACTUAL usage I will not volunteer to go to a tiered plan.  If I am ever throttled, I'll leave and since I live in the same city as your home offices, I'll be sure and visit and express my displeasure in person.

 

AT&T, you shoud realize, the world is changing for big business.  The consumer is using the internet and social media to show its displeasure in the unfair practices that big business has been trying to force on to the consumer, ala Bank of America and Verizon.  Heck even "small" business can't get away with it, recent example being Ocean Marketing.

 

The fact is you're [AT&T] wandering into some pretty dangerous territory, you may want to consider backing off on this because you're about to trip a PR land mine.

I was on the side of AT&T on this one until I read the well written post above. I would love to hear a rebuttal to the points listed because quite frankly, there has been no proof provided by AT&T of the crisis that heavy data usage creates. It seems to me the only crisis is that AT&T is losing their posterior to those users that download enormous amounts of data for the contractually stipulated $30 and now they are doing everything that they can, within their legal rights, to clean up this mess.

If there's truly a congestion problem, all users would lose speed. Which of course is exactly what happens. We've all had slowdowns at certain times.

 

The voice network has intermittent congestion. Today was an example. I had three dropped calls in my home. People are calling and wishing their friends and family happy new year, I suppose. It doesn't matter whether I'm within my plan minutes or over (and paying a premium).  If the network can't bear the traffic, my calls drop.  I'd love to see them send a text saying I've used too many voice minutes and now my call quality is going to drop. They won't shut off my service, but it wiil be harder to hear. 

 

There are times when more people are using data and I can't get pages to load. Then it eases up. Heavy users aren't doing any more to exacerbate the problem. It's the number of users at one time. Those on limited plans who are paying for overages experience the same slowdowns.  (I might add they can technically be charged $10 for one bit over 2GB. Nice racket there. With texting, you pay per text over. You're not charged for 1000 more. )

 

I don't see AT&T turning away any new subscribers because they can't handle the traffic. They are actually giving away 3G smartphones to sign up as many data users as possible. That will put a greater strain on the network.

 

Until they refuse to sell more data to people on tethering plans or tiered plans, I'm not buying that there's anything here but an attempt to pile on charges. As VZW and BofA found, consumers are getting to the end of their tolerance. Companies that have ongoing relationships with customers need to learn to create a sense of value for cost. I have to point to Apple, which does not nickel and dime their customers. People fall over each other happily trying to give Apple money and they don't begrudge it. Apple is highly profitable, rarely aiming for short-term gains. (The worst thing they did was a "priority" service program, which I think've now dropped.) They want people to keep buying more goods and services and talk about their positive experience. If the suits at AT&T (and others) would stop treating customers like cows to be milked, they might be pleasantly surprised. 

 

I agree with the above posts. I was going to give in and change to the $25 plan, but since there's truly no way to verify my usage, I'm skeptical of AT&T's billing.  I'd rather pay the extra $5/month not to get any big surprises.  In four years as an unlimited iPhone user, I've never used more than 2GB, but I'm afraid I would suddenly find I'm in that territory with no recourse except to move to Sprint  when my contract is up (and I'd truly rather not). 

 

 

 

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DimentoGraven wrote:

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wingrider01 wrote:

 

on point 2, they really don;t need to throttle to get people off a grandfathered plan, they just need to sunset it with a requirement modification - just like they did the no data plan required for a smartphone agreement, they tied it to the devie, upgrade teh device the outdated and grandfather plan is no longer applicable, it a maximum of 2 years after the change is made the number of unlimited plans will be next to none.

 

You need to realize the can be a congestion issue, when the unlimited data plan was concieved there was the Palm OS, blackberies and smbios smartphones that mainly did minor browsing and email, now the apps are 1 million fold greater and use more bandwidth. The only mistake that att did was when they grandfathered the unlimited plan they did not sunset it at the same time.

---

Then AT&T needs to explain the following issues:

 

1.  Why is the cause of data congestion supposedly ONLY the 'unlimited' user?  Some how the tier 2 and tier 3 customers aren't the cause of this congestion.

 

That of course is a lie.  AT&T is lying to all of us.  If there is a 'congestion' problem it's all HEAVY users, regardless of how much they pay, yet AT&T has decided to descriminate against the 'unlimited' users only.

 

2.  Originally there was ONLY the 'unlimited' data plan option.  Only later, AT&T claimed that a majority of us customers requested tiered data plans, (another obvious lie) and AT&T supposedly found that the majority of its users only used between 200mb and 2gb of data per month (offering no proof).

 

3.  AT&T is very obviously pushing their tiered plans.  Sure they could 'sunset' the plan, and soon they probably will, in the mean time however, how are we to deal with AT&T's tiered plans when AT&T admits their data billing is based on estimated usage, and all third party testing shows that AT&T regularly over estimates usage by as much as 20%?

 

The tiered plans, in an estimated billing world are a license to steal.  Again, once your actual usage hits 1.8gb, you're more than probably going to be billed for the next 1gb, whether or not you actually use the full 2gb of your initial allotment.

 

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of threads on this forum (not to mention all the others) where people, being responsible with their money, reviewed their statements and never found any statement close to, or going over a 200mb or 2gb threshhold, after having switched to one of the tiered plans found that all of the sudden, without proof, or explanation from AT&T found their bills showing estimated usage much higher than before, to the point of their having to pay for extra segments of data.  As you know those poor users were "[Sorry] Outta Luck"  because they were not allowed by AT&T to switch back to their 'unlimited' plans to get to a stable/KNOWN monthly cost on data.

 

No thank you fan boys, no thank you AT&T.  Until you can accurately report ACTUAL usage I will not volunteer to go to a tiered plan.  If I am ever throttled, I'll leave and since I live in the same city as your home offices, I'll be sure and visit and express my displeasure in person.

 

AT&T, you shoud realize, the world is changing for big business.  The consumer is using the internet and social media to show its displeasure in the unfair practices that big business has been trying to force on to the consumer, ala Bank of America and Verizon.  Heck even "small" business can't get away with it, recent example being Ocean Marketing.

 

The fact is you're [AT&T] wandering into some pretty dangerous territory, you may want to consider backing off on this because you're about to trip a PR land mine.

---

1. becasue tiered users tend to be either self-throttling or bill-payer-throttled - if you get a wirelss bill for say 80.00 higher then you excepted and it turned out that eithe you or tommy / sally used 8GB more of tiered data 10.00 per gb * 8gb over) would not moderate your usage or tommy / sally's usage to prevent having to repeat the overage charges. Tiered user self-regulate becasue of the added cost per gb if they go over their plan size, that is why  their aer not forced regulated, unlike grandfathered unlimited users that up till october had no regualtion at all, there where people bragging that they used "13-20GB" a month on the net. Although this is a moot argument point if you have enoguh disposable income to cover any overage for any phone on your account that is on a tiered data plan.

 

2. Funny all I ever saw was "30.00 is to much to pay for data, give us cheaper options", never say anyone post "I want a tiered data plan, can you point out some posts where posters specificly asked for "tiered data plans"? Users wanted cheaper, they got what they asked for, just not in the way they asumed it would be

 

3. Yes att is pushing tiered data plan, but then again so is verizon so your point is exactly what? As far as data usage goes, have no way to prove or disprove anything, so it is a opinion statement, that is unless you have some validated method proving or dispoving the statements, even the OLAM report has a dsiclaimer on it that the reported data may not be accurate becasue of a time delay in posting the information to the website, without knowing the details or coding of their monitoring system would highly suspct that the messages being sent out are real time and the OLAM is not.  It is your opinion that tiered data plans are a "license to steal", unless you have validated proof of the accusation it will stay an opinion. Doubt you would believe me, but monitor data fairly tightly and see a very minor difference in what the 3rd phone app records and what the actually billing numbers are at the end of the month when I get my statement.

 

No it is not a PR land mine, only in your opinion. If you do the research the only one of the top 3 providers out there that still offer unlimited data is Sprint, and it has beenr eported that they are considering dropping unlimited also. Again if you research you will aslo see that verizon is not "data managing" high user in areas, while at the moment they are not doing it to lte users, the clause IS in the agreement that they reserve the right to "data manage" them also. So where exactly is the "PR land mine"? The only mistake that att did in this is they grandfathered the plan instead of sunsetting it.

 

Again sorry to disappoint you, as I have mentioend before I am not a "att fanboi" (or is it fanboy - by the way what is the term if the poster is female? Is it still the same?) I have had my disagreements with every single form of ATT over the years going back to when all POTS lines where party lines and you counted the number of consecutive rings to determine if the call was for you. I am, how evey a major supporter of business contracts and businesses in general.

 

 

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Myrtlemaye wrote:

If there's truly a congestion problem, all users would lose speed. Which of course is exactly what happens. We've all had slowdowns at certain times.

 

The voice network has intermittent congestion. Today was an example. I had three dropped calls in my home. People are calling and wishing their friends and family happy new year, I suppose. It doesn't matter whether I'm within my plan minutes or over (and paying a premium).  If the network can't bear the traffic, my calls drop.  I'd love to see them send a text saying I've used too many voice minutes and now my call quality is going to drop. They won't shut off my service, but it wiil be harder to hear. 

 

There are times when more people are using data and I can't get pages to load. Then it eases up. Heavy users aren't doing any more to exacerbate the problem. It's the number of users at one time. Those on limited plans who are paying for overages experience the same slowdowns.  (I might add they can technically be charged $10 for one bit over 2GB. Nice racket there. With texting, you pay per text over. You're not charged for 1000 more. )

 

I don't see AT&T turning away any new subscribers because they can't handle the traffic. They are actually giving away 3G smartphones to sign up as many data users as possible. That will put a greater strain on the network.

 

Until they refuse to sell more data to people on tethering plans or tiered plans, I'm not buying that there's anything here but an attempt to pile on charges. As VZW and BofA found, consumers are getting to the end of their tolerance. Companies that have ongoing relationships with customers need to learn to create a sense of value for cost. I have to point to Apple, which does not nickel and dime their customers. People fall over each other happily trying to give Apple money and they don't begrudge it. Apple is highly profitable, rarely aiming for short-term gains. (The worst thing they did was a "priority" service program, which I think've now dropped.) They want people to keep buying more goods and services and talk about their positive experience. If the suits at AT&T (and others) would stop treating customers like cows to be milked, they might be pleasantly surprised. 

 

I agree with the above posts. I was going to give in and change to the $25 plan, but since there's truly no way to verify my usage, I'm skeptical of AT&T's billing.  I'd rather pay the extra $5/month not to get any big surprises.  In four years as an unlimited iPhone user, I've never used more than 2GB, but I'm afraid I would suddenly find I'm in that territory with no recourse except to move to Sprint  when my contract is up (and I'd truly rather not). 

 

 

 

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not sur why you assume that "dropping a call" is a sign of voice congestion, that is a signal strebgth issue., Cellular service strenght is depending on the environment, soloar flares, terrain, buildings, where you are making the call from - yourr house, a office building, etc. Have a section of road there that is a vertual dead spot for cell service, if you are on the phone when you enter the area the call drops - no matter who's service you are on, Personally cannot get ANY service in the basement of my house, minimal service at the back of the house and perfect service at the fron of my house, has nothing to do with "voice congestion"

 

have been walking down the street in New York on a conversation, turned the corner and went into the shadow of the buildings and dropped the call on the verizon phone, been in miami on the sprint phone and has the same thing happen, won;t even try anything but att in boulder co.

 

None of that has to do with "voice congestion" it is signal strength and quality.

I don't believe you have your facts straight. I upgraded recently while on the grandfathered unlimited data plan and have been told multiple times that upgrading my device would never change my data plan. They are two separate issues.

 

Futhermore, the "unlimited data" plan was conceived for the iphones and it was when I purchased my first iphone that AT&T recommended I get under their unlimited data plan - so that I wouldn't have to worry about usage and overage. Funny how I believed AT&T like so many other customers.

 

AT&T has been providing unlimited data to users under the unlimited data plan, proving that this is possible. If anyone was going to experience network congestion, wouldn't it be the heavy users who are pulling 30GB a month? I've never heard of any iphone user I know having any problems using data - until AT&T began throttling them.

 

I'm a reasonable person and if AT&T is going to reneg on the term "unlimited" and provide me a reduced service, a service far below what they have been providing me for years, then I want to see the proof of their plight. Show me this alleged "network congestion" I say.

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LKL198025 wrote:

I don't believe you have your facts straight. I upgraded recently while on the grandfathered unlimited data plan and have been told multiple times that upgrading my device would never change my data plan. They are two separate issues.

 

Futhermore, the "unlimited data" plan was conceived for the iphones and it was when I purchased my first iphone that AT&T recommended I get under their unlimited data plan - so that I wouldn't have to worry about usage and overage. Funny how I believed AT&T like so many other customers.

 

AT&T has been providing unlimited data to users under the unlimited data plan, proving that this is possible. If anyone was going to experience network congestion, wouldn't it be the heavy users who are pulling 30GB a month? I've never heard of any iphone user I know having any problems using data - until AT&T began throttling them.

 

I'm a reasonable person and if AT&T is going to reneg on the term "unlimited" and provide me a reduced service, a service far below what they have been providing me for years, then I want to see the proof of their plight. Show me this alleged "network congestion" I say.

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the did not change you unlimited plan, you still get unlimited data jsut not at the speeds you agree with - this is the fup which has been around sicne the Balckberry phones where being sold

 

contrary to what you think you believe, the unlimited plan was around long before the iphone hit the engineers design table,  blackberries and wm5 based smartphones where avaialable from cingular with unlimited data.

I pay to much money for my plan, and it's not my fault that I have the "privilege" of having been grandfathered my "unlimited" data plan! Now, I don't even spend 2.5 GB of broadband at month and AT&T already slowed down my speed because I'm in their 5% Top User category! That's unfair! There's gotta be a way to fix this without punishing the people like me that spend an average of $2,000 a year in phone service!

 

[Inappropriate content removed]

 

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josgrevar wrote:

I pay to much money for my plan, and it's not my fault that I have the "privilege" of having been grandfathered my "unlimited" data plan! Now, I don't even spend 2.5 GB of broadband at month and AT&T already slowed down my speed because I'm in their 5% Top User category! That's unfair! There's gotta be a way to fix this without punishing the people like me that spend an average of $2,000 a year in phone service!

 

[Inappropriate content removed]

 

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If you use an average of 2.5GB/month, you will pay EXACTLY the same on the metered plan as you do on the unlimited plan, with no throttling. Switch to the metered plan. Problem solved.

 

FYI everyone pays the same average price for iPhone cell service on AT&T, that isn't an argument.

I have one of the old 'grandfathered in' unlimited data plans---but apparently AT&T has decided to change the definition of unlimited.  Now-If I use my phone, they shut the speed down so slow that it doesn't work.  Takes 2 mintues to even open an e-mail & Netflix is impossible.  A C-S supervisor was supposed to call me at 10:30 this a.m.-yes, it was scheduled, but no one called.  So I took the phone into the local AT&T store & they tried my phone out & watched movies & texts crash--but apparently they can't do anything.  I think AT&T is trying to force those with unlimited data plans off the plans because then they can't sign back up.  They don't care that the phone doesn't work even though I'm paying the extra monthly fees for the data plan.

 

[Per Guidelines: Keep it Relevant and Appropriate]

posted to Facebook before AT&T decides to remove the post. Please respond here if others are involved in these data scams.

Ponder this thought for a moment--hypothetically speaking, a tiered user is allowed to use as much data as what an unlimited user can use; i.e., a tiered user has access to unlimited data just as much as the unlimited plan user--the only difference is that the tiered user will be expected to pay for the overage.  My point?  Let's say the unlimited user gets throttled after using 2.5 GB--i.e., anything over 2.5 GB was deemed by AT&T to be "excessive" and thus open to being throttled; now let's bring in the tiered 2 GB user--he decides that he needs another 1-2 GB (after all, it's not as if AT&T turns off the data faucet once a 2 GB tiered plan user hits the 2 GB mark), which would put him over the 2.5 GB mark...meaning, he'd be using just as much data as the >2.5 GB unlimited user.  Will the tiered user who has now used more than 2.5 GB get throttled?  You would think he should since after all, he's used just as much data as the 2.5 GB unlimited user and the unlimited user got throttled because his usage over 2.5 GB was deemed "excessive"...but we all know that the tiered person won't get throttled at all--thus my conclusion that AT&T is throttling unlimited users not because they primarily want to reduce congestion; anyone who still believes that they're doing so because of that has clearly been drinking too much of the AT&T koolaid...

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tonester wrote:

Ponder this thought for a moment--hypothetically speaking, a tiered user is allowed to use as much data as what an unlimited user can use; i.e., a tiered user has access to unlimited data just as much as the unlimited plan user--the only difference is that the tiered user will be expected to pay for the overage.  My point?  Let's say the unlimited user gets throttled after using 2.5 GB--i.e., anything over 2.5 GB was deemed by AT&T to be "excessive" and thus open to being throttled; now let's bring in the tiered 2 GB user--he decides that he needs another 1-2 GB (after all, it's not as if AT&T turns off the data faucet once a 2 GB tiered plan user hits the 2 GB mark), which would put him over the 2.5 GB mark...meaning, he'd be using just as much data as the >2.5 GB unlimited user.  Will the tiered user who has now used more than 2.5 GB get throttled?  You would think he should since after all, he's used just as much data as the 2.5 GB unlimited user and the unlimited user got throttled because his usage over 2.5 GB was deemed "excessive"...but we all know that the tiered person won't get throttled at all--thus my conclusion that AT&T is throttling unlimited users not because they primarily want to reduce congestion; anyone who still believes that they're doing so because of that has clearly been drinking too much of the AT&T koolaid...

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come back with the unlimited user starts getting charged 10.00 per GB over the 2GB throttle limit then you would be in the ball park.

 

The bill payer will be the next months throttle control, they will get tired of paying the extra bill for the excessive data usage on the smartphone -  try to uderstand that the tiered user pays for each and every data usage after they reach the limit of their plan, the grandfathered unlimited user prior to throttling just kept slurping it down with no reprecussion. Unlimited data user slurps down 6GB, cost them 30.00, tier 2Gb user uses the same, cost them 65.00. Next billing cycle the unlimited user slurps down the same 6GB, the tiered user restrains themselve becuse the extra 40.00 on the phone bill made them short or got the people that pick up the bill mad, so they stay under 2GB - now who really needs the involuntary retriction - the unlimited user who can continue to slurp down 6GB with no reprecussions prior to throttling or the tiered user that the check book is the restraint.

 

Come to the realization that tiered users are not the problem here, they tend to moderate what they slurp down becasue of the overage costs, prior to october the unlimited users really did not pay attention to what they slurped down until the FUP was enforced. This is the simple fact.

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wingrider01 wrote:

 

come back with the unlimited user starts getting charged 10.00 per GB over the 2GB throttle limit then you would be in the ball park.

 

The bill payer will be the next months throttle control, they will get tired of paying the extra bill for the excessive data usage on the smartphone -  try to uderstand that the tiered user pays for each and every data usage after they reach the limit of their plan, the grandfathered unlimited user prior to throttling just kept slurping it down with no reprecussion. Unlimited data user slurps down 6GB, cost them 30.00, tier 2Gb user uses the same, cost them 65.00. Next billing cycle the unlimited user slurps down the same 6GB, the tiered user restrains themselve becuse the extra 40.00 on the phone bill made them short or got the people that pick up the bill mad, so they stay under 2GB - now who really needs the involuntary retriction - the unlimited user who can continue to slurp down 6GB with no reprecussions prior to throttling or the tiered user that the check book is the restraint.

 

Come to the realization that tiered users are not the problem here, they tend to moderate what they slurp down becasue of the overage costs, prior to october the unlimited users really did not pay attention to what they slurped down until the FUP was enforced. This is the simple fact.

---

I'm following your argument. I have missed a few pages, so I'm wondering where the proof is that the extra data being downloaded by unlimited users is causing a network congestion problem. If the numbers are published somewhere, someone please link them. If there are no numbers showing proof of network congestion based solely on the amount of data being downloaded, then how can anyone argue that throttling is to reduce network congestion?

 

In addition, you are assuming that people are not willing to pay for overages. If speed really means that much to a user, especially a business user, they will be willing to pay the overages each month for the extra data.

I have talked to 4 different 'customer service' reps in the AT&T data usage unit re: "throttling" my service to unusable speeds.  I told them all I was in the Atlanta area and asked for the address to file a grievance- every one of them gave me a different address, none would let me speak with a supervisor.

 

Here's 3 useful links to do something about this mess.  I've filed all complaints with all three.

 

Here is the link to file an FTC complaint:  http://transition.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/Form2000B.pdf

Here is the link to find your Attorney General to file a complaint:  http://www.naag.org/

File a BBB complaint here:  https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started

 

 

(research done from my work computer-where I had to return because the internet on my Iphone doesn't work now.)

The high usage unlimited user isn't using 2.5GB, hs's using 10-20-30GB watching netflix over 3G. The metered user would be paying $200-$300 to watch reruns of Law & Order via Netflix on his phone, so he's far less likely to decide this is a critical use of cellular data. Instead he will do everything he wishes to do, except stream hours of HD netflix over 3g (he might do that over wifi, because he has broadband at home, work, starbux, etc) He will surf. He will email. He will facebook, uploading images and even short video clips. Once in a blue moon, he may go over 2GB in a month, incurring an extra $10 charge. If he did that 6 times a year, he'd pay exactly the same as the "unlimited" user.

 

So perhaps you can see how the unlimited user, paying $5 more a month, could consume 20-30 times as much data, causing congestion at the tower (where bandwidth is indeed a shared, and limited resource) without any corresponding "pain" to the user, so why not just use that data? True, the metered user could also decide it is critical to watch law & order at $10 per episode in data charges, but probably after a few months of that his parents/company/spouse/whomever will take away the phone. Or, they can afford it, so why not live it up.

 

This seems pretty simple to understand.

 

 

just registered because of this. i received a text from at&t at 1.6mb! im grandfathered into the "unlimited plan" its frusrtrating because my iphone becomes pretty much useless. Stop selling smartphones if you cant handle providing the service!!!! Like most people I'm not surrounded by wi-fi at all times so when i need or want to use my iphone i should b able to since im paying for the service. When i spoke to a rep about the top 5% group i was a part of she couldnt answer me when i asked if the group consisted of everyone in the U.S or my state, city or what. And what else is garbage is that there will always be a 5% no matter what the magic number is. Man I am so upset, what i typed might not even make sense!

no,  johninjs--it'snot that simple.  You forgot the simple fact that AT&T sold these unlimited data plans and they are not honoring them.  It a tough argument to sell to say that the data towers are overwhelmed when AT&T is flooding the market begging people to buy even more 4G phones -for their internet use.  I heard the ads all day and night while I was holding for someone from customer service to pick up.  They also can't argue that 'throttling back' is an effective--or even legal-- solution when it amounts to nothing more than continuing to bill the unlimited user customer for service that AT&T has rendered completely worthless, i.e. AT&T is stealing. I urge folks in this situation to file FTC & BBB complaints.

They sold these plans for Edge thru iPhone 3GS. None of which could stream video worth crap, even if there was video to stream. Meaning "unlimited" was "way less than 2GB".

 

So, no, I totally understand what happened. And I totally expect this grandfathered plan to not be supported on any iPhone after the 4S (which, of course, is perfectly legal for AT&T to do.)

 

The unlimited plan is never cut off - that means it is unlimited. It may be unbearably slow, but there is no limit to the number of bits you can slowly pull out of the pipe.

 

Complain away, best of luck, let me know how it works out for you. I would like to understand the argument that an unlimited trickle of bits isn't unlimited.

 

{keep it courteous}

 

We 'unlimited' plan customers pay EXTRA so that we do not HAVE to throttle our data.  We pay EXTRA every month, whether we use 200kb or 200TB, we've made a decision that it's worth it to pay the extra money every month for 'unlimited' data, especially since AT&T can't bill 'actual' but bills on 'estimated' data usage.

 

Where as you tiered users made a conscious decision, based of your usage history to pay LESS every month, because you were making a contract with AT&T that stated you would NOT use more than 2gb per month, but IF you happen to, you were willing to be automatically billed for each segment over 2gb.  Since going to the 2gb tiered plan, you have not had to pay as much as we have, unless you went over your initial 2gb allotment.

 

The service I paid for, and have used historically, until recently when AT&T decided to be so 'data bigoted' was that I would have 'unlimited' data at best available speeds.

 

You can deflect all you want about 'unlimited data at a trickle throughput rate', or 'all the other carriers do it', but frankly that doesn't wash.

 

Being arrogantly ignorant and stating that the 'unlimited plan is never cut off' is just as bad, as neither are any of the tiered plans, so I don't see why you seem to indicate that never being 'cut off' is some sort of benefit to this plan.

 

Y'know what, the more I think about it, the more I know I don't even want to pay for data at all.  What I remember most commonly being asked for was a wifi only option, where cellular data wasn't even turned on.  THAT was probably the most requested modification to the plan.

 

If I can't have ACTUAL unlimited at best available rates, then I don't want to pay for ANY data, period.

 

The phones themselves DO NOT actually require cellular data to funciton, regardless of any lies or intentional mistatements from customer service or anyone else.

 

I'd be happy to use wifi hot spots so long as I knew that at the end of each month what my bill was actually going to be.

 

AT&T WILL STEAL FROM YOU on the tiered plans.  If you're lucky enough to not have had it happen to you yet, great, BUT, it's only a matter of time. 

 

After all, if you ask AT&T to actually provide PROOF of your ACTUAL data usage, they will refuse to.  You'll be told that either:  A:  They can't, or B:  They don't have to.

 

And if that isn't a situation RIPE for abusing customer's trust and/or ignorance, I don't know what is.