Unlocking the iPhone 4s. [ Edited ]

[the gryphon]

in 2007 there weren't two other carriers willing to unlock WITHOUT PAYING FULL RETAIL. So, no, I won't be going to apple. Ill be taking our two iphone family plan to verizon.

I simply want ATT to consider that the "game" has changed. They aren't the only player, and that if the other carriers offer a better deal, folks will logically choose that deal.

[wingrider01 ACE - Expert]

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the gryphon wrote:

in 2007 there weren't two other carriers willing to unlock WITHOUT PAYING FULL RETAIL. So, no, I won't be going to apple. Ill be taking our two iphone family plan to verizon.

I simply want ATT to consider that the "game" has changed. They aren't the only player, and that if the other carriers offer a better deal, folks will logically choose that deal.

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There still is not - the other two carriers are stating they will unlock GSM for international usage, if you travel in a country that utilizes CDMA - and there are a lot, you will still pay the international rates for the carrier. It also appears that the other companies world phones are weighted to select theri native carrier technology first if it is available - get a lot of charges when I am travling with the GSM carriers "world" phones in countries that have both.

The game has not changed, sorry

[the gryphon]

You're simply being obtuse. Of course their phones will work internationally on HUNDREDS of carriers. ATTs phone will not.

[wingrider01 ACE - Expert]

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the gryphon wrote:
You're simply being obtuse. Of course their phones will work internationally on HUNDREDS of carriers. ATTs phone will not.

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Not worth it, they have no requirement to unlock the phone, if they decide in the future, then so be it. Not being obtuse, being accurate.

[the gryphon]

Not worth it TO YOU, you mean. 

[pamelaz]

Hello everyone, let's remember to stay on topic and keep it nice. Thank you.

[the gryphon]

In the end, I sold my 4S (for a profit). I'll buy unlocked when they drop in a few weeks. I'll be out another 100 bucks.. And will NEVER buy another AT&T phone, nor sign another contract with them. When Verizon iphones can do data/voice at the same time I'll switch. The monthly costs are similar, and I won't have to pay ridiculous roaming rates. I'd rather pay a known fee up front (this time) and then switch to Verizon when the next one appears.  OP: good luck to you as well...

[wingrider01 ACE - Expert]

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the gryphon wrote:

In the end, I sold my 4S (for a profit). I'll buy unlocked when they drop in a few weeks. I'll be out another 100 bucks.. And will NEVER buy another AT&T phone, nor sign another contract with them. When Verizon iphones can do data/voice at the same time I'll switch. The monthly costs are similar, and I won't have to pay ridiculous roaming rates. I'd rather pay a known fee up front (this time) and then switch to Verizon when the next one appears.  OP: good luck to you as well...

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glad you made a profit some person mush have really wanted tthe phone to give you enough money to be able to purchase a unlocked iphone for only 100.00 considering the cheapest is aroudn 650.00 for the 16gb.

As far as data / voice concurrently, don;t hold your breath for a general roll out in the near/distant  future, the CDMA infrastructure needs a majority upgrade and the phones hav to be able to handle the new technology, going to be a few years at best.

[the gryphon]

Yes. AT&T wouldn't move my frien'd upgrade, so he was left with either paying an ETF or paying a chunk of change, so we made a deal.

[rhr1960]

I don't have the patience to research how many countries rely exclusively on CDMA technology but, with the exception of Japan, a GSM phone will work just about anywhere I'd ever want to go. 

Given Verizon's GSM unlock policy and the more generous data plans they've just announced, am having trouble thinking of a reason to stay with AT&T when I upgrade to the 4s.  Well, maybe AT&T's rollover minutes, but that's not going to be enough of a benefit to outweigh Verizon's unlock policy. 

[wingrider01 ACE - Expert]

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rhr1960 wrote:

I don't have the patience to research how many countries rely exclusively on CDMA technology but, with the exception of Japan, a GSM phone will work just about anywhere I'd ever want to go. 

Given Verizon's GSM unlock policy and the more generous data plans they've just announced, am having trouble thinking of a reason to stay with AT&T when I upgrade to the 4s.  Well, maybe AT&T's rollover minutes, but that's not going to be enough of a benefit to outweigh Verizon's unlock policy. 

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yopu might want to review verizons unlock policy onthe iphone a lot closer - it is not what you are hoping for.

[hefe55]

When Sprint or Verizon "unlocks" your iPhone for international travel, be aware it is not a full unlock.   You can only use their international "partner" and the rates are still way more (varies by country) than if you are purchasing a local sim card.  So there isn't much difference between using AT&It's locked iPhone international rate and using your so called "unlocked" Sprint or Verizon  iPhone.

When I travel to Colombia, I pay .15 a minute using a local Comcel sim card, but I use an old piece of crap BB.  I will probably give in and purchase an unlocked iPhone from Apple so I can simply avoid the 2 year service agreement and unlocking nonsense.

[wireless-user]

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hefe55 wrote:

When Sprint or Verizon "unlocks" your iPhone for international travel, be aware it is not a full unlock.   You can only use their international "partner" and the rates are still way more (varies by country) than if you are purchasing a local sim card.

============================================================================

Where did you get this information??

The below is from and e-mail I received from Verizon when asking for clarity on their unlocking policy. it doesn't indicate a Verizon partner.

" Once unlocked, you may insert another wireless carrier's SIM Card (Other SIM Card) into the Global Phone to obtain service from that carrier."

[the gryphon]

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hefe55 wrote:

When Sprint or Verizon "unlocks" your iPhone for international travel, be aware it is not a full unlock.   You can only use their international "partner" and the rates are still way more (varies by country) than if you are purchasing a local sim card.  So there isn't much difference between using AT&It's locked iPhone international rate and using your so called "unlocked" Sprint or Verizon  iPhone.

When I travel to Colombia, I pay .15 a minute using a local Comcel sim card, but I use an old piece of crap BB.  I will probably give in and purchase an unlocked iPhone from Apple so I can simply avoid the 2 year service agreement and unlocking nonsense.

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This is NOT correct information.

[wingrider01 ACE - Expert]

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wireless-user wrote:

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hefe55 wrote:

When Sprint or Verizon "unlocks" your iPhone for international travel, be aware it is not a full unlock.   You can only use their international "partner" and the rates are still way more (varies by country) than if you are purchasing a local sim card.

============================================================================

Where did you get this information??

The below is from and e-mail I received from Verizon when asking for clarity on their unlocking policy. it doesn't indicate a Verizon partner.

" Once unlocked, you may insert another wireless carrier's SIM Card (Other SIM Card) into the Global Phone to obtain service from that carrier."

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per their documentation and numerous 5th estate reporters if you review it.

iPhone 4S devices acquired from Sprint or Verizon will enable users to purchase a micro-SIM card from a carrier in the foreign country they are traveling to and place it inside their handsets, thus avoiding any unwanted charges.

I apologize for the inconvenience and the misinformation you received.  I have forwarded your email for training purposes so the next time you or anyone else calls, they get better information about our Global SIM unlock policy.  The quote you included in your email from me is accurate; we will unlock the SIM for global use as long as the criteria are met. The policy isn’t on our website primarily because CDMA technology doesn’t typically use SIM cards and with the introduction of 4G LTE devices which do use SIM cards (that can’t be unlocked), we felt we would confuse customers.  

When you travel internationally, you need to call Verizon Wireless before you leave the country and request to have international calling added to your account profile and if you want the SIM unlocked, you can request that option at the same time.  Even if you choose to not unlock the SIM, you need to call before you leave the country and add the international calling feature to your phone (there is no charge because this just provides the capability, not a plan).  For global data, you will need to add a data plan.  Keep in mind, that if you choose to purchase a local SIM while out of the country, the SIM brings with it a different phone number so those using your Verizon Wireless number will not be able to reach you directly unless you give them the new phone number.

Here is the link to our Global Services: http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/explore/?page=why-verizon&section=international-services#internat...

Again, please my apologies for the confusion.

Brenda{Personal content removed}
Verizon Wireless
Executive Director
Corporate Communications

[Kerry78]

Lol what's CDMA anyway ?! Anyway whatever it is it wont work Here in the United Kingdom

But the main 5 UK networks
Orange, Vodafone, T-Mobile, 02 and Three
Will unlock ur iPhone for you for a fee of £19.99
Or sometimes free Vodafone unlock free if ur a contract customer if ur a prepay one u pay a charge!

Btw you should of just bought a unlocked iPhone via apple AT&T will never unlock there iPhones been there myself glad I've got a UK 4S on Orange even though I'm paying heaps for it for 6mths it's well worth every penny

[the gryphon]

Btw you should of just bought a unlocked iPhone via apple AT&T will never unlock there iPhones been there myself glad I've got a UK 4S on Orange even though I'm paying heaps for it for 6mths it's well worth every penny

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They only RECENTLY began selling unlocked iphones. It was never an option for Americans.

[Kerry78]

Iol I don't think there is any interest as much in the US for unlocked phones anyway is there there isn't a choice of Mobile providers like there is elsewhere around the world

althought there is the 5 biggys here
theres also others which use the 5 networks
under other names eg Virgin media use (T-Mobile)
and have there own rates, Giff gaff use (o2) plus the food Superstores also have there own aswell lol

i don't know how long Apple have sold Unlocked iPhones here
but at one point the iPhone was only available on 02 as they owned the exclusive rights to it for a few yrs i think with the iPhone 4 the other networks got it too as 02 lost the rights with that one1

btw iPhones do cost us brits alot more my 16GB 4S is £499.99
and thats around the same price as the 64GB for you guys so we are alittle screwed here by VAT

[jazz568]

Ditto. I just bought 3 iphones under AT&T subscription, then I found out that they do not unlock iphone for customers at all. I am cancelling my service now (fortunately, under 30 days). What an arrogant company!!

[BadBadLeroyBrown ACE - Guru]

So the iPhone has been out for 4 1/2 YEARS, this has always been AT&T's policy, it's been discussed at length across news, media, and blog outlets, and you're just finding out about this NOW?

Be advised if you're heading to one of the other iPhone carriers in the US, that their international unlocks won't work here in the States. Those phones have firmware that makes them default to their CDMA radios while in the US.

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jazz568 wrote:
Ditto. I just bought 3 iphones under AT&T subscription, then I found out that they do not unlock iphone for customers at all. I am cancelling my service now (fortunately, under 30 days). What an arrogant company!!

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[guandalf ACE - Professor]

It seems like AT&T is the only US carrier that won't unlock the iPhone so it could accept SIM cards while roaming abroad.

[youngjm ACE - Master]

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guandalf wrote:

It seems like AT&T is the only US carrier that won't unlock the iPhone so it could accept SIM cards while roaming abroad.

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Once ATT unlocks the iPhone, a user could go to t-Mobile or some other smaller regional carrier.  In the case of Verizon or Sprint, their unlock for the SIM will not allow use of a USA based GSM carrier.  Relative to using USA based SIM's, they are all the same, locked to the network the iPHone was purchased for.

[guandalf ACE - Professor]

my post says this policy is for roaming abroad, not for use in the USA

[youngjm ACE - Master]

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guandalf wrote:
my post says this policy is for roaming abroad, not for use in the USA

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Understood except there is no way to unlock a GSM based phone that is only unlocked for international travel. Once a GSM iPHone is unlocked for international use, it is also unlocked for the USA.  The CDMA versions appear to be able to limit the use of the SIM slot to international travel when either locked or unlocked.

[johninsj ACE - Professor]

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guandalf wrote:

It seems like AT&T is the only US carrier that won't unlock the iPhone so it could accept SIM cards while roaming abroad.

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Yep. The other (CDMA) carriers will unlock the GSM side, but only for international carriers (ie, not for AT&T or TMobile/US) since there is NO risk to the user then taking the device to another US carrier. It's still carrier locked to the US carrier. There are very few CDMA networlks outside the US. I suppose you could ask AT&T to unlock the CDMA side of your GSM iPhone4, to achieve parity with VZ and Sprint.

If GSM unlock for international roaming is what you want in an iPhone, you should select one of thpse other carriers.

[graphite07]

why do ppl buy the Iphone knowing its locked to AT&T?  why not buy a UNLOCKED iphone off ebay to avoid this.

[stclair49]

I would be willing to bet that 99% of the people who buy an "unlocked" iphone off Ebay think they "ARE" factory unlocked. They have no idea what a jail break unlock is. They only see the words "unlocked" and jump on it.

 If they took the time to read the whole description, they wouldn't buy the phone.

 Also, a lot of these sales are to buyers outside the US who are trying to beat the exchange rates, as the iphone is a higher price, comparatively, or isn't sold in their country.

Then, after the purchase, they come looking for a solution when they realize the phone won't work on their carrier.

There are no laws or government mandates that require a carrier to "unlock" a phone at the end of a contract. Until such laws are passed, AT&T can choose which phones it will unlock.

[thively]

Or just buy an unlocked one from an Apple store.  Just walk in, ask for a GSM unlocked iPhone, pay $650+, done.

And if they don't do it in-store, then you can get one online:

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone/iphone4s

I'd do it if I was much of a traveler.  But personally paying $450 more for an unlocked doesn't make sense for me since 99% of my use will be domestic on AT&T.  I do have older unlocked GSM phones I can take if I really need to.

But it is worth considering.  If you plan to re-sell your iPhone within a year to get a new one, a factory unlocked phone would likely fetch a better resell value.  It all depends on your situation.

Unfortunatley this is a decission you have to make before you buy that you'll need to travel.

[BadBadLeroyBrown ACE - Guru]

This is the lamest strawman argument....Verizon & Sprint do it, so why doesn't AT&T? The difference here is that Verizon & Sprint are unlocking the UNUSED portion of the cellular radios in their phones, so it's really no skin off their backs.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's impossible to do, since I'm not an Apple iPhone engineer, but I would guess that it would be exceedingly difficult to create a custom firmware for AT&T that would allow the use of only AT&T SIM cards domestically and other carriers' internationally. To boot, it would add another section of code that could conceivably be exploited by hackers seeking an alternative unlock method.

I'm curious to see what happens when these phones start switching to LTE. I wonder if Verizon will be so quick to unlock their phones when they're utilizing the same technology as AT&T. 

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youngjm wrote:

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guandalf wrote:
my post says this policy is for roaming abroad, not for use in the USA

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Understood except there is no way to unlock a GSM based phone that is only unlocked for international travel. Once a GSM iPHone is unlocked for international use, it is also unlocked for the USA.  The CDMA versions appear to be able to limit the use of the SIM slot to international travel when either locked or unlocked.

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[Teddy23P]

I am absolutely livid with AT&T as well over this unlock issue. I have been with AT&T for years (since the bag phones back in the 90's) and I am going to end my contract, make a complaint to the better business bureau and tell as many people as I can to leave AT&T.

I live and work outside of the country in Sub-Saharan Africa but have continued to keep my AT&T contract and plan primarily for my phone number so once I am back in the US on holiday's friends and family can reach me. I have been receiving unlock codes from AT&T for a while. When I purchased the new iPhone I called AT&T and they supposedly gave me an unlock code for the iPhone. I lost it, called again and they gave me another. So, when I landed in Sierra Leone, and tried to unlock it as explained by support it didn't work. Now mind you from here calling even with the international plan is 2.89/minute. I was on the phone with their tech support for almost 2 hours, being treated quite rudely trying to get some help. And got none.

I am stuck in a third world country with a phone I can't use - I don't see 2.89/minute a viable option - and AT&T says there is nothing they can do. That is a lie, they can do something, they are choosing to do nothing. If there support hadn't originally told me that I could unlock the new iPhone (as I have my three previous phones) I would have never spent the money. Now, I am stuck and don't have the option of going to an AT&T store or returning my phone (a ticket to the us is well over 1500 and wouldn't spend that to return a phone). So, here I am stuck and AT&T has nothing to say except, 'I don't know what to tell you.'

I can't believe they can't do anything, even when their agents were the one's who mis-informed me in the first place. That is the unacceptable part.