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Posted May 23, 2011
2:17:41 AM
Truely Unlimited Data?

I have an iPhone 4 and I am still grandfathered in with my old $30 unlimited data plan.  Well I recently discovered the wonderful apps HBO Go and Hulu Plus, and I have used them quite frequently to watch TV shows and movies on my iPhone recently.  I've never used this much data before and I might actually go over 5 GB usage in a month for the first time ever.  So my question is what the limit on data usage before my account gets flagged for excessive use?  Like is there a softcap on my unlimited data plan?  My iPhone is not jailbroken and I'm not tethering.  Am I in the clear since all my data usage is from Hulu.com via the Hulu Plus app, or should I be expecting a notice from AT&T that I'm subject to some overage charges?

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May 23, 2011 5:53:00 AM
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wingrider01 wrote:

renewedpurpose wrote:

I have an iPhone 4 and I am still grandfathered in with my old $30 unlimited data plan.  Well I recently discovered the wonderful apps HBO Go and Hulu Plus, and I have used them quite frequently to watch TV shows and movies on my iPhone recently.  I've never used this much data before and I might actually go over 5 GB usage in a month for the first time ever.  So my question is what the limit on data usage before my account gets flagged for excessive use?  Like is there a softcap on my unlimited data plan?  My iPhone is not jailbroken and I'm not tethering.  Am I in the clear since all my data usage is from Hulu.com via the Hulu Plus app, or should I be expecting a notice from AT&T that I'm subject to some overage charges?



there is a acceptable use policy in the data plan that spells out what any carrier can do if you repeatably exceed it, this is in every carriers terms -


In that case, OP should be in the clear (assuming he's not also consuming lots and lots of data via unauthorized/unapproved means) since he's using apps officially offered in the iTunes App Store.  I mean, theoretically speaking if someone decides to use the Netflix app to watch movies on his iPhone 24x7...should that be considered "unacceptable" use of the data plan...or is it "unacceptable" only if you do so on an unlimited data plan?  After all, if you were to do so on one of the tiered plans, I'm willing to bet AT&T won't even bat an eye, as long as you pay for the overage...so why would/should it be any different if you were on the unlimited plan?  Data is data, regardless of whether it's being consumed on an unlimited plan or a tiered plan--i.e., should using up say, 10 GB in a month be considered unacceptable use regardless of whether I do so on an unlimited plan or a 2 GB plan?  Then again, maybe someone can point out where in the ToS it says that even on a tiered plan there is a limit of how much data you can use in any given month, regardless of whether you're more than willing to pay for it (overage).

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Truely Unlimited Data?

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May 23, 2011 3:29:39 AM
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renewedpurpose wrote:

I have an iPhone 4 and I am still grandfathered in with my old $30 unlimited data plan.  Well I recently discovered the wonderful apps HBO Go and Hulu Plus, and I have used them quite frequently to watch TV shows and movies on my iPhone recently.  I've never used this much data before and I might actually go over 5 GB usage in a month for the first time ever.  So my question is what the limit on data usage before my account gets flagged for excessive use?  Like is there a softcap on my unlimited data plan?  My iPhone is not jailbroken and I'm not tethering.  Am I in the clear since all my data usage is from Hulu.com via the Hulu Plus app, or should I be expecting a notice from AT&T that I'm subject to some overage charges?



there is a acceptable use policy in the data plan that spells out what any carrier can do if you repeatably exceed it, this is in every carriers terms -

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May 23, 2011 5:48:55 AM
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renewedpurpose wrote:

 

should I be expecting a notice from AT&T that I'm subject to some overage charges?


No, you will not get an overage charge. If you are flagged for excessive use, you will ge a call to discuss your options which would include reducing your usage, or moving to the tiered plan.

 

If there is any way to use wifi to enjoy streaming video from home, you should by all means take advantage of that to reduce needless cellular data usage.

 

The Wireless Customer Agreement is here http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/articles-resources/wireless-terms.jsp

 

The bit concerning data use is here http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/legal/index.jsp?q_termsKey=wirelessCustomerAgreement&...

 

And the catch phrase that can apply to anyone is "AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage"

 

There is no definition of excessive usage in the terms you agreed to, so pretty much they can be anything.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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wingrider01 wrote:

renewedpurpose wrote:

I have an iPhone 4 and I am still grandfathered in with my old $30 unlimited data plan.  Well I recently discovered the wonderful apps HBO Go and Hulu Plus, and I have used them quite frequently to watch TV shows and movies on my iPhone recently.  I've never used this much data before and I might actually go over 5 GB usage in a month for the first time ever.  So my question is what the limit on data usage before my account gets flagged for excessive use?  Like is there a softcap on my unlimited data plan?  My iPhone is not jailbroken and I'm not tethering.  Am I in the clear since all my data usage is from Hulu.com via the Hulu Plus app, or should I be expecting a notice from AT&T that I'm subject to some overage charges?



there is a acceptable use policy in the data plan that spells out what any carrier can do if you repeatably exceed it, this is in every carriers terms -


In that case, OP should be in the clear (assuming he's not also consuming lots and lots of data via unauthorized/unapproved means) since he's using apps officially offered in the iTunes App Store.  I mean, theoretically speaking if someone decides to use the Netflix app to watch movies on his iPhone 24x7...should that be considered "unacceptable" use of the data plan...or is it "unacceptable" only if you do so on an unlimited data plan?  After all, if you were to do so on one of the tiered plans, I'm willing to bet AT&T won't even bat an eye, as long as you pay for the overage...so why would/should it be any different if you were on the unlimited plan?  Data is data, regardless of whether it's being consumed on an unlimited plan or a tiered plan--i.e., should using up say, 10 GB in a month be considered unacceptable use regardless of whether I do so on an unlimited plan or a 2 GB plan?  Then again, maybe someone can point out where in the ToS it says that even on a tiered plan there is a limit of how much data you can use in any given month, regardless of whether you're more than willing to pay for it (overage).

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May 23, 2011 7:58:37 AM
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tonester wrote:

I mean, theoretically speaking if someone decides to use the Netflix app to watch movies on his iPhone 24x7...should that be considered "unacceptable" use of the data plan...or is it "unacceptable" only if you do so on an unlimited data plan? 

Yep. You're probably correct. It's unacceptable to use excessive data on an unlimited plan. This seems to be the direction AT&T is taking based on self-reporting from folks in other forums using a lot of data on unlimited plans for streaming media. Where "a lot" is well above 5GB/mo.

 

If you're paying $55 for your 5GB, or $105 for your 10GB, AT&T will be happy to have you continue to stream video over 3G.

 

$30 for 5-10-20GB? - I would think you're pushing your luck at some point in there. Given 3GB is roughly where you start costing AT&T lost revenue from the average cost of a metered plan, you have to assume 2-3x that (6GB? 9GB?) is really going to show up somewhere on a report... but who knows. There's nothing offical (other than the offical statement that any tethering is going to land you in a tethering plan) about where or how excessive use will be flagged.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Truely Unlimited Data?

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May 23, 2011 9:21:47 AM
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johninsj wrote:

...Given 3GB is roughly where you start costing AT&T lost revenue from the average cost of a metered plan... 


I take issue with that statement.

 

It doesn't "cost" AT&T anything more to provide data over 3gb, especially on an unlimmited plan.

 

Does AT&T not EARN as much money as they could have if the user was on a tiered plan?  Yes. 

 

But "LOST" money?  No, to "LOSE" something AT&T would have to have had it in the first place.  If AT&T never had it in the first place, like the money that's NOT paid by those of us on the unlimmited plan, it's just unearned.

 

Would AT&T like to get rid of all the active unlimmited plans so they can charge for any 'extra' data usage?  I'm sure they would, but that would be more expensive for them in the 'short term' than they currently feel it is worth.

 

So again, is AT&T "losing" money?  No.  You can't lose something you never had in the first place.

Re: Truely Unlimited Data?

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May 23, 2011 11:11:05 AM
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tonester wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

renewedpurpose wrote:

I have an iPhone 4 and I am still grandfathered in with my old $30 unlimited data plan.  Well I recently discovered the wonderful apps HBO Go and Hulu Plus, and I have used them quite frequently to watch TV shows and movies on my iPhone recently.  I've never used this much data before and I might actually go over 5 GB usage in a month for the first time ever.  So my question is what the limit on data usage before my account gets flagged for excessive use?  Like is there a softcap on my unlimited data plan?  My iPhone is not jailbroken and I'm not tethering.  Am I in the clear since all my data usage is from Hulu.com via the Hulu Plus app, or should I be expecting a notice from AT&T that I'm subject to some overage charges?



there is a acceptable use policy in the data plan that spells out what any carrier can do if you repeatably exceed it, this is in every carriers terms -


In that case, OP should be in the clear (assuming he's not also consuming lots and lots of data via unauthorized/unapproved means) since he's using apps officially offered in the iTunes App Store.  I mean, theoretically speaking if someone decides to use the Netflix app to watch movies on his iPhone 24x7...should that be considered "unacceptable" use of the data plan...or is it "unacceptable" only if you do so on an unlimited data plan?  After all, if you were to do so on one of the tiered plans, I'm willing to bet AT&T won't even bat an eye, as long as you pay for the overage...so why would/should it be any different if you were on the unlimited plan?  Data is data, regardless of whether it's being consumed on an unlimited plan or a tiered plan--i.e., should using up say, 10 GB in a month be considered unacceptable use regardless of whether I do so on an unlimited plan or a 2 GB plan?  Then again, maybe someone can point out where in the ToS it says that even on a tiered plan there is a limit of how much data you can use in any given month, regardless of whether you're more than willing to pay for it (overage).



It is up to the end user to police their own usage - take t-mobile for example - after 5gb of usage on their "unlimited plan" they throttle the usage to primarily email until the end of the billing cycle, if you equate it to a home based interent provider like charter - they limit you to 250GB a month on their plans, they will send you two warnings, the third they will suspend service for 6 months. Again it is up to the end user to police their own usage.

 

If you are on a tiered plan, they yes ATT will happily charge you for overages - the question was on a grandfathered unlimited plan so your statement about chargin for overages is null and void..

 

Have not seen any carrier put a upper limit on a tiered data plan, the upper limit is how much you as a end user is willing to pay - 50, 100, 300 in overages - what will your check book handle?

 

ATT has taken the stance on tethering with the unlimited plan - it is not allowed, if a end user is tethering without the correct plan in place ATT will send a warning - if it continues then the unlimited plan is removed and a tiered tethering plan is put in place, the grandfathered plan is gone for good.

 

The difference on "unlimited plans" for all carriers is there is a acceptable use policy put forth, the company has the right to terminate, throttle or restrict a unlimited plan if they determine it is causing a detrimental affect on their network, T-mobile, verizon, US Cellular even Cricket has this in place. It is stated in other carriers acceptable use policy what they consider unacceptable use, I am sure that ATT has the point set also

 

Unapproved or unauthorized data usage ATT will take the steps, as far as the app goes - Apple approved the app for use on the iphone, ATT and now verizon will determine if the end users data usage with the app is execessive and take appropriate enforcement steps - it does not matter if the app is approved or not, the carrier does not care.

Re: Truely Unlimited Data?

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May 23, 2011 1:57:51 PM
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DimentoGraven wrote:

johninsj wrote:

...Given 3GB is roughly where you start costing AT&T lost revenue from the average cost of a metered plan... 


I take issue with that statement.

 

It doesn't "cost" AT&T anything more to provide data over 3gb, especially on an unlimited plan.

 

Does AT&T not EARN as much money as they could have if the user was on a tiered plan?  Yes. 

 

But "LOST" money?  No, to "LOSE" something AT&T would have to have had it in the first place.  If AT&T never had it in the first place, like the money that's NOT paid by those of us on the unlimited plan, it's just unearned.

 

Would AT&T like to get rid of all the active unlimited plans so they can charge for any 'extra' data usage?  I'm sure they would, but that would be more expensive for them in the 'short term' than they currently feel it is worth.

 

So again, is AT&T "losing" money?  No.  You can't lose something you never had in the first place.


I don't need to rehash this argument again.

 

However you wish to spin this, do it in your head to get to the point where you view each subscriber as a revenue source. Now, consider each GB of data a unit of $10 of revenue. Now do simple math.

 

If the unlimited user were on a metered plan, their $30 represents $25 for 2GB and then $5 for .5GB. So after 2.5GB, that user isn't generating revenue for consuming a resource that costs money to create, as represented in backhaul, tower capacity, reps manning phones, stores, insurance cost, electricity, whatever.

 

The AUP everyone agrees to includes the text I quoted. That's what every one of us agrees to, unlimited or not.

 

I don't know at what point AT&T classifies usage, on the unlimited plan, as excessive, but I am quite sure that heavy users even without tethering are getting calls, because I've read the posts from non-jailbroken users, doing no tethering, but streaming 10s of GB a month.

 

I'm not arguing about the relative value of data, or if data is free, or who costs what. I really don't care. It is what it is, and "unlimited" data CLEARLY doesn't mean infinite use. At some point, you'll simply get cut off or pushed onto a metered plan, for any number of reasons as outlined in the acceptable use wording I quoted.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 23, 2011 2:34:09 PM
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johninsj wrote:

I don't need to rehash this argument again.

 

However you wish to spin this, do it in your head to get to the point where you view each subscriber as a revenue source. Now, consider each GB of data a unit of $10 of revenue. Now do simple math.

 

If the unlimited user were on a metered plan, their $30 represents $25 for 2GB and then $5 for .5GB. So after 2.5GB, that user isn't generating revenue for consuming a resource that costs money to create, as represented in backhaul, tower capacity, reps manning phones, stores, insurance cost, electricity, whatever.

 

The AUP everyone agrees to includes the text I quoted. That's what every one of us agrees to, unlimited or not.

 

I don't know at what point AT&T classifies usage, on the unlimited plan, as excessive, but I am quite sure that heavy users even without tethering are getting calls, because I've read the posts from non-jailbroken users, doing no tethering, but streaming 10s of GB a month.

 

I'm not arguing about the relative value of data, or if data is free, or who costs what. I really don't care. It is what it is, and "unlimited" data CLEARLY doesn't mean infinite use. At some point, you'll simply get cut off or pushed onto a metered plan, for any number of reasons as outlined in the acceptable use wording I quoted.


Sorry you didn't want to "rehash" this, I'm suprised you responded, if you don't want to discuss this, don't read my post and don't respond.

 

AT&T doesn't 'create' anything to support data customers.  They've built up a network that will support a specific number of simultaneous sessions and support a specific total number of packets per second.

 

With the total capacity of the available net defined, verses a theoretical "optimum" customer base, verses expenses, verses desired net profit, they have defined a pricing model.

 

Originally that pricing model was a single tier, 20/30 bucks per month for unlimmited data.  Unfortunately their customer base grew, and the average usage of a large percentage of their customer base grew and in many of their supported areas, it grew beyond capacity.

 

The only 'costs' involved were when AT&T decided they needed to increase network capacity and invested a portion of their net profits towards that end.

 

Later it was realized they could increase gross profits by moving from a single, unlimmited tier, pricing model to a multi-tier, 'usage' based model.  As each individual customer's usage passed certain thresholds the price point goes up and AT&T charges more money.  Originally AT&T touted this as a 'fix' to their lack of available bandwidth, however, that was a lie.

 

The need to increase the available bandwidth and the costs associated with that investment ate into the original pricing model's net profit potential and AT&T adjusted.

 

Now, on my unlimmited plan, in my area whether I pull 2.5gb or 25gb on my phone, it doesn't "cost" AT&T anything.  Do they not earn as much as they potentially could were I on a tiered plan? Absolutely!  But they're not going to the "packet factory" and 'creating' more packets to "pour" into the network so they can support my usage.

 

If my usage over taxes the network, and causes connectivity issues, lag, or general network unresponsiveness, AT&T STILL gets to charge everyone their base charge.  There is no "cost"...

 

Does my over exuberant cause the existing network to use more electricity?  Actually no, it doesn't, not in any quantifiable way.  A router under load pretty much utilizes the same amount of electricity as a router without load.

 

A tower doesn't cost more because more packets for flowing through it

 

AT&T doesn't spend more man hours because I'm online more, and certainly the AT&T store will never even know whether or not I'm online, and insurance costs?!?!  No.

 

None of that increases until AT&T decides to invest in adding capacity and the base charge of pricing model covers that, and it only cuts into the net profits.

 

AT&T should make up the difference in acquring new customers, not finding devious ways of increasing the charges to its current customers.

 

As mentioned before if you don't want to 'rehash this argument again', don't respond, you're not obligated to and I won't think any less of you, or that "I won" just because you chose not to reply.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 23, 2011 6:30:38 PM
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ACE - Professor

DimentoGraven wrote:

johninsj wrote:

I don't need to rehash this argument again.

 

However you wish to spin this, do it in your head to get to the point where you view each subscriber as a revenue source. Now, consider each GB of data a unit of $10 of revenue. Now do simple math.

 

If the unlimited user were on a metered plan, their $30 represents $25 for 2GB and then $5 for .5GB. So after 2.5GB, that user isn't generating revenue for consuming a resource that costs money to create, as represented in backhaul, tower capacity, reps manning phones, stores, insurance cost, electricity, whatever.

 

The AUP everyone agrees to includes the text I quoted. That's what every one of us agrees to, unlimited or not.

 

I don't know at what point AT&T classifies usage, on the unlimited plan, as excessive, but I am quite sure that heavy users even without tethering are getting calls, because I've read the posts from non-jailbroken users, doing no tethering, but streaming 10s of GB a month.

 

I'm not arguing about the relative value of data, or if data is free, or who costs what. I really don't care. It is what it is, and "unlimited" data CLEARLY doesn't mean infinite use. At some point, you'll simply get cut off or pushed onto a metered plan, for any number of reasons as outlined in the acceptable use wording I quoted.


Sorry you didn't want to "rehash" this, I'm surprised you responded, if you don't want to discuss this, don't read my post and don't respond.

 

As mentioned before if you don't want to 'rehash this argument again', don't respond, you're not obligated to and I won't think any less of you, or that "I won" just because you chose not to reply.


You're not helping the OP, who simply asked at what point of using their unlimited plan would they possibly run into a hidden cap. The AUP is worded such that there is no such thing as truly unlimited usage, and AT&T has demonstrated that the thresholds for excessive use are relatively low.

 

If we can stay on that topic in this thread, it would be totally awesome.

 

The answer is, quite possibly, upwards of 5GB. Most definitely 10GB. For sure 20GB.

 

Translated into netflix viewing, that means roughly 15 hours of SD video, or 5 hours of HD video on the low end in a month is going to be fine. Somewhere north of double that is probably iffy. Four times that, couple months running, I would expect to get contacted for sure.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 24, 2011 8:29:32 AM
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johninsj wrote:

You're not helping the OP, who simply asked at what point of using their unlimited plan would they possibly run into a hidden cap. The AUP is worded such that there is no such thing as truly unlimited usage, and AT&T has demonstrated that the thresholds for excessive use are relatively low.

 

If we can stay on that topic in this thread, it would be totally awesome.

 

The answer is, quite possibly, upwards of 5GB. Most definitely 10GB. For sure 20GB.

 

Translated into netflix viewing, that means roughly 15 hours of SD video, or 5 hours of HD video on the low end in a month is going to be fine. Somewhere north of double that is probably iffy. Four times that, couple months running, I would expect to get contacted for sure.


Like I stated in my post, twice, you didn't have to respond...

 

Anyway, the fact that this is so ildefined so "nebulous" is a problem...

 

Having to use words like "roughly", "somewhere north", "iffy", etc., makes it seem that AT&T can decided, arbitrarily, that just about any usage we unlimmited plan holders may produce during a period violates the AUP.

 

Surely it's more specifically defined than what you're posting here...

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 24, 2011 1:44:04 PM
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ACE - Professor

DimentoGraven wrote:

johninsj wrote:

You're not helping the OP, who simply asked at what point of using their unlimited plan would they possibly run into a hidden cap. The AUP is worded such that there is no such thing as truly unlimited usage, and AT&T has demonstrated that the thresholds for excessive use are relatively low.

 

If we can stay on that topic in this thread, it would be totally awesome.

 

The answer is, quite possibly, upwards of 5GB. Most definitely 10GB. For sure 20GB.

 

Translated into netflix viewing, that means roughly 15 hours of SD video, or 5 hours of HD video on the low end in a month is going to be fine. Somewhere north of double that is probably iffy. Four times that, couple months running, I would expect to get contacted for sure.


Like I stated in my post, twice, you didn't have to respond...

 

Anyway, the fact that this is so ildefined so "nebulous" is a problem...

 

Having to use words like "roughly", "somewhere north", "iffy", etc., makes it seem that AT&T can decided, arbitrarily, that just about any usage we unlimmited plan holders may produce during a period violates the AUP.

 

Surely it's more specifically defined than what you're posting here...


It may be, but I don't work for AT&T. As worded, it is completely up to  AT&T to decide what is abusive use.

 

The part I have bolded is exactly correct - as worded, any use could be deemed abuse. Have your lawyer review the agreement you signed, and they'll verify that contractually you agreed to those terms, just like everyone else does.

 

If you can stay on topic, the OP asked "Truly Unlimited Data" and the answer is "No". There is no way you can use an unlimited amount of data over 3G. If you're on a metered plan, you could pay for a lot of data, but the costs would keep you from spending an infinite amount of money, obviously. On an unlimited plan you'll run into the AUP/Terms of Service limits, whatever they are, at some point.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 24, 2011 2:04:28 PM
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johninsj wrote:

It may be, but I don't work for AT&T. As worded, it is completely up to  AT&T to decide what is abusive use.

 

The part I have bolded is exactly correct - as worded, any use could be deemed abuse. Have your lawyer review the agreement you signed, and they'll verify that contractually you agreed to those terms, just like everyone else does.

 

If you can stay on topic, the OP asked "Truly Unlimited Data" and the answer is "No". There is no way you can use an unlimited amount of data over 3G. If you're on a metered plan, you could pay for a lot of data, but the costs would keep you from spending an infinite amount of money, obviously. On an unlimited plan you'll run into the AUP/Terms of Service limits, whatever they are, at some point.

 


Technically, you're not really helping the OP a whole heck of a lot either.  A response of, "No" with "it's not truly unlimmited, at some nebulous undefined point in your usage, AT&T will decide you have voilated their AUP, and there's no garuntee that what's being determined as acceptable use today will still be acceptable use tomorrow"...

 

Without a defined "tipping point" how do we truly know we've crossed over into that "unacceptable use" category?

 

If I watch streamed video on my smart phone 8 hours a day every day while on an 'unlimmited' plan, how in the current definition is that not acceptable?  From what I recall of the AUP, that's acceptable use.

 


 

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 24, 2011 2:57:51 PM
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ACE - Professor

DimentoGraven wrote:

 

If I watch streamed video on my smart phone 8 hours a day every day while on an 'unlimmited' plan, how in the current definition is that not acceptable?  From what I recall of the AUP, that's acceptable use.
 


If you're tying up a tower for hours on end streaming video, that impacts other users on that tower. Negatively impacting other users is a violation of the AUP.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 25, 2011 9:39:19 AM
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johninsj wrote:

 

If you're tying up a tower for hours on end streaming video, that impacts other users on that tower. Negatively impacting other users is a violation of the AUP.



So, what you're saying is that when my tower gets to capacity with everyone else using tiered plans, and I can't do simple things like retrieve email, because the tower is saturated, then all those other users are also violating AUP too?

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 25, 2011 6:07:32 PM
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ACE - Professor

DimentoGraven wrote:

johninsj wrote:

 

If you're tying up a tower for hours on end streaming video, that impacts other users on that tower. Negatively impacting other users is a violation of the AUP.



So, what you're saying is that when my tower gets to capacity with everyone else using tiered plans, and I can't do simple things like retrieve email, because the tower is saturated, then all those other users are also violating AUP too?


I'm saying if you are a user that is causing disruptions for other users, regardless of your plan, you're in violation of the AUP. One typical way to cause disruption is to create a 30-60 minute running stream of 1-3mbps. Compared to the pure burst traffic of browsing, or email, etc, that 3G is actually designed for, long running high bandwidth streams aren't great for everyone else on that tower.

 

So, just like the simple answer to the OP (remember the OP? Remeber?) was "No" - the simple answer to your question is "Yes".

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 25, 2011 8:45:49 PM
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johninsj wrote:

I'm saying if you are a user that is causing disruptions for other users, regardless of your plan, you're in violation of the AUP. One typical way to cause disruption is to create a 30-60 minute running stream of 1-3mbps. Compared to the pure burst traffic of browsing, or email, etc, that 3G is actually designed for, long running high bandwidth streams aren't great for everyone else on that tower.

 

So, just like the simple answer to the OP (remember the OP? Remeber?) was "No" - the simple answer to your question is "Yes".

 

 


What's your kick on no drifting from the OP's post?  My gosh you know these threads wind and weave and go on all sorts of tangents.  I haven't noticed you being such a stickler in other posts...  What gives?

 

Anyway, so your saying that even a person on tiered plan will get a notification from AT&T if they burn through 15gb of data?

 

Because I'm betting the ONLY people getting notifications and tossed off their data plans will be the unlimmited folks, who will use their phones pretty much exactly how everyone else will be using theirs, and since tethering and mobile hotspot features don't figure into the unlimmited plan usage profile any more, there really should be no REAL reason (other than greed) that AT&T should bother us for using our phones.

 

After all, the person on the top tier, with mobile hotspot, tethering his laptop and 4 friends definitely has the potential of pounding out more kbps than me streaming a video for the same duration of time, but apparently only I will receive notification of a violation of AUP according to how you're attempting to define AT&T's nebulous definition.

 

So with that in mind, there actually IS unlimmited data, up until the point that AT&T decides they want you to pay more and switches you over.

 

That's my party line from this point forward until a more definitive AUP is presented to me.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 26, 2011 6:33:01 AM
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ACE - Professor

DimentoGraven wrote:
What's your kick on no drifting from the OP's post?  My gosh you know these threads wind and weave and go on all sorts of tangents.  I haven't noticed you being such a stickler in other posts...  What gives?


Because you have an axe to grind on the unlimited plan and you grind it anytime anyone asks anything with "unlimited plan" in it, and that derails the thread into a rehash of your arguments, which I said up front I didn't want to do.

 

So you've managed to restate again your position in THIS thread, which doesn't help the OP in the least. We know your position, you've stated it quite frequently.

 

How does that help the OP? Does it help him not get pushed off the unlimited plan?

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 26, 2011 1:43:07 PM
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wingrider01--do you know exactly what AT&T means/meant by "acceptable use", in regards to data usage under the unlimited plan?  Is it explicitly hashed out in numbers in the ToS--i.e., if you go over 10 GB you will be flagged for violating the acceptable use part of the ToS...or is it one of those subjective definitions that only AT&T can choose to come up with at their own discretion without even having to tell the subscriber as to what exactly defines "acceptable use"?  If we're talking strictly volume of data consumed, then I'd love for you (or anyone else for that matter) try to argue strictly from a logical standpoint as to whether there is a difference in "acceptable use" in using say, 10 GB on an unlimited plan vs. using 10 GB on a tiered plan.  I mean--if I use 10 GB on an unlimted plan, it could be construed as using excessive data...but if I use 10 GB on a tiered plan, it's not excessive use of data?

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 27, 2011 3:21:49 AM
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tonester wrote:

wingrider01--do you know exactly what AT&T means/meant by "acceptable use", in regards to data usage under the unlimited plan?  Is it explicitly hashed out in numbers in the ToS--i.e., if you go over 10 GB you will be flagged for violating the acceptable use part of the ToS...or is it one of those subjective definitions that only AT&T can choose to come up with at their own discretion without even having to tell the subscriber as to what exactly defines "acceptable use"?  If we're talking strictly volume of data consumed, then I'd love for you (or anyone else for that matter) try to argue strictly from a logical standpoint as to whether there is a difference in "acceptable use" in using say, 10 GB on an unlimited plan vs. using 10 GB on a tiered plan.  I mean--if I use 10 GB on an unlimted plan, it could be construed as using excessive data...but if I use 10 GB on a tiered plan, it's not excessive use of data?

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...


No I don't know what they consider acceptable use. More then likely it is documented in the service terms on att or you can request it from their legal - never felt the need to do it.

 

As far as your comment - about over use, if any carrier determines that the acceptable use policy is being violated then yes, the excessive use should be handled. If an unlimited user is determined to be violating the acceptable use policy the carrier has the right to determine how to handle - primarily right now other carriers are either  by soft capping the account by locking data usage to email only, allowing all protocol's but throttle the band width to 1/10 of the actual speed or actual hard capping of the account until the next billing cycle.

 

ATT took the step with people that where tethering on a plan that does not allow it by sending a cease and desist letter to the user - if they did not comply their unlimited plan was terminated and they where put on the correct plan.

 

So yes - use what you want - pay for what you use

 


 

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 27, 2011 6:25:14 AM
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ACE - Professor

tonester wrote:

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...


I didn't insinuate that - it's my belief that even a metered billing sub would, if identified as a significant issue impacting others, get notified. It does no good to AT&T to get a few hundred bucks off one sub which degrades a tower (for example) month after month, for all the other users on that tower.

 

But as I said, the wording is ambiguous, and applies to everyone. The *likelihood* is that the costs associated with even using 10GB/mo are sufficiently high on the metered plan as to dissuade most subscribers from consuming it, month after month, while an unlimited user would feel free to do so - which might be viewed as abuse or cause ongoing tower performance issues - but that's all conjecture.

 

Legally, we all agree to allow AT&T to define abuse as they see fit, and we're bound by whatever they decide.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 27, 2011 7:15:17 AM
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wingrider01 wrote:

tonester wrote:

wingrider01--do you know exactly what AT&T means/meant by "acceptable use", in regards to data usage under the unlimited plan?  Is it explicitly hashed out in numbers in the ToS--i.e., if you go over 10 GB you will be flagged for violating the acceptable use part of the ToS...or is it one of those subjective definitions that only AT&T can choose to come up with at their own discretion without even having to tell the subscriber as to what exactly defines "acceptable use"?  If we're talking strictly volume of data consumed, then I'd love for you (or anyone else for that matter) try to argue strictly from a logical standpoint as to whether there is a difference in "acceptable use" in using say, 10 GB on an unlimited plan vs. using 10 GB on a tiered plan.  I mean--if I use 10 GB on an unlimted plan, it could be construed as using excessive data...but if I use 10 GB on a tiered plan, it's not excessive use of data?

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...


No I don't know what they consider acceptable use. More then likely it is documented in the service terms on att or you can request it from their legal - never felt the need to do it.

 

As far as your comment - about over use, if any carrier determines that the acceptable use policy is being violated then yes, the excessive use should be handled. If an unlimited user is determined to be violating the acceptable use policy the carrier has the right to determine how to handle - primarily right now other carriers are either  by soft capping the account by locking data usage to email only, allowing all protocol's but throttle the band width to 1/10 of the actual speed or actual hard capping of the account until the next billing cycle.

 

ATT took the step with people that where tethering on a plan that does not allow it by sending a cease and desist letter to the user - if they did not comply their unlimited plan was terminated and they where put on the correct plan.

 

So yes - use what you want - pay for what you use

 


 


A) I know you're using tethering as an example of how it may be possible to "overuse" data, but you do know it's not the only method for which lots of data can be consumed;

 

B) Interesting how you keep referring to "unlimited users" when mentioning about being determined for violating the acceptable use policy--is it not possible for someone on a tiered plan to violate it as well?

 

Yes I realize that the majority of folks who are on tiered plans aren't looking to use more than what's allotted to them, but let's be real for a moment--what percentage of users who are on unlimited plans do you think would be considered "guilty" of using way too much data?  I'm willing to bet it's a fairly small percentage; now these users may be using a greater percentage of the total amount of data used by all folks, but IMHO their impact on the overall network health isn't as severe as AT&T makes it out to be...especially when you can find dozens--if not hundreds--of anecdotal posts from users who claim that they get excellent data throughput on their smartphones.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 27, 2011 7:28:58 AM
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johninsj wrote:

tonester wrote:

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...


I didn't insinuate that - it's my belief that even a metered billing sub would, if identified as a significant issue impacting others, get notified. It does no good to AT&T to get a few hundred bucks off one sub which degrades a tower (for example) month after month, for all the other users on that tower.

 

But as I said, the wording is ambiguous, and applies to everyone. The *likelihood* is that the costs associated with even using 10GB/mo are sufficiently high on the metered plan as to dissuade most subscribers from consuming it, month after month, while an unlimited user would feel free to do so - which might be viewed as abuse or cause ongoing tower performance issues - but that's all conjecture.

 

Legally, we all agree to allow AT&T to define abuse as they see fit, and we're bound by whatever they decide.


LOL--an unlimited user using so much data so as to possibly cause tower performance issues?  I never would have guessed it, given all the pro-AT&T comments about how their network is the "fastest-this" and the "best-that"...combined with all them posts from users about how they NEVER have any connectivity and/or throughput issues with pulling data on their smartphones.

 

Yes for an unlimited data plan user it's easy not to be dissuaded from using lots of data but to be fair, they pay more per month than the majority of those users on tiered plans ($30 vs. $25)...so the somewhat-rhetorical question that may be asked is this--how much data would be considered a fair amount (i.e., without anyone questioning as to whether the amount used would be considered "abuse") for someone on an unlimited plan?

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 27, 2011 12:50:00 PM
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ACE - Professor

 


tonester wrote:

johninsj wrote:

tonester wrote:

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...


I didn't insinuate that - it's my belief that even a metered billing sub would, if identified as a significant issue impacting others, get notified. It does no good to AT&T to get a few hundred bucks off one sub which degrades a tower (for example) month after month, for all the other users on that tower.

 

But as I said, the wording is ambiguous, and applies to everyone. The *likelihood* is that the costs associated with even using 10GB/mo are sufficiently high on the metered plan as to dissuade most subscribers from consuming it, month after month, while an unlimited user would feel free to do so - which might be viewed as abuse or cause ongoing tower performance issues - but that's all conjecture.

 

Legally, we all agree to allow AT&T to define abuse as they see fit, and we're bound by whatever they decide.


LOL--an unlimited user using so much data so as to possibly cause tower performance issues?  I never would have guessed it, given all the pro-AT&T comments about how their network is the "fastest-this" and the "best-that"...combined with all them posts from users about how they NEVER have any connectivity and/or throughput issues with pulling data on their smartphones.

 

Yes for an unlimited data plan user it's easy not to be dissuaded from using lots of data but to be fair, they pay more per month than the majority of those users on tiered plans ($30 vs. $25)...so the somewhat-rhetorical question that may be asked is this--how much data would be considered a fair amount (i.e., without anyone questioning as to whether the amount used would be considered "abuse") for someone on an unlimited plan?


Do you have any idea how 3G cellular data works? You could service tens or hundreds of thousands of data requests in the same slot as one user consumes streaming video for an hour. Towers aren't magical fountians of bandwidth nor do they have infinite capacity for simultanious access.
The $5 extra over the 2GB/$25 plan would be .5GB extra, based on the $10/GB pricing for the metered plan.
If you use, on average, 2.5GB/mo on "unlimited" then you're coming in exactly the same as the $25 plan. If you're using LESS than 2.5GB on average, you're wasting money.
The $25 plan essentially covers an additional 6GB/yr overage (exactly .5GB/mo average overage) for EXACTLY the same cost to a subscriber as the $30 plan.
I have no idea what a fair amount is, I don't work for AT&T, nor do I know anything about what they consider fair. Externally the two plans are identical cost to the subscriber at 2.5GB/mo average use. Is twice that "fair"? 3x? 10x? Beats me.

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 27, 2011 3:55:22 PM
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tonester wrote:

wingrider01 wrote:

tonester wrote:

wingrider01--do you know exactly what AT&T means/meant by "acceptable use", in regards to data usage under the unlimited plan?  Is it explicitly hashed out in numbers in the ToS--i.e., if you go over 10 GB you will be flagged for violating the acceptable use part of the ToS...or is it one of those subjective definitions that only AT&T can choose to come up with at their own discretion without even having to tell the subscriber as to what exactly defines "acceptable use"?  If we're talking strictly volume of data consumed, then I'd love for you (or anyone else for that matter) try to argue strictly from a logical standpoint as to whether there is a difference in "acceptable use" in using say, 10 GB on an unlimited plan vs. using 10 GB on a tiered plan.  I mean--if I use 10 GB on an unlimted plan, it could be construed as using excessive data...but if I use 10 GB on a tiered plan, it's not excessive use of data?

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...


No I don't know what they consider acceptable use. More then likely it is documented in the service terms on att or you can request it from their legal - never felt the need to do it.

 

As far as your comment - about over use, if any carrier determines that the acceptable use policy is being violated then yes, the excessive use should be handled. If an unlimited user is determined to be violating the acceptable use policy the carrier has the right to determine how to handle - primarily right now other carriers are either  by soft capping the account by locking data usage to email only, allowing all protocol's but throttle the band width to 1/10 of the actual speed or actual hard capping of the account until the next billing cycle.

 

ATT took the step with people that where tethering on a plan that does not allow it by sending a cease and desist letter to the user - if they did not comply their unlimited plan was terminated and they where put on the correct plan.

 

So yes - use what you want - pay for what you use

 


 


A) I know you're using tethering as an example of how it may be possible to "overuse" data, but you do know it's not the only method for which lots of data can be consumed;

 

B) Interesting how you keep referring to "unlimited users" when mentioning about being determined for violating the acceptable use policy--is it not possible for someone on a tiered plan to violate it as well?

 

Yes I realize that the majority of folks who are on tiered plans aren't looking to use more than what's allotted to them, but let's be real for a moment--what percentage of users who are on unlimited plans do you think would be considered "guilty" of using way too much data?  I'm willing to bet it's a fairly small percentage; now these users may be using a greater percentage of the total amount of data used by all folks, but IMHO their impact on the overall network health isn't as severe as AT&T makes it out to be...especially when you can find dozens--if not hundreds--of anecdotal posts from users who claim that they get excellent data throughput on their smartphones.



well aware of the simple fact that other things can cause excesive use - there was a thread here about someone streaming blue tooth audio to the car that got the warning letter, suspect that carriers are going into a hard lock enforcement mode - the wailing, gnashing of teeth and screaming of how unfair, what big thieves mobile carriers are will reverberate through out the internet at that point. If it already occuring on the carriers that are enforcing their soft cap and hard cap policies on "unlimited data" users

Re: Truly Unlimited Data?

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May 30, 2011 7:54:20 AM
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johninsj wrote:

 


tonester wrote:

johninsj wrote:

tonester wrote:

 

So basically folks (perhaps like yourself) are trying to insinuate that it's okay to use tons of data...as long as you pay the appropriate dollar amount for doing so...but use the same amount on an unlimited plan and you're essentially flagged as being an excessive user.

 

Wow...


I didn't insinuate that - it's my belief that even a metered billing sub would, if identified as a significant issue impacting others, get notified. It does no good to AT&T to get a few hundred bucks off one sub which degrades a tower (for example) month after month, for all the other users on that tower.

 

But as I said, the wording is ambiguous, and applies to everyone. The *likelihood* is that the costs associated with even using 10GB/mo are sufficiently high on the metered plan as to dissuade most subscribers from consuming it, month after month, while an unlimited user would feel free to do so - which might be viewed as abuse or cause ongoing tower performance issues - but that's all conjecture.

 

Legally, we all agree to allow AT&T to define abuse as they see fit, and we're bound by whatever they decide.


LOL--an unlimited user using so much data so as to possibly cause tower performance issues?  I never would have guessed it, given all the pro-AT&T comments about how their network is the "fastest-this" and the "best-that"...combined with all them posts from users about how they NEVER have any connectivity and/or throughput issues with pulling data on their smartphones.

 

Yes for an unlimited data plan user it's easy not to be dissuaded from using lots of data but to be fair, they pay more per month than the majority of those users on tiered plans ($30 vs. $25)...so the somewhat-rhetorical question that may be asked is this--how much data would be considered a fair amount (i.e., without anyone questioning as to whether the amount used would be considered "abuse") for someone on an unlimited plan?


Do you have any idea how 3G cellular data works? You could service tens or hundreds of thousands of data requests in the same slot as one user consumes streaming video for an hour. Towers aren't magical fountians of bandwidth nor do they have infinite capacity for simultanious access.

 


Yes, I realize that towers can only support so many connections at a given time; my point was that whenever someone complains about their data service being slow, etc....maybe they should be given a little slack for their complaints instead of having to read replies from the AT&T fanboys insinuating that what they're experiencing (poor 3G service) can't possible be true.  Then again--some of these folks who continue to tout about how great their 3G service is (heck, in fact I think may even belong in that group--I can't recall coming across a single post of yours where you commented on how 3G service on your phone was less than exemplary) wouldn't really know if what you said about towers is indeed valid in the real world.

 

I also don't quite get the point you're trying to make when you mentioned about how thousands of data requests can be served in the same slot that someone consumes by streaming video (for an hour); should people not stream video because by doing so they're taking away thousands of data requests that can otherwise be used by other folks?  Sheesh, give me a break--I didn't realize users were expected to be considerate towards other folks' data access when choosing to stream video  It's not their fault that Apple allows apps that are capable of allowing video to be streamed over 3G; last I checked, it wasn't explicitly against the ToS to stream a 1-hour Netflix video (or any type of video, for that matter) over 3G...

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May 31, 2011 2:22:15 PM
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And that leads us back to my point earlier:

 

Namely that because "excessive usage" is so ambiguously defined, so nebulously explained when it comes to non-infraction usage (any type of usage not explicitly defined as verbotten such as tethering without a tethering plan) it in effect is impossible to know if/when you're exceeding the AUP or ToS with AT&T.

 

Net effect:  It's truly unlimmited data until AT&T decides whatever you're doing isn't to their liking and notifies you.

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May 31, 2011 7:22:28 PM
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ACE - Professor

DimentoGraven wrote:

And that leads us back to my point earlier:

 

Namely that because "excessive usage" is so ambiguously defined, so nebulously explained when it comes to non-infraction usage (any type of usage not explicitly defined as verbotten such as tethering without a tethering plan) it in effect is impossible to know if/when you're exceeding the AUP or ToS with AT&T.

 

Net effect:  It's truly unlimmited data until AT&T decides whatever you're doing isn't to their liking and notifies you.


No. Net effect: we are all bound by the terms of the contracts we sign. Even if we don't like them, don't understand them, or don't bother to read them before we sign up for service.

 

Did you have a nice memorial day break?

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Jun 1, 2011 8:06:12 AM
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johninsj wrote:

 

No. Net effect: we are all bound by the terms of the contracts we sign. Even if we don't like them, don't understand them, or don't bother to read them before we sign up for service.

 

Did you have a nice memorial day break?


You're stating this, I assume, under the theory of the vague AUP term of, what was it...  something like, '...usage that doesn't interfere with other customers...'  is the basis of this response.  So as long as whatever we're doing can't be linked to any issues other users are having, we're ok, right?

 

So that unfortunately sets up a situation where a person in a 'low usage' cell can stream 24 hours a day every day on his 'unlimmited' plan as, in his 'low usage' cell, no other users will be affected and therefore be in compliance with the AUP, where a person in a 'high usage' cell would be considered to be violating AUP if he streamed just one hour a day on his 'unlimmited' plan.

 

So what we're saying is that whether or not I can even be in compliance with AT&T's poorly defined AUP and ToS is based on AT&T's ability to provide service to me and other customers in my area, and based on AT&T's opinion of what I'm doing at the time.

 

If I'm wrong point me to the specifics in the AUP or ToS that show it.

 

Another interesting thing to me in all this is the following scenario:  A theoretical person who's on a teired plan and decides to ALSO stream video/music 24x7, happily paying the huge bill he would generate.  Let's say you have a tiered plan user and an 'unlimmited' plan user both doing this on a 'high usage' tower.  Are both users subject to the SAME ildefined AUP and ToS?

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Jun 1, 2011 3:52:19 PM
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DimentoGraven wrote:

johninsj wrote:

 

No. Net effect: we are all bound by the terms of the contracts we sign. Even if we don't like them, don't understand them, or don't bother to read them before we sign up for service.

 

Did you have a nice memorial day break?


You're stating this, I assume, under the theory of the vague AUP term of, what was it...  something like, '...usage that doesn't interfere with other customers...'  is the basis of this response.  So as long as whatever we're doing can't be linked to any issues other users are having, we're ok, right?

 

So that unfortunately sets up a situation where a person in a 'low usage' cell can stream 24 hours a day every day on his 'unlimmited' plan as, in his 'low usage' cell, no other users will be affected and therefore be in compliance with the AUP, where a person in a 'high usage' cell would be considered to be violating AUP if he streamed just one hour a day on his 'unlimmited' plan.

 

So what we're saying is that whether or not I can even be in compliance with AT&T's poorly defined AUP and ToS is based on AT&T's ability to provide service to me and other customers in my area, and based on AT&T's opinion of what I'm doing at the time.

 

If I'm wrong point me to the specifics in the AUP or ToS that show it.

 

Another interesting thing to me in all this is the following scenario:  A theoretical person who's on a teired plan and decides to ALSO stream video/music 24x7, happily paying the huge bill he would generate.  Let's say you have a tiered plan user and an 'unlimmited' plan user both doing this on a 'high usage' tower.  Are both users subject to the SAME ildefined AUP and ToS?


I think I already know what the reply is going to be based on--namely, if you do whatever AT&T decides in their own way is not in their own best interests, they're gonna call you on it.  Doesn't matter if you're on an unlimited data plan or a tiered plan, and/or whether you use 1 GB or 10 GB--if they don't like how you're using the data, they're gonna let you know about it.  Too bad they feel that they're not obligated to spell out in the ToS exactly what it is they prefer that you not do...

 

The bottom line that folks like johninsj are insinuating is this--no matter how ill-defined the ToS is...since you agreed to it, you have to abide by it.

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