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Posted Feb 23, 2014
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NAT problems with X Box

I've been reading threads on similar topics, but they are mostly over my head...lol. My son began having problems with his NAT settings on his X Box 360 recently, and I only realized after I started researching this that it's probably because he got an X Box One for Christmas and has both set up on our network.  He just thinks our router is crap and keeps threatening to throw it through a wall.  Suffice it to say that we are both clueless about the mysteries of network and router settings.   We have a Pace 3801hgv.  Please, dumb down your instructions to a very basic level for me on how to fix this issue and bring peace between my son and our router.  Thanks!

I've been reading threads on similar topics, but they are mostly over my head...lol. My son began having problems with his NAT settings on his X Box 360 recently, and I only realized after I started researching this that it's probably because he got an X Box One for Christmas and has both set up on our network.  He just thinks our router is crap and keeps threatening to throw it through a wall.  Suffice it to say that we are both clueless about the mysteries of network and router settings.   We have a Pace 3801hgv.  Please, dumb down your instructions to a very basic level for me on how to fix this issue and bring peace between my son and our router.  Thanks!

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Feb 23, 2014 9:29:22 PM
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Edited by julywashere on Feb 23, 2014 at 9:39:19 PM

Yes, the Xboxes could be connected wirelessly to the router. Wireless N routers normally have better range than Wireless G routers, and allow for faster maximum speeds (within the local area network), so it would likely benefit your other wireless equipment.

The U-Verse Wireless Receiver doesn't rely on your RG's wireless function, it instead relies on the 5GHz Access Point that is connected to your RG.

Having two different Wi-Fi networks operating so closely together may cause unnecessary interference, so it's a good idea to explore the option of disabling the Wireless function of your RG if you're getting poor performance from your third-party router. Regardless, if you should keep both networks enabled, the one of the routers may require a change in channel. (I believe the RG will automatically attempt to adjust to the best available channel.) 

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NAT problems with X Box

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Feb 23, 2014 2:11:37 AM
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Your Residential Gateway does not have UPnP and due to this, X-box live will often find itself as NAT Moderate. When you have two Xboxes behind the same router, one of them will often find itself as NAT Strict. A UPnP capable router will allow one Xbox to detect that the ports are being used, and use alternate ports so both are NAT open. (In rare-cases NAT-moderate.) UPnP is a security nightmare, however it is necessary for some uses.

The truth is, the best suggestion is for you to acquire a third party router that supports UPnP, and set it in DMZ+ mode. This will allow the router to handle the UPnP ports. Thus, both Xboxes will be able to coexist.

The set-up can get a bit complicated, especially because you'll have to figure out how to change the settings on your third party router. Here's a detailed post to the rest instructions. http://forums.att.com/t5/Residential-Gateway/U-verse-for-BUSINESS-2Wire-3600HGV-bridge-mode-or-anoth...
Your Residential Gateway does not have UPnP and due to this, X-box live will often find itself as NAT Moderate. When you have two Xboxes behind the same router, one of them will often find itself as NAT Strict. A UPnP capable router will allow one Xbox to detect that the ports are being used, and use alternate ports so both are NAT open. (In rare-cases NAT-moderate.) UPnP is a security nightmare, however it is necessary for some uses.

The truth is, the best suggestion is for you to acquire a third party router that supports UPnP, and set it in DMZ+ mode. This will allow the router to handle the UPnP ports. Thus, both Xboxes will be able to coexist.

The set-up can get a bit complicated, especially because you'll have to figure out how to change the settings on your third party router. Here's a detailed post to the rest instructions. http://forums.att.com/t5/Residential-Gateway/U-verse-for-BUSINESS-2Wire-3600HGV-bridge-mode-or-another-AT-amp/m-p/2707755#M182

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Feb 23, 2014 5:03:06 PM
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OK, I felt a breeze as that flew right over my head...lol. Seriously though, please forgive my ignorance, but would it be possible to give me very basic, specific instructions?  Is there a particular model router I should look at?  Where would I connect it?  The gateway is in my living room and the X Boxes are operated wirelessly from a bedroom...I swear I'm not stupid, I just have very little experience with routers and network settings.  Thanks again...

OK, I felt a breeze as that flew right over my head...lol. Seriously though, please forgive my ignorance, but would it be possible to give me very basic, specific instructions?  Is there a particular model router I should look at?  Where would I connect it?  The gateway is in my living room and the X Boxes are operated wirelessly from a bedroom...I swear I'm not stupid, I just have very little experience with routers and network settings.  Thanks again...

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Feb 23, 2014 7:54:03 PM
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Edited by julywashere on Feb 23, 2014 at 7:55:12 PM

I apologize. I'll explain what NAT and UPnP are and why they're important (in basic terms, which may not be fully accurate, but it gives you an idea of what's going on), this is for your understanding and benefit. (Though, if you'd rather not read it you can skip to Acquiring a router.) 

 

NAT - Network Address Translation (More specific example for our use)

NAT is, in a way, the method by which multiple devices on your network can connect to the internet using one public IP address. On the internet, only your public IP address identifies your network. When you want to visit a website, the request goes out a random port from your computer to your router (ex port 23273), your router then forwards the request through it's own port (ex port 80), the request is routed through your ISP to the designated server, the server receives your request via it's own port (ex port 80), acknowleges the request and relays data back to your router. Your router receives a packet on port 23273 from the website, your router then has to route the data back to your own computer, through that port. When NAT is open, any device on the internet can send packets to your router's port 23273, and it will go to your device. NAT-open is optimal for Xbox Live, because multiple devices will want to connect to your Xbox during multiplayer gaming. (Xbox can make-up for NAT-moderate devices if the other Xboxes are NAT-open.) NAT-Moderate will only let the request come from tbe same host but any port. NAT-Strict will only let the requests coming from an IP address with the required port.

 

Examples: Think of your computer as a business. The host sends their employee's to go find guests. NAT-Open as the main enterance to a business. Anyone is able to come in and go out, no invitation needed. NAT-Moderate is the employee's lounge. Any employee's with an employee ID can go in. NAT-Strict is the Restricted Area - Only the ID matching the Restricted Area's Access ID can go in. 

 

UPnP - Universal Plug-n-Play

UPnP is a technology standard that will allow a device (in this case, the Xbox) to connect to a network and make itself known to other devices. (Think of your Xbox as being at a party where people are wearing name-tags.) This is important because by default, Xbox uses the same ports across every Xbox. Since the ports are being used by one Xbox, the other Xbox can't use them. NAT-open allows the devices within the Network to use UPnP to open ports. When UPnP is enabled, one Xbox see's the other using those ports and determines that it can use other ports. NAT-moderate means that certain ports are open, but devices can't use UPnP to open any other ports. NAT-strict has no statically open ports.

 

Acquiring a Third Party Router

If you choose to go this route, plenty third-party routers have UPnP. I personally have had experience with the D-Link 615 (You may be able to find this one for <$25), D-Link 655 (This one was the one I used the longest, I loved it. ~$70), Netgear Range Plus WNR1000 (This one features a Lifetime Warranty ~$25), Netgear WNR2500, and the Netgear WNR3500L (Unfortunately this one fell off a shelf the first week, while I had it it was terrific. ~$50 Also features Lifetime Warranty). A benefit to all of these is that they're Wireless N devices. (N150-N300 - this means that they can reach higher maximum speeds when communicating with other devices on your network, than your RG.)

 

Once you've acquired your third party router, follow the "Getting Started" Instructions to connect the router to your computer. (For configuration.) These intructions come from the post I linked earlier, but I've changed some of the wording. 

 

  1. You'll have to go through the Setup phase on your router. Both include software that will help you get started. You'll have to select an option that says Dynamic IP address automatically assigned by your provider (some routers's may list this as a "Cable/Other" connection), or DHCP assigned. (The wording varies by device.)
  2. Connect the Ethernet Cable that came with your router into the WAN port (most likely labeled Internet, possibly WAN.) and the other cable into your RG's LAN ports (one of the ones with a number under it.) 
  3. Restart your router so it can get an IP address. (This is so that your RG knows it's connected.)
  4. Connect to your RG, if you're still connected to your router. Then navigate to the Residential Gateway Portal.
  5. From here's I'll have to direct you again to the post made here. and follow the instructions from Number 4, onward. It's pretty straight-forward. (The Motorola NVG589, I have, doesn't seem to have DMZ+)

(You'll have to connect the X-boxes to the Wireless Router, and it's a good idea to disable the Wireless function on your RG.) 

I apologize. I'll explain what NAT and UPnP are and why they're important (in basic terms, which may not be fully accurate, but it gives you an idea of what's going on), this is for your understanding and benefit. (Though, if you'd rather not read it you can skip to Acquiring a router.) 

 

NAT - Network Address Translation (More specific example for our use)

NAT is, in a way, the method by which multiple devices on your network can connect to the internet using one public IP address. On the internet, only your public IP address identifies your network. When you want to visit a website, the request goes out a random port from your computer to your router (ex port 23273), your router then forwards the request through it's own port (ex port 80), the request is routed through your ISP to the designated server, the server receives your request via it's own port (ex port 80), acknowleges the request and relays data back to your router. Your router receives a packet on port 23273 from the website, your router then has to route the data back to your own computer, through that port. When NAT is open, any device on the internet can send packets to your router's port 23273, and it will go to your device. NAT-open is optimal for Xbox Live, because multiple devices will want to connect to your Xbox during multiplayer gaming. (Xbox can make-up for NAT-moderate devices if the other Xboxes are NAT-open.) NAT-Moderate will only let the request come from tbe same host but any port. NAT-Strict will only let the requests coming from an IP address with the required port.

 

Examples: Think of your computer as a business. The host sends their employee's to go find guests. NAT-Open as the main enterance to a business. Anyone is able to come in and go out, no invitation needed. NAT-Moderate is the employee's lounge. Any employee's with an employee ID can go in. NAT-Strict is the Restricted Area - Only the ID matching the Restricted Area's Access ID can go in. 

 

UPnP - Universal Plug-n-Play

UPnP is a technology standard that will allow a device (in this case, the Xbox) to connect to a network and make itself known to other devices. (Think of your Xbox as being at a party where people are wearing name-tags.) This is important because by default, Xbox uses the same ports across every Xbox. Since the ports are being used by one Xbox, the other Xbox can't use them. NAT-open allows the devices within the Network to use UPnP to open ports. When UPnP is enabled, one Xbox see's the other using those ports and determines that it can use other ports. NAT-moderate means that certain ports are open, but devices can't use UPnP to open any other ports. NAT-strict has no statically open ports.

 

Acquiring a Third Party Router

If you choose to go this route, plenty third-party routers have UPnP. I personally have had experience with the D-Link 615 (You may be able to find this one for <$25), D-Link 655 (This one was the one I used the longest, I loved it. ~$70), Netgear Range Plus WNR1000 (This one features a Lifetime Warranty ~$25), Netgear WNR2500, and the Netgear WNR3500L (Unfortunately this one fell off a shelf the first week, while I had it it was terrific. ~$50 Also features Lifetime Warranty). A benefit to all of these is that they're Wireless N devices. (N150-N300 - this means that they can reach higher maximum speeds when communicating with other devices on your network, than your RG.)

 

Once you've acquired your third party router, follow the "Getting Started" Instructions to connect the router to your computer. (For configuration.) These intructions come from the post I linked earlier, but I've changed some of the wording. 

 

  1. You'll have to go through the Setup phase on your router. Both include software that will help you get started. You'll have to select an option that says Dynamic IP address automatically assigned by your provider (some routers's may list this as a "Cable/Other" connection), or DHCP assigned. (The wording varies by device.)
  2. Connect the Ethernet Cable that came with your router into the WAN port (most likely labeled Internet, possibly WAN.) and the other cable into your RG's LAN ports (one of the ones with a number under it.) 
  3. Restart your router so it can get an IP address. (This is so that your RG knows it's connected.)
  4. Connect to your RG, if you're still connected to your router. Then navigate to the Residential Gateway Portal.
  5. From here's I'll have to direct you again to the post made here. and follow the instructions from Number 4, onward. It's pretty straight-forward. (The Motorola NVG589, I have, doesn't seem to have DMZ+)

(You'll have to connect the X-boxes to the Wireless Router, and it's a good idea to disable the Wireless function on your RG.) 

Re: NAT problems with X Box

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Feb 23, 2014 8:46:23 PM
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Thank you!  Starting to make more sense...to clarify:  Will I be able to connect the X Boxes wirelessly to the router?  And, do you mean disable the wireless function of the RG forever?  Would I then have to run all my wireless equipment (tablets, laptops, cell phones, wireless uverse receiver) through the new router?

Thank you!  Starting to make more sense...to clarify:  Will I be able to connect the X Boxes wirelessly to the router?  And, do you mean disable the wireless function of the RG forever?  Would I then have to run all my wireless equipment (tablets, laptops, cell phones, wireless uverse receiver) through the new router?

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Feb 23, 2014 9:29:22 PM
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Edited by julywashere on Feb 23, 2014 at 9:39:19 PM

Yes, the Xboxes could be connected wirelessly to the router. Wireless N routers normally have better range than Wireless G routers, and allow for faster maximum speeds (within the local area network), so it would likely benefit your other wireless equipment.

The U-Verse Wireless Receiver doesn't rely on your RG's wireless function, it instead relies on the 5GHz Access Point that is connected to your RG.

Having two different Wi-Fi networks operating so closely together may cause unnecessary interference, so it's a good idea to explore the option of disabling the Wireless function of your RG if you're getting poor performance from your third-party router. Regardless, if you should keep both networks enabled, the one of the routers may require a change in channel. (I believe the RG will automatically attempt to adjust to the best available channel.) 

Yes, the Xboxes could be connected wirelessly to the router. Wireless N routers normally have better range than Wireless G routers, and allow for faster maximum speeds (within the local area network), so it would likely benefit your other wireless equipment.

The U-Verse Wireless Receiver doesn't rely on your RG's wireless function, it instead relies on the 5GHz Access Point that is connected to your RG.

Having two different Wi-Fi networks operating so closely together may cause unnecessary interference, so it's a good idea to explore the option of disabling the Wireless function of your RG if you're getting poor performance from your third-party router. Regardless, if you should keep both networks enabled, the one of the routers may require a change in channel. (I believe the RG will automatically attempt to adjust to the best available channel.) 

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Mar 2, 2014 11:58:52 AM
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Thanks so much for your patient replies...I will look for one of the routers you suggested and try this out. I'll be back if I run into problems!
Thanks so much for your patient replies...I will look for one of the routers you suggested and try this out. I'll be back if I run into problems!

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Hopefully you won't run into any problems, but if you do we're here to try to help! Good luck!
Hopefully you won't run into any problems, but if you do we're here to try to help! Good luck!

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Mar 11, 2014 7:31:20 PM
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OK...good and bad news...I bought the DIR 655 and set it up yesterday.  I used an ethernet cable and my laptop to configure the gateway and the router.  Followed all the instructions, and disabled the wireless fuction on the gateway.  Then, I unplugged the cable from my laptop and tried to connect it wirelessly...not happening.  I've tried everything I can think of to get it to work, but nothing is working. I've successfully gotten 2 tablets and my cell phone set up wirelessly, and my son has set up both X Boxes wirelessly.  Today, he turned on the X Box One and the NAT type was set to strict.  He hasn't had any problems playing a game yet, but...?  

 

So, what am I missing?  Any idea why my laptop won't connect wirelessly?  Any reason why the X Box would still go to strict?

 

Thanks,

Rhonda

OK...good and bad news...I bought the DIR 655 and set it up yesterday.  I used an ethernet cable and my laptop to configure the gateway and the router.  Followed all the instructions, and disabled the wireless fuction on the gateway.  Then, I unplugged the cable from my laptop and tried to connect it wirelessly...not happening.  I've tried everything I can think of to get it to work, but nothing is working. I've successfully gotten 2 tablets and my cell phone set up wirelessly, and my son has set up both X Boxes wirelessly.  Today, he turned on the X Box One and the NAT type was set to strict.  He hasn't had any problems playing a game yet, but...?  

 

So, what am I missing?  Any idea why my laptop won't connect wirelessly?  Any reason why the X Box would still go to strict?

 

Thanks,

Rhonda

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