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Posted May 2, 2013
Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

I been with ATT for over 10 years and every year I see more and more anticonsumer behavior from you... I was planning on purchasing new Galaxy S4 and now I come to find out that it and the other high-end phone, HTC One, both have locked bootloaders!

 

Why are you crippling devices ATT? This is a slap in the face to any loyal customer and high-tech driven people. These phones were meant to be used with maximum cusomization in mind, Sprint and T-Mobile both released theirs totally unmolested.

 

Why are you driving your customers away?

Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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May 2, 2013
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It's just one of those things, unfortunately. I agree that it's inconvenient, and would prefer bootloaders unlocked, but this is what you get for buying a subsidized phone through AT&T.

 

It would be nice if AT&T would allow us more customization in how we use our phones. :smileyhappy:

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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May 2, 2013
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From what I understand, all US versions of the GS4 have locked bootloaders. This is becoming a trend and is yet another reason why my GS3 is the last carrier variant I ever buy.

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May 2, 2013
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I stand corrected. Sprint's version ships with an unlocked boot loader. The bootloader on AT&T's version has already been hacked, so you can still load custom ROMs on it. However, AT&T's contempt for their customers is becoming very worrisome. While I may not necessarily leave AT&T at the end of my contract, I certainly won't be renewing it.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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May 2, 2013
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T-mobile and Sprint both offer S4s with unlocked bootloaders.  I agree that no one should purchase this phone from AT&T while they decide to keep the bootloader locked.  Even people that want to keep their phone stock should be greatly concerned by this because it signals AT&T's power-hungry control as well as their pure disreguard for consumers.

 

 

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May 3, 2013
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Yep. Locked boot loader = no sale.

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May 3, 2013
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HappyBallz wrote:

I been with ATT for over 10 years and every year I see more and more anticonsumer behavior from you... I was planning on purchasing new Galaxy S4 and now I come to find out that it and the other high-end phone, HTC One, both have locked bootloaders!

 

Why are you crippling devices ATT? This is a slap in the face to any loyal customer and high-tech driven people. These phones were meant to be used with maximum cusomization in mind, Sprint and T-Mobile both released theirs totally unmolested.

 

Why are you driving your customers away?


It has been unlocked now!

 

http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/05/01/dan-rosenberg-has-unlocked-att-galaxy-s4s-bootloader-but-we-...

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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May 3, 2013
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PhoneWizard wrote:

It's just one of those things, unfortunately. I agree that it's inconvenient, and would prefer bootloaders unlocked, but this is what you get for buying a subsidized phone through AT&T.

 

It would be nice if AT&T would allow us more customization in how we use our phones. :smileyhappy:


Wouldn't this affect everyone who bought the phone through AT&T, not just the subsidized purchasers? 

 

I'm thinking about what to do in this situation.  Return it and buy it outside of AT&T or just keep it.  I didn't plan to change the kernel on my Galaxy S4 anyway, but it's the principle of the matter that I oppose.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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May 3, 2013
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The unlock method will not be available until the end of the month and even then it can be "patched" by a firmware update from AT&T.  It is the fact that AT&T chose to openly do this that should worry all of AT&T's customers.  It is a clear signal that they think they should control what you do and when you do it even if you clearly own the device (fully paid for).

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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May 14, 2013
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"It's what you get for buying a subsidized phone..." Absolutely not OK. We agree to contracts with AT&T, and Early Termination Fees to protect their subsidy in the phone. SIM locking and bootloader locking are just slaps in the face. I've paid my cellular bill on time since 1997, and they sell me a crippled device?

What would you say if the bank that loaned you money for your car told you you can't put on a roof rack, or tint the windows? What right does AT&T have to lock us out of our own phones? And it doesn't matter if a hack exists - the point is, we shouldn't need one.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Jun 2, 2013
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HAve to agree that it makes no sense for ATT to cripple our phones even if they are subsidized. Either way--you would have to pay an ETF if you decided to leave. ATT obviously wants to keep that phone attached to their network. 

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Jul 30, 2013
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Our 1st bootloader fix has already been killed by Sammy. I will only buy International phones unless this crap is stopped.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 19, 2013
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I would bet on that majority of the people that buy the Galaxy s4 or other phones do not care about locked bootloaders or even flashing custom ROM's. I for one am happy enough with Touchwiz and while i would of liked a unlockd bootloader to try out custom rom's it is not a deal breaker and probably isn't a deal breaker fpr majority of consumers

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Aug 19, 2013
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Closingracer wrote:
I would bet on that majority of the people that buy the Galaxy S4 or other phones do not care about locked bootloaders or even flashing custom ROMs. I for one am happy enough with Touchwiz and while I would have liked a unlocked bootloader to try out custom ROMs it is not a deal breaker and probably isn't a deal breaker for a majority of consumers

While I'm glad that you personally don't feel insulted by AT&T's move, there is a rather large base of people that do, and to deny them is absurd.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

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Aug 20, 2013
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jii wrote:

Closingracer wrote:
I would bet on that majority of the people that buy the Galaxy S4 or other phones do not care about locked bootloaders or even flashing custom ROMs. I for one am happy enough with Touchwiz and while I would have liked a unlocked bootloader to try out custom ROMs it is not a deal breaker and probably isn't a deal breaker for a majority of consumers

While I'm glad that you personally don't feel insulted by AT&T's move, there is a rather large base of people that do, and to deny them is absurd.


AT&T's treatment of Android phones and customers who buy them is most certainly absurd and insulting. Not only does AT&T unreasonably delay software updates, but, by locking bootloaders, it also prevents customers who would rather seek out timely updates elsewhere (i.e., custom ROMs) from installing them. For these reasons, I got rid of my GS3 (sold it for $325 on Feebay) and bought the GS4 Google Edition. My new phone is already running Android 4.3, which it received a week after it was announced. I will never buy another carrier-branded phone.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 21, 2013
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kgbkny wrote:

jii wrote:

Closingracer wrote:
I would bet on that majority of the people that buy the Galaxy S4 or other phones do not care about locked bootloaders or even flashing custom ROMs. I for one am happy enough with Touchwiz and while I would have liked a unlocked bootloader to try out custom ROMs it is not a deal breaker and probably isn't a deal breaker for a majority of consumers

While I'm glad that you personally don't feel insulted by AT&T's move, there is a rather large base of people that do, and to deny them is absurd.


AT&T's treatment of Android phones and customers who buy them is most certainly absurd and insulting. Not only does AT&T unreasonably delay software updates, but, by locking bootloaders, it also prevents customers who would rather seek out timely updates elsewhere (i.e., custom ROMs) from installing them. For these reasons, I got rid of my GS3 (sold it for $325 on Feebay) and bought the GS4 Google Edition. My new phone is already running Android 4.3, which it received a week after it was announced. I will never buy another carrier-branded phone.


while some will state they know why ATT has gone this direction, only those sitting in the large ffices really know. Now having said that, there are always a path to get around a locked bootloader. The forum rules forbid me from explaining how, you can research this on some web sites such as xda developers. 

But, can anyone explain why ATT locking bootloaders is so upsetting to most?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zombie Hunter Mission Statement

Exterminate the living dead and keep our fellow citizens alive and safe. We will be connecting with our fellow businesses, the police department, funeral home, and weapon manufacturers to help map out, and exterminate the pesky living dead from our community.

~~~Seth Mendenhall
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 21, 2013
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Zombiehunter wrote:

 

while some will state they know why ATT has gone this direction, only those sitting in the large ffices really know. Now having said that, there are always a path to get around a locked bootloader. The forum rules forbid me from explaining how, you can research this on some web sites such as xda developers. 

But, can anyone explain why ATT locking bootloaders is so upsetting to most?


There certainly are ways around locked bootloaders. I've been with Android since day one (had my T-Mobile G1 on pre-order) and always liked the freedom that comes with this operating system. By locking bootloaders and blocking timely updates, AT&T has taken that freedom away. If I wanted the manufacturer/carrier to control how I use my own phone, I'd get an iPhone. Again, there's a good reason why I own a Google Edition device.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 21, 2013
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Zombiehunter wrote:
while some will state they know why ATT has gone this direction, only those sitting in the large ffices really know. Now having said that, there are always a path to get around a locked bootloader. The forum rules forbid me from explaining how, you can research this on some web sites such as xda developers. 

But, can anyone explain why ATT locking bootloaders is so upsetting to most?


Being able to rely on an individual (or group of individuals) to discover and release an exploit allowing end-users to circumvent a locked bootloader isn't the point. The point is that end-users shouldn't have to rely on such people, and said individual(s) shouldn't have to waste time cracking locked bootloaders. The whole appeal of Android is its open source / open platform approach to things, and locked bootloaders are a step backwards.

 

To reiterate a statement made earlier, if you went and bought a car only to learn somewhere down the road that your OEM had forbidden you from upgrading your stereo, tinting your windows, changing your wheels/tires, upgrading your suspension, building your engine, etc etc etc, I'm sure the first thing on your mind would be "Well who on earth do you think you are, Mr. OEM? This is MY CAR, NOT YOURS!" Regardless of pricepoint, the same principal applies.

 

If that doesn't get the point across, I don't know what will.

 

 

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 22, 2013
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I don't disagree with it being insulting but while is a large community is still a small minority. I think I read about a year or 2 ago that Apple iPhone that are sold 79% are still sold on AT&T which means a lot more iPhone are on the network. Also there is plenty of people who have android phones who don't need a custom ROM and thus AT&T really won't do anything unless you guys make a ruckus publicly through a news outlet or some way proving if all you guys leave will hurt their bottomline

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Aug 22, 2013
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Additionally, we are a small pixel in their big picture. We geeks are the 1%ers. And as stated by closingracer, ATT still sells most of the iPhone in the US. My wife and daughter both have iPhones and have no interest in jail breaking them, have no interest in crossing over to android either. I've met scores of Android users the get that deer in the headlights look when I start talking about bootloader, side loading apps and rooting.
So, if 99% of your customers that make you Billions are happy with the phone and only 1% want things changed or left the same....who do are you going to listen to....

Just saying
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zombie Hunter Mission Statement

Exterminate the living dead and keep our fellow citizens alive and safe. We will be connecting with our fellow businesses, the police department, funeral home, and weapon manufacturers to help map out, and exterminate the pesky living dead from our community.

~~~Seth Mendenhall
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 22, 2013
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Zombiehunter wrote:
Additionally, we are a small pixel in their big picture. We geeks are the 1%ers. And as stated by closingracer, ATT still sells most of the iPhone in the US. My wife and daughter both have iPhones and have no interest in jail breaking them, have no interest in crossing over to android either. I've met scores of Android users the get that deer in the headlights look when I start talking about bootloader, side loading apps and rooting.
So, if 99% of your customers that make you Billions are happy with the phone and only 1% want things changed or left the same....who do are you going to listen to....

Just saying

I couldn't agree more, which is why I took matters into my own hands. Since I will no longer purchase carrier variants, I no longer have to worry about signing up for another two years to take advantage of subsidized pricing. In another 10 months, I'll be contract-free. I also no longer have to play the update waiting game. Am I going to leave AT&T? Probably not, as their coverage and data speeds are top notch. Will I let them dictate what I can do with my phone and when I will receive updates? Of course I won't.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 22, 2013
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This has been an ongoing debate for many years. I have been hacking phones since the good 'ol Windows Mobile days and all I can say is "thank goodness for XDA!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Prev. devices: SGS, Note 2, SGS3, Galaxy Nexus, T-Mobile, G2x, iPhone4, HTC HD2, HTC Fuze, HTC StarTrek, BB Bold

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 23, 2013
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Closingracer wrote:
I don't disagree with it being insulting but while is a large community is still a small minority. I think I read about a year or 2 ago that Apple iPhone that are sold 79% are still sold on AT&T which means a lot more iPhone are on the network. Also there is plenty of people who have android phones who don't need a custom ROM and thus AT&T really won't do anything unless you guys make a ruckus publicly through a news outlet or some way proving if all you guys leave will hurt their bottomline

You guys? Us guys that go to xda and unlock the bootloader, root, mod, and install  custom roms don't need to go nowhere as long as AT&T allows us to still use our phone on the network. The majority of complaints are from users that got sucked in by the subsidization and then figured out that they don't fully own the phone. I don't think it would be off base to state that a majority of users that have these smartphones wouldn't have them if they had to pay full price for them. I don't gripe, I know where to go and what to do. If you don't want the carrier to control your phone, don't pay their price. Unfortunately, the temptation of the reduced price is the hook. True, for every user that frowns upon a locked bootloader, there are many more that don't care. But of those many that don't care, a majority of those don't even know how to fully use their phone and/or don't know the full capabilities of it. Then there are those capabilities that are disabled by the carrier that users like us guys seek to work around. The OP got it right by stating "DO NOT BUY", however AT&T knows that smartphones are the drug and reduced prices will net them a ton of junkies. Smartphone data plans are the money maker right now. And the new upgrade policy is no different, it puts a smartphones in user's hands today, even when they don't have the money or want to pay in full today. And since the phone is not paid in full, users are not likely to leave anytime soon, as if they are under contract.
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 23, 2013
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If you are on a contract, you don't own your phone. You are leasing/renting to buy at the reduced price. If you miss enough payments, the carrier has every right to repo their equipment. So, if the want to lock the bootloader... See my point? If you buy your phone outright, a carrier doesn't care what you do to your phone, as long as you pay your bill. They won't care what you do to the phone cuz they don't own it. Plus, when you buy you device outright, it's already unlocked.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zombie Hunter Mission Statement

Exterminate the living dead and keep our fellow citizens alive and safe. We will be connecting with our fellow businesses, the police department, funeral home, and weapon manufacturers to help map out, and exterminate the pesky living dead from our community.

~~~Seth Mendenhall
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 23, 2013
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@Zombiehunter:

Could you point me to the section of the contract where it states that contract customers don't own their phones?

As an aside, if you buy a carrier-branded device, it's always locked, whether you buy it outright or subsidized.

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Aug 23, 2013
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kgbkny wrote:
@Zombiehunter:

Could you point me to the section of the contract where it states that contract customers don't own their phones?

As an aside, if you buy a carrier-branded device, it's always locked, whether you buy it outright or subsidized.

 

1.0   TERM COMMITMENT, CHARGES, BILLING AND PAYMENT

1.1   What Is The Term Of My Service? How Can I Fulfill My Service Commitment? What are My Rights to Cancel Service and Terminate My Agreement?

AT&T Wireless Service(s) may be used with: (a) a mobile device that contains a SIM that is assigned to your account (“Device”) and/or, (b) a device that is designed and purchased for use exclusively on AT&T's network (“Equipment”).

Term of Service. Your Agreement begins on the day we activate your Service(s) and continues through the Term of Service, typically a 12 month or 24 month period (“Service Commitment”), specified on your Customer Service Summary. At the end of your service commitment, this Agreement will automatically continue on a month-to-month basis. If your Agreement has no Service Commitment, it is a month-to-month Agreement.

Fulfillment of Service Commitment. You have received certain benefits from us in exchange for your Service Commitment, which may include, but are not limited to, a subsidized wireless device. There are two alternative ways to fulfill your Service Commitment. You can pay for the Services described in your Customer Service Summary for the term of your Service Commitment, or you can terminate your Agreement prior to the end of your Service Commitment and pay an Early Termination Fee (“ETF”). The Early Termination Fee is not a penalty, but rather is an alternative means for you to perform your obligations under the Agreement that partially compensates us for the fact that the Service Commitment on which your rate plan is based was not completed.

Your Termination Rights. Within the first 14 days after service activation, you may terminate your Agreement for any reason and not be required to pay an ETF. If you terminate within three (3) days of accepting the Agreement, AT&T will refund your activation fee, if any. However, you agree to pay AT&T for all fees, charges, and other amounts incurred and owed under your Agreement, and you agree to return to AT&T any Equipment you purchased from AT&T in connection with your Service Commitment. If you fail to return this Equipment, you will be charged the difference between the amount you paid AT&T for the Equipment and the amount you would have been charged for the Equipment had you not agreed to a Service Commitment. AT&T also may charge you a restocking fee for any returned Equipment. Some dealers may impose additional fees.

After the first 14 days, you may terminate your Agreement for any reason. However, you agree to pay AT&T for all fees, charges, and other amounts incurred and owed under your Agreement along with the applicable ETF. The Early Termination Fee is either: (a) $325 minus $10 for each full month of your Service Commitment that you complete; or (b) $150 minus $4 for each full month of your Service Commitment that you complete. To determine whether your Equipment has a $325 Early Termination Fee or a $150 Early Termination Fee, checkatt.com/equipmentETF.

After your Service Commitment ends and you are on a month-to-month Agreement, you may terminate your Agreement at any time with 30 days notice without incurring an ETF. If you sign a new Agreement before the end of the term of your existing Agreement and terminate that new Agreement within 14 days as allowed above, you agree that you will be bound by the terms and conditions of your existing Agreement including fulfillment of any remaining Service Commitment thereunder.

 

From AT&T's legal terms. Ok so it doesn't say directly that you don't own the phone. However, if you obtained the phone at a subsidized price for agreeing to a 2 yr contract and youstop paying or want out of the contract, you must pay an ETF which covers what is stilled owed to them. So I take that as I don't own the phone until the contract has been completed. Read Fulfillment os Service Commitment.

 

Your second statement is true and I failed to include that the phone purchased from its manufacture is unlocked. So, if I was going to buy a phone out right it would not be from any carrier. I would have to make sure that it was either a CDMA or a GSM design depending on the carrier I wanted to use.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zombie Hunter Mission Statement

Exterminate the living dead and keep our fellow citizens alive and safe. We will be connecting with our fellow businesses, the police department, funeral home, and weapon manufacturers to help map out, and exterminate the pesky living dead from our community.

~~~Seth Mendenhall
*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 24, 2013
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Zombiehunter wrote:
From AT&T's legal terms. Ok so it doesn't say directly that you don't own the phone. However, if you obtained the phone at a subsidized price for agreeing to a 2 yr contract and youstop paying or want out of the contract, you must pay an ETF which covers what is stilled owed to them. So I take that as I don't own the phone until the contract has been completed. Read Fulfillment os Service Commitment.

 

Your second statement is true and I failed to include that the phone purchased from its manufacture is unlocked. So, if I was going to buy a phone out right it would not be from any carrier. I would have to make sure that it was either a CDMA or a GSM design depending on the carrier I wanted to use.



This is the way I understand it - in exchange for committing to being their customer for two years, AT&T sells you a deeply discounted device. Despite what they say in the terms of contract, the ETF is indeed a penaly that is levied for ending your contract early. In fact, there are various services, not necessarily wireless, where the provider charges the customer an ETF for ending the contract early, even if no subsidized equipment is provided (certain cable/satellite TV services, for instance). Even the FCC refers to the ETF as a penalty, specifically in reference to wireless service:

 

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/early-termination-fees

 

Once you buy a subsidized device, you OWN it. You're not leasing or financing it - the device is yours from day one. Even if you don't take advantage of a subsidized device while subscribing to one of the postpaid plans for the first time, you will still be under contract and liable the same ETF as you would be if you did.

 

With regards to buying a phone outright, it makes very little sense to buy from the carrier. They will still have full control of the device. In my personal opinion, the Google Editions are worth every penny. Stock Android, prompt updates, no bloatware, LTE compatibility and no carrier meddling.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Aug 24, 2013
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kgbkny wrote:

Zombiehunter wrote:
From AT&T's legal terms. Ok so it doesn't say directly that you don't own the phone. However, if you obtained the phone at a subsidized price for agreeing to a 2 yr contract and youstop paying or want out of the contract, you must pay an ETF which covers what is stilled owed to them. So I take that as I don't own the phone until the contract has been completed. Read Fulfillment os Service Commitment.

 

Your second statement is true and I failed to include that the phone purchased from its manufacture is unlocked. So, if I was going to buy a phone out right it would not be from any carrier. I would have to make sure that it was either a CDMA or a GSM design depending on the carrier I wanted to use.



This is the way I understand it - in exchange for committing to being their customer for two years, AT&T sells you a deeply discounted device. Despite what they say in the terms of contract, the ETF is indeed a penaly that is levied for ending your contract early. In fact, there are various services, not necessarily wireless, where the provider charges the customer an ETF for ending the contract early, even if no subsidized equipment is provided (certain cable/satellite TV services, for instance). Even the FCC refers to the ETF as a penalty, specifically in reference to wireless service:

 

http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/early-termination-fees

 

Once you buy a subsidized device, you OWN it. You're not leasing or financing it - the device is yours from day one. Even if you don't take advantage of a subsidized device while subscribing to one of the postpaid plans for the first time, you will still be under contract and liable the same ETF as you would be if you did.

 

With regards to buying a phone outright, it makes very little sense to buy from the carrier. They will still have full control of the device. In my personal opinion, the Google Editions are worth every penny. Stock Android, prompt updates, no bloatware, LTE compatibility and no carrier meddling.


The FCC doesn't have any legal authority to enforce, enact. or control anything so I do not pay attention to anything they have to say. All they can do is advise the House and Congress. If the ETF was indeed a penality then it would have been challenged well before now in court because AT&T has had this in their legal contracts for a very long time.

When you enter into a contract, you agree to behave in compliancce with the terms of that contract. If you decide to end the contract, the company issuing that contract has the right to be compensated for what was provided to you as part of that contract.

 

Fulfillment of Service Commitment. You have received certain benefits from us in exchange for your Service Commitment, which may include, but are not limited to, a subsidized wireless device. There are two alternative ways to fulfill your Service Commitment. You can pay for the Services described in your Customer Service Summary for the term of your Service Commitment, or you can terminate your Agreement prior to the end of your Service Commitment and pay an Early Termination Fee (“ETF”). The Early Termination Fee is not a penalty, but rather is an alternative means for you to perform your obligations under the Agreement that partially compensates us for the fact that the Service Commitment on which your rate plan is based was not completed.

 

Your Termination Rights. Second paragraph

After the first 14 days, you may terminate your Agreement for any reason. However, you agree to pay AT&T for all fees, charges, and other amounts incurred and owed under your Agreement along with the applicable ETF.

 

So, I still read this as not "owning" the device until the contract has ended, one way or the other.

 

 

With regard to your statement of buying the phone outright. Who will still have full control of the device, the carrier? The manufacturer? Nope. You are buying it full price from the manufacturer, it will be unlocked. That's how they are constructed. The carriers require the phones to be locked thru their ordering instructions to the manufacturer.

 

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Zombie Hunter Mission Statement

Exterminate the living dead and keep our fellow citizens alive and safe. We will be connecting with our fellow businesses, the police department, funeral home, and weapon manufacturers to help map out, and exterminate the pesky living dead from our community.

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*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Zombiehunter wrote:
With regard to your statement of buying the phone outright. Who will still have full control of the device, the carrier? The manufacturer? Nope. You are buying it full price from the manufacturer, it will be unlocked. That's how they are constructed. The carriers require the phones to be locked thru their ordering instructions to the manufacturer.

 


That is only if you specifically buy a carrier unlocked device without going through a carrier. Anyone can go to an AT&T store and pay full price for any phone they wish to walk away with, but that device will come with a locked bootloader (as well as the SIM lock).

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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Zombiehunter wrote:

 

Fulfillment of Service Commitment. You have received certain benefits from us in exchange for your Service Commitment, which may include, but are not limited to, a subsidized wireless device. There are two alternative ways to fulfill your Service Commitment. You can pay for the Services described in your Customer Service Summary for the term of your Service Commitment, or you can terminate your Agreement prior to the end of your Service Commitment and pay an Early Termination Fee (“ETF”). The Early Termination Fee is not a penalty, but rather is an alternative means for you to perform your obligations under the Agreement that partially compensates us for the fact that the Service Commitment on which your rate plan is based was not completed.

 

Your Termination Rights. Second paragraph

After the first 14 days, you may terminate your Agreement for any reason. However, you agree to pay AT&T for all fees, charges, and other amounts incurred and owed under your Agreement along with the applicable ETF.

 

So, I still read this as not "owning" the device until the contract has ended, one way or the other.

 

 

With regard to your statement of buying the phone outright. Who will still have full control of the device, the carrier? The manufacturer? Nope. You are buying it full price from the manufacturer, it will be unlocked. That's how they are constructed. The carriers require the phones to be locked thru their ordering instructions to the manufacturer.

 


Two things that rebut the notion of not owning the device prior to fulfilling the contract: 1) I have about 10 months left on my contract and just sold my AT&T-branded Galaxy S3 on eBay. Based on your suggestion, I sold an item that I don't own. Does that mean that AT&T can press criminal charges against me, as well as eBay for facilitating the sale? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. 2) Based on your statement, we own the phone only after fulfilling the contract. As such, shouldn't our monthly payments decrease?

The point is that it doesn't say ANYWHERE in the contract that the subscriber doesn't own the phone until the contract is fulfilled. The legal definition of an early termination fee is a penalty for exiting the contract before the agreed-upon term expires. T-Mobile has already been taken to court over this earlier this year. Here's a good example of not owning something - if you fail to make monthly payments on your car loan, the bank will repossess the car. Do you honestly think AT&T will attempt to repossess my phone if I don't pay my bill for a couple of months?

Re: Locked bootloader on Galaxy S4...DO NOT BUY IT!

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