Regarding Upgradation/Smartphones/Iphone/Data Plans

[dracs]

Hi,


I have quite a few doubts/idea so thought of clearing my head by getting some expert advice.If I am in any way violating terms and conditions of att, please let me know. Hopefully, I won't be making things too complicated. Though I think the boundaries of question overlap.

Background , we have 4 lines on this family plan.3 accounts contracts are over.1 had iphone 3G( over), 1 att tilt( over ), 1 basic phone ( over ), 1 nokia mural (  just started 5 months back )

Question 1: Is the data plan attached to phone, sim or account?

Question 2: Can somebody who contract is over use this Iphone 3G intermittenly and pay for data plan ( if imposed )only for the months used. Rest of the time person will only use regular non smart phone or this tilt.

Question 3: Can a person with this tilt( contract over ) activate/deactivate data plan month to month basis now?

Question 4: If a person gets new iphone , can a person gift it to somebody else and can simply use another non smart phone. Will data plan go with the iphone or now both the person will have to pay for data plans?

Question 5: Related to question 4 would be can a person get a smartphone ( with contract ) with no data plan( I think account still allows to keep existing plan, though ATT reserved right to attach anytime data plan ) but still continues to use regular phone and use smartphone ( with data plan activated/ deactivated over some period ). Though I doubt this is possible!! since I think it involved recouping lost revenue by Att on subsidized phone with data plan but will still ask.

Thanks,
Dracs

[mystery45]

i will do the best that i can here.

1.  the data plan is attached to the phone depending on what phone you have.  if it is a smart phone then it will have a data plan attachted.

2.  No if you activate the iphone you pay the data plan whether you use it or not.

3.  no data plans are tied to the phone if you use the tilt the iphone or have them active the data plan will apply you can't just switch them on and off again.

4.  If you buy a new iphone as a gift it will get activated under whoever activates it.  that person will pay for the data plan.  data plans are only put on when the phone is active under your account.

5.  If you get a smart phone you have to get a data plan it is automatically added onto your billing.  the difference now is that you can pick either 15 or 25 dollar a month data plans.  depending on what you do.  the unlimited option is gone.

[ormom51]

If you use a smartphone, you must have a data plan.  AT&T checks from time to time and will add a data plan when smartphone use is detected.  Your iPhone and Tilt now have unlimited data plans and if you upgrade either of those lines with any type of smartphone,  you can keep the unlimited plan.  Or, you could choose to pay a little less and go to one of the new limited plans-$15 for 200mb or $25 for 2gb.  If you choose to switch to one of the limited plans, you cannot go back to unlimited. 

[dracs]

Thanks for your replies people,


Couple of clarifications and more doubts.


THe Tilt I have is unlocked right now and has no data plan and 2 year contract on it is over and ATT doesn't reserve the right to activate data plan on it for these two reasons ( bought 2 years back and contract over ).


1) So question becomes, can't I activate/ deactivate data plan on this tilt on monthly basis like regular phone service people take from att on monthly basis? Please see that same sim will be used on it


2) Now Regarding Iphone 3G, since its contract is also over , so if a person upgrades to new IPHONE4G then how this upgradation will work? Please see same sim used in this case too

 Data plan moved to new Iphone4G and old IPHONE3G Deactivated? or Old Iphone3G remain activated, since it was activated 2 years ago and will be free  to be used by anybody?


 Case 1: If person without contract uses , will data plan be enforced on this IPHONE 3G ?

 Case 2: If person under Att contract uses, will data plan be enforced on this IPhone 3G? ( I think they have right to enforce in this case.

3) Case 1: Can a person who gets Upgraded to new IPhone 4G sell his old Iphone to somebody else? Will the first person be responsible for 2 data plans? or 1  or  first person have to pay for 2 data plans and Att can force buyer also to pay for data plan?
   Case 2: Can a person just buy Iphone 4G with contract and sell it? So does he pay for 1 data plan  or who so ever's sim is the iphone 4G , data plan gets activated on that sim.

4) Related questions would be ,What if person buys a IPHONE 4G from outside at full price and wants to use it with Att without contract without data plan or with data plan on monthly to monthly basis? Possible?


5) What if a person gets IPHONE 4G with contract and sticks it in a drawer after activating it and use basic phone? Will data plan be still active even though iphone doesn't have any sim?


Sorry for making things complicated , just trying to clear the fog and sort out best options.

[ormom51 · Accepted solution]

#1--As long as you keep the Tilt, you can avoid adding the data plan.  If you  upgrade the Tilt to any smartphone, then AT&T will add a data plan, either for $15 or $25-the unlimited $30 plan is no longer available.  If you take the sim out of the Tilt and use it in a non-smartphone, then when you put it back in the Tilt, a data plan will be added.  (Providing AT&T notices.)  The no-data option is good only as long as you continuously use that Tilt.

#2--If you upgrade to a new iPhone, you will receive a new micro sim card.  The new iPhone 4 has a micro sim not a regular one.  You can keep the unlimited data plan if you wish.  Or, you could switch to one of the new limited plans-but if you switch you can never go back to unlimited.  The old iPhone 3 will no longer work if you upgrade because the sim card in it will be deactivated.  Anyone can use your old iPhone 3-it is still perfectly good-by putting in a new sim or their own sim, but they will need to add a data plan for $15 or $25. 

Cases 1 & 2:  Any use of any iPhone on AT&T's network WILL require a data plan, so yes, it will be forced onto the user.  It will not matter if the person is on contract.  AT&T will detect the use of the phone and add the data plan.

#3--You can sell or give away the old phone and it will be up to the new user to pay for all related charges.

Case 2--Yes, I think you can buy the phone and sell it.  As long as an iPhone of any kind is on YOUR plan, you pay for the data.  If you lose the phone, break it, or remove the phone from use, then you can remove the data plan.

#4--Not possible.  Any iPhone use on AT&T's network requires a data plan.

#5--See #3.  As far as I know, if you remove the phone from use, you can remove the data plan.  But you cannot put the micro sim from the iPhone 4 into another phone and use it.  If the iPhone sits in a drawer, you still have to pay the monthly contract charges.

Hope all of this helps.  And that I am right on all counts.  If not, someone will come along and correct me.  But basically, if you use an iPhone with AT&T you will pay data charges.

[dracs]

Thanks a lot ormom.

I think, I have my doubts cleared. Micro sim tip was very useful. Basically no body except the person who upgraded can use this Iphone 4g.

Though, people have talked about cutting mini sim and making them micro sims with nail clippers.

Again appreciate everybody's time and effort. Hopefully , shouldn't have any more cluds of doubt in my mind.

Dracs.

[dracs]

Hey , missed clarification about this part

" If you take the sim out of the Tilt and use it in a non-smartphone, then when you put it back in the Tilt, a data plan will be added.  (Providing AT&T notices.)  The no-data option is good only as long as you continuously use that Tilt. "

I don't think , ATT can add data plan in any way even when I use my sim in other phone and put back in tilt.

I got my phone in 2008 and I don't fall under the new regulations which bound any smartphone to have data plan ( effectively sept 2009 ).

Correct me if I am wrong.

Also that leaves my question unanswered about whether I can add/remove data plan on this tilt which is not bounded by new rules and regulations.

Thanks.

[ormom51]

AT&T will let you keep no data on the Tilt as long as you have and use that phone.  They grandfathered everyone who did not have a data plan on a smartphone when the forced data plans when into effect last September.  But when those phones are eventually upgraded, the data plans will be required if another smartphone is the chosen upgrade.  

If you stop using the Tilt and put that sim card into another phone, AT&T may detect that.  If they do, then when you try and go back to the Tilt, they will add the data plan when they realize you have gone back to using it.  This has happened to others who have posted on this forum.  They were not happy campers.  The smartphones without data were grandfathered only as long as they are continuously used.  Changing phones and/or upgrading ends the exemption from having data.

When we have switched phones on our family plan, AT&T has detected it quickly, but no smartphones were involved so nothing changed.  (My kids have broken or drowned their phones and had to borrow until being able to upgrade.)  I was surprised at how fast the phone icons on our online account changed to reflect our phone changes.  So keep using your Tilt and don't do any switching, just to be safe!

You can always add a data plan to your Tilt for $15 or $25, but you will not be able to take it off again if you do that.  If you give up your grandfathered status for any reason, you cannot get it back.

[ormom51]

dracs, you could give the iPhone 4 to someone else and they could use it-they would just have to go get a micro sim card from AT&T to do that.  But if you mean that someone else could just pop in their sim and use it, then no, they could not.  And you would have to go get a regular sim card to use in another phone if you gave away or sold your iPhone.  There are supposed to be some adapters available that can change sim cards to micro sims-or maybe the other way around, too.  Not sure how well they work, though, or where you get them.  You could Google the adapter if you want to look for one, though.

[dracs]

Thanks ormom for your replies. Perfect makes sense.

Ormom , when I give away my Iphone 4G to somebody else , then can they can get micro sim if they didn't have one?

 Also Will data plan also go away to the person or it will still stick to my " sim " , since this is the sim IPhone 4G was activated on or both will have to pay for Data plan ( I  know person using having is must but what about one who gave away? )

Again, thanking for taking time and helping me clearing the doubts.

[ormom51]

If you give away your iPhone 4, the lucky recipient should be able to go into an AT&T store and get a new micro sim card.  The micro sim card that will come with the phone will be for YOUR cell number so the recipient will need to go get a new one.  You will need to go and a new regular sim card for whichever phone you decide to use-since the sim will not be in an iPhone, you will not have a data plan added automatically.  The data plan will "stick" to the micro sim card of the phone user.  Anyone who puts a sim or micro sim card into any iPhone will have a data plan added because AT&T's network WILL detect that. 

If you want to give your phone to someone, the easiest way is to go  into a corporate store with that person and tell them you want to switch phones.  A friend gave my daughter an iPhone 3 a few months ago when she purchased a new 3Gs for herself.  They went into the store together and had the original phone placed on my daughter's account, with the data plan and the friend got her new iPhone and kept her data plan.  Do this when you receive the phone, BEFORE you hook up to iTunes or do anything else with the phone.  That way, the data plans can be placed appropriately on the account of the person using the iPhone 4.  Switching phones is common and they should be able to help you out with no problem.

[dracs]

Thank you very much.

Appreaciate your time  and effort.

[ormom51]

You're welcome.  Hope the information helped.

[hostit1]

How in the world could this be legal?

I like having a smart phone, but I don't like being forced to use AT&T's data services.  Their data network (my thoughts) are not very good these days with the over subscription of their network due to the demanding iphone data usage.

My phone's all have wifi capability and for about two years I was able to use my phones without using AT&T's data network . . . instead using my wifi connection. Now they have added the data plan regardless of me wanting to use it.  This is simply another way to get more money out of us.  They have always been able to deactivate the packet network in the past regardless of what phone I use.

So now, I have to buy "dumb" phones if I want to use AT&T phone service.  I believe that there will be some legal challenges and I believe that this policy can be challenged in the court system now.

[ormom51]

I also do not like the forced data plan idea.  But it has been in place since September 6, 2009 and I have  heard no legal challenges.  AT&T isn't forcing anyone to use a smartphone, but if we do, we pay.  I think the other carriers have the same requirement.  T-Mobile, I think, has a different policy if you pay full price for a phone or bring one that you purchased elsewhere for use on their network.

[felixgng]

I am in the same situation as you. I am willing to pay full price for the iPhone 4 but I haven't because I don't need the data plan.

Legal or not is not ethical. But ethics means nothing in corporate America, AT&T has more money and lobbyists that will curve the law in their favor. Maybe even the judge invest in AT&T. Too bad that Apple is missing a $1800 sale (I was going to buy 3) just for a forced $15 data plan.

[lawrenmarie08]

This has nothing to do with Iphones but I do have a question about upgrading and swapping phones. I used my younger sister's upgrade to get a new palm pixi smartphone. We have swapped phones quite a few times so normally I would have no issues, but because it is a smartphone we had to get a data plan. Neither of us ever had a data plan before this and she does not need one because she will have an older phone. Will the data plan swap to my sim card or will she still have to pay for data even if we swap phones? Thanks.

[BrianfromNO]

You are wrong.  If you add a smartphone to a line that did not previously have a smartphone, AND AT&T figures out you're using a smartphone, they will add the appropriate data plan for you.  Doesn't matter if the smartphone is unlocked, out of contract, etc.  The age of the phone doesn't matter, either.  

Also, if a smartphone data plan is added to a line, the only way to get rid of it is to go back to a feature phone (one that doesn't require a data plan), and you may have to provide the IMEI to AT&T.

The only way to maintain the grandfathering of not subscribing to the required data plan is to keep a smartphone active on that line.  Change phones, and your grandfathering goes away.

Similarly, iPhones always require data plans.  No exceptions.  The only way to remove the iPhone data plan is to replace the iPhone with a phone that doesn't require a data plan.

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dracs wrote:

Hey , missed clarification about this part

" If you take the sim out of the Tilt and use it in a non-smartphone, then when you put it back in the Tilt, a data plan will be added.  (Providing AT&T notices.)  The no-data option is good only as long as you continuously use that Tilt. "

I don't think , ATT can add data plan in any way even when I use my sim in other phone and put back in tilt.

I got my phone in 2008 and I don't fall under the new regulations which bound any smartphone to have data plan ( effectively sept 2009 ).

Correct me if I am wrong.

Also that leaves my question unanswered about whether I can add/remove data plan on this tilt which is not bounded by new rules and regulations.

Thanks.

---

[ortizobed]

This is completely illegal and shameless on the part of att. I purchased an iphone back in april of 2007 and chose to have the data plan. On September 6 2009 att made a public statment saying this :

Beginning September 6, 2009, customers who activate or upgrade to a Smartphone will need to sign up for an appropriate data plan. Existing Smartphone customers active prior to September 6, 2009 will be grandfathered and exempt from the new policy.

However, att hasn't honored their agreement with me regarding this issue. I am repeatedly told that a data plan is now required. I tell them about the statement they made above but they tell me that since then they have made other policy changes. In this case I was not informed of said policy changes and given the opportunity to cancel my service contract as required by law. I just spoke to a Kenyell {Personal content removed for safety} and her Manager "Tequilla" who said that they do understand this issue but they they cannot do anything but repeat the company policy. They also state that there is no other way to escalate this issue any higher.

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

[wingrider01 ACE - Geek]

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ortizobed wrote:

This is completely illegal and shameless on the part of att. I purchased an iphone back in april of 2007 and chose to have the data plan. On September 6 2009 att made a public statment saying this :

Beginning September 6, 2009, customers who activate or upgrade to a Smartphone will need to sign up for an appropriate data plan. Existing Smartphone customers active prior to September 6, 2009 will be grandfathered and exempt from the new policy.

However, att hasn't honored their agreement with me regarding this issue. I am repeatedly told that a data plan is now required. I tell them about the statement they made above but they tell me that since then they have made other policy changes. In this case I was not informed of said policy changes and given the opportunity to cancel my service contract as required by law. I just spoke to a Kenyell Lang and her Manager "Tequilla" who said that they do understand this issue but they they cannot do anything but repeat the company policy. They also state that there is no other way to escalate this issue any higher.

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

---

No it does not, the Iphone has ALWAYS required a data plan, this goes back to the 2G. If you had a old smartphone with no data plan you where only grandfathered in until you changed or upgrade that smartphone, at that time the grandfathered exemption was removed, the grandfather status was tied to the phone you had in use when the new requirement went into effect. I am pretty sure this was on the bill, both the online version and te paper version.

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

[ortizobed]

I believe you are wrong. Show me documentation that states this is the case. I am sorry but I am not to keen on taking att's word. In my contract doesn't say what you just states but [Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate] and no no payment.

[ortizobed]

In fact, let's make it a public challenge for att to show proof of this statement they seem to be passing on as truth. "ATT has ALWAYS required a data plan for smart phones".

If this were true why would they make a statement on September 6 2009 saying that from that point on a data plan was required?

Why isn't this in my contract?

If they changed this policy, why didn't they inform customers and also why didn't they inform customers of the option to cancel the service contract?

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

[wingrider01 ACE - Geek]

---

ortizobed wrote:

In fact, let's make it a public challenge for att to show proof of this statement they seem to be passing on as truth. "ATT has ALWAYS required a data plan for smart phones".

If this were true why would they make a statement on September 6 2009 saying that from that point on a data plan was required?

Why isn't this in my contract?

If they changed this policy, why didn't they inform customers and also why didn't they inform customers of the option to cancel the service contract?

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

---

believe what you want to believe, the Iphone has always required the data plan, it was a different one the 2g, it included some text messages. In Spet 2009 the data plan became required for all other smartphones.  The DID inform the end users, there was a 80 page arguement overin the RIM forums on this very subject.

The was NO option to cancel the service contract without paying the ETF - if you had a contract or even a out of contract smartphone with no data plan when the requirement came into affect your where grandfathered in, the grandfather was removed when you changed the smartphone tha had the no data plan required flag

[Tilt-A-Rama]

They detect your data plan because its in the sim. The plans dont go where the phone goes. Its all in the sim. Again,all smartphones must have a data plan. Meaning,if u activate a smartphone,u must get a data plan.

[ortizobed]

Oddly enough when my iphone was purchased neither the att representative nor the contract states a requirment on the data plan. Another issue is your belief that I changed into a smart phone. This is not true at all. I purchased the phone and this is the only phone I have had with att. I had no other dumb phone before. You can say anything you want but the challenge stands. Show proof. Just because you repeat things doesn't make them true. I have my contract here and can forward it to anyone who is interested. We know that is what is important here don't we?

[ortizobed]

Just to remind people, there is a law and the law is a requirement in the states. Just because ATT has a policy doesn't mean that policy is the law. As you can easily see, att is breaking the law not to mention all ethical rules that might exist. But the important thing is the law.

[Tilt-A-Rama]

What law? Company policy is what itis. Every company has their own.
Are u talkin about the first 2G iphone.What was that,in 07? Things have changed....The law is a requirement here in the states? As opposed to what? The rest of the lawless world?!?

[erichamion]

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ortizobed wrote:

In fact, let's make it a public challenge for att to show proof of this statement they seem to be passing on as truth. "ATT has ALWAYS required a data plan for smart phones".

If this were true why would they make a statement on September 6 2009 saying that from that point on a data plan was required?

Why isn't this in my contract?

If they changed this policy, why didn't they inform customers and also why didn't they inform customers of the option to cancel the service contract?

[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

---

Um, I'm not sure who told you that.  AT&T has ALWAYS required a data plan for iPhones.  That requirement was extended to include all smartphones in 2009.

[Tilt-A-Rama]

DING! Do u understand now why they made that statement?
[Per Guidelines:  Keep it Relevant and Appropriate].

[pamelaz]

I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to post your comments and opinions related to this topic. This topic has been thoroughly discussed and will now be closed.