Recently lost captions on FX channels

[SF_Rachel]

As of a few weeks ago, I no longer have the ability to turn on CC for FX (not available for HD, regular, or On Demand). Seems to have occurred right about the time the law kicked in prohibiting programmers from cranking up the volume during commercials. 

Are cable channels not required to provide CC like broadcast channels are? Didn't Netflix recently get sued over this as an ADA thing? Or is this just happening on my system? 

By the way, when are we getting the promised update (supposed to be 2012 Q4, I thought) to streamline navigation to the CC menu? 26 clicks to get there is absurd. 

[BeeBeeSA ACE - Wizard]

I'm going to take a stab at this and say it's the provider not providing the CC and not Uverse.  If it work on another channel but not FX it's FX's problem.  Just saying.....

[gregzoll_1]

I just went in and turned on Closed Captioning on FX, by setting both the Analog & Digital choices to Closed Caption 1, and am getting CC on both 128/1128. If you are trying to do Closed Captioning from your TV, it may not work, because the Set Top is doing the decoding, not the TV.

As for Netflix getting sued, nope, has never happened. There are btw different types of captioning, depending on the material if it is DVD, Blu Ray, TV, Streaming video.

[Uniblurb3 ACE - Guru]

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SF_Rachel wrote:

As of a few weeks ago, I no longer have the ability to turn on CC for FX (not available for HD, regular, or On Demand). Seems to have occurred right about the time the law kicked in prohibiting programmers from cranking up the volume during commercials. 

Are cable channels not required to provide CC like broadcast channels are? Didn't Netflix recently get sued over this as an ADA thing? Or is this just happening on my system? 

By the way, when are we getting the promised update (supposed to be 2012 Q4, I thought) to streamline navigation to the CC menu? 26 clicks to get there is absurd. 

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Are you seeing the lack of closed captioning on all programming on FX SD/HD or just some programs? As already mentioned by gregzoll_1, I'm seeing the CC's on both 128 & 1128 when the digital/standard CC's are selected. But the movie "The Incredible Hulk" is on right now and most movies do have the CC's included.

If you aren't seeing CC's on FX what model of RG (residential gateway) do you have? The reason I ask is I was just upgraded to the 3801HGV which has newer software compared to my old 3800HGV-B. There were some freezing CC's and they disappeared on some programs in using the 3800 while they supposedly don't on the 3801. I'm still doing some checks on this since just did a self-install a few days ago.

There was a lawsuit filed by the NAD (National Association of the Deaf), along with some other parties, against Netflix back in June, 2010. You're correct in it was filed for lack of compliance with the ADA in not providing CC's on streamed programming. The lawsuit has been ongoing/was never dismissed and an agreement has been met where Netflix will provide CC's on 100% of programs by 2014. Supposedly Netflix already provides CC's on many of their movies/programs but since I don't stream their programs I have no way to verify.

http://www.nad.org/news/2012/10/netflix-and-national-association-deaf-reach-historic-agreement-provi...

Without a doubt AT&T/U-verse has "dropped the ball" in not providing easier access to the closed captions by the end of 2012. This was not supposed to be a permanent fix but just a temporary shorter route until a 1-toggle CC remote/button was released. I'll follow up on this with some calls to see what they have to say about the delay.

My sentiments exactly that it's "absurd" to have to click the remote 26 times to turn on the CC's, and about the same number of clicks to turn them off.

[gregzoll_1]

The thing about Netflix, is they fall into that Gray area, because of the type of service that they are, so I doubt that anything will ever come out of it, against them.

[Uniblurb3 ACE - Guru]

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gregzoll_1 wrote:
The thing about Netflix, is they fall into that Gray area, because of the type of service that they are, so I doubt that anything will ever come out of it, against them.

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I'm not sure what you mean since the settlement/agreement is Netflix will provide closed captions on 100% of their programs by 2014. That's all the NAD and others were after.

And there is no "Gray area" anymore concerning providing closed captioning by video streaming companies such as the major ones like Netflix, Hulu and Amazon. It's mandated by the FCC they will provide closed captions on their programming under the internet protocal-delivered programming guidelines of the "Twenty First Century Communications and Accessibility Act of 2010".

http://www.worldtvpc.com/blog/fcc-ruling-enforces-closed-captioning-for-television-streaming/

Note: the above link/article is slightly outdated and extended deadlines have been pushed back to 2014.

[gregzoll_1]

It is a gray area, because it is up to the device manufacturers to make the feature easily accessable and implementd. For both Closed Caption & Descriptive Audio.

[Uniblurb3 ACE - Guru]

We could go back and forth on this forever. The fact is if the FCC mandates easy access to closed captioning, and descriptive audio for the visually impaired which is a whole other topic, the providers simple won't buy equipment from the manufactures which don't include this easy access technology. And the manufacturers are fully aware of this need to include these features or they'll be out of business.

To go back OT for the OP's last part of their post. AT&T has made progress in leaps and bounds for their wireless services in catering to those with hearing/visual impairments but has completed ignored U-verse TV services for easy access to closed captioning. There's no debating this fact and not one improvement has been made for easier access to closed captions with U-verse TV services since it was released/launched in 2006.

[gregzoll_1]

Easy access to CC. It is Press Menu, scroll to Options, Audio/Language Options, then choose. Same way with most CATV providers and their set top box menus, that you have to do multiple actions, to get to the CC menu.

Yes some tv's have a single button, but what that button is actually doing, is performing a macro action.

[SF_Rachel]

I agree the problem probably originates on FX's end -- I just think AT&T should be responsible for contacting the network and having something done about it. We certainly pay enough. Whenever problems arise with content on specific channels (weird DVR behavior, captions, upconverting -- and poor quality upconverting -- to HD from SC -- Uverse always says its the provider and washes their hands of getting involved in any resolution. That seems to be the standard view taken by Uverse (and the other carriers) though honestly I don't know how they get away with it. I'm aware that they depend on the content providers for the content, but they contract with those providers for full service, and we contract with AT&T for full service. If a supplier isn't holding up their end of the deal, I don't see how the middleman isn't both empowered and responsible for holding the supplier accountable to the terms of their contract. It seems to me that the carrier ought to be more responsible for intervening with the provider when technical quality of the content isn't up to snuff. Furthermore, they really ought to be proactively quality control monitoring or at least sampling the top two or three dozen channels.

And for those asking, no I'm not trying to get captions from the TV. I'm using HDMI cables and I'm aware that HDMI cables disable native captioning from the TV. 

It's just FX, no other channels at present. I've tried all 4 digital caption settings and all 6 analog ones from the cable box. Nothing. 

[SF_Rachel]

Yes, all cable boxes work on the concept of having to navigate to turn captions on. However, AT&T's navigation to it is especially Byzantine. Almost two dozen clicks are required to turn on (or turn off) captions; this does not qualify as a simple or quick solution. Really, even being generous I don't see why this shouldn't be available in more than say 6 clicks. 

1 Menu

2 right

3 right

4 right

5 right

6 right (arrive at "options")

7 down

8 down

9 ok (selects  "audio/language options")

10 down

11 ok (selects "closed captioning")

12 right

13 ok (selects "change" from "digital closed captioning")

14 right

15 down

16 ok (selects "closed caption 1")

17 left

18 up

19 ok (selects "save")

20 left

21 ok (selects "done")

22 back

23 back (removes last of the menu clutter from screen)

[SF_Rachel]

Uniblurb3 -- thanks for your insights. I did assume it was all programming on the channel, but as I tool around this afternoon I'm seeing captions on daytime syndicated programming both live and DVR. I originally noticed it when watching a movie a few weeks ago, and have since seen it on original programming I DVR (Sunny, Justified). 

So either the problem is fixed now, or FX's problem is limited somehow; possibly primetime, possibly original programming, movies. Something. I'll DVR an FX movie this afternoon (and check on it live too), and I'll see what happens if I DVR a re-run of original programming like Wilfred and/or Louie tonight. But ultimately if those look good, I won't really feel like I know for sure until a fresh Justified comes up in Primetime next week. 

Interesting question about the gateway. Would it apply given that 1) I haven't changed my gateway in > 1 year and 2) this problem with FX captions only cropped up in mid/late December? 

FWIW regarding Netflix, in the bottom half of 2012 I started seeing captions pretty consistently, though not quite universally yet. In fact they responded so fast to the settlement that it was almost suspicious. If it was so easy, why the resistance? I am a bit curious about this generally, because it seems to me that the quality of CC has declined quite noticably in the past 5 years where it had been ubiquitous (i.e. the old broadcast networks). And while you'd think that technology would only make CC better and cooler, it seems like all kinds of devices, software, content providers, carriers like Uverse, and streaming services are doing their darndest to sabotage it. (For instance, why the heck does HDMI disable native captions? How did that happen?).

Is there a beef? If so, what the heck? It seems like all the burden of CC is on the actual act of transcribing and placing it on the screen, not carriage.

[gregzoll_1]

Set for Closed Caption 1 for both Digital & Analog. What set top box or DVR do you have?

[Uniblurb3 ACE - Guru]

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SF_Rachel wrote:

Uniblurb3 -- thanks for your insights. I did assume it was all programming on the channel, but as I tool around this afternoon I'm seeing captions on daytime syndicated programming both live and DVR. I originally noticed it when watching a movie a few weeks ago, and have since seen it on original programming I DVR (Sunny, Justified). 

So either the problem is fixed now, or FX's problem is limited somehow; possibly primetime, possibly original programming, movies. Something. I'll DVR an FX movie this afternoon (and check on it live too), and I'll see what happens if I DVR a re-run of original programming like Wilfred and/or Louie tonight. But ultimately if those look good, I won't really feel like I know for sure until a fresh Justified comes up in Primetime next week. 

Interesting question about the gateway. Would it apply given that 1) I haven't changed my gateway in > 1 year and 2) this problem with FX captions only cropped up in mid/late December? 

FWIW regarding Netflix, in the bottom half of 2012 I started seeing captions pretty consistently, though not quite universally yet. In fact they responded so fast to the settlement that it was almost suspicious. If it was so easy, why the resistance? I am a bit curious about this generally, because it seems to me that the quality of CC has declined quite noticably in the past 5 years where it had been ubiquitous (i.e. the old broadcast networks). And while you'd think that technology would only make CC better and cooler, it seems like all kinds of devices, software, content providers, carriers like Uverse, and streaming services are doing their darndest to sabotage it. (For instance, why the heck does HDMI disable native captions? How did that happen?).

Is there a beef? If so, what the heck? It seems like all the burden of CC is on the actual act of transcribing and placing it on the screen, not carriage.

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SF_Rachel, to respond to your previous post (#10). I don't really believe AT&T monitors closed captioning on U-verse channels to see if they are working or not. After working on these U-verse CC problems going on 3+ years it seems like it's a delayed reaction where they don't really act to fix a CC problem unless complaints are filed or it's brought to their attention in a forum. And agree, "content provider dependent" is one of their favorite buzz-words where it's the networks problems and not with U-verse TV. Below is a good example where a few years ago it took 2 months to fix the garbled closed captions on the MTV Network channels.

http://forums.att.com/t5/Features-and-How-To/Closed-captions/m-p/2243611#M85769

You should screen the FX channels closely to see if this was just a temporary loss of CC's or it's still occurring. It may help to note the date/time/program when the CC's are not working and I'll try to monitor some of their programming too.

Another thing you may want to try with CC problems on U-verse channels is to go to a previous or past channel and then back to the original one. Sometimes this brings the CC's more in sync w/the words spoken on certain programs or will even make the CC's appear where they didn't before. Go figure...

My question about changing out your RG should have been more about what model of DVR you have? I'd still reboot your RG every few weeks just so you know you have the latest updates installed. As can be seen below there was a problem with the CC's freezing and disappearing. This seemed to be a problem mainly with the older DVR's like the Moto 1225 but a Moto 2250 fixed this problem for the OP in the thread. The problem was also noted on the Moto 1200 STB's (set top boxes) but not on the wireless Cisco 7005. This is one of the reasons I pestered U-verse until I was upgraded to the 2250 DVR and a Cisco 7005 wireless receiver.

http://forums.att.com/t5/Receivers-Battery-Backup/Closed-Captions-freezing-and-then-disappearing/m-p...

Here's a real good technical explanation by SomeJoe over on Uverse Users on why you can't pass thought digital closed caption on the boxes when using a HDMI cable. It should be noted you can pass through the analog CC's in using analog connections if the CC's are embedded on the SD programs themselves. Unfortunately this is all that's required by the FCC as far as pass-through goes and most all users watch HD programs. (see post #4 by SomeJoe7777)

http://www.uverseusers.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=17078.0

I saw your post over in the below thread where nothing has been done about the easier access to CC's. I'll be making some phone calls early this coming week to see what happened to the latest update which was supposed be released by the end of 2012. I like the way you outlined the extremely frustrating process of reaching the CC's with 23 clicks of the remote (#11 post in this thread). It may be better served over there is you would like to copy/paste/post it.

http://forums.att.com/t5/Features-and-How-To/Closed-Caption-Access-Formal-Complaint/m-p/3399625#M981...

Good luck and keep us posted. I'll be doing the same.

[SF_Rachel]

thanks, Uniblurb. As of this week FX captions are back on all the programming I've checked out. 

[Uniblurb3 ACE - Guru]

Good deal Rachel, glad the CC's are working again on FX, and thanks for letting us know!