funny - unlimited plans

eliot1785 · ‎12-30-2008

Funny how AT&T was happy to use the grandfathered Unlimited plan to convince existing customers to upgrade to the iPhone 4 or 4S, but now doesn't want to honor it. If AT&T can unilaterally downgrade customers from Unlimited plan to metered, can customers unilaterally quit without paying an ETF?

We all know there is congestion, but there's a difference between throttling on an as-needed basis, and metering based on a fixed number of gigabytes. It is dishonest to pretend that a plan that throttles after 3GB, regardless of local usage, is somehow "unlimited" simply because it kills connections instead of billing for overages.

The honest thing would be for AT&T to let affected customers out of their contracts. No reason not to switch to Verizon now.

wingrider01 · ‎05-26-2008

eliot1785 wrote:

Funny how AT&T was happy to use the grandfathered Unlimited plan to convince existing customers to upgrade to the iPhone 4 or 4S, but now doesn't want to honor it. If AT&T can unilaterally downgrade customers from Unlimited plan to metered, can customers unilaterally quit without paying an ETF?

We all know there is congestion, but there's a difference between throttling on an as-needed basis, and metering based on a fixed number of gigabytes. It is dishonest to pretend that a plan that throttles after 3GB, regardless of local usage, is somehow "unlimited" simply because it kills connections instead of billing for overages.

The honest thing would be for AT&T to let affected customers out of their contracts. No reason not to switch to Verizon now.

funny, think you are a little behind the times, they announced a change to the throttling recently, it now based on a set number - 3GB for 3g and 5GB for LTE.

The is no precendence for ATT to "let people out of their contracts" becasue the contracts are based on the voice plans in return for a huge subsidy on the cost of the phone, data plans are a required feature for smartphones, you can change phones in the middle of your contract to a qmd device, remove the data paln and still be in compliance of the contract.

Not sure why you are quoting to move to verizon, verizon no longer has a unlimited plan for smartphones either, they discontinued in about ayear ago. Whne you compare prices for tiered plans - leaving out limited time promotions that can end at any time, ATT's pricing for tiered data plans are lower overall.

The unlimited data plan for mobile and broadband is going by the wayside, t-mobile has a "unlimited" anything that also has throttled caps listed, Sprint has about the only unlimited plan left that is not enforing the aup policy, but suspect that will change - Virgin mobile, a carrier that is owned by Sprint just announced enforcement of the policies. even Cricket enforces the bandwidth limitations on their plans also.

The announcement of the discontinuing of the unlimited data plan was published before the ipphone 4 was releeased.

06/24/2010 for the gsm verion of the iphone 4

06/02/2010 for the news that the unlimited plan was discontinued

same as verizon, they discontinued their unlimited data plan when they announce they where getting the Iphone 4, main difference is verizon tends to put limits on how long their grandfathering of features last unlike what att did this time

There ws no need to "convience" people that the grandfathered plan was a valid reason to upgrade to the iphone 4, not sure where you got that idea, please are still getting subsidized iphones from the top twwo carriers - att & verizon and neither of them have unlimited data plans.

coolstorybro · ‎05-03-2011

so basically att is matching the price of the 3gb data plan $30/month to sync up with the unlimited data plan thats throttled to 3gb except you dont pay extra for going over. now there is no point in even having an unlimited data plan unless you have an LTE device since itll be throttled to 5gb (more data to be used).

eliot1785 · ‎12-30-2008

> funny, think you are a little behind the times, they announced a change to the throttling recently, it now based on a set number - 3GB for 3g and 5GB for LTE.

No, you misunderstand, my complaint is about the new policy, which is worse than the old, since AT&T is abandoning the core principle of the Unlimited plan, which is that you wouldn't be metered.

Every reasonable person always knew you could be throttled during network congestion. That happens everywhere, even in wireline, probably in wireless since the days of GPRS. The difference here is AT&T is now throttling using *monthly metering*, so you could be throttled even if nobody else is using the tower.

So, it seems this is more a business decision by AT&T, so it can in the future sell more expensive data plans (e.g. 10GB) without Unlimited customers picking that up for free. If it were a technical issue they would continue to localize it. I don't mind them trying to get paid more, but it's undeniable they're changing the terms.

Verizon's throttling, as I understand it, is still based on local congestion. They'll only throttle high users during peak times, and only by as much as they need.

As for the iPhone 4 upgrade decisions, the relevant date isn't when the Unlimited plan was discontinued, but when AT&T changed the terms for existing grandfathered customers (just now). This happened after a year of upgrades by grandfathered customers. The Unlimited plans clearly had an effect, so much so that Verizon had to temporarily offer Unlimited plans when it got the iPhone in January 2011.

If AT&T didn't want to continue the grandfathered plans, it could have forced a switch to metered billing when customers bought new iPhone 4/4S models, just as it forces changes in text messaging plans. AT&T didn't do that, clearly benefiting from customers who stuck with AT&T to preserve their grandfathered plans. Having allowed customers to sign new contracts on this basis, AT&T is now changing the terms regardless.

As for switching to Verizon, I simply meant that my grandfathered Unlimited plan was the main thing keeping me with AT&T.

In response to the AT&T employee who said:

>> so basically att is matching the price of the 3gb data plan $30/month to sync up with the unlimited data plan thats throttled to 3gb except you dont pay extra for going over. now there is no point in even having an unlimited data plan unless you have an LTE device since itll be throttled to 5gb (more data to be used).

I couldn't have said it better myself, this is a business desicion designed to discourage the Unlimited plans. I don't blame AT&T except insofar as they benefited from allowing customers to keep the grandfathered plans during upgrade decisions, and are blaming this on congestion.

wingrider01 · ‎05-26-2008

eliot1785 wrote:

> funny, think you are a little behind the times, they announced a change to the throttling recently, it now based on a set number - 3GB for 3g and 5GB for LTE.

No, you misunderstand, my complaint is about the new policy, which is worse than the old, since AT&T is abandoning the core principle of the Unlimited plan, which is that you wouldn't be metered.

Every reasonable person always knew you could be throttled during network congestion. That happens everywhere, even in wireline, probably in wireless since the days of GPRS. The difference here is AT&T is now throttling using *monthly metering*, so you could be throttled even if nobody else is using the tower.

So, it seems this is more a business decision by AT&T, so it can in the future sell more expensive data plans (e.g. 10GB) without Unlimited customers picking that up for free. If it were a technical issue they would continue to localize it. I don't mind them trying to get paid more, but it's undeniable they're changing the terms.

Verizon's throttling, as I understand it, is still based on local congestion. They'll only throttle high users during peak times, and only by as much as they need.

As for the iPhone 4 upgrade decisions, the relevant date isn't when the Unlimited plan was discontinued, but when AT&T changed the terms for existing grandfathered customers (just now). This happened after a year of upgrades by grandfathered customers. The Unlimited plans clearly had an effect, so much so that Verizon had to temporarily offer Unlimited plans when it got the iPhone in January 2011.

If AT&T didn't want to continue the grandfathered plans, it could have forced a switch to metered billing when customers bought new iPhone 4/4S models, just as it forces changes in text messaging plans. AT&T didn't do that, clearly benefiting from customers who stuck with AT&T to preserve their grandfathered plans. Having allowed customers to sign new contracts on this basis, AT&T is now changing the terms regardless.

As for switching to Verizon, I simply meant that my grandfathered Unlimited plan was the main thing keeping me with AT&T.

In response to the AT&T employee who said:

>> so basically att is matching the price of the 3gb data plan $30/month to sync up with the unlimited data plan thats throttled to 3gb except you dont pay extra for going over. now there is no point in even having an unlimited data plan unless you have an LTE device since itll be throttled to 5gb (more data to be used).

I couldn't have said it better myself, this is a business desicion designed to discourage the Unlimited plans. I don't blame AT&T except insofar as they benefited from allowing customers to keep the grandfathered plans during upgrade decisions, and are blaming this on congestion.

What you msinderstand is the "core principle of the unlimited plan" was discontinued qhwn the plan was grandfathered and no longer available to the general populus, the reduction in data speeds would have happend if the plan was active or inactive. Did I miss a new tiered plan from att? where and what is the cost for the 10GB plan? Or are you just playing a speculation game?

I find it amusing that people where screaming about the "top 5% method" of determining how things are throttling, so ATT changed the method of determining who should be throttled and at what point they should be throttled and people are still screaming about it AND adding in the demand for tethering. So is it sage to believe that you prefer the old method of determining who should be throttled since you are posting a diatribe against the new method?

The need to term the grandfathered plan once and for all.

eliot1785 · ‎12-30-2008

wingrider01 wrote:

What you msinderstand is the "core principle of the unlimited plan" was discontinued qhwn the plan was grandfathered and no longer available to the general populus, the reduction in data speeds would have happend if the plan was active or inactive. Did I miss a new tiered plan from att? where and what is the cost for the 10GB plan? Or are you just playing a speculation game?

I find it amusing that people where screaming about the "top 5% method" of determining how things are throttling, so ATT changed the method of determining who should be throttled and at what point they should be throttled and people are still screaming about it AND adding in the demand for tethering. So is it sage to believe that you prefer the old method of determining who should be throttled since you are posting a diatribe against the new method?

The need to term the grandfathered plan once and for all.

While I'm upset about the changes, I'm truly not here to fight you, and I'm sorry if you felt that way. My goal was to provide detailed feedback/criticism to AT&T as a customer, because I wanted them to read it. I think I have made my points in a detailed and straightforward manner, and I have been surprised by your reaction.

As for the various methods, I don't feel either the "top 5% method" or "3GB/5GB method" is good. As I mentioned before, I prefer Verizon's approach, as described here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/02/technology/some-wireless-carriers-revise-limits-for-the-unlimited....

As for your criticism of my "speculation game," please reread my previous post. In it, I described why I feel this is primarily a business decision by AT&T, not a network management decision. I then presented a future 10GB plan as merely one way, among many, that it could benefit AT&T's business prospects. Finally, I clarified that my real complaint wasn't the elimination of the untermed plan per se, but the fact that AT&T profited from customer expectations that their plans would continue as-is.

eliot1785 · ‎12-30-2008

Also, here is a CNET article that agrees with my analysis:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-57389672-266/why-at-ts-new-throttling-policy-isnt-as-bad-as-last-o...

"The second reason they're doing this is because what they really want is for more customers to move to a tiered offering. AT&T won't admit this, but it's true. The company would much rather have all its customers on a tiered offering than the unlimited plan. Why? AT&T can't make any more money from an unlimited customer. The more data that customer uses, AT&T is paid the same monthly fee. There is no opportunity to up-sell that unlimited customer a higher-tier of service. But if that customer is on a tiered plan, AT&T can eventually sell him or her more bandwidth."

wingrider01 · ‎05-26-2008

eliot1785 wrote:

Also, here is a CNET article that agrees with my analysis:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-57389672-266/why-at-ts-new-throttling-policy-isnt-as-bad-as-last-o...

"The second reason they're doing this is because what they really want is for more customers to move to a tiered offering. AT&T won't admit this, but it's true. The company would much rather have all its customers on a tiered offering than the unlimited plan. Why? AT&T can't make any more money from an unlimited customer. The more data that customer uses, AT&T is paid the same monthly fee. There is no opportunity to up-sell that unlimited customer a higher-tier of service. But if that customer is on a tiered plan, AT&T can eventually sell him or her more bandwidth."

Sure then can sell them more bandwith - it puts the oneous on the end user to determine if they want to accept the personal repsonsiblity of paying attention to the data they consume, if not then they will pay the consequences one way or the other - grandfathered unlimited plan the carrier throttled, tiered plan they or who ever pays the phone bill will suffer. - end of day is personal responsiblity.

The unlimited plan is dead, poeple keep hoping they will get back what they had, as back in the day when peope where scream for other alternatives - be careful what you ask for, it may not be what you want. End it once and for all and term the plan the way they did the "no data plan required on a smartphone" feature. IF a unlimited plan gomes back suspect there wil be scream fo sticker shock when the price is announced.

Not fighting at all, the only thing I feel was handled wrong in this is they did not put a set termination clause on the plan.

Dcookie · ‎01-30-2008

wingrider01 wrote:

eliot1785 wrote:

Also, here is a CNET article that agrees with my analysis:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-57389672-266/why-at-ts-new-throttling-policy-isnt-as-bad-as-last-o...

"The second reason they're doing this is because what they really want is for more customers to move to a tiered offering. AT&T won't admit this, but it's true. The company would much rather have all its customers on a tiered offering than the unlimited plan. Why? AT&T can't make any more money from an unlimited customer. The more data that customer uses, AT&T is paid the same monthly fee. There is no opportunity to up-sell that unlimited customer a higher-tier of service. But if that customer is on a tiered plan, AT&T can eventually sell him or her more bandwidth."

Sure then can sell them more bandwith - it puts the oneous on the end user to determine if they want to accept the personal repsonsiblity of paying attention to the data they consume, if not then they will pay the consequences one way or the other - grandfathered unlimited plan the carrier throttled, tiered plan they or who ever pays the phone bill will suffer. - end of day is personal responsiblity.

The unlimited plan is dead, poeple keep hoping they will get back what they had, as back in the day when peope where scream for other alternatives - be careful what you ask for, it may not be what you want. End it once and for all and term the plan the way they did the "no data plan required on a smartphone" feature. IF a unlimited plan gomes back suspect there wil be scream fo sticker shock when the price is announced.

Not fighting at all, the only thing I feel was handled wrong in this is they did not put a set termination clause on the plan.

I remember those days...customers, NOT ALL, complained about paying the $30/mo for the data plan...so ATT obliged and changed it. They got what they wanted and then they wanted the $30.mo data plan back again. I AGREE...be careful what you ask for...

Hangin' with my Peeps!!