Overseas Cell Phones

zachthecat · ‎08-24-2010

Hi, I was debating on buying the Ephone i68 or the PinPhone.

Don't post saying iphone is better, etc. Because I have already gone the iphone route and it is a headache with the required data plan which I am not going to get into (probably because its such a ridiculous overly talked about topic that ATT will never back off on.)

Anyways, what I was wondering was if I was to get it, would I get a dataplan? I don't want one. I don't need one. I think they are a waste of money.

Just doing a bit of research before I buy.

Thanks,

Zach

shenanigans · ‎03-04-2008

If your phone is recognized by AT&T's system as a smartphone, it will require a smartphone data plan.

If your phone is not recognized by AT&T's system as a smartphone, it will not require a smartphone data plan.

I do not know anyone with an Ephone i68 or a PinPhone so I do not know how they show up in the system. I would recommend purchasing a phone with a good return policy if you are concerned about this.

I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent AT&T’s positions, strategies or opinions.

zachthecat · ‎08-24-2010

"If your phone is recognized by AT&T's system as a smartphone, it will require a smartphone data plan. If your phone is not recognized by AT&T's system as a smartphone, it will not require a smartphone data plan."

I realize this because of the iPhone. It's just another customer (like myself) who is trying to get around the data plan so I can use a phone with good threaded texting. Trust me, if ATT didn't need the data charge, I would be totally fine with an iphone. But, until ATT listens to its userbase, I will have to cope. (Not trying to harp on att, as I love the company)

"I do not know anyone with an Ephone i68 or a PinPhone so I do not know how they show up in the system. I would recommend purchasing a phone with a good return policy if you are concerned about this."

Me either Well, the ebay return policy is a really good one in my opinion (through pay pal at least). But, is there a list provided by ATT that shows what would be listed as a smartphone in their system? A simple list would help a lot of people find their perfect phone, if you know what I mean

BrianfromNO · ‎03-16-2006

This require isn't going to change, and the data plan requirement has obviously not deterred enough people to keep the iPhone 4 from being a runaway hit. There is no need to "listen to its userbase", as their customers have spoken...LOUDLY!

There is no authoritative list of what constitutes a smartphone. Generally speaking, devices with advanced OS's - iOS, Android, Windows Mobile, BB OS, and some of the more advanced Nokia phones - that have more robust browsers are considered smartphones.

zachthecat wrote:
"If your phone is recognized by AT&T's system as a smartphone, it will require a smartphone data plan. If your phone is not recognized by AT&T's system as a smartphone, it will not require a smartphone data plan."

I realize this because of the iPhone. It's just another customer (like myself) who is trying to get around the data plan so I can use a phone with good threaded texting. Trust me, if ATT didn't need the data charge, I would be totally fine with an iphone. But, until ATT listens to its userbase, I will have to cope. (Not trying to harp on att, as I love the company)

"I do not know anyone with an Ephone i68 or a PinPhone so I do not know how they show up in the system. I would recommend purchasing a phone with a good return policy if you are concerned about this."

Me either Well, the ebay return policy is a really good one in my opinion (through pay pal at least). But, is there a list provided by ATT that shows what would be listed as a smartphone in their system? A simple list would help a lot of people find their perfect phone, if you know what I mean

zachthecat · ‎08-24-2010

BrianfromNO wrote:
This require isn't going to change, and the data plan requirement has obviously not deterred enough people to keep the iPhone 4 from being a runaway hit. There is no need to "listen to its userbase", as their customers have spoken...LOUDLY!

There is no authoritative list of what constitutes a smartphone. Generally speaking, devices with advanced OS's - iOS, Android, Windows Mobile, BB OS, and some of the more advanced Nokia phones - that have more robust browsers are considered smartphones.

Have you heard of hype? Social stature? Or even "resell"?

Customers for the IPHONE have spoken loudly. Not att, last I checked, it can be unlocked. And Verizon acquired the iPhone rights, so watch your precious userbase go away.

So yes, they do need to listen to their userbase. A majority of comments about ATT's new policy that I have read are entirely negative. People don't believe that ATT should play Nanny and constitute what is good and what isn't.

Honestly, I don't believe you should be forced into a service that doesn't fit your needs. Or has ATT forgotten that?

Face it, ATT has gotten money hungry.

So hear this, as I am apart of the userbase, I support the iPhone. I love the iPhone. I SUPPORT APPLE. However, just because I bought an iphone 4 doesn't mean I necessarily support ATT. Or is it just me that people are reselling their iphone 4s for outrageous prices.

So basically, this is a suggestion for your precious company. Give your users a definitive list as to what a smartphone is so we don't go into buying a phone and get stuck with YOUR charges that YOU think is good for US. IF you want to put required charges, at least list the devices that would be stuck with them. Not this "wait and see" policy you guys seem to think is so innocent.

BrianfromNO · ‎03-16-2006

I'm not even sure what your first line of questioning means.

Customers across ALL the major carriers have spoken pretty loudly in buying phones that require data plans and have higher ETFs. The iPhone, various Droids, and Blackberry devices are all selling pretty well.

And there has been no definitive announcement from either Verizon or Apple that a CDMA iPhone is coming. It's not just plug & play to take out the UMTS internals of the phone and replace them with CDMA. Do a little research before you make silly statements.

So no, AT&T really doesn't need to do anything. And are you seriously asserting that because the majority of comments in places like this and other forums are negative, that you can draw some kind of conclusion from that? You could say, "Well, gee, these phones are terrible, because all people do is complain about them". You're overlooking the very basic fact that people whose phones are working great don't need to come in here to say "Gee, my phone is working GREAT!". AT&T has in the neighborhood of 90 million customers, so the user base of any of these forums is a small (and decidedly non-scientific) sampling of those customers.

There is NO definitive list, nor will there be one. The list of OS's I provided is about as close as you're going to receive defining what a smartphone is. If these iPhone clones are running Windows Mobile or Android badged to look like iOS, and AT&T detects your OS, they have the right to add a data plan to the device. That's it, really.

And I don't work for AT&T, and nobody from AT&T is going to come in here and debate their policies or business rationales with you.

sitnsidewayz · ‎02-06-2006

Truthfully, AT&T does need to come up with a better definition of a smartphone than this:

http://www.wireless.att.com/answer-center/main.jsp?t=solutionTab&ft=browseTab&ps=solutionPanels&loca...

This would help some. I do agree that today it is primarily based on the operating system. The browser used to be key as well, but today there are few quick messaging devices that have full HTML browsers.

zachthecat · ‎08-24-2010

BrianfromNO wrote:

I'm not even sure what your first line of questioning means.

Customers across ALL the major carriers have spoken pretty loudly in buying phones that require data plans and have higher ETFs. The iPhone, various Droids, and Blackberry devices are all selling pretty well.

And there has been no definitive announcement from either Verizon or Apple that a CDMA iPhone is coming. It's not just plug & play to take out the UMTS internals of the phone and replace them with CDMA. Do a little research before you make silly statements.

So no, AT&T really doesn't need to do anything. And are you seriously asserting that because the majority of comments in places like this and other forums are negative, that you can draw some kind of conclusion from that? You could say, "Well, gee, these phones are terrible, because all people do is complain about them". You're overlooking the very basic fact that people whose phones are working great don't need to come in here to say "Gee, my phone is working GREAT!". AT&T has in the neighborhood of 90 million customers, so the user base of any of these forums is a small (and decidedly non-scientific) sampling of those customers.

There is NO definitive list, nor will there be one. The list of OS's I provided is about as close as you're going to receive defining what a smartphone is. If these iPhone clones are running Windows Mobile or Android badged to look like iOS, and AT&T detects your OS, they have the right to add a data plan to the device. That's it, really.

And I don't work for AT&T, and nobody from AT&T is going to come in here and debate their policies or business rationales with you.

Last I checked, it was businesses that were buying the blackberries because they actually need the dataplans. Droids don't slap you on with required dataplans. Only the iphone and those that were bought before the policies do enjoy their iphones. Want my references, do a google check on that.

Yes, I AM SERIOUSLY MAKING A CONCLUSION BECAUSE A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE POLICY, INCLUDING MYSELF. So, are they the userbase? YES. The majority is the userbase. And guess what? When you take a census, who do you count in the survey? The people who actually voice their opinions, am I right? Or is it the people who don't take the actual essay. Just because people don't come on here and complain about their policies, doesn't mean that they aren't complaining. In fact, I know loads of people without accounts on here who complain about the data policy. They find it a money sucking scheme that turned a once great company into a money crazed glutton.

Silly statements? All I want is a flipping list. And a list is what ATT, Verizon or whatever is the least they can give if they are going to AUTOMATICALLY slap on fees onto your phone. I don't give a flying hoop if you list OS's that are "as close as I am going to receive" in getting a definition. IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHARGE ME, TELL ME WHAT IS GOING TO BE CHARGED.

I don't see the rationale in "If you buy a phone that you didn't know was going to be charged...well too bad!" {Keep it courteous}

Oh and guess what? I bet if you asked ATT users on the streets whether or not they would like to have a list of phones (if they are going to be purchasing) that will require the unlimited texting or data plans, I bet they would want that list.

Thank you for basically not helping, BrianfromNO. Just for making me more irritated with those few who like to think that companies can charge you for things that most don't need.

jii · ‎11-12-2007

Last I checked, it was businesses that were buying the blackberries because they actually need the dataplans. Droids don't slap you on with required dataplans. Only the iphone and those that were bought before the policies do enjoy their iphones. Want my references, do a google check on that.

Yes, I AM SERIOUSLY MAKING A CONCLUSION BECAUSE A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE POLICY, INCLUDING MYSELF. So, are they the userbase? YES. The majority is the userbase. And guess what? When you take a census, who do you count in the survey? The people who actually voice their opinions, am I right? Or is it the people who don't take the actual essay. Just because people don't come on here and complain about their policies, doesn't mean that they aren't complaining. In fact, I know loads of people without accounts on here who complain about the data policy. They find it a money sucking scheme that turned a once great company into a money crazed glutton.

Silly statements? All I want is a flipping list. And a list is what ATT, Verizon or whatever is the least they can give if they are going to AUTOMATICALLY slap on fees onto your phone. I don't give a flying hoop if you list OS's that are "as close as I am going to receive" in getting a definition. IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHARGE ME, TELL ME WHAT IS GOING TO BE CHARGED.

I don't see the rationale in "If you buy a phone that you didn't know was going to be charged...well too bad!" {Keep it courteous}

Oh and guess what? I bet if you asked ATT users on the streets whether or not they would like to have a list of phones (if they are going to be purchasing) that will require the unlimited texting or data plans, I bet they would want that list.

Thank you for basically not helping, BrianfromNO. Just for making me more irritated with those few who like to think that companies can charge you for things that most don't need.

the whole "mandatory data plan" debate has been done before. numerous times. to the point of death. fact of the matter is, at&t isnt the only carrier thats doing this. last i heard, every other major carrier has been doing it for a while too.

and as for the "Last I checked, it was businesses that were buying the blackberries because they actually need the dataplans" comment...look around you. seriously. take a second, and look around you. everyone, everyone and their mother, everyone and their mothers neighbors 13 year old daughter has a smartphone (as much as i hate the iphone, ive gotta say that it changed the game. i dont ever remember seeing cell phone manufacturers spending as much on marketing as i do now). financially, it only makes sense that the carriers would make data plans mandatory for certain devices. do i agree with it? nope. does brian agree with it? i doubt it.

but what else are we to do?

BrianfromNO · ‎03-16-2006

I know a number of individual users who bought Blackberry devices because they like the keyboards...and however inelegant their OS is, it does work. ALL the major carriers now require data plans with smartphones, although at least one and possibly two of them may waive the requirement if you pay full retail price for the phone.

{Keep it courteous}

You're coming in to an AT&T-provided forum asking how to skirt AT&T requirements. You keep spouting off nonsense without anything to back up your claims. I'm stating the facts....if AT&T recognizes your phone as a smartphone, they have a right to add the data plan. If you don't like it, find a carrier without the requirements.

As for your list, it's never going to exist. There are too many manufacturers making too many phones in far too many markets for any of the carriers to think it's worth going to the expense of creating and maintaining a comprehensive list of smartphones. If the phone runs one of the major smartphone OS, which I've already listed, it's probably considered a smartphone by AT&T. And AT&T CAN tell what kind of phone you have by its IMEI.

Seriously, dude, if you don't like it, find another carrier. It's really that simple. You can debate the policies and requirements until you're blue in the face, but 1) AT&T officials will never come in here and respond and 2) it doesn't matter, because you have about as much influence over AT&T's business decisions as you do on the price of tea in China.

zachthecat wrote:

Last I checked, it was businesses that were buying the blackberries because they actually need the dataplans. Droids don't slap you on with required dataplans. Only the iphone and those that were bought before the policies do enjoy their iphones. Want my references, do a google check on that.

Yes, I AM SERIOUSLY MAKING A CONCLUSION BECAUSE A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE POLICY, INCLUDING MYSELF. So, are they the userbase? YES. The majority is the userbase. And guess what? When you take a census, who do you count in the survey? The people who actually voice their opinions, am I right? Or is it the people who don't take the actual essay. Just because people don't come on here and complain about their policies, doesn't mean that they aren't complaining. In fact, I know loads of people without accounts on here who complain about the data policy. They find it a money sucking scheme that turned a once great company into a money crazed glutton.

Silly statements? All I want is a flipping list. And a list is what ATT, Verizon or whatever is the least they can give if they are going to AUTOMATICALLY slap on fees onto your phone. I don't give a flying hoop if you list OS's that are "as close as I am going to receive" in getting a definition. IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHARGE ME, TELL ME WHAT IS GOING TO BE CHARGED.

I don't see the rationale in "If you buy a phone that you didn't know was going to be charged...well too bad!" {Keep it courteous}

Oh and guess what? I bet if you asked ATT users on the streets whether or not they would like to have a list of phones (if they are going to be purchasing) that will require the unlimited texting or data plans, I bet they would want that list.

Thank you for basically not helping, BrianfromNO. Just for making me more irritated with those few who like to think that companies can charge you for things that most don't need.

Glomag · ‎04-08-2009

Keep it Courteous -- Everyone wants to have a positive experience while on the Forums. Your opinions are always welcome, but personal attacks and harassment in the Forum, including through the Forums private messaging system, are not acceptable. Thank you.

Remember to always mark items that you find useful as "Accepted Solutions”, you can even mark multiple
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zachthecat · ‎08-24-2010

BrianfromNO wrote:
I know a number of individual users who bought Blackberry devices because they like the keyboards...and however inelegant their OS is, it does work. ALL the major carriers now require data plans with smartphones, although at least one and possibly two of them may waive the requirement if you pay full retail price for the phone.

{Keep it courteous}

You're coming in to an AT&T-provided forum asking how to skirt AT&T requirements. You keep spouting off nonsense without anything to back up your claims. I'm stating the facts....if AT&T recognizes your phone as a smartphone, they have a right to add the data plan. If you don't like it, find a carrier without the requirements.

As for your list, it's never going to exist. There are too many manufacturers making too many phones in far too many markets for any of the carriers to think it's worth going to the expense of creating and maintaining a comprehensive list of smartphones. If the phone runs one of the major smartphone OS, which I've already listed, it's probably considered a smartphone by AT&T. And AT&T CAN tell what kind of phone you have by its IMEI.

Seriously, dude, if you don't like it, find another carrier. It's really that simple. You can debate the policies and requirements until you're blue in the face, but 1) AT&T officials will never come in here and respond and 2) it doesn't matter, because you have about as much influence over AT&T's business decisions as you do on the price of tea in China.

I COME IN here? I do? lol.

Sir, you have the option to let things go by not responding. I am not trying to skirt the system, I am looking for a phone with threaded texting that has a large enough screen for my eyes. The Xenon can't cut it, so now I am looking to see if something would be in the forced data charges. YOU come in here telling me about how the userbase is speaking "loudly" and basically justifying my words that no one has an idea what a smartphone is.

I KNOW ATT can tell what kind of phone you have by the IMEI, which is why I got rid of the iphone because it was the first time I ran into this problem.

Let me rant all I want, its a forum, I can complain all I want and its people like you who like to argue with me.

As for my list, it may exist soon enough if people continue to make a point of the issue. There aren't too many manufacturers to simply say "that's a smartphone" and write the name down. Seriously, that doesn't sound like an expensive process.

Is it just me? Or do you think its okay for a company to add charges that you don't use. It's like charging room service for a hotel room even though you never used it BUT they charged you anyways because you "might" use it.

I wasn't asking how to skirt requirements, I am asking if the phone I wanted was able to keep me without the dataplan. Is it really that hard to just be like "hey, this guy actually has a brain to do a bit of homework before he comes in here and complains how he was getting charged for data on a phone not even sold by ATT".

You answer is vague, and will not be considered a solution. Stay out of the thread, you aren't helping but merely fueling fire.

BrianfromNO · ‎03-16-2006

In your second post you admitted you were trying to "get around the data plan". Either that was a poor choice of words or you were signaling your intent to try to game AT&T's system by getting an unrecognized smartphone. Look in the upper left hand corner. See that logo? That's right, it's the AT&T logo. This is an AT&T-provided forum for AT&T customers to help other current and prospective customers. If you want to talk about modding your phone, questionably jailbreaking or unlocking your phone, or other ways to skirt AT&T's policies or requirements, this is probably not the right place to do so.

Just as there is no magic majority of people who will voice their disappointment and get the data plan requirement overturned, there will not be a list of every model of phone considered a smartphone. There are simply too many manufacturers making too many phones, many of which aren't made for or intended to be shipped to the American market.

Whether or not you or I agree with the policy is immaterial. I disagree with having to pay upwards of $30 in tolls to drive from DC to NYC, but I also don't make the rules. Their networks (whether we're talking about cell networks or roads), their rules.

I really don't care whether you consider my answer a solution or not. It's the closest you're going to get to an answer. And there's nothing you can do to stop me from replying.

dmapr · ‎02-04-2004

BrianfromNO wrote:
In your second post you admitted you were trying to "get around the data plan". Either that was a poor choice of words or you were signaling your intent to try to game AT&T's system by getting an unrecognized smartphone. Look in the upper left hand corner. See that logo? That's right, it's the AT&T logo. This is an AT&T-provided forum for AT&T customers to help other current and prospective customers. If you want to talk about modding your phone, questionably jailbreaking or unlocking your phone, or other ways to skirt AT&T's policies or requirements, this is probably not the right place to do so.

Just as there is no magic majority of people who will voice their disappointment and get the data plan requirement overturned, there will not be a list of every model of phone considered a smartphone. There are simply too many manufacturers making too many phones, many of which aren't made for or intended to be shipped to the American market.

Whether or not you or I agree with the policy is immaterial. I disagree with having to pay upwards of $30 in tolls to drive from DC to NYC, but I also don't make the rules. Their networks (whether we're talking about cell networks or roads), their rules.

I really don't care whether you consider my answer a solution or not. It's the closest you're going to get to an answer. And there's nothing you can do to stop me from replying.

It's quite interesting that you chose the example of toll roads to make your point. So if you were looking for a non-toll route from DC to NYC you'd be OK with everybody replying “just pay the toll?” Or would you consider it permissible to find non-toll roads to drive on?

All the OP stated was that he's looking for a phone “with good threaded texting” that didn't require a data plan. I fail to see how this can be read as an attempt to violate an AT&T policy. Even AT&T doesn't define smartphone to be any phone with good threaded texting.

To the OP — unfortunately, what you're trying to do is not that easy. As shenanigans and sitnsidewayz have pointed out, there's no clear definition of which phones will require a data plan and you're at the mercy of the AT&Ts billing system…

zachthecat · ‎08-24-2010

BrianfromNO wrote:
In your second post you admitted you were trying to "get around the data plan". Either that was a poor choice of words or you were signaling your intent to try to game AT&T's system by getting an unrecognized smartphone. Look in the upper left hand corner. See that logo? That's right, it's the AT&T logo. This is an AT&T-provided forum for AT&T customers to help other current and prospective customers. If you want to talk about modding your phone, questionably jailbreaking or unlocking your phone, or other ways to skirt AT&T's policies or requirements, this is probably not the right place to do so.

Just as there is no magic majority of people who will voice their disappointment and get the data plan requirement overturned, there will not be a list of every model of phone considered a smartphone. There are simply too many manufacturers making too many phones, many of which aren't made for or intended to be shipped to the American market.

Whether or not you or I agree with the policy is immaterial. I disagree with having to pay upwards of $30 in tolls to drive from DC to NYC, but I also don't make the rules. Their networks (whether we're talking about cell networks or roads), their rules.

I really don't care whether you consider my answer a solution or not. It's the closest you're going to get to an answer. And there's nothing you can do to stop me from replying.

Too long; didn't read. Your points bore me, and aren't quite helpful at all.

Do I tell you that you have to stop posting? Nah. I just recommended it.

Those 30$ benefits you in repairing your roads, street signs, etc. This isn't a public service, its a cell phone company looking to charge you for something you don't necessarily use. If you are going to use the toll roads, you must pay the toll. I never said that I wanted to use Data and didn't want to pay the data charges. The point is, I don't want to pay for data that I will not use. Get it?

Would you want to pay for that toll if you don't even use the road?

*You would be surprised what kind of power a consumer has. People who complain about a company begin to look bad for the company. And usually companies change policies before they risk losing customers.

Last but, not least, I am not looking for any wifi phone, etc. I just want threaded texting but, don't want to get stuck with data charges. You see, I am willing to pay the text messaging fee because I use text messaging. (Hence the hotel analogy; I use the room, I rent the room. I don't pay for room service [data] ahead of time because I won't use it. )

Thanks, pal.

zachthecat · ‎08-24-2010

dmapr wrote:
BrianfromNO wrote:
In your second post you admitted you were trying to "get around the data plan". Either that was a poor choice of words or you were signaling your intent to try to game AT&T's system by getting an unrecognized smartphone. Look in the upper left hand corner. See that logo? That's right, it's the AT&T logo. This is an AT&T-provided forum for AT&T customers to help other current and prospective customers. If you want to talk about modding your phone, questionably jailbreaking or unlocking your phone, or other ways to skirt AT&T's policies or requirements, this is probably not the right place to do so.

Just as there is no magic majority of people who will voice their disappointment and get the data plan requirement overturned, there will not be a list of every model of phone considered a smartphone. There are simply too many manufacturers making too many phones, many of which aren't made for or intended to be shipped to the American market.

Whether or not you or I agree with the policy is immaterial. I disagree with having to pay upwards of $30 in tolls to drive from DC to NYC, but I also don't make the rules. Their networks (whether we're talking about cell networks or roads), their rules.

I really don't care whether you consider my answer a solution or not. It's the closest you're going to get to an answer. And there's nothing you can do to stop me from replying.

It's quite interesting that you chose the example of toll roads to make your point. So if you were looking for a non-toll route from DC to NYC you'd be OK with everybody replying “just pay the toll?” Or would you consider it permissible to find non-toll roads to drive on?

All the OP stated was that he's looking for a phone “with good threaded texting” that didn't require a data plan. I fail to see how this can be read as an attempt to violate an AT&T policy. Even AT&T doesn't define smartphone to be any phone with good threaded texting.

To the OP — unfortunately, what you're trying to do is not that easy. As shenanigans and sitnsidewayz have pointed out, there's no clear definition of which phones will require a data plan and you're at the mercy of the AT&Ts billing system…

Thank you.

I see now that its going to be a gamble if I was to try. I will post the results (or not) if I decide to actually bite the bullet and check it out.

The only thing I expect from AT&T is a little more than just being in the mercy of their billing system.

BrianfromNO · ‎03-16-2006

Amazing how you respond to my points after you said you didn't read. The truth is often boring, as well as unpleasant.

If you think tolls on roads are to benefit a public service, then I have some oceanfront property in Nevada to sell you.

If I don't use the road, I don't pay the toll. Similarly, if I use a phone that AT&T doesn't deem a smartphone, I don't have to pay for a data plan. It's really that simple. I'm sure there's a QMD or other phone out there that doesn't require a data plan (although new QMDs are more commonly requiring unlimited texting).

pamelaz · ‎07-08-2009

Hello everyone, let's remember to stay on topic. Thank you.

Remember to always mark items that you find useful as "Accepted Solutions”, you can even mark multiple
posts in a single thread. This will help other users find this information too!!

dmapr · ‎02-04-2004

zachthecat wrote:

Thank you.
I see now that its going to be a gamble if I was to try. I will post the results (or not) if I decide to actually bite the bullet and check it out.
The only thing I expect from AT&T is a little more than just being in the mercy of their billing system.

It is a very reasonable expectation — and I agree, AT&T should make it clear which is which, especially now that they have introduced a concept of a “quick messaging device” which is a lot less universal than a smartphone. However it seems that they're basically only concerned with classifying the devices they sell themselves and not at all with everything else