Won't ATT even try to compete with Verizon on the international front - Unlock the sims!

[mark0805]

Verizon and Sprint both offer unlocked sim cards for the new iPhone 4s and yet ATT is sticking with the antiquated practice of locking our sim cards, forcing us to illegally unlock them when we travel at an expense to us!

Before I found this out, ATT was a slam dunk for me.  I was going to go on Friday and buy an iPhone 4s without a blink, but now that I know I can get an iPhone I don't NEED to jailbreak each time I want to travel, I'm very tempted to switch.  That fact alone might overcome the slower data speeds I would likely encounter.

Is there any way to petition ATT to unlock our sims to compete with Verizon and Sprint?

[dww0311]

What is the big attraction with being able to pop a SIM into the phone in say, Europe? The prepaid SIMs offer expensive rates, you can't use your home number while they are installed in the phone and you still have to give everyone the new number to use while you're traveling. Meanwhile, you miss all calls that people make to your home number.

Just buy a prepaid local cell and refill it when you travel. FAR easier and cheaper.

[aristizzle]

No not possible.

[archermoo]

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dww0311 wrote:

What is the big attraction with being able to pop a SIM into the phone in say, Europe? The prepaid SIMs offer expensive rates, you can't use your home number while they are installed in the phone and you still have to give everyone the new number to use while you're traveling. Meanwhile, you miss all calls that people make to your home number.

Just buy a prepaid local cell and refill it when you travel. FAR easier and cheaper.

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The big attraction?  Prepaid local sims are cheaper than prepaid local cells.  Which is to say free, as opposed to the prepaid cells which they generally charge you for.  Last time I was in the UK, I took an unlocked GSM phone with me, and put in a prepaid local sim.  The rates are the same as the prepaid cell, but you don't have the extra expense of the handset.

And I'm going to miss all the calls made to my cell anyway, since I turn off the cell radio when I'm overseas.  I'm not interested in paying the substantial AT&T international roaming rates.  And the prepaid plan I used on my UK sim gave me 200 international minutes to use to call the US (or anywhere else internations for that matter) while I was there.

[dww0311]

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archermoo wrote:

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dww0311 wrote:

What is the big attraction with being able to pop a SIM into the phone in say, Europe? The prepaid SIMs offer expensive rates, you can't use your home number while they are installed in the phone and you still have to give everyone the new number to use while you're traveling. Meanwhile, you miss all calls that people make to your home number.

Just buy a prepaid local cell and refill it when you travel. FAR easier and cheaper.

---

The big attraction?  Prepaid local sims are cheaper than prepaid local cells.  Which is to say free, as opposed to the prepaid cells which they generally charge you for.  Last time I was in the UK, I took an unlocked GSM phone with me, and put in a prepaid local sim.  The rates are the same as the prepaid cell, but you don't have the extra expense of the handset.

And I'm going to miss all the calls made to my cell anyway, since I turn off the cell radio when I'm overseas.  I'm not interested in paying the substantial AT&T international roaming rates.  And the prepaid plan I used on my UK sim gave me 200 international minutes to use to call the US (or anywhere else internations for that matter) while I was there.

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Incoming calls are usually free. OUTGOING calls are anything but. Orange's prepaid SIM, for example, charges 20p per minute for ANY outgoing call. Texts are 30p EACH.

[hnzw_rui]

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mark0805 wrote:

Verizon and Sprint both offer unlocked sim cards for the new iPhone 4s and yet ATT is sticking with the antiquated practice of locking our sim cards, forcing us to illegally unlock them when we travel at an expense to us!

Is there any way to petition ATT to unlock our sims to compete with Verizon and Sprint?

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AT&T doesn't lock the SIM cards on postpaid. They lock the phone. AT&T actually unlocks other phones if you ask them if you're already 10 months or so into your contract. The only exception to that rule appears to be the iPhone.

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dww0311 wrote:

What is the big attraction with being able to pop a SIM into the phone in say, Europe? The prepaid SIMs offer expensive rates, you can't use your home number while they are installed in the phone and you still have to give everyone the new number to use while you're traveling. Meanwhile, you miss all calls that people make to your home number.

Just buy a prepaid local cell and refill it when you travel. FAR easier and cheaper.

---

A burn phone probably wouldn't have as many features as the iPhone, though. 

International roaming is expensive. When I went on vacation to Asia, mobile internet only cost me $0.50/hour on prepaid pay per use (bought two 3G USB adapters for $20ea; 1 per laptop). Just before I left, the carriers also introduced a $5/5-day plan. You get unlimited internet within that period but speed was just in the 300Kbps range. It's good enough for checking email and the like, though. Local phone calls cost $0.20/min while text messages cost $0.02/msg. However, there were promos for in-network calls/texts bringing down the cost to $0.075/min and $0.0075/msg. Probably explains why a lot of folks had two phones or dual-SIM phones - one for each network.

[BadBadLeroyBrown ACE - Warrior]

Don't know about Verizon, but Sprint said no to this rumor - http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/12/sprint-denies-report-of-unlocked-micro-sim-in-iphone-4s/

[archermoo]

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dww0311 wrote:

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archermoo wrote:

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dww0311 wrote:

What is the big attraction with being able to pop a SIM into the phone in say, Europe? The prepaid SIMs offer expensive rates, you can't use your home number while they are installed in the phone and you still have to give everyone the new number to use while you're traveling. Meanwhile, you miss all calls that people make to your home number.

Just buy a prepaid local cell and refill it when you travel. FAR easier and cheaper.

---

The big attraction?  Prepaid local sims are cheaper than prepaid local cells.  Which is to say free, as opposed to the prepaid cells which they generally charge you for.  Last time I was in the UK, I took an unlocked GSM phone with me, and put in a prepaid local sim.  The rates are the same as the prepaid cell, but you don't have the extra expense of the handset.

And I'm going to miss all the calls made to my cell anyway, since I turn off the cell radio when I'm overseas.  I'm not interested in paying the substantial AT&T international roaming rates.  And the prepaid plan I used on my UK sim gave me 200 international minutes to use to call the US (or anywhere else internations for that matter) while I was there.

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Incoming calls are usually free. OUTGOING calls are anything but. Orange's prepaid SIM, for example, charges 20p per minute for ANY outgoing call. Texts are 30p EACH.

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Sounds like a crappy plan.  The one I was on was much better.  From O2.  75p for the first 3 minutes of talk time per day, which I'll grant is a bit steep, but 5p/minute for any time after that.  Charged by the second instead of by the minute, and with the 200 international minutes included.  Texts were 12p each.  And as you noted, incoming for both calls and texts are free.  It included data, and while the rate was oddly unclear, it was capped at 1 pound per day.  Didn't really use it much as the old Windows Mobile phone I was using was a bit of a pain to set data up for, and it had been years since I used it.  However it would've been nice to pop that sim in my iPhone.  People already couldn't get in touch with me via my normal phone number, as I had the cell radio turned off.  It would've been nice to be able to have just one device (since I was using the iPhone for everything else it does other than the phone/cell data part) instead of two.

[mus4u]

I can confirm Verizon IS unlocking the iPhone 4s. I called them today to confirm. They will also give you $210 for your ATT iPhone 4. That almost covers the whole early termination fee. The catch is that you have to be a customer for 60-90 days before they will unlock the GSM portion. That's real tempting to jump over to Verizon if ATT wont do anything to unlock ours.

[Frylock]

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dww0311 wrote:

What is the big attraction with being able to pop a SIM into the phone in say, Europe? The prepaid SIMs offer expensive rates, you can't use your home number while they are installed in the phone and you still have to give everyone the new number to use while you're traveling. Meanwhile, you miss all calls that people make to your home number.

Just buy a prepaid local cell and refill it when you travel. FAR easier and cheaper.

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Here's the attraction:

People don't call my cell number.  They call my Google Voice number.  Now yes I know that Google won't let me add an international number to it, but as long as I have a data service I can get my text messages (via push) and my voicemails over the Internet.  Furthermore I can use a Google Voice app to call people via Google Voice and they won't even know I'm out of the country.  (Caller ID works fine.)

With the international-calling Orange mobile plan I can call the US for 10p/minute.  That's MUCH cheaper than what AT&T wants.  The people I'm visiting me don't have to call a US number to reach me.  I can get data service at a reasonable rate. 

With what VZW is doing...I may switch.  It's VERY tempting.

[kenrickw]

I totally agree with you.  I am willing to stay with AT&T but I do need my iPhone to be unlocked for Internation travel.  I don't understand even with long term AT&T customer relationship and willing to sign 2 years contract, why AT&T still have to lock the phone.  Not that the phone will be able to use it with T-Mobile high speed network.  I think it is time for me to jump to Verizon.

[drumn_bass]

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mus4u wrote:
I can confirm Verizon IS unlocking the iPhone 4s. I called them today to confirm. They will also give you $210 for your ATT iPhone 4. That almost covers the whole early termination fee. The catch is that you have to be a customer for 60-90 days before they will unlock the GSM portion. That's real tempting to jump over to Verizon if ATT wont do anything to unlock ours.

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Confirmed huh... well, Good Luck,

[tonester]

I'm just speculating of course, but I would venture to guess that AT&T is no hurry to unlock their locked iPhones simply because after all, it is their most-popular model...meaning, millions and millions of AT&T iPhone users; ostensibly, out of this group of millions of iPhone users there are/will be a fairly high number of AT&T iPhone users who would love to be able to use their iPhones to make/receive calls while in a foreign country.  With that many AT&T iPhone users possibly using their iPhones outside of the U.S., that is a cash cow (albeit a relatively small one) AT&T would be losing out on if they chose to unlock customers' AT&T-locked iPhones, since otherwise users would be forced to pay AT&T's high international rates if they still choose to make/receive calls on their locked iPhones.  If you think my guess is farfetched, then why don't YOU offer a guess as to why AT&T still will not unlock their locked iPhones, even after the customer has long fulfilled his/her 2-year commitment...yet will unlock almost every other locked GSM phone model (dumb or smartphone)--sometimes, with no questions asked?

[hnzw_rui]

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tonester wrote:

I'm just speculating of course, but I would venture to guess that AT&T is no hurry to unlock their locked iPhones simply because after all, it is their most-popular model...meaning, millions and millions of AT&T iPhone users; ostensibly, out of this group of millions of iPhone users there are/will be a fairly high number of AT&T iPhone users who would love to be able to use their iPhones to make/receive calls while in a foreign country.  With that many AT&T iPhone users possibly using their iPhones outside of the U.S., that is a cash cow (albeit a relatively small one) AT&T would be losing out on if they chose to unlock customers' AT&T-locked iPhones, since otherwise users would be forced to pay AT&T's high international rates if they still choose to make/receive calls on their locked iPhones.  If you think my guess is farfetched, then why don't YOU offer a guess as to why AT&T still will not unlock their locked iPhones, even after the customer has long fulfilled his/her 2-year commitment...yet will unlock almost every other locked GSM phone model (dumb or smartphone)--sometimes, with no questions asked?

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Actually, I think it's more a case of those people who bought or were given a used iPhone now having to get service+data plan from AT&T if they want to be able to use it as a phone. Sure, there are a few folks who will unlock or use it on GoPhone (albeit, you'll have to jump through hoops to get it working) but I reckon majority would just sign up for postpaid service with AT&T.

[wingrider01 ACE - Geek]

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drumn_bass wrote:

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mus4u wrote:
I can confirm Verizon IS unlocking the iPhone 4s. I called them today to confirm. They will also give you $210 for your ATT iPhone 4. That almost covers the whole early termination fee. The catch is that you have to be a customer for 60-90 days before they will unlock the GSM portion. That's real tempting to jump over to Verizon if ATT wont do anything to unlock ours.

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Confirmed huh... well, Good Luck,

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Confirmed - maybe, there is anoither post that quotes a verizon spokesperson that they will unlock for international travel only and then goes on to state that they will do it only every 10 months for accounts in good standing. Sounds like there maybe restrictions - maybe a temporary unlock or a unlock only to international carriers

Put a call into my business account sales person at verizon to see if they have any official information on it.

[archermoo]

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tonester wrote:

I'm just speculating of course, but I would venture to guess that AT&T is no hurry to unlock their locked iPhones simply because after all, it is their most-popular model...meaning, millions and millions of AT&T iPhone users; ostensibly, out of this group of millions of iPhone users there are/will be a fairly high number of AT&T iPhone users who would love to be able to use their iPhones to make/receive calls while in a foreign country.  With that many AT&T iPhone users possibly using their iPhones outside of the U.S., that is a cash cow (albeit a relatively small one) AT&T would be losing out on if they chose to unlock customers' AT&T-locked iPhones, since otherwise users would be forced to pay AT&T's high international rates if they still choose to make/receive calls on their locked iPhones.  If you think my guess is farfetched, then why don't YOU offer a guess as to why AT&T still will not unlock their locked iPhones, even after the customer has long fulfilled his/her 2-year commitment...yet will unlock almost every other locked GSM phone model (dumb or smartphone)--sometimes, with no questions asked?

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The main problem with this theory is that as you note they'll unlock pretty much any other phone.  And I'm pretty sure that while they have more iPhones than any other kind of phone on their network, they have more of all of the others combined.  If they were looking to make money off of international calls, it would make more sense to not unlock ANY phone.  My best guess is at this point that it was decided between Apple and AT&T when they hammered out the exclusivity contract that no unlocking of iPhones would be done, and they just haven't seen a compelling reason to reverse that decision yet.  Which is to say corporate inertia at this point.  There is a policy that no iPhones will be unlocked.

It would be cool if they reverse their decision at some point, though it might actually be to our benefit if they didn't for a while.  As this could potentially provide enough drive behind getting legislation requiring that carriers unlock phones once X amount of time in contract has passed.

[tonester]

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archermoo wrote:

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tonester wrote:

I'm just speculating of course, but I would venture to guess that AT&T is no hurry to unlock their locked iPhones simply because after all, it is their most-popular model...meaning, millions and millions of AT&T iPhone users; ostensibly, out of this group of millions of iPhone users there are/will be a fairly high number of AT&T iPhone users who would love to be able to use their iPhones to make/receive calls while in a foreign country.  With that many AT&T iPhone users possibly using their iPhones outside of the U.S., that is a cash cow (albeit a relatively small one) AT&T would be losing out on if they chose to unlock customers' AT&T-locked iPhones, since otherwise users would be forced to pay AT&T's high international rates if they still choose to make/receive calls on their locked iPhones.  If you think my guess is farfetched, then why don't YOU offer a guess as to why AT&T still will not unlock their locked iPhones, even after the customer has long fulfilled his/her 2-year commitment...yet will unlock almost every other locked GSM phone model (dumb or smartphone)--sometimes, with no questions asked?

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The main problem with this theory is that as you note they'll unlock pretty much any other phone.  And I'm pretty sure that while they have more iPhones than any other kind of phone on their network, they have more of all of the others combined.  If they were looking to make money off of international calls, it would make more sense to not unlock ANY phone.

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Perhaps, but I promise you that the gap between the number of active AT&T unlockable non-Apple smart and/or dumbphones and that of active AT&T iPhones is narrowing with each passing month.  As popular and amazing as the iPhone is--if you had to use a phone overseas and you could choose between an iPhone and a dumbphone...which would you rather use?  I seriously doubt that most users who own iPhones would rather prefer to use an unlocked non-iPhone phone in a different country over using their iPhones if somehow AT&T relented and unlocked locked them--let alone go through the trouble of finding/buying an unlocked dumbphone if they don't already own one.   I mean, what--AT&T folks love to use their iPhones while in the U.S., but think them not good enough to use elsewhere?

[hnzw_rui]

Actually, I do use a less expensive phone for travel. I'm too scared my iPhone might get stolen when overseas.

[TerraPhantm]

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tonester wrote:

I'm just speculating of course, but I would venture to guess that AT&T is no hurry to unlock their locked iPhones simply because after all, it is their most-popular model...meaning, millions and millions of AT&T iPhone users; ostensibly, out of this group of millions of iPhone users there are/will be a fairly high number of AT&T iPhone users who would love to be able to use their iPhones to make/receive calls while in a foreign country.  With that many AT&T iPhone users possibly using their iPhones outside of the U.S., that is a cash cow (albeit a relatively small one) AT&T would be losing out on if they chose to unlock customers' AT&T-locked iPhones, since otherwise users would be forced to pay AT&T's high international rates if they still choose to make/receive calls on their locked iPhones.  If you think my guess is farfetched, then why don't YOU offer a guess as to why AT&T still will not unlock their locked iPhones, even after the customer has long fulfilled his/her 2-year commitment...yet will unlock almost every other locked GSM phone model (dumb or smartphone)--sometimes, with no questions asked?

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Even if that is true, what about looking at it from this angle:

The iPhone is no longer exclusive to AT&T. Verizon has much better coverage, and Sprint has unlimited data. Add the ability to use any SIM with those phones, what reason is there to stick with AT&T? Sure AT&T has faster data speeds in theory, but in practice not really. I'm lucky to get 100kbps in NY since hte towers are so overloaded; my friend's Verizon phones on the other hand get 700-1000k. The unlocked GSM side is pretty much the final straw I needed to terminate my 3 iPhone accounts and move over to Verizon. I will wait a little bit since I do suspect a policy change will happen just so they remain competitive. Then again, AT&T has made some terrible business decisions in the past, so maybe they'll just stick to their stubborn ways.

tl;dr - in an effort to earn a little bit of extra money from ridiculous international rates, AT&T is risking the loss of entire accounts to their competitors.

[aristizzle]

Im sure AT&T does not want to give up their ability to service most of the globe with their INTL services. They took a lot of time partnering with the foreign carriers to offer INTL service to most of the globe for their subscribers. Just my thoughts....

[BadBadLeroyBrown ACE - Warrior]

If they do start unlocking iPhones, I suspect they'll start with out-of-contract ones (meaning, 24+ months, not when you're upgrade eligible for a new phone). Unless they see a FLOOD of current customers start canceling and moving to Verizon, I don't expect them to unlock in-contract phones.

[mus4u]

Here's a quoate form VZW.

“It is our standard unlock policy for all Global Phones. You have to have been a customer for 60 days and in good standing (meaning your bill is current) and the phone you want to unlock must be on our network at the time of the request. You call Verizon Wireless before you leave the country and we unlock the SIM. We will honor one unlock every 10 months.” — Brenda Raney, Verizon Wireless Public Relations

[OpenMinde]

Business should be in the process of making money and be greedy. However, AT&T no-unlock policy is irrational greedy. AT&T shall at least let customer unlock after contract expire. I hope customers leave AT&T in exodus to give a wake up call to pointy hair boss of AT&T.

[dwill05]

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OpenMinde wrote:
Business should be in the process of making money and be greedy. However, AT&T no-unlock policy is irrational greedy. AT&T shall at least let customer unlock after contract expire. I hope customers leave AT&T in exodus to give a wake up call to pointy hair boss of AT&T.

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In all the years that AT&T has had the iPhone they have never unlocked them for any reason, including when the contract was over.  Yet, an exodus of people leaving because of this has never happened.  It's unlikely that it will happen now, either.

[rskanth]

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dwill05 wrote:

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OpenMinde wrote:
Business should be in the process of making money and be greedy. However, AT&T no-unlock policy is irrational greedy. AT&T shall at least let customer unlock after contract expire. I hope customers leave AT&T in exodus to give a wake up call to pointy hair boss of AT&T.

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In all the years that AT&T has had the iPhone they have never unlocked them for any reason, including when the contract was over.  Yet, an exodus of people leaving because of this has never happened.  It's unlikely that it will happen now, either.

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Probably because nobody else had Iphones till about an year ago. Now their two major competitors have it.

[wingrider01 ACE - Geek]

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rskanth wrote:

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dwill05 wrote:

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OpenMinde wrote:
Business should be in the process of making money and be greedy. However, AT&T no-unlock policy is irrational greedy. AT&T shall at least let customer unlock after contract expire. I hope customers leave AT&T in exodus to give a wake up call to pointy hair boss of AT&T.

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In all the years that AT&T has had the iPhone they have never unlocked them for any reason, including when the contract was over.  Yet, an exodus of people leaving because of this has never happened.  It's unlikely that it will happen now, either.

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Probably because nobody else had Iphones till about an year ago. Now their two major competitors have it.

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do the research - verizon getting the iphone had little affect on the number of iphones that are on ATT, sorry Sprint is in no way shape or form a "major competitor" look at their financials, their true coverage is minimal at best (think t-mobile and cricket are getting close to beating them in subscribers). The only major competitor in this farce is Verizon. Sprint is barely keeping solvent after the disaster of the Nextel buyout. They are betting the farm on the release of the iphone to pull them out of the financial black hole.

As fasr as cs for sprint - a while back they where in the news heavily because they where terminating customers who called in and complained to much about their account.. (well documented in the 5th estate sites)

[OpenMinde]

There are one factor not existing before: a world phone. Before if you buy into Verizon iPhone, you are locked into tiny CDMA cage. But now, with both SIM unlocked world phone, it can changes. You believe it won't change, others say it will. As matter of facts, last couples of quarters AT&T has much slower subscriber growth than VZ. Little here, little there, before AT&T bosses know, AT&T is another disaster waiting to happen.

[BadBadLeroyBrown ACE - Warrior]

Seriously, dude, get off it. Even when Verizon has unlocked world phones before, they couldn't be used domestically. I have no idea if it would be feasible for AT&T to unlock the GSM portion of the phone, but only for international usage. 

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OpenMinde wrote:
There are one factor not existing before: a world phone. Before if you buy into Verizon iPhone, you are locked into tiny CDMA cage. But now, with both SIM unlocked world phone, it can changes. You believe it won't change, others say it will. As matter of facts, last couples of quarters AT&T has much slower subscriber growth than VZ. Little here, little there, before AT&T bosses know, AT&T is another disaster waiting to happen.

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[OpenMinde]

I don't think you are correct on Verizon iPhone can't be used domestically. BTW, even this is a forum, to tell someone "f*** off" is not a nice thing to say. Hope your parent had taught you good manner while young.