f anyone wants toRe: AT&T To Impose Caps, Overages [ Edited ]

[CTEL08]

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jmsherman8 wrote:

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mogamer wrote:

If anyone is looking for an OTA dvr, there are some options other than Tivo and a PC PVR.

Walmart.com has a Magnavox dvd recorder with a 500 gig hard drive that has ATSC and Quam tuners in it. It's sd only, but you can easily burn a dvd of the recording. Channel Master sells an Echostar (Dish Network) made ota HD dvr. It has dual tuners so you can record two shows at once. You can even watch a recorded show while recording two other shows. I've seen it at both Amazon and walmart.com.

These are two good options for leaving a pay tv service and going to Netflix/Hulu/OTA tv veiwing.

PS: I couldn't get anything posted using IE9. So there are some problems with IE9.

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Wow that channelmaster sounds nice. Do you know how big the hard drive is on it?

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The cm does look like a good way to go if you looking for the easiest way to get started recording OTA.

but the hard drive would only hold 30 hrs HD when i was looking into them 6 months ago or so

where as for the same price i picked up a tuner and a pc with a 1tb harddrive,

100 hrs hd = OH HALEZ YAA! 

and i only had to bare that expense b/c i was a mac person, i didnt own a pc. the vast majority uverse subs already have a windows media center pc at their disposal waiting to be fully utilized.

[mogamer]

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sirmaru wrote:

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dhascall wrote:

Cap T-Plus day 3 and still no working meter!  I have to say again, that no official response from AT&T managers is quite appaling.  Yes I understand that this is a P2P forum but there are some mighty upset folk, here.  I do not know if I should be concerned about caps, given my usage pattern but I would expect that they would have 6 months or so worth of data per subscriber available to allieviate fears but NOTHING.

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If you look several posts above this one there is a link posted to another Forum.  In that Forum one person in Indianopolis, IN, says his ATT bandwidth meter is working fine and another person located in Nashville, TN, says his is working intermitently.

Thus, IN MY OPINION, by the end of next week we will probably all have working ATT bandwith meters available.

Also, I heard Reed Hastings of Netflix speak in a different forum and he said in a few years he will be streaming movies with 8 times the quality of today's HD movies and as I GUESS from his comments bandwidth compression will be a big item then.  Thus, we may be using 1% of today's bandwidth in the near future with TEN TIMES the output.  These new ATT limits will soon be a distant memory of the past.

I am sure new Residential Gateways are in our future sporting higher speeds and higher decompression capabilities.

As I stated earler in this thread the technology developments are going to come from ATT and others fast and furious and we should all just enjoy them and not worry about small fee changes up AND DOWN.

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WOW! You sir are in full spin mode.

[kshusker]

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sirmaru wrote:

ATT had mentioned that this new practice was adopted after a USER SURVEY requested it.  If I had been contacted on that survery, I would have voted in favor of usage based fees.  Evidently a majority did vote that way or we would not be discussing it here at all.

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I doubt AT&T did a survey and asked customers if they would like bandwidth caps. 

Or if they did, they probably asked a (mis)leading question like politicians do when they have push polls...

"Do you think greedy bandwidth hogs should pays more the abusing the AT&T network and hurting honest customers like yourself? Yes or no?"

I think a more honest poll question would have been "Do you approve or disapprove of having a running meter whenever you use AT&T internet, and do you approve of being charged more for the same level of service you currently receive?"

[jmsherman8]

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sirmaru wrote:

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dhascall wrote:

Cap T-Plus day 3 and still no working meter!  I have to say again, that no official response from AT&T managers is quite appaling.  Yes I understand that this is a P2P forum but there are some mighty upset folk, here.  I do not know if I should be concerned about caps, given my usage pattern but I would expect that they would have 6 months or so worth of data per subscriber available to allieviate fears but NOTHING.

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If you look several posts above this one there is a link posted to another Forum.  In that Forum one person in Indianopolis, IN, says his ATT bandwidth meter is working fine and another person located in Nashville, TN, says his is working intermitently.

Thus, IN MY OPINION, by the end of next week we will probably all have working ATT bandwith meters available.

Also, I heard Reed Hastings of Netflix speak in a different forum and he said in a few years he will be streaming movies with 8 times the quality of today's HD movies and as I GUESS from his comments bandwidth compression will be a big item then.  Thus, we may be using 1% of today's bandwidth in the near future with TEN TIMES the output.  These new ATT limits will soon be a distant memory of the past.

I am sure new Residential Gateways are in our future sporting higher speeds and higher decompression capabilities.

As I stated earler in this thread the technology developments are going to come from ATT and others fast and furious and we should all just enjoy them and not worry about small fee changes up AND DOWN.

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maru, that is ludicrous...do you even have a clue how these technologies work? Believe me you will have far more than 10 times the consumption years from now. This is why hard drive capacity started in megabytes, went to gigabytes and is now growing  terabytes. Back in 1998 the largest commercial database in the WORLD was the Lexus Nexus database. At that time it comprised 9 terabytes of information storage. At the time an Unheard of amount. I am now sitting here looking at my PERSONAL CLOUD ARRAY which currently has over 4.5 TBs of storage connected to it, and by the end of the week it will be at 5.5 TB. This is not a difficult thing to do. It required a $99 component that I bought at bestbuy on sale for $50. This is my answer to network storage capacity. My point is my personal NAS is half the size of the 1998 lexus nexus database which at that time was THE LARGEST COMMERCIAL DATABASE IN THE WORLD. And you think filesizes are going down for internet transfer over the next few years? I think not.

[sirmaru]

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jmsherman8 wrote:

maru, that is ludicrous...do you even have a clue how these technologies work? Believe me you will have far more than 10 times the consumption years from now. This is why hard drive capacity started in megabytes, went to gigabytes and is now growing  terabytes. Back in 1998 the largest commercial database in the WORLD was the Lexus Nexus database. At that time it comprised 9 terabytes of information storage. At the time an Unheard of amount. I am now sitting here looking at my PERSONAL CLOUD ARRAY which currently has over 4.5 TBs of storage connected to it, and by the end of the week it will be at 5.5 TB. This is not a difficult thing to do. It required a $99 component that I bought at bestbuy on sale for $50. This is my answer to network storage capacity. My point is my personal NAS is half the size of the 1998 lexus nexus database which at that time was THE LARGEST COMMERCIAL DATABASE IN THE WORLD. And you think filesizes are going down for internet transfer over the next few years? I think not.

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I suggest you read the following:

"Broadcast International has developed CodecSys video compression technology to break the video bandwidth barrier. CodecSys is a family of ultra-high performance, video compression solutions, built on the industry’s first “future-proof” open software architecture. The CodecSys software suite ranges from market-specific solutions, such as H.264 encoding for the IPTV and Internet video markets, to the industry’s first Video Operating System (VOS), supporting multiple codecs and providing advanced transcoding capabilities for video re-purposing and media management.

CodecSys multi-codec software is patented video compression technology that reduces bandwidth needs by more than 80 percent for HD-quality video over satellite, cable, IP and wireless networks. By dramatically reducing video bandwidth requirements, CodecSys’s multi-codec software will enable a new generation of video applications — live streaming video over the Internet and via mobile devices. For existing applications such as HDTV over satellite or cable, CodecSys currently provides unprecedented price/performance benefits enabling multiple HDTV channels to be broadcast over the same media that currently support only single channels."

There are even more dramatic developments soon to be announced which I cannot post in a public forum.  It can also be relied that technology jumps in leaps and bounds and we are just at the tip of the compression iceberg.

I'm not posting links per the rules here but you can google and you will be amazed at what is happening.  Bandwidth needs will PLUNGE in the next few years even as the file sizes soar.  Right now its a race between bandwidth needs AND bandwidth compression and NO ONE can predict where all of this is taking us.

In any event ATT Uverse will be at the cutting edge just as they have been in the past.  That is why they tied for NUMBER ONE in the last Consumer Reports Survey of their own 70,000 subscribers 98% of whom probably use far less than the current 250 Gb per month cap.

[callmeox ACE - Wizard]

Riddle me this:

AT&T claims that the caps will only impact 2% of their customers and 98% of them are under the cap.  They have also been quoting an "average" use number that I don't recall offhand.  They would have to get this data from somewhere, right?  They wouldn't just be pulling these statistics from their behinds in order to spin the caps as a low impact change, would they? 

If they can generate usage reports that are solid enough to quote over and over in press releases and in interviews with the media, why can't they just slap a nice web interface on it and let us see our bandwidth use?

I think I know the answer and I don't like it one bit.

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

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sirmaru wrote:

I am sure new Residential Gateways are in our future sporting higher speeds and higher decompression capabilities.

As I stated earler in this thread the technology developments are going to come from ATT and others fast and furious and we should all just enjoy them and not worry about small fee changes up AND DOWN.

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The residential gateway does not do compression/decompression.  That's not part of it's job.  The mere fact that you believe that it does illustrates how little you understand this technology.

You post things like this in a vain attempt to "snow" other people on this forum, but you're too unaware of what you're saying to realize that other people on this forum are way smarter than you are and we know immediately when you're spouting falsehoods and claptrap.

CodecSys is nothing more than a combination of H.264 and some clever pre-compression smoothing techniques.  It's hardly anything innovative.  The U-Verse encoders made by Motorola do exactly the same thing.  Broadcast International claims that the bandwidth savings on an HD stream goes from 8 Mbps to 5 Mbps with their "new technology".  U-Verse is already doing basically that with a 5.5 Mbps video stream, and Netflix is doing even better with 3-4 Mbps streams.

The insinuation that you have some kind of insider knowledge is ridiculous.  You don't.  You have absolutely no idea what any future technology will bring, nor could you understand or explain it even if you did.

[sirmaru]

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callmeox wrote:

Riddle me this:

AT&T claims that the caps will only impact 2% of their customers and 98% of them are under the cap.  They have also been quoting an "average" use number that I don't recall offhand.  They would have to get this data from somewhere, right?  They wouldn't just be pulling these statistics from their behinds in order to spin the caps as a low impact change, would they? 

If they can generate usage reports that are solid enough to quote over and over in press releases and in interviews with the media, why can't they just slap a nice web interface on it and let us see our bandwidth use?

I think I know the answer and I don't like it one bit.

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I don't know how ATT got this information but there is a mathematical discipline called STATISTICS whereby it is possible to use a properly representative sample to get to a 95% confidence level of the attributes of an entire population.

@SomeJoe stated: " The insinuation that you have some kind of insider knowledge is ridiculous. You don't. You have absolutely no idea what any future technology will bring, nor could you understand or explain it even if you did."

I AGREE.  I am not technically oriented.  However,  I attend forums given by technology people and can google the internet.  I consider myself an educated technology INTERESTED consumer not associated with any company.

I happen to enjoy the use of technology and the latest and greatest gadgets and software.  Thus, I can comment and refute technical arguments made from a narrow view with a basis drawn from a wide view of history, technology and future possibliities.

Since I am not trying to promote any product as you are, I keep an independent view of the broadband issue and ATT's great possibilities to allow us to enjoy the coming future.

I also invest in a wide variety of companies and acquire knowledge from their operations as they share it with shareholders.

[dhascall ACE - Professor]

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mogamer wrote:

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sirmaru wrote:

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dhascall wrote:

Cap T-Plus day 3 and still no working meter!  I have to say again, that no official response from AT&T managers is quite appaling.  Yes I understand that this is a P2P forum but there are some mighty upset folk, here.  I do not know if I should be concerned about caps, given my usage pattern but I would expect that they would have 6 months or so worth of data per subscriber available to allieviate fears but NOTHING.

---

If you look several posts above this one there is a link posted to another Forum.  In that Forum one person in Indianopolis, IN, says his ATT bandwidth meter is working fine and another person located in Nashville, TN, says his is working intermitently.

Thus, IN MY OPINION, by the end of next week we will probably all have working ATT bandwith meters available.

Also, I heard Reed Hastings of Netflix speak in a different forum and he said in a few years he will be streaming movies with 8 times the quality of today's HD movies and as I GUESS from his comments bandwidth compression will be a big item then.  Thus, we may be using 1% of today's bandwidth in the near future with TEN TIMES the output.  These new ATT limits will soon be a distant memory of the past.

I am sure new Residential Gateways are in our future sporting higher speeds and higher decompression capabilities.

As I stated earler in this thread the technology developments are going to come from ATT and others fast and furious and we should all just enjoy them and not worry about small fee changes up AND DOWN.

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WOW! You sir are in full spin mode.

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Indeed - the issue isn't that some have it, some partially have it and some dpn't but I want to see them to provide some stats before the cap went in to validate this whole 2% junk.  It is just like going to the hosptal and getting a bill without a breakout - just a "trust us" philosophy.  Trust us?  Not me and I actually am a fan of the service.......

[callmeox ACE - Wizard]

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sirmaru wrote:

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callmeox wrote:

Riddle me this:

AT&T claims that the caps will only impact 2% of their customers and 98% of them are under the cap.  They have also been quoting an "average" use number that I don't recall offhand.  They would have to get this data from somewhere, right?  They wouldn't just be pulling these statistics from their behinds in order to spin the caps as a low impact change, would they? 

If they can generate usage reports that are solid enough to quote over and over in press releases and in interviews with the media, why can't they just slap a nice web interface on it and let us see our bandwidth use?

I think I know the answer and I don't like it one bit.

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I don't know how ATT got this information but there is a mathematical discipline called STATISTICS whereby it is possible to use a properly representative sample to get to a 95% confidence level of the attributes of an entire population.

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They must have measured the "representative sample" somehow, or did they resort to the sub discipline of statistics that is better known as making "stuff" up.

Just give us access to our data.

{Keep it Courteous}

[sirmaru]

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callmeox wrote:

They must have measured the "representative sample" somehow, or did they resort to the sub discipline of statistics that is better known as making "stuff" up.

Just give us access to our data.

I Google, therefore I smart...thanks for the laugh.

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BLOL.  I agree with EVERYONE in this thread that ATT's most grievous error in this entire episode was not having their bandwidth measurement site available to everyone of their customers BEFORE they even announced the new policy.

Had they done this, a "statistical" sample would have been unnecessary since the entire population would have had access to their own bandwidth usage data and so would ATT.  If the 98% number of unaffected customers was really true and known before the announcement, this thread would never have started at all.

But if things happened that way, think of all the fun all of us would have missed debating the as yet unknown bandwidth usage we all supposedly use.

[U-LostMe]

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sirmaru wrote:

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callmeox wrote:

They must have measured the "representative sample" somehow, or did they resort to the sub discipline of statistics that is better known as making "stuff" up.

Just give us access to our data.

I Google, therefore I smart...thanks for the laugh.

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BLOL.  I agree with EVERYONE in this thread that ATT's most grievous error in this entire episode was not having their bandwidth measurement site available to everyone of their customers BEFORE they even announced the new policy.

Had they done this, a "statistical" sample would have been unnecessary since the entire population would have had access to their own bandwidth usage data and so would ATT.  If the 98% number of unaffected customers was really true and known before the announcement, this thread would never have started at all.

But if things happened that way, think of all the fun all of us would have missed debating the as yet unknown bandwidth usage we all supposedly use.

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It's funny you would agree with something that only you and maybe a couple of others have said regarding the bandwidth meter avaialble before they announced the new policy.  Once again, your all inclusive references to the posters here is not correct. 

I'll let YOU look back and read what I have said, since I won't claim to speak for EVERYONE.  I have said I would leave because of usage limits being imposed.  It doesn't matter if I hit them today, tomorrow, next week, or sometime in distant future.  The bandwidth meter, if it had been available, would not have changed my mind whatsoever.  I do not agree with the usage limits and could care less if the bandwidth meter was ever rolled out.

What has been fun is reading you bury yourself with strawman arguements (please Google the term if you don't know what it means) and now you are claiming you are debating.  Again, you used "WE", but I don't see you actually debating, you just make claims and haven't backed them up.

[jmsherman8]

No bandwidth needs will go up as things like cloud computing become more prevalent. BTW H.264 has been around for at least 4 years that I know of...it isn't really new technology. And Compressions always come with a price on both ends of the scale. meaning the higher the compression level, the worse the video stream at each end... it is the difference between lossy and lossless formats. Also the cost of bandwidth has been in a freefall for years, so there is no reason for them to be charging more for less, other than simple greed or laziness or both.

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sirmaru wrote:

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jmsherman8 wrote:

maru, that is ludicrous...do you even have a clue how these technologies work? Believe me you will have far more than 10 times the consumption years from now. This is why hard drive capacity started in megabytes, went to gigabytes and is now growing  terabytes. Back in 1998 the largest commercial database in the WORLD was the Lexus Nexus database. At that time it comprised 9 terabytes of information storage. At the time an Unheard of amount. I am now sitting here looking at my PERSONAL CLOUD ARRAY which currently has over 4.5 TBs of storage connected to it, and by the end of the week it will be at 5.5 TB. This is not a difficult thing to do. It required a $99 component that I bought at bestbuy on sale for $50. This is my answer to network storage capacity. My point is my personal NAS is half the size of the 1998 lexus nexus database which at that time was THE LARGEST COMMERCIAL DATABASE IN THE WORLD. And you think filesizes are going down for internet transfer over the next few years? I think not.

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I suggest you read the following:

"Broadcast International has developed CodecSys video compression technology to break the video bandwidth barrier. CodecSys is a family of ultra-high performance, video compression solutions, built on the industry’s first “future-proof” open software architecture. The CodecSys software suite ranges from market-specific solutions, such as H.264 encoding for the IPTV and Internet video markets, to the industry’s first Video Operating System (VOS), supporting multiple codecs and providing advanced transcoding capabilities for video re-purposing and media management.

CodecSys multi-codec software is patented video compression technology that reduces bandwidth needs by more than 80 percent for HD-quality video over satellite, cable, IP and wireless networks. By dramatically reducing video bandwidth requirements, CodecSys’s multi-codec software will enable a new generation of video applications — live streaming video over the Internet and via mobile devices. For existing applications such as HDTV over satellite or cable, CodecSys currently provides unprecedented price/performance benefits enabling multiple HDTV channels to be broadcast over the same media that currently support only single channels."

There are even more dramatic developments soon to be announced which I cannot post in a public forum.  It can also be relied that technology jumps in leaps and bounds and we are just at the tip of the compression iceberg.

I'm not posting links per the rules here but you can google and you will be amazed at what is happening.  Bandwidth needs will PLUNGE in the next few years even as the file sizes soar.  Right now its a race between bandwidth needs AND bandwidth compression and NO ONE can predict where all of this is taking us.

In any event ATT Uverse will be at the cutting edge just as they have been in the past.  That is why they tied for NUMBER ONE in the last Consumer Reports Survey of their own 70,000 subscribers 98% of whom probably use far less than the current 250 Gb per month cap.

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[jmsherman8]

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callmeox wrote:

Riddle me this:

AT&T claims that the caps will only impact 2% of their customers and 98% of them are under the cap.  They have also been quoting an "average" use number that I don't recall offhand.  They would have to get this data from somewhere, right?  They wouldn't just be pulling these statistics from their behinds in order to spin the caps as a low impact change, would they? 

If they can generate usage reports that are solid enough to quote over and over in press releases and in interviews with the media, why can't they just slap a nice web interface on it and let us see our bandwidth use?

I think I know the answer and I don't like it one bit.

---

I won't speculate on this...let me just say that I don't think it is actual scientific data and leave it at that. lol.

[jmsherman8]

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SomeJoe7777 wrote:

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sirmaru wrote:

I am sure new Residential Gateways are in our future sporting higher speeds and higher decompression capabilities.

As I stated earler in this thread the technology developments are going to come from ATT and others fast and furious and we should all just enjoy them and not worry about small fee changes up AND DOWN.

---

The residential gateway does not do compression/decompression.  That's not part of it's job.  The mere fact that you believe that it does illustrates how little you understand this technology.

You post things like this in a vain attempt to "snow" other people on this forum, but you're too unaware of what you're saying to realize that other people on this forum are way smarter than you are and we know immediately when you're spouting falsehoods and claptrap.

CodecSys is nothing more than a combination of H.264 and some clever pre-compression smoothing techniques.  It's hardly anything innovative.  The U-Verse encoders made by Motorola do exactly the same thing.  Broadcast International claims that the bandwidth savings on an HD stream goes from 8 Mbps to 5 Mbps with their "new technology".  U-Verse is already doing basically that with a 5.5 Mbps video stream, and Netflix is doing even better with 3-4 Mbps streams.

The insinuation that you have some kind of insider knowledge is ridiculous.  You don't.  You have absolutely no idea what any future technology will bring, nor could you understand or explain it even if you did.

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Joe,

  /agree!

[jmsherman8]

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Pake1000 wrote:

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sirmaru wrote:

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jmsherman8 wrote:

maru, that is ludicrous...do you even have a clue how these technologies work? Believe me you will have far more than 10 times the consumption years from now. This is why hard drive capacity started in megabytes, went to gigabytes and is now growing  terabytes. Back in 1998 the largest commercial database in the WORLD was the Lexus Nexus database. At that time it comprised 9 terabytes of information storage. At the time an Unheard of amount. I am now sitting here looking at my PERSONAL CLOUD ARRAY which currently has over 4.5 TBs of storage connected to it, and by the end of the week it will be at 5.5 TB. This is not a difficult thing to do. It required a $99 component that I bought at bestbuy on sale for $50. This is my answer to network storage capacity. My point is my personal NAS is half the size of the 1998 lexus nexus database which at that time was THE LARGEST COMMERCIAL DATABASE IN THE WORLD. And you think filesizes are going down for internet transfer over the next few years? I think not.

---

I suggest you read the following:

"Broadcast International has developed CodecSys video compression technology to break the video bandwidth barrier. CodecSys is a family of ultra-high performance, video compression solutions, built on the industry’s first “future-proof” open software architecture. The CodecSys software suite ranges from market-specific solutions, such as H.264 encoding for the IPTV and Internet video markets, to the industry’s first Video Operating System (VOS), supporting multiple codecs and providing advanced transcoding capabilities for video re-purposing and media management.

CodecSys multi-codec software is patented video compression technology that reduces bandwidth needs by more than 80 percent for HD-quality video over satellite, cable, IP and wireless networks. By dramatically reducing video bandwidth requirements, CodecSys’s multi-codec software will enable a new generation of video applications — live streaming video over the Internet and via mobile devices. For existing applications such as HDTV over satellite or cable, CodecSys currently provides unprecedented price/performance benefits enabling multiple HDTV channels to be broadcast over the same media that currently support only single channels."

There are even more dramatic developments soon to be announced which I cannot post in a public forum.  It can also be relied that technology jumps in leaps and bounds and we are just at the tip of the compression iceberg.

I'm not posting links per the rules here but you can google and you will be amazed at what is happening.  Bandwidth needs will PLUNGE in the next few years even as the file sizes soar.  Right now its a race between bandwidth needs AND bandwidth compression and NO ONE can predict where all of this is taking us.

In any event ATT Uverse will be at the cutting edge just as they have been in the past.  That is why they tied for NUMBER ONE in the last Consumer Reports Survey of their own 70,000 subscribers 98% of whom probably use far less than the current 250 Gb per month cap.

---

You sound exactly like a lobbyist and sorry, but bandwidth needs are going to continue to rise. We're "just at the tip of" what users will be using their connections for in 1 years, 5 year, 10 year, etc. time. There is a massive shift towards cloud computing happening and soon, people will want all their movies, music, and games on the go. That means each time a person wants to play or access their media, streaming will be required and that doesn't even account for the normal internet usage.

Also, AT&T is about as far from the cutting edge as you can get. South Korea and Japan are hitting a minimum of 5x AT&T's top speed and TEO of Lithuania just announce their broadband package. TEO's BASIC package will be 20 Mbps and their premium plan is 300 Mbps, at a cost of... drumroll please... $35/mo for the 300 Mbps package. Yeah, that's right. AT&T's best package cost 2x more for roughly 1/15 of the speed and this starts May 16th. AT&T might be second best in the US, but that is only because of the duopoly that exist to prevent alternatives from existing in most cities.

And now, let's quote the scum Mark Siegel himself:

"Our approach is based on customers' feedback," said Mark Siegel, spokesman for AT&T. "They told us that the people who use the most should pay more, and they also told us we should make it easy for them to track their usage. We think our approach addresses these concerns."

I'd like to see this so called "feedback". Surely the company sent out surveys asking their customers, but interestingly enough, no individuals on DSLReports or any other broadband website confirm this. Even AT&T's own PR group refuses to return phone calls when asked.

BTW, Netflix currently streams at about 1.5 Gb/hr for a 720p stream and stereo audio and 800 Mb/hr for SD (480p) and stereo audio. To get 1080p video, that's between 2-3x more data and then tack on 5.1 sound and you're exceeding 6 Gb/hr for their lowest quality 1080p video and lowest quality 5.1 sound. Even if they managed to scale it down to 4 Gb/hr, that still points out the flaw in your argument that broadband needs will plunge. Netflix and others will be increasing the bitrates, not decreasing.

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yep and the numbers on my RG support this too...

[jmsherman8]

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sirmaru wrote:

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callmeox wrote:

Riddle me this:

AT&T claims that the caps will only impact 2% of their customers and 98% of them are under the cap.  They have also been quoting an "average" use number that I don't recall offhand.  They would have to get this data from somewhere, right?  They wouldn't just be pulling these statistics from their behinds in order to spin the caps as a low impact change, would they? 

If they can generate usage reports that are solid enough to quote over and over in press releases and in interviews with the media, why can't they just slap a nice web interface on it and let us see our bandwidth use?

I think I know the answer and I don't like it one bit.

---

I don't know how ATT got this information but there is a mathematical discipline called STATISTICS whereby it is possible to use a properly representative sample to get to a 95% confidence level of the attributes of an entire population.

@SomeJoe stated: " The insinuation that you have some kind of insider knowledge is ridiculous. You don't. You have absolutely no idea what any future technology will bring, nor could you understand or explain it even if you did."

I AGREE.  I am not technically oriented.  However,  I attend forums given by technology people and can google the internet.  I consider myself an educated technology INTERESTED consumer not associated with any company.

I happen to enjoy the use of technology and the latest and greatest gadgets and software.  Thus, I can comment and refute technical arguments made from a narrow view with a basis drawn from a wide view of history, technology and future possibliities.

Since I am not trying to promote any product as you are, I keep an independent view of the broadband issue and ATT's great possibilities to allow us to enjoy the coming future.

I also invest in a wide variety of companies and acquire knowledge from their operations as they share it with shareholders.

---

Maru, 

   Ok first of all Joe isn't trying to promote anything. If anyone is coming off like a snake oil salesman right now in this forum it seems to be you. Secondly, Google? Really? that is your source? GOOGLE? You do realize that google just indexes websites right? It provides no veracity to the content that is presented at those sites? That means it might not be true. Lets start with me. 3 years at Sprint Business learning networks on the landline side of things in the business solutions center, 3 Years at LDMI / Cavalier , 2 Years at CMC Telecom locally, 2 years running marketing on sprint cellular. 1 year selling ATT cellular and Uverse a while ago. currently unemployed due to the stellar job market here in michigan and trying to put together my own company. Now that means that I actually TOOK CLASSES as part of my jobs relating to this stuff. I didn't just look it up on google and take there word for it. I am quite sure Joe has one heckuva a resume as well. I know the guys that do ATT winback here in the detroit area, I know the people that run the show at the largest landline providers here in detroit. And I am quite sure Scottmac has one heckuva resume too. Ryan sounds like he sells tech services. I could go on and on... My point is I know you like the service, and you know what that is great. I am glad you don't mind being capped. But the flipside to that is that alot of us who know this industry, smell something wrong here, and that is what we are discussing. Because these caps are a bad idea for you and everyone else. There is no third party to measure the data for ATT, which means OUR interests as consumers are not protected. Again you may trust ATT until the end of time, and that is your RIGHT. However it is our RIGHT to DEMAND that ATT prove that there meters are working using third party verification, or we can leave if we so choose. So I guess my question to  you is this; If you are not an employee of ATT, and you have no stock in ATT, and you are not a lobbyist for ATT, and in fact by your own admission have no vested interest at all in ATT, then why is it so important to you that everyone here stick our heads in the sand and hope that ATT's metering software actually works when we KNOW that they have had an error rate of up to 4700% from other sites?

[jmsherman8]

---

dhascall wrote:

---

mogamer wrote:

---

sirmaru wrote:

---

dhascall wrote:

Cap T-Plus day 3 and still no working meter!  I have to say again, that no official response from AT&T managers is quite appaling.  Yes I understand that this is a P2P forum but there are some mighty upset folk, here.  I do not know if I should be concerned about caps, given my usage pattern but I would expect that they would have 6 months or so worth of data per subscriber available to allieviate fears but NOTHING.

---

If you look several posts above this one there is a link posted to another Forum.  In that Forum one person in Indianopolis, IN, says his ATT bandwidth meter is working fine and another person located in Nashville, TN, says his is working intermitently.

Thus, IN MY OPINION, by the end of next week we will probably all have working ATT bandwith meters available.

Also, I heard Reed Hastings of Netflix speak in a different forum and he said in a few years he will be streaming movies with 8 times the quality of today's HD movies and as I GUESS from his comments bandwidth compression will be a big item then.  Thus, we may be using 1% of today's bandwidth in the near future with TEN TIMES the output.  These new ATT limits will soon be a distant memory of the past.

I am sure new Residential Gateways are in our future sporting higher speeds and higher decompression capabilities.

As I stated earler in this thread the technology developments are going to come from ATT and others fast and furious and we should all just enjoy them and not worry about small fee changes up AND DOWN.

---

WOW! You sir are in full spin mode.

---

Indeed - the issue isn't that some have it, some partially have it and some dpn't but I want to see them to provide some stats before the cap went in to validate this whole 2% junk.  It is just like going to the hosptal and getting a bill without a breakout - just a "trust us" philosophy.  Trust us?  Not me and I actually am a fan of the service.......

---

Yep I am a big prove it guy too to be honest with you. The fact is that the stats are probably from there pretrails 2 years ago. then they did the actual trials in those markets, started losing customers because of this very reason, and shelved the idea until comcast did it. Bear in mind that is all conjecture.

[jmsherman8]

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sirmaru wrote:

---

callmeox wrote:

They must have measured the "representative sample" somehow, or did they resort to the sub discipline of statistics that is better known as making "stuff" up.

Just give us access to our data.

I Google, therefore I smart...thanks for the laugh.

---

BLOL.  I agree with EVERYONE in this thread that ATT's most grievous error in this entire episode was not having their bandwidth measurement site available to everyone of their customers BEFORE they even announced the new policy.

Had they done this, a "statistical" sample would have been unnecessary since the entire population would have had access to their own bandwidth usage data and so would ATT.  If the 98% number of unaffected customers was really true and known before the announcement, this thread would never have started at all.

But if things happened that way, think of all the fun all of us would have missed debating the as yet unknown bandwidth usage we all supposedly use.

---

Actually I believe there most grevious error was ever thinking about capping there users in the first place. They have no need to.

[jmsherman8]

---

Pake1000 wrote:

---

sirmaru wrote:

---

callmeox wrote:

They must have measured the "representative sample" somehow, or did they resort to the sub discipline of statistics that is better known as making "stuff" up.

Just give us access to our data.

I Google, therefore I smart...thanks for the laugh.

---

BLOL.  I agree with EVERYONE in this thread that ATT's most grievous error in this entire episode was not having their bandwidth measurement site available to everyone of their customers BEFORE they even announced the new policy.

If the 98% number of unaffected customers was really true and known before the announcement, this thread would never have started at all.

---

How can you agree with everyone, when many of us believe that AT&T's most grievous (more like greediness) is that act of placing a usage cap to begin with? We don't care about the lack of a meter, we care about being required to have a meter.

And this thread would have started with or without the 98% being true. Broadband usage is going up because of alternatives media services and AT&T has no plans to up the usage cap in the future as it would impact their TV and VoIP services. When everyone has a 150 or 250 Gb usage cap, 5 years from now you will still have at MAX the same cap. If anything, they'll follow the direction of their telco friends up north and steadily decrease the usage cap until streaming services simply can't exist.

---

Yep the users in canada let them get away with this and now everyone is toast. They all complain about it.

[kyaMega]

---

http://www.myusage.att.com/

The U-verse data measurement report is currently under construction. When completed, you will be notified if your usage exceeds the allowance. Until that time, U-verse customers should not be concerned about their usage patterns for billing purposes.

To learn more about how to manage your usage, please visit www.att.com/internet-usage

---

This just makes me LOL.  Capping started 4 days ago.  Time Warner install in 2 days.  Woohoo!

[ryanmercer]

---

sirmaru wrote:

---

dhascall wrote:

Cap T-Plus day 3 and still no working meter!  I have to say again, that no official response from AT&T managers is quite appaling.  Yes I understand that this is a P2P forum but there are some mighty upset folk, here.  I do not know if I should be concerned about caps, given my usage pattern but I would expect that they would have 6 months or so worth of data per subscriber available to allieviate fears but NOTHING.

---

If you look several posts above this one there is a link posted to another Forum.  In that Forum one person in Indianopolis, IN, says his ATT bandwidth meter is working fine and another person located in Nashville, TN, says his is working intermitently.

Thus, IN MY OPINION, by the end of next week we will probably all have working ATT bandwith meters available.

Also, I heard Reed Hastings of Netflix speak in a different forum and he said in a few years he will be streaming movies with 8 times the quality of today's HD movies and as I GUESS from his comments bandwidth compression will be a big item then.  Thus, we may be using 1% of today's bandwidth in the near future with TEN TIMES the output.  These new ATT limits will soon be a distant memory of the past.

I am sure new Residential Gateways are in our future sporting higher speeds and higher decompression capabilities.

As I stated earler in this thread the technology developments are going to come from ATT and others fast and furious and we should all just enjoy them and not worry about small fee changes up AND DOWN.

---

Well I'm in indianapolis. Ast of 6:24 AM 5/6/2011 it's still not working.

[sirmaru]

---

ryanmercer wrote:

Well I'm in indianapolis. Ast of 6:24 AM 5/6/2011 it's still not working.

---

I tried the ATT Bandwidth Measurement Site for my local service area today at 9:17 AM - 6 May 2011 - and got this:

"The U-verse data measurement report is currently under construction. When completed, you will be notified if your usage exceeds the allowance. Until that time, U-verse customers should not be concerned about their usage patterns for billing purposes."

That strongly implies the cap does NOT apply to us at all until we can see our bandwidth usage.  Thus, I'll check it daily and will stop being concerned about my usage until I see my usage data there.

By the way, it appears a lot of folks here are running technology businesses using ATT Uverse.  You MAY have to pay substantially higher fees.  However, that is NOT the concern for most of us since we are not in the same situation.

Some folks here have accused me of being an ATT employee since I am so loyal to their product.  That is not true.  I am not an employee of any company including ATT.  I live by my independent investments and work for no one.  I have no customers and no employees and live quite well, thank you.

For me Technology is a TOY and I would even pay ATT Uverse DOUBLE what I pay now if they offered me more features which I could enjoy.  I really don't care what they charge as long as I an afford it and I can enjoy it.  I am a Technology CONSUMER, not a producter.

The reason I defend ATT Uverse so vigorously is that I ENJOY their products and totally trust their fairness and skills in how they charge me now and into the future.  If I have a problem with their services, I rely totally on their technical support and totally distrust any competing services to test their accuracy.

Folks should not be suprised that on an ATT Product Forum there are quite a few ATT loyaliists who DESPISE competing products.  I have tried competing ISP's and am very unimpressed with their products.  If some like them better, they should post in their forums and leave this one for those who enjoy the products here and just want to know more about them.

3rd party bandwith tools should have their OWN FORUMS where they can be discussed, enjoyed and sold.  A competing product forum is simply the wrong venue for those products and may build hostility to them.

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

---

sirmaru wrote:

Some folks here have accused me of being an ATT employee since I am so loyal to their product.  That is not true.  I am not an employee of any company including ATT.  I live by my independent investments and work for no one.  I have no customers and no employees and live quite well, thank you.

---

So ... you're an armchair theorist who has absolutely no field experience whatsoever.

Well, that pretty much explains everything, doesn't it?

[SomeJoe7777 ACE - Geek]

---

sirmaru wrote:

Folks should not be suprised that on an ATT Product Forum there are quite a few ATT loyaliists who DESPISE competing products.  I have tried competing ISP's and am very unimpressed with their products.  If some like them better, they should post in their forums and leave this one for those who enjoy the products here and just want to know more about them.

3rd party bandwith tools should have their OWN FORUMS where they can be discussed, enjoyed and sold.  A competing product forum is simply the wrong venue for those products and may build hostility to them.

---

Ummm ... I only know of ONE person on this entire forum who meets the definition of an "AT&T loyalist who despises competing products".  You get three guesses as to who that is, and the first two don't count.

This is an open forum for discussion of the AT&T U-Verse product and any and all subjects that go with that.  That includes competing products, 3rd party tools, TV programming, and countless other subjects.  If you don't want discussion, but instead just want propaganda, you're on the wrong web site.  You need to be viewing the company's web site, not the forum.

Again, I have said it before: You believe that your opinion is the only valid one.  The rest of us are personally insulted that you believe not only that our opinions aren't valid like yours apparently are, but that you also believe that our opinions shouldn't even be allowed here.  {Keep it Courteous}

[jmsherman8]

---

SomeJoe7777 wrote:

---

sirmaru wrote:

Some folks here have accused me of being an ATT employee since I am so loyal to their product.  That is not true.  I am not an employee of any company including ATT.  I live by my independent investments and work for no one.  I have no customers and no employees and live quite well, thank you.

---

So ... you're an armchair theorist who has absolutely no field experience whatsoever.

Well, that pretty much explains everything, doesn't it?

---

Bingo!

[jmsherman8]

---

sirmaru wrote:

---

ryanmercer wrote:

Well I'm in indianapolis. Ast of 6:24 AM 5/6/2011 it's still not working.

---

I tried the ATT Bandwidth Measurement Site for my local service area today at 9:17 AM - 6 May 2011 - and got this:

"The U-verse data measurement report is currently under construction. When completed, you will be notified if your usage exceeds the allowance. Until that time, U-verse customers should not be concerned about their usage patterns for billing purposes."

That strongly implies the cap does NOT apply to us at all until we can see our bandwidth usage.  Thus, I'll check it daily and will stop being concerned about my usage until I see my usage data there.

By the way, it appears a lot of folks here are running technology businesses using ATT Uverse.  You MAY have to pay substantially higher fees.  However, that is NOT the concern for most of us since we are not in the same situation.

Some folks here have accused me of being an ATT employee since I am so loyal to their product.  That is not true.  I am not an employee of any company including ATT.  I live by my independent investments and work for no one.  I have no customers and no employees and live quite well, thank you.

For me Technology is a TOY and I would even pay ATT Uverse DOUBLE what I pay now if they offered me more features which I could enjoy.  I really don't care what they charge as long as I an afford it and I can enjoy it.  I am a Technology CONSUMER, not a producter.

The reason I defend ATT Uverse so vigorously is that I ENJOY their products and totally trust their fairness and skills in how they charge me now and into the future.  If I have a problem with their services, I rely totally on their technical support and totally distrust any competing services to test their accuracy.

Folks should not be suprised that on an ATT Product Forum there are quite a few ATT loyaliists who DESPISE competing products.  I have tried competing ISP's and am very unimpressed with their products.  If some like them better, they should post in their forums and leave this one for those who enjoy the products here and just want to know more about them.

3rd party bandwith tools should have their OWN FORUMS where they can be discussed, enjoyed and sold.  A competing product forum is simply the wrong venue for those products and may build hostility to them.

---

Maru,

    And one more time I will say you are entitled to your opinion. However, so is the rest of the forum. Just because we do not blindly follow ATT dogma does not mean that our opinions are any less valid than yours. It just means they are different. I myself resent some of the implications you make in your posts about the other users of this forum. The fact is you are not convincing ANYONE that i have seen here to stay. If anything you are alienating more people and turning them away from ATT right now. But I could be wrong.

[mogamer]

---

sirmaru wrote:

---

ryanmercer wrote:

Well I'm in indianapolis. Ast of 6:24 AM 5/6/2011 it's still not working.

---

I tried the ATT Bandwidth Measurement Site for my local service area today at 9:17 AM - 6 May 2011 - and got this:

"The U-verse data measurement report is currently under construction. When completed, you will be notified if your usage exceeds the allowance. Until that time, U-verse customers should not be concerned about their usage patterns for billing purposes."

That strongly implies the cap does NOT apply to us at all until we can see our bandwidth usage.  Thus, I'll check it daily and will stop being concerned about my usage until I see my usage data there.

By the way, it appears a lot of folks here are running technology businesses using ATT Uverse.  You MAY have to pay substantially higher fees.  However, that is NOT the concern for most of us since we are not in the same situation.

Some folks here have accused me of being an ATT employee since I am so loyal to their product.  That is not true.  I am not an employee of any company including ATT.  I live by my independent investments and work for no one.  I have no customers and no employees and live quite well, thank you.

For me Technology is a TOY and I would even pay ATT Uverse DOUBLE what I pay now if they offered me more features which I could enjoy.  I really don't care what they charge as long as I an afford it and I can enjoy it.  I am a Technology CONSUMER, not a producter.

The reason I defend ATT Uverse so vigorously is that I ENJOY their products and totally trust their fairness and skills in how they charge me now and into the future.  If I have a problem with their services, I rely totally on their technical support and totally distrust any competing services to test their accuracy.

Folks should not be suprised that on an ATT Product Forum there are quite a few ATT loyaliists who DESPISE competing products.  I have tried competing ISP's and am very unimpressed with their products.  If some like them better, they should post in their forums and leave this one for those who enjoy the products here and just want to know more about them.

3rd party bandwith tools should have their OWN FORUMS where they can be discussed, enjoyed and sold.  A competing product forum is simply the wrong venue for those products and may build hostility to them.

---

The kinds of comments you are making are the type i would fully expect to hear from an ATT employee. This is the main reason people suspect that you are tied to ATT. I suspect that known ATT employees aren't posting here because they can't defend the indefensible and would rather not make any comments. I also suspect that you are either a pr person working with or for ATT or are related to one who has convinced you to show your support for this "great" company.

To be quite honest, I really don't get why anyone would be blindly loyal to any company or brand. Companies are quick to take advantage of such blind loyality in a way that isn't beneficial to the customer. I've always "voted with my wallet". That is the only thing a business will understand.

[enamorate]

Re: AT&T To Impose Caps, Overages [ Edited ]
05-06-2011 07:45:49 AM - last edited on 05-06-2011 07:50:55 AM

sirmaru wrote:
ryanmercer wrote:
 
Well I'm in indianapolis. Ast of 6:24 AM 5/6/2011 it's still not working.
 
I tried the ATT Bandwidth Measurement Site for my local service area today at 9:17 AM - 6 May 2011 - and got this:
 
"The U-verse data measurement report is currently under construction. When completed, you will be notified if your usage exceeds the allowance. Until that time, U-verse customers should not be concerned about their usage patterns for billing purposes."
 
That strongly implies the cap does NOT apply to us at all until we can see our bandwidth usage.  Thus, I'll check it daily and will stop being concerned about my usage until I see my usage data there.
 
By the way, it appears a lot of folks here are running technology businesses using ATT Uverse.  You MAY have to pay substantially higher fees.  However, that is NOT the concern for most of us since we are not in the same situation.
 
Some folks here have accused me of being an ATT employee since I am so loyal to their product.  That is not true.  I am not an employee of any company including ATT.  I live by my independent investments and work for no one.  I have no customers and no employees and live quite well, thank you.
 
For me Technology is a TOY and I would even pay ATT Uverse DOUBLE what I pay now if they offered me more features which I could enjoy.  I really don't care what they charge as long as I an afford it and I can enjoy it.  I am a Technology CONSUMER, not a producter.
 
The reason I defend ATT Uverse so vigorously is that I ENJOY their products and totally trust their fairness and skills in how they charge me now and into the future.  If I have a problem with their services, I rely totally on their technical support and totally distrust any competing services to test their accuracy.
 
Folks should not be suprised that on an ATT Product Forum there are quite a few ATT loyaliists who DESPISE competing products.  I have tried competing ISP's and am very unimpressed with their products.  If some like them better, they should post in their forums and leave this one for those who enjoy the products here and just want to know more about them.
 
3rd party bandwith tools should have their OWN FORUMS where they can be discussed, enjoyed and sold.  A competing product forum is simply the wrong venue for those products and may build hostility to them.
 
The kinds of comments you are making are the type i would fully expect to hear from an ATT employee. This is the main reason people suspect that you are tied to ATT. I suspect that known ATT employees aren't posting here because they can't defend the indefensible and would rather not make any comments. I also suspect that you are either a pr person working with or for ATT or are related to one who has convinced you to show your support for this "great" company.
 
To be quite honest, I really don't get why anyone would be blindly loyal to any company or brand. Companies are quick to take advantage of such blind loyality in a way that isn't beneficial to the customer. I've always "voted with my wallet". That is the only thing a business will understand.

I agree!

[bld522]

---

sirmaru wrote:

That strongly implies the cap does NOT apply to us at all until we can see our bandwidth usage.  Thus, I'll check it daily and will stop being concerned about my usage until I see my usage data there.

---

By jove, I think you've got it!

Carry on . . .