10-02-2012 12:55:07 PM
new to uverse, Game Lag and Intermittent Video Freeze
I have been working thru the issues on my own and things seem to have stabilized to the point that things are marginally annoying
What's been done to date:
installer came out and Tested my household wireing using a fluke tested and certified my household wireing (AT&T's standards must be pretty low)
At my Phone Service Box (AT&t Dmarc) Disconnected all wireing and Ran a new, Dedicated CAT6 line to where my RG is installed being careful to avoid all obvious sources of RF interferance
Things are better service has stablized video freeze usually once a night, Game Lag who knows I only hear it when it is very bad
Week 2 Weekend - Video freezing on and off on staurday and noticable Game lag, Equipment reset, normal occasional video Freeze
Present - Posting to Community
lastnight I reset my counters and will continue to post the updates
How does my Bitloading look? from Everything I read It looks like I have a bridge TAP but I know for a fact that there isn't one on the CPE side as I ran a brand new Cat6 and disconnected everything else from the CPE side of the Demarc and I am not back feeding Dialtone
HDVR - Coax
STB#1 - Coax
STB#2 - Wireless (nothing else is using Wireless in my household)
I have Internet (12mb) and Phone (1 line) service as well
Solved! Go to Solution.
10-03-2012 06:23:04 AM
I believe that I see evidence of a line problem known as a bridge tap in your Bit Loading graph. Since your error rate is low, it is probably going to be hard to convince technical support that you still have a line problem that needs looking at. But I've seen other instances where the user was having various problems with a bridge tap, but no increase in errors.
I'd suggest that you click on this link to send a PM to Alex, one of the AT&T Community Managers, for further assistance.
10-04-2012 11:44:19 AM
Thanks for the response, Yesterday I read the RF troubleshooting article and my next test will be to cut the power to my house, Reset the Gateway and take a look at my bitloading. I’ll submit my pretest error and my new Bitloading. I am making sure that there is no possible way that this could be my problem, because experience has taught me (as a Customer and Technician) is the more you protest and complain the more likely it is when the experts come out that problem is yours (and then you slap your forehead).
Simple diagram of my understanding of the Uverse connection to my house
<------------------------ CPE | Service Provider --------------------------------------------------
[RG] <--Copper (VDSL)-->[Service Box] <--Copper(VDSL)-->[Steet Box]<--Copper(VDSL)-->[Uvers Node] <--Fiber-->
According to my understanding everything is home runs and cross connects so there is not much chance for a bridge tap
If I am able to rule out RF, What could the problem be?
Bad Service box, bad copper to My House
What else am I missing as all the Uverse stuff is new in my area
10-04-2012 02:14:42 PM - edited 10-04-2012 02:17:13 PM
Normally how bridge taps originate is that POTS historically has been distributed as discrete pairs in big 50 pair bundle cables. At the pedestal behind your house, your pair (in addition to being connected to the drop to your NID) could continue on in a cable bundle to the next pedestal, and the next and the next.
For POTS, this doesn't matter (your ears will never hear the problem, even a 56K modem can live with it pretty well). And so, installers would not cut the pair off at the pedestal so if you disconnected, they could use that pair to service someone further down the cable at a later date using that same pair.
For VDSL2 (and ADSL, really), it does matter. The signal from the VRAD splits at your pedstal, runs to the end of the cable, doesn't find a terminating resistance and bounces back off the end. That bounced back signal arrives at your house later interfering with new signals just arriving at the same frequencies. The same thing occurs with signals coming from your RG: they get to the pedestal and go both to the VRAD and to the end of the cable and bounce back to the VRAD a bit later.
Or, it could be that your pair is that extension of a pair that is still sitting unused connected to someone else's NID, but going unused because they've switched to the local cable company's VOIP. The same bounce effect can happen here.
And these extra lengths are also good as an antenna to pick up RF energy from local AM radio and HAM operators. Or, an unterminated pair going to a neighbor's house could be transfering crap on to your line via crosstalk; it happens more than you think.
Anyway, there are solutions: chokes, proper grounding, removing bridge taps, etc. Once you determine where the problem is.
10-05-2012 09:56:48 AM
Thanks for the Schooling on Uverse in a circa 1940's build-out neighborhood.
being a technical person I have this uhealthy need to understand how things work and desire near perfection.
I like the feeling that I have isolated as much as possible before I call in the experts so there little or No possibility for a headslap moment, I've heard it causes brian damage and the world dosn't need anymore brain damaged techs :-)
and just for the record, I'll post the results of my RF test
10-05-2012 05:59:29 PM
Just finished testing for RF interferance by shuting on my houses main power and resetting the RG
here is my 5 day errors
and her is my bitwave and stats with the power off
looks like the bridge-tag is deffinatly outside of my house
the interesting thins is my max rate is 61,544 power off and power on 60,876
i guess my next stop is PM Alex
10-06-2012 06:43:32 AM
Well, turning off the power to everything else in your house certainly removes it as a source of RF interference. However, depending on how your home is wired, you could have something like a bridge tap in your home.
I do not believe that is so, given your Bitloading graph. If the installer ran a home run from the NID to your RG, then forget this problem anyway. I do think it's time to call in the cavalry.
10-08-2012 11:11:47 AM
just to keep everyone in the loop who may be following this and thanks JefferMC,
Today I Called the 800# and I am scheduled for an appointment! They gave the line about if something is found (on the CPE side) there could be a $100 charge. Since I am a new customer and they certified the install there is no way(in H***) I'll pay anything as I feel it is their responsibility to get me running acceptably.
But I am getting myself all worked up before anything has happened. It just those First Line Phone Representatives, I think they are trained to upset people(P***-OFF) and scare them with the possibility of charges just to keep the people with livable problems off the line and out of the system
I informed the ATT representative that I been working with the ATT Support Community and we traced the problem to outside my house, the rep didn't much care, ran a test and said "I see some Line Issues" and scheduled an appointment.
So I am guessing (judging by a majority of posts) that I will be getting an In-House guy to come out and verify what I have done with the community and agree that there is a bridge tap and that a different guy will need to come out to fix
ARG!, I hope not
just to be fair to AT&T, NO charges will be charged for the visit. It’s just that there is a potential for a $100 charge depending on what is found
A Note to AT&T:
You should have a place to note that I have been working with the community and link it to the SR Ticket or at the very least import in any relevant info like the UVRealtime data. Doing that provides a picture over time (In my case 4 weeks) which could be useful to the Field Tech. So they dont just run some simple tests and change the RG hoping that will pacify me
also your vulgarity Filter really changes the tone of a message!
And so the saga continues…
10-12-2012 12:56:51 PM
The AT&T Tech came out within the appointment window, he had already ran an OTDR before coming to the house so he was prepared but he was also ready to listen to what I’ve done, and I showed him the UVRealtime (He had never seen this tool before)
Comment to AT&T:your field techs should be familiar with UVrealtime as that is what we are using to figure out what is going on when we have problems
He said the OTDR had a bridge tap at 75’ I told him I was a CAT6 direct run back to the Demarc and at present I wasn’t backfeeding because I didn’t want to confuse the issue
And the I new for a fact that there wasn’t a tap on my side. We went to the Demarc and he opened up the AT&T side and found that one of the wires was not properly tied down and that was most likely the problem. He also didn’t like the crimped connectors and asked if I’d like him to remove them as he has seen weird issues with them. I went with his recommendations. He rescanned the link back to the node and found no Bridge taps
He tested out in-house cables and said we were good, but he recommended changing out the patch cable to the WIFI WAP as the one provided is junk and you will see issues
So far no problems but the real test will be the weekend
I have included the UVrealtime data just for the record. AT&T says no bridge taps! But it looks like there is one but who care if it works stable
10-12-2012 01:08:31 PM
I'm glad you had a positive experience with the tech. While your bitloading graph looks pretty much the same (and still has some wierd "valleys" or nulls), your error stats are looking much better.
Let's hope for continue good experience.
10-16-2012 02:34:42 PM
It appears that my uverse journey is at an end, so I am posting my errors since last post and it appears that my VDSL is clean although I am still baffeled by the dips in my bitloading as they are usually signs of bridge taps but AT&T says there is nothing and I also tested with the power off (with minimal change to the Bitloading) so it can't be that, well i guess we'll never know
so long and thanks for all the fish!
10-17-2012 06:21:34 AM
Did you ever send a PM to Alex, one of the AT&T Community Managers, for assitance?
He can apparently get techs sent out who will work to solve the problem rather than just throw up their hands when the basic tests come up clean. I would at least try his team before you give up.
10-17-2012 10:22:06 AM
I'll send and email right now
10-18-2012 06:46:24 PM
got contacted by an AT&T Employee and they want me to do some testing with the Tier ? Rep on the phone
so more to come
I'll the the community know what they want me to do for referance
10-22-2012 09:57:47 AM
Talked to a AT&T representative and he said that I have a tape at 75’ (my guess is from the Residential Gateway) I informed him that I ran a brand new cable and it is a homerun and I am currently not backfeeding dial tone to the house (again I do not want to confuse the issues)
AT&T had me move the Residential Gateway and connect directly to the diagnostic port on the AT&T Service box. Once the line is up he retested the line and there were no bridge taps
The final conclusion is that if my service continues to be problematic, I’d need my AT&T Service box to be replaced
I have one more test I can try if I feel like it, Since I am old school and it’s just as easy to run 2 cables as it is to run 1 cable. My very last test will be to grab my crimpers and a couple RJ11’s and terminate the extra cable and connect directly to the diagnostic port .
10-29-2012 07:28:05 PM
I just completed my testing using my extra cable
RG<----->RJ45(EIA-TIA568B)<---Cat6----->RJ11c4 [w/g,b,w/b,g]--->test/diag port on the NID
so we have diffenitly proven that it is the NID. So what's next, will AT&T want to replace my NID? Should I have my NID replaced?
Throught this process, i noticed that everytime we made a change my distance from the Vrad went down by 100' (I wish I had a distance before i ran a new cable)
10-30-2012 10:12:12 AM - edited 10-30-2012 10:12:58 AM
While connected this way, are all issues with your service resolved? If not, we're still looking for the problem. If so, then I'd contact the community manager you were working with and tell him what you did.
If you don't have a direct contact channel for him, then use this Customer Service link to send a Private Message (PM) to the AT&T customer service team to let them know what's going on. Reference any ticket number you may have.
10-30-2012 11:23:48 AM
long story short,
the community manager consulted with I&R manager?
he verified what I was doing but questioned the use of RJ45's - that is a discussion for another day
feeling confident with the previous diagnostic sessions results, pointing to the NID as being bad and since I ran an extra cable to the RG
all that is necessary was crimp a rj11c4 on the end (of the extra cable) and connect to the NID diag port
Low and behold - NO MORE BRIDGE-TAPS and my distance to the VRAD when down to 800'
the community manager stated that "this is by no means an AT&T recommended configuration/solution"
he also said that "if it is working and is stable you may want to live with it" as AT&T dosn't like to change out NIDs and this will involve the UVERSE side of the house initiating a service ticket to the POTS guys and then when complete back to the UVERSE to certify service. He felt there is alot that could go wrong in this process
So my question is to change my NID or not that is the question?
10-31-2012 06:17:46 AM
If it were me, I'd probably live with it, though I agree that it looks like your NID is bad and needs replacement.
I guess it depends on your tolerance for dealing with AT&T until they can "get it right."